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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
 Posted - 08/14/2004 : 09:23:13
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3565132.stm
anybody else sick of shit like this?
"it's a miracle! she had two sets of twins! it's so amazing! WOW!"
"oh by the way she was on fertility drugs and had two embryos shoved up her baby hole."
WELL GEE WHIZ!!!!!! it's like having a story titled:
"MAN JUMPS OFF OF TWO MILE HIGH CLIFF AND SURVIVES UNHARMED!!!!!!"
then halfway through the story mention "he was wearing a parachute for base jumping."
fucking ridiculous. |
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Atheist4Catholics
= Cult of Ray =
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2004 : 11:29:43
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I like how religious types think abortion, cloning, and fetal research are crimes against God, but taking the embryo out of the mother, injecting sperm into it, and growing it in a tube is part of God's plan.
If God had any sense, he'd make idiots like Mel Gibson sterile instead of "blessing" them with a fucking litter.
For more information on rock, visit www.timfranklin.net |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2004 : 11:41:45
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I'm not sure what you're talking about with your "taking the embryo out of the mother" thing, Tim. Care to enlighten an ignoramus?
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
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ShakeyShake
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1058 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2004 : 13:24:35
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I like science,it pretty much disproves religion
"I joined the Cult of this guy / 'cause they took my other picture away |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2004 : 13:55:19
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I don't know that that's necessarily true. It tends to disprove MYTHOLOGY, but there's usually more to religion than that. And I say this as someone who isn't religious at all.
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
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Atheist4Catholics
= Cult of Ray =
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 08:03:30
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Nothing can disprove religion to the people who are religious. They'll just come up with their own version of the facts and call it "Creationism"
Oh, and I meant "taking the EGG out of the mother", not embryo.
For more information on rock, visit www.timfranklin.net |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 11:47:28
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Creationism is a literal belief in ancient Hebrew mythology, dressed up as science so people in this day and age will accept it. It's worked in some places, which is why some school districts now treat evolution as a wild guess, rather than the sound scientific theory that it really is. In order to believe in Creationism, you pretty much have to believe that God can circumvent the laws of science, which shouldn't be that far-fetched for an omnipotent being. To say that Creationism is scientific in and of itself is total nonsense, though.
On the other hand, you don't need to believe in the literal truth of the Garden of Eden, Noah's Ark, or even the resurrection of Jesus to believe that there's something guiding the world and providing hope for its people. I don't believe this, for various reasons, but it's certainly possible to believe it without discarding the findings of scientists and historians.
And when have fundamental Christians supported the idea of fertilizing an egg outside the mother?
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 12:02:20
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I believe in both God and evolution and the two are very compatible. The theory of evolution doesn't discount the possibility that there could be a Higher Power governing the universe, creating these scientific laws, and controlling the evolutionary process; or that God created the universe in its primordial state, the evolutionary process takes effect, and our actions govern the universe independent of God, which is the viewpoint I tend to take. But the truth is, no matter how much scientific evidence you have for one theory or another, no one knows anything as a fact, and it's best not to worry about such trivial things (for although they may seem very important and necessary to understanding our place in nature, they really are not) as how the universe came to be.
ˇViva los Católicos! |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 12:09:43
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Are you a Deist, then, Adrian?
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 12:17:07
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I suppose I could be; although I wouldn't call myself one. But I really don't know enough about Deist theology to say yes or no to that question.
ˇViva los Católicos! |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 12:19:37
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Actually, I recant that statement now that I think about it. I am not a Deist at all.
ˇViva los Católicos! |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 12:50:27
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But the theory of evolution completely discounts the bible version of how the world came to be and therefore rocks the foundatian of christianity especially in a rather dramatic way.
And if evolution was irrelevent, and this science not as important as it seems then the fact of DNA compatability with numerous mammals would render drug testing impossible as there would be no sound comparison and many more people would die every day than they do, this is just one example of why evolution and all the science surrounding it is important, it's a very simplistic one but I think fairly indicitive of why science shouldn't be dismissed so easily.
