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Bedbug
= Cult of Ray =

953 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2018 :  10:27:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why would you buy vinyl records in 2018?

Why would you buy a reissued vinyl record of Doolittle instead of finding an original?

How do you find room to store all these giant albums in your apartment?

Why is vinyl everywhere in 2018?

Is this like when I see a kid listening to a Walkman or playing original Gameboy? Just being novel / ironic?

Please explain to an old grouch who doesnít get it.

pot
> Teenager of the Year <

United Kingdom
2567 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2018 :  10:44:41  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I once passed off a copy of Doolittle in 1993 in a £1 vinyl clearout sale. My mate found it and offered it to me, but I let him have it.

Didn't matter anyway because I pawned my vinyl collection a few years ago, after losing a band hand at poker.

One less box of shit to carry around. I miss some of those records, but what is the point in owning them if I never played them or even had a record player to play them on?

I reckon it's a myth that vinyl sounds better. How can it be better than modern digital technology? Because of the scratches and hisses you hear at the start? Speakers are more important maybe?

It's the same argument that was presented recently about Gibson guitars. They don't really sound any better than a cheap copy played through a nice expensive amp.

I remember dreaming about being able to carry all my albums about with me and my Sanyo cassette walkman. Now we have that, why the fuck would we need any more plastic? There's also an environmental issue.




Edited by - pot on 06/21/2018 10:47:18
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Bedbug
= Cult of Ray =

953 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2018 :  08:50:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have still yet to see any physical form of Head Carrier with my own eyes; no vinyl, no tape, no cd.

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danjersey
* Dog in the Sand *

USA
2455 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2018 :  16:47:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's about spending time. I don't have a set up for spinning records, no cabinets on my wood floor, no levels to adjust, wish I did. "Time.... if he could travel time...." but alas, I'm a modern man.
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Discoking
= Cult of Ray =

Belgium
786 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2018 :  23:23:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i have head carrier on different colours of vinyl: black, pink, green.


it's educational
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Sam
= Cult of Ray =

Ireland
493 Posts

Posted - 07/04/2018 :  22:47:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug

Why would you buy vinyl records in 2018?

How do you find room to store all these giant albums in your apartment?





Because MP3s and MP4 files are so damn tinny and weak sounding.
No depth, no levels, just a horribly thinned out version of a beautiful production reduced to a 3mb file with very little distinction between instrumentation.

Listening to good vinyl vs lossy files is no comparison.
As for storage, aluminum alphabetized flight cases.
Also I like to make sure that the artil has full recompense for the work they have produced and CDs are shitty and files are lossy and weak sounding.

PS Vinyl is everywhere because Vinyl sounds better and its a richer experience.

PPS Check your ears for waxy deposits.

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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

United Kingdom
2567 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2018 :  00:54:17  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sam

quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug

Why would you buy vinyl records in 2018?

How do you find room to store all these giant albums in your apartment?





Because MP3s and MP4 files are so damn tinny and weak sounding.
No depth, no levels, just a horribly thinned out version of a beautiful production reduced to a 3mb file with very little distinction between instrumentation.

Listening to good vinyl vs lossy files is no comparison.
As for storage, aluminum alphabetized flight cases.
Also I like to make sure that the artil has full recompense for the work they have produced and CDs are shitty and files are lossy and weak sounding.

PS Vinyl is everywhere because Vinyl sounds better and its a richer experience.

PPS Check your ears for waxy deposits.





Some mp3s sound terrible, but it depends on the bitrate. 320kbps or Lossless FLAC produces a pretty decent sound to my ears, through good speakers. I don't see how modern high quality digital encoding isn't as good as, or better than analog vinyl?

The only difference that I can tell is digital is perfectly clean and doesn't produce any of the crackles and hisses that vinyl lovers seem to be so nostalgic about.

I challenge your hypothesis and propose that the "nothing is better than vinyl" mantra is nothing more than a myth derived from a nostalgic attachment people have to the format.
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Sam
= Cult of Ray =

Ireland
493 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2018 :  02:52:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pot

quote:
Originally posted by Sam

quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug

Why would you buy vinyl records in 2018?

How do you find room to store all these giant albums in your apartment?





Because MP3s and MP4 files are so damn tinny and weak sounding.
No depth, no levels, just a horribly thinned out version of a beautiful production reduced to a 3mb file with very little distinction between instrumentation.

Listening to good vinyl vs lossy files is no comparison.
As for storage, aluminum alphabetized flight cases.
Also I like to make sure that the artil has full recompense for the work they have produced and CDs are shitty and files are lossy and weak sounding.

