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TarTar
* Dog in the Sand *
1965 Posts |
 Posted - 09/14/2004 : 12:18:07
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Okay, there's gotta be some recording buff here who can hear the difference between a direct guitar and a miked guitar. What is it about the sound that is different and why is it such an issue? Just wondering.
Inna zany combination of Wayne's Pet Youngin'!
[EDIT - Moved] |
Edited by - Cult_Of_Frank on 09/14/2004 12:43:43 |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2004 : 14:08:44
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well, i have no shitting idea. i know why i mic the amp if i'm doing a "proper" recording" - because i don't have a distortion or any other effects pedal, so i have to use my amps stuff.
apart from that i guess it's because amps make up a good part of what a guitar sounds like... really nice ones can make a guitar sound really nice and warm or whatever, some just shitty. i guess this must mean that a guitar on its own doesn't define its sound, and plugging it in direct might lose some of the tonal quality you thought it had when using an amp. |
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1594 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2004 : 12:06:28
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I'm not a recording buff but I can tell you what to listen for.
Firstly, I take it you've never played through a good tube amp. I would try to get to a vintage guitar store like Elderly Instruments or to the Michigan Guitar Show and ask to turn up a Super Reverb or something similar. Don't be afraid to turn it past 6 or 7.
That would take care of the question.
I was jamming with a Blues band a few years back who had some really spectacular equipment, a full PA with lots of power amps and crossovers. They insisted they DI my amp with some crappy thing they were to plug into the external speaker jack. They spent forty-five minutes on it and couldn’t get it to work, I said to just mic it with an SM-57. They were quite impressed.
The easy way these days is something like a POD or SansAmp. I have a little toy called a Boss VF-1 that would be ok, I guess. With the Boss I find part of the same problem as plugging a guitar directly into a board, unexpected emphasis on pick noise. This may be due to improper use.
Miking an amp is also prone to misuse, it is part technique and part science. On stage with the Super the best results are to mic one speaker in the centre about an inch from the grill. I suppose every amplifier is different, you need to figure out which microphone, how far off-centre, and the distance. I think I remember that the more off-centre the more treble, less powerful the sound and the further back the deeper and less powerful the sound.
I played a show at a little café with a knowledgeable soundman. We really wanted a recording from the board, but the band was queuing on the guitar. This became a problem because the soundman wanted the amplifier (which only sounded good at one volume) turned down so that where he miked it would work for the recording (and live sound). I suggested he move the mic away from the amplifier and I didn’t understand why he insisted it had to be close. It was a no win situation in the end.
I was at a (nice) studio where my friend’s Reggae band did a demo. I caught a look at the technique they used for the guitar. Most studios have many amplifiers ‘in stock’, and most recording engineers have a favourite amp. Here they had his favourite turned up way loud in a medium sized room, in fact the guitarist was in the booth with the engineer to save his hearing. They had an expensive microphone setup at ear-level about where you would expect the guitarist to be standing. The amplifier was just off the centre of, and about three feet from the wall.
This sounded extremely good, on the master tapes anyways. Whoever mixed it was moronic, it went from a vibrant sparkling hit record to a dull cheap demo.
I’ve owned a Mesa-Boogie V-Twin pedal that had a headphone/mixing board jack. I can’t find the exact reference but it said the ‘speaker simulator’ was a low-pass filter. This is true of speakers used in guitar amps, the frequency range is 75hz to about 2000hz (3db).
Please note an amplifier, especially true of tubes, is a large compression machine.
As far as simulators go, I know one of the originators of tube amplifier design and he has an often imitated product, it’s a preset on the Johnson simulator. He says it is very well done, very close but not quite! My considered opinion is that it will be possible, it can be done, it hasn’t been done yet and it’s still worth the money to get the right equipment.
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Edited by - hammerhands on 09/16/2004 01:27:39 |
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1594 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2004 : 01:37:03
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One other thing about miking is natural reverb. I guess studios generally have a wet room and a dry room, you can't duplicate it properly without something expensive like a plate reverb.
I guess you may be talking acoustic guitar, I didn't consider that! I have never heard a good sounding piezo-electric. |
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hec
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
39 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 13:55:52
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its a matter of opinion i think because an instrument is DI'd to take away interference(it uses a balanced cable to send signal to recording system) of coarse this doesnt allow for natural reverb,amp settings etc. these things can be added through EQ and outboard equipment or programs...even when you mic a guitar it needs to placed in the right way to produce reverb because if it is right next to the amp the sound doesnt have the time to bounce around the room to give the reverb,another mic has to be used a few foot away from the amp or acoustic guitar.
So i think its a matter of preference and how much work your willing to put in
..hec |
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Hatchetman
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
234 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2004 : 08:07:01
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I usually DI the bass amp when recording, (or sometimes I use an AKG D112 kick drum/bass cab mic). But when it comes to recording guitar amps, I always mic them using SM57s or SM58s. I think it sounds more natural that way.
A tip if recording in a studio: If and when possible, it’s best to record an amp ‘dry’ i.e. without any reverb (even if the song you are playing requires reverb) as you can add reverb later AND more importantly EQ the actual reverb itself.
Ade
As the air conditioner hummed.... |
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theonecontender
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
565 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2004 : 21:44:52
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Sir Mike
- FB Fan -
USA
88 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2004 : 23:03:24
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I prefer my Fender amp to my POD 2.0. Direct in digital just hasn't landed the true sound of the amps they're trying to duplicate yet. That said, they're getting better at it.
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Do you ever really know who you are? |
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Topic |
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Direct guitar vs. miking the amp