And yes, I am biased, but biomolecular science is what I do so it's pretty important to me
 I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 13:15:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Tre
But the theory of evolution completely discounts the bible version of how the world came to be and therefore rocks the foundatian of christianity especially in a rather dramatic way.
I don't believe in the infallibility of the Bible, and I don't think the Bible necessarily has to be the foundation of Christianity; this is just one of the very unfortunate erroneous beliefs of Christianity (a couple of other major ones being the belief that Jesus is the only incarnation of God in human form and the belief that some Catholics and most Protestants have, that a simple prayer will bring one salvation)
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And if evolution was irrelevent, and this science not as important as it seems then the fact of DNA compatability with numerous mammals would render drug testing impossible as there would be no sound comparison and many more people would die every day than they do, this is just one example of why evolution and all the science surrounding it is important, it's a very simplistic one but I think fairly indicitive of why science shouldn't be dismissed so easily.
This is very true if you believe in inevitable progress, which I don't. And the world is already extremely overpopulated as it is, the population of the human race has far surpassed the carrying capacity of our environment because of your "scientific progress," and it would be best for the human race if more people died everyday.
And by the way, I don't dismiss scientific research as not being at all beneficial, only certain aspects of it, and only when the intentions of those doing the research are what I would consider wrong, so to speak.
ˇViva los Católicos! |
Edited by - NimrodsSon on 08/15/2004 13:16:20 |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 13:30:14
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To sound like a bit of a bitter nasty bitch for a moment, 'cos I'm in the mood, science as well as providing cures for some of the evil nasty crippling deforming painfull life debilitating diseases that we have knocking around this sweet lil planet of our has also provided a helping hand for the cessation of the population boom that we have on this earth at the moment in the form of contraception, I don't see why one person should be denied a cure to their pain whilst some other thick twat ruts away like a wild dog with no forethought to actually bringing a life into this world let alone how they're going to support it, producing cracker spawn after cracker spawn clogging the planet with children that cannot be adequatley supported and are often unwanted. If people just thought pre fuck that this might be the consequence that they might not want a kiddie, that being a mom at 13 might not be great, that one more unwanted, malnourished uneducated angry little pre criminal might not be a great idea, that they should take the pill or maybe (shock horror) wear a CONDOM then maybe the population boom might not be an issue, I steroptype maybe, but...
That'd be progress
And inevitable progress, yeah, 'cos god wouldn't want us to develop and use the minds that he provided for us? no?
And yeah, my main problem with any religion is it's regimented structure and set belief sytstems
I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 13:45:57
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Yeah, the bible can be pretty fucked up. If everything in the bible was true..Ghandi would be burning in hell right now. I don't think that's right at all. Jesus himself said that his words would be distorted. Another thing that I don't understand at all is the whole "Children will pay for their ancestor's mistakes." thing. That's just fucked up. A loving god wouldn't torture someone just because of what their ancestor's did...They have no control over what their grandpa did (for instance). Just totally fucked up.
Also, Christians make it seem like only they have "faith". For example: "Only our beliefs are right. You'll burn in hell if you continue to believe what you do. You must have faith in God. Blablabla." People raised on other religions have faith in what they believe. They're not going to just throw all of that away because of some fucked up God who sends most of his "children" to hell. I respect Eastern religions much more than Christianity. Christians have always thought that bigotry and violence in the name of God is fine. Hypocrites. Jesus told us that the most important thing is to love, not hate.
When the whole gay-marriage issue really reached it's peak there were priests holding up signs saying, "God hates fags". If there is a god..I don't think he hates anyone. IF the Bible is right..he is one selfish god. "If you don't believe in me, specifically, you're going to rot in hell for eternity you little fucker!"