PS Vinyl is everywhere because Vinyl sounds better and its a richer experience.

PPS Check your ears for waxy deposits.





Some mp3s sound terrible, but it depends on the bitrate. 320kbps or Lossless FLAC produces a pretty decent sound to my ears, through good speakers. I don't see how modern high quality digital encoding isn't as good as, or better than analog vinyl?

The only difference that I can tell is digital is perfectly clean and doesn't produce any of the crackles and hisses that vinyl lovers seem to be so nostalgic about.

I challenge your hypothesis and propose that the "nothing is better than vinyl" mantra is nothing more than a myth derived from a nostalgic attachment people have to the format.



Well lossless FLAC will be perfect because as the name suggests none of the normal file compression is applied.

Its horses for courses and whatever you are having yourself really.
Personally for me Vinyl is a fantastic and there's nothing hipster or trendy about it. Simply personal enjoyment of music.
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

United Kingdom
2567 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2018 :  03:08:22  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Nothing wrong with vinyl, apart from the environmental issues. It's a lovely format, just not practical for my purposes these days: that of being a music glutton and living in a small house and wanting to listen to anything in my collection on a whim, anywhere I am when I am away from the house.

My main argument though is based on the question: from a physics/sound engineering point of view, how much information about the music recorded can be printed onto an analogue vinyl plate compared to a more or less unlimited number of binary digits on a computer?
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Sam
= Cult of Ray =

Ireland
493 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2018 :  03:40:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pot



My main argument though is based on the question: from a physics/sound engineering point of view, how much information about the music recorded can be printed onto an analogue vinyl plate compared to a more or less unlimited number of binary digits on a computer?



Yeh i'll agree its cumbersome and takes storage but I only collect my very favourite artists, so a lot of incidental stuff i'll happily listen to on mp3 when travelling etc.
The vinyl comes out for house parties and drinks with friends where the richness can be really appreciated.
When it comes to % of high and low end frequencies lost via compression, I cant give you that and amn't really a science buff so that doesn't hold a huge amount of interest for me.
I know what I hear though and I love music, and the feeling you get is just much more satisfying. That dopamine sponge is fully squeezed when listening to vinyl, with mp3 its just not as satisfying. There are tonnnes of articles on the loudness wars, vinyl versus digital etc.

I think FBF must have similar opinions about analogue vs digital, considering a lot of the Catholics output was purely live to 2 track.
I wish he would record that way with the Pixies now.
Some of the best Pixies recorded material to my ears is their work on the peel sessions and BBC recordings in Maida Vale.


Edited by - Sam on 07/05/2018 03:43:33
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1448 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2018 :  04:22:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Vinyl became technically outdated the day the first CD was shipped.

I think vinyl enthousiasts probably like the warmth of the vinyl sound, the nice packagings, and the awkward charm of the little ceremony that goes along.

I personaly like the sound of the vinyl, but it definitely doesn't sound as good as FLACs or even Spotify in high quality mode. I just stream everything from my IPad to a cheap chinese FX-AUDIO D802C amp that drives my old Celestion 66 british speakers. It has the warmth of the vinyl sound (thanks to the speaker heavy bass response) and the transparency of those little digital amplifiers. Pretty nice combo. But I keep my turntable for style. It's a cute little Pro-ject Debut manual turntable. Pro-ject makes some nice turntables.

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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

United Kingdom
2567 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2018 :  04:36:34  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm sure you could pretty accurately 99.9% reformat the sound of a vinyl record exactly onto digital format, but you couldn't necessarilly do it the other way round?
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1448 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2018 :  07:41:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nope. LP sound reproduction has many flaws related to the technology involved. First the mechanical aspect of the reading process ("wow" and "flutter" problems if i remember correctly). Then the way LP records amust be equalized during the recording process (bass needs to be reduced and treble needs to be boosted to avoid problems with the record grooves) and then the opposite equalization is done by the phono preamp of your amplifier at playback. I'm no expert, but I think you probably lose something in the sound in the process.

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johnnyribcage
= Cult of Ray =

USA
781 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2018 :  10:15:29  Show Profile  Visit johnnyribcage's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I love vinyl. I have since the first time I played a record, probably at 5 or 6. I started building the collection probably when i was around 14, in 1994-95. Asking for records for birthdays/ Christmas, buying with allowance then with pay from my first job. Just always really loved the aesthetic, the mechanical aspect of it - itís just cool.

I have somewhere around 1300-1400 albums and box sets, probably another 300 45s. The bulk were bought before things got too crazy with the current market. Youíll never catch me dead at a Record Store Day. It has gotten a little out of hand, but at the same time, itís handy for folks like me that always wanted certain albums that are just way too rare and expensive, that are now being repressed.