"Freedom is a state of mind and the condition and position of your ass. Free your mind and your ass will follow." - Funkadelic |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 14:31:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Tre
And inevitable progress, yeah, 'cos god wouldn't want us to develop and use the minds that he provided for us? no?
Yes and no. One question to ponder is, did God give you that mind in hope that you might develop and use it to its full potential? Or, is the mind just another part of the God-eclipsing ego (which I would say, for the most part, it is) that must be [not eliminated, but] completely understood and ignored (for lack of a better word) in order that one may transcend human consciousness and see (once again, for lack of a better word) God. In this case--no, God would not want us to use and develop our minds.
In the other case, I believe you missed the point that I made in my previous post. Of course, scientific progress is great, so long as it strengthens the Unity of all things and allows for a greater realization of the Divine Ground (if you'll allow me to use the term). If it leads to greater destruction of human beings, subhuman creatures, or the environment, then this brand of "progress" only causes disunity, or rather, since all things are united, an intensification of the appearance of disunity.
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And yeah, my main problem with any religion is it's regimented structure and set belief sytstems
Yes, and I feel the same way, but there doesn't have to be a regimented structure or set of beliefs.
quote:
Originally posted by TheCroutonFuton
Another thing that I don't understand at all is the whole "Children will pay for their ancestor's mistakes." thing. That's just fucked up. A loving god wouldn't torture someone just because of what their ancestor's did...They have no control over what their grandpa did (for instance). Just totally fucked up.
I highly reccomend that you read William Law's The Spirit of Prayer, which can be found online here: http://www.passtheword.org/DIALOGS-FROM-THE-PAST/sprprayr.htm
In this essay Law expatiates, in a way that is very easy to comprehend, on the subject you have brought up.
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Also, Christians make it seem like only they have "faith". For example: "Only our beliefs are right. You'll burn in hell if you continue to believe what you do. You must have faith in God. Blablabla." People raised on other religions have faith in what they believe. They're not going to just throw all of that away because of some fucked up God who sends most of his "children" to hell.
Once again, another erroneous Christian belief. I for one don't believe in a literal Hell, as in a lake of fire, but in Hell as a state of mind without God; I don't believe in a fallen angel named Lucifer whose purpose in life is to make people sin against God, but rather in Satan as being the ego and the personal will as opposed to the will of God, and sin as anything that separates our will from that of God, that intensifies the ego. The primarily Calvanist belief in a God of wrath and vengeance who damns his children for eternity is the product of a very time-centered philosophy, and the chief reason that many of the Eastern religions are very peaceful and don't preach Holy Wars and don't believe in eternal damnation, but rather reincarnation is because most of these religions are very eternity-centered, thinking in terms of the eternal here and now, as opposed to being locked in time like many of the early Christians, Muslims, and todays Calvanists. I will not go into detail on the subject of time and eternity since it is such a huge subject, but if you wish to read more, Aldous Huxley has written in great detail on the subject in many of his novels and essays.
ˇViva los Católicos! |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 14:47:14
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quote:
I am not a Deist at all.
Do you believe God still has an impact on the world, then? That wasn't the impression I got from what you said before, which struck me as more of a "God created the world, but didn't do anything after that" kind of philosophy, which is what I was taught Deism is. I probably misunderstood, though.
quote:
Another thing that I don't understand at all is the whole "Children will pay for their ancestor's mistakes." thing.
This is actually contradicted within the Bible itself. See, for instance, Deuteronomy 24:16 and Ezekiel 18:20. There are plenty of passages that say the exact opposite, however. I'd say this is one of the most serious contradictions in there.
The Garden of Eden story, on the face of it, is suggesting that all humanity is being punished because our ancestors ate forbidden fruit. Were I Christian or Jewish, I don't think I would regard this as literally true, but rather as a parable showing that humans, when left to their own devices, will do the wrong thing, and that's why they need religion. We're not being punished for what Adam and Eve did; we're being punished because we would all do the same thing in that situation.
Since I'm not a believer in the Abrahamic religions, however, I think that "sin" is just a way of identifying actions that hurt the community at large, and that (as Adrian seems to have also hinted) religion tends to peddle easy answers for the atonement of "sin." Burn some animals, accept that a Jewish preacher was nailed to a cross for my sake, go through a ritual, pay a priest some money. I really don't think that such panaceas are always appropriate. Some "sins" are easily forgiven, and others can never be forgiven. Most are somewhere in between. The important thing, though, is that it varies from one situation to another. The Bible, especially, seems to teach an absolutist philosophy, and that's one reason why I don't believe in it. What was good for some desert dwellers 4000 years ago isn't necessarily good for us today. The reproduction issue is a significant example here. To the ancient Jews, reproducing was of utmost importance, and it apparently was believed that a man had a finite amount of sperm to last him his whole life, so birth control, homosexuality, and masturbation were considered bad. Are these beliefs really relevant in the overpopulated world of today?
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 14:59:33
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quote:
Originally posted by NimrodsSon
[quoteIn the other case, I believe you missed the point that I made in my previous post. Of course, scientific progress is great, so long as it strengthens the Unity of all things and allows for a greater realization of the Divine Ground (if you'll allow me to use the term). If it leads to greater destruction of human beings, subhuman creatures, or the environment, then this brand of "progress" only causes disunity, or rather, since all things are united, an intensification of the appearance of disunity.
ˇViva los Católicos!
Do you drive a car?
Do you use electricity?
Have you ever been on a bus or train?
Have you ridden on a plain?
Have you used spray deoderant?
Have you used spray can of anything?
Have you ever eaten in McDonalds?
Have you ever bought a nestle's product?
Have you ever purchased an item in a supermarket with more packaging than is strictly necessary?
Have you ever taken a headache pill?
Have you ever purchased a beechams product?
Have you ever bought petrol from Shell?
Have you ever really thought about it whilst your doing these things?There's your science, every day, half of those things are destructive, half of those things cause this planet to be fucked over, none of those things are divine and I bet you've done at least half of them, but because they make everyone's day a little bit easier we're all hunky dory with this shit. And corporate science is the underlying creator of all of them.
"Science" is one big field I don't think you can negatise it with one sweeping arm. I personally take issue with corporate science but I am a scientist and like to think that it's relevant and usefull and very bloody important
I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 15:00:38
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quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
quote:
I am not a Deist at all.
Do you believe God still has an impact on the world, then? That wasn't the impression I got from what you said before, which struck me as more of a "God created the world, but didn't do anything after that" kind of philosophy, which is what I was taught Deism is. I probably misunderstood, though.
Once again, I don't know much of anything about Deist theology. On this issue, I may for the most part agree with Deism, but on the Deist belief that human reasoning is the ultimate end or even a means to the ultimate end, I don't agree at all.
quote:
The Garden of Eden story, on the face of it, is suggesting that all humanity is being punished because our ancestors ate forbidden fruit. Were I Christian or Jewish, I don't think I would regard this as literally true, but rather as a parable showing that humans, when left to their own devices, will do the wrong thing, and that's why they need religion. We're not being punished for what Adam and Eve did; we're being punished because we would all do the same thing in that situation.
The Spirit of Prayer by William Law--read it!
ˇViva los Católicos! |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 15:18:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Tre
Do you drive a car?
yes
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Do you use electricity?
yes
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Have you ever been on a bus or train?
yes
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Have you ridden on a plain?
yes
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Have you used spray deoderant?
no
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Have you used spray can of anything?
I have; I can't think of any spray can of anything that I currently use.
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Have you ever eaten in McDonalds?
Unfortunatel, yes. Do I still? No. Would I again? No.
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Have you ever bought a nestle's product?
No.
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Have you ever purchased an item in a supermarket with more packaging than is strictly necessary?
I have. I really can't think of anything I've bought recently with more packaging than is necessary, and I try not to buy any processed foods, so the only packaging I use for the most part is plastic produce bags, which I recycle.
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Have you ever taken a headache pill?
Not in the past three or more years.
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Have you ever purchased a beechams product?
I don't know.
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Have you ever bought petrol from Shell?
yes.
What does it all boil down to? I'm a filthy hypocrite, and I know it, which is even worst. However, (and this is in no way, whatsoever, a justification for my actions) I try as hard as I can to avoid these things. I'm not hunky dory with this shit, and I would be so much happier if there weren't cars, planes, or electricity. Not only would it be better for the planet, but also for each and every one of us as individuals. I'm still a hypocrite, however; I'm more than likely not going to be changing my lifestyle dramatically in the near future, and is that okay? No, of course not. Also, the fact that I'm sixteen years old and live with my parents makes it rather difficult not to use electricity or ride in cars; but once again, I'm just making excuses and not doing anything about, which is wrong. You are perfectly right in your diagnosis of my character, and thank you for pointing it out to me.
ˇViva los Católicos! |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 15:21:02
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And I realize that may sound sarcastic, but it's not.
ˇViva los Católicos! |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 15:26:05
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Oh bleurgh
Yeah it is hypocritical to dismiss scientific progress and state aspects of it to "lead to greater destruction of human beings, subhuman creatures, or the environment" yet utilise most of it, I feel exactly the same in these respects and act exactly the same, some stuff can't be avoided but to try to avoid these things is better than ignorance in these matters.
And as riled as you are, is as riled as I am when people are basically shitting on what I have made my lifes work, I feel science, and the work I do is relevant and important and way far from trivial
[EDIT] Oh, I did think you were being sarcastic, awareness is a good thing and, yeah, I've forgotten what I was going to add. It'll come to me
I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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Edited by - n/a on 08/15/2004 15:29:54 |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 15:39:08
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Oh, and I don't mean to shit on your life's work. I'll say once again that scientific knowledge can be very beneficial, when utilized in the right way.
ˇViva los Católicos! |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 15:57:50
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what big load of shit.
science is not the cause of overpopulation, religion is. because most religions encourage lots of kids and discourage birth control.
fuck you, imbecile.
edit: to be more truthful, lack of education is the real cause of overpopulation. it just so happens that religion also flourishes where pepole are undereducated. hmm, imagine that. |
Edited by - Ebb Vicious on 08/15/2004 15:58:50 |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 23:05:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebb Vicious
what big load of shit.
science is not the cause of overpopulation, religion is. because most religions encourage lots of kids and discourage birth control.
fuck you, imbecile.
edit: to be more truthful, lack of education is the real cause of overpopulation. it just so happens that religion also flourishes where pepole are undereducated. hmm, imagine that.
let's hope education influences you not to reproduce.
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
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twist
- FB Fan -
USA
191 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 23:18:46
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| On one hand myths are stories that took a thousand or so years to write so they must mean something but on the other hand religion is an unhealthy suspension of disbelief, once you've let your mind go there you'll believe anything especially corporate hype. Religion + Nationalism = bleach + ammonia. On the other other hand let us not be blinded by our own science, even NASA says oops. |
Edited by - twist on 08/15/2004 23:22:07 |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2004 : 23:34:13
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
let's hope education influences you not to reproduce.
hardy har har. how much did you pay bruce villanche for that one, billy? |
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harringk
- FB Fan -
USA
202 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2004 : 19:36:39
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Does anyone care to have a civilized debate about evolution/creationism?
I come to the table as a Christian who has never had any doubt in my mind that the "theory" of evolution was obviously false. However I have recently read some books (supporting both sides of the argument) because I wanted to have an informed opinion, not blind faith. Now being somewhat familiar with the major arguments, I'd be interested in a conversation with someone who has also done some research and came to a different conclusion.
I'm not looking for an athiest vs Christian debate, as I'm probably one of the worst people on the plantet to act as a defender of Christianity. But I am interested in hearing what arguments you think support evolution, because I've looked and haven't found any...
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2004 : 19:44:11
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ask darwin
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
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martha_promise
= Cult of Ray =
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2004 : 20:06:06
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Yeah, Darwin's very knowledgeable and writes very well.
One of the best reason's to believe in something is one that my dad mentioned a few years back. The just of it is that it takes some weight off of your shoulders. An example might be when you have a child, mother, wife, girlfriend, friend, (someone you love) and not be worried sick when they're not in front of you.
Granted, it obviously sounds really weak, but with my pessimistic self, it sure would be nice not to worry so much. Still though, every other reason, science, logic disputes any idea of anything other than nothing.
It's just like it was before you were born right?
*edit* due to drunkeness, sorry.
~~I love the north part, I love your marble ear~~ |
Edited by - martha_promise on 08/17/2004 20:13:52 |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2004 : 00:17:00
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<On the spot> What do you want to debate? Whether evolution occurs? We can see evolution happen. Bacteria over generations become immune to new antibiotics. Weeds become immune to new herbicides. That's evolution. Then gene frequencies are changing, which is the definition of evolution. It's an observable, repeatable fact.
Maybe, you want to discuss whether speciation occurs or whether humans evolved from non-human ancestors. |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2004 : 09:44:58
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I come to the table as a Satanist who has never had any doubt that the "theory" that eating babies is wrong is false.
edit: without resorting to outright calling the "evolution is false" guy a totally retarded, inbred moron, i was trying to point out the utter lunacy of his statement.
but i think it's better to just say that not believing in evolution is like not believing in gravity. |
Edited by - Ebb Vicious on 08/18/2004 09:51:09 |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2004 : 10:23:33
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quote:
Originally posted by harringk
Does anyone care to have a civilized debate about evolution/creationism?
I come to the table as a Christian who has never had any doubt in my mind that the "theory" of evolution was obviously false. However I have recently read some books (supporting both sides of the argument) because I wanted to have an informed opinion, not blind faith. Now being somewhat familiar with the major arguments, I'd be interested in a conversation with someone who has also done some research and came to a different conclusion.
I'm not looking for an athiest vs Christian debate, as I'm probably one of the worst people on the plantet to act as a defender of Christianity. But I am interested in hearing what arguments you think support evolution, because I've looked and haven't found any...
I'm assuming that you are still of the creationist set of beliefs, then? I would be interested in hearing what you came away with from reading books on both evolution and creationism. To me that is one of the biggest drawbacks I have for being a Christian. Religion oftentimes asks you to have faith blindly. That's the basic definition of faith, to believe in something that you can't prove the existence of, and sometimes there will be evidence to the contrary even. It wouldn't be "faith" if God made himself physically visible and tangible to us every day, and we knew for a fact that he existed, would it? I don't think I'd be able to find much in the way of "creationist science" or anything like that that would provide me with the answers I was looking for. I wouldn't think I would be able to find any logical, physical reasons for a belief in God from reading books on the subject.
Evolution, on the other hand, I have no reason to disbelieve, and have seen physical proof of it's existence. I can't come to terms with the biblical translation of what has progressed since the dawn of time; it's total disregard for things that we can physically prove today...like australopithescenes, for instance; actual bones that have been found and documented like Lucy. BTW, I don't consider myself to be an atheist, but my vision of what God is or isn't has changed drastically since I was young and was brought up Baptist.
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shineoftheever
> Teenager of the Year <
Canada
4307 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2004 : 11:14:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebb Vicious
I come to the table as a Satanist who has never had any doubt that the "theory" that eating babies is wrong is false.
edit: without resorting to outright calling the "evolution is false" guy a totally retarded, inbred moron, i was trying to point out the utter lunacy of his statement