I listen to vinyl probably 60-70% of the time. In many cases it sounds better, in that it is far more open and dynamic sounding, richer, etc. my system is also kind of optimized for it, so thereís that. I also have a really great CD player that, depending on the CD vs the vinyl in question, matches or surpasses the vinyl. Lossless files sound great on the computer headphones relative to streaming or other files, but if I run them from the computer to the stereo, they donít hold up to vinyl or CD. Again, this is because I have a pretty fantastic turntable and stylus, and a good CD player, both of which smoke the puny little sound hardware in my macbook.

At the end of the day, I canít sit here and lay out some blanket statement that vinyl always trumps digital. It doesnít, and thatís silly. Now, as long as itís not beat up, vinyl will almost always beat lossy file, easily, It gets a lot more situational when weíre talking CD, FLAC, etc. personally, I just love records. Same reason someone would tool around in a Ď72 Trans Am vs a new Mustang, is it as fast, efficient, comfortable, safe, or practical? No, objectively not. To a certain type of person though, is it cooler, more stylish, and more fun? Yeah, no doubt.

And Iím definitely not a hipster.


Take me to the vineyards of Lavaux
Want to see the mountains where the waters flow
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

United Kingdom
2567 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2018 :  10:13:10  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm not sure what "wow" and "flutter" are in the context of just sound apart from the words or crowds and birds. Heard of those terms before. Is it not maybe the case that people are in love with (as well as the nice size of a 12" sleeve and record) the sound that music makes when it's recorded onto vinyl, as opposed to the sound of music through vinyl if you know what I mean?

I guess sound engineering, like all branches of engineering have their subtle tricks of the trade, unconventional ways of making things sound good or translating sound or just mediums or energy from one thing into the other. You can't record anything without changing it in some way

If that's the case then I think vinyl should be reclassifed as an instrument. Oops sorry, of course it already has because hip hip, you know what I'm saying, play the disc and don't think too much about it. Be grateful for Moore's law.

Edited by - pot on 07/10/2018 11:00:33
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johnnyribcage
= Cult of Ray =

USA
781 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2018 :  15:19:11  Show Profile  Visit johnnyribcage's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pot

I'm not sure what "wow" and "flutter" are in the context of just sound apart from the words or crowds and birds. Heard of those terms before. Is it not maybe the case that people are in love with (as well as the nice size of a 12" sleeve and record) the sound that music makes when it's recorded onto vinyl, as opposed to the sound of music through vinyl if you know what I mean?



Wow and Flutter are basically artifacts of tape. Probably most music you like recorded before the mid 90s has it inherent in the original recording. Itís part of what makes it sound good. A lot of recordings add it digitally on purpose now just to get that sound. Itís more of a tape phenomenon though. Vinyl just captures it as the tape produced it naturally in the studio. CD does the same. If it was originally recorded on tape, itís there.


Take me to the vineyards of Lavaux
Want to see the mountains where the waters flow

Edited by - johnnyribcage on 07/10/2018 15:33:20
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

United Kingdom
2567 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2018 :  18:38:56  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
give me an example that illustrates each if you can
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johnnyribcage
= Cult of Ray =

USA
781 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2018 :  22:06:44  Show Profile  Visit johnnyribcage's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pot

give me an example that illustrates each if you can



Just look it up pot! Google is your friend. There is enough on this subject floating around on the internet to choke even the most crazed audiophile. There is no way I could explain it to you better than what is readily available.
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

United Kingdom
2567 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2018 :  08:13:03  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
lol ok. Fair enough. This is what Mr Audio has to say about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS34GN4UHpQ
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Bedbug
= Cult of Ray =

953 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2018 :  08:16:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight (but who does have Dog in the Sand), I just want to thank all participants for the education on this.

I remain unmoved, and maybe that's a lesson in and of itself.
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <

United Kingdom
2567 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2018 :  08:20:55  Show Profile  Visit pot's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Speaking of which (dog in the sand) I just noticed that I've been promoted to Teenager of the Year! Wooooo... bring on the dancing girls.
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1448 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2018 :  10:08:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage
Wow and Flutter are basically artifacts of tape. Probably most music you like recorded before the mid 90s has it inherent in the original recording. Itís part of what makes it sound good.

Yep that was my point. Most people like amps/speakers/medias often because of sound artifacts that makes them sound "good" (as opposed to "hi-fi"). That's why I love my old british speakers. Warthm. Heavy bass. Comfy kind of sound. (event if I still prefer using Spofity premium in high resolution because I have all the music I want at the tip of my finger).

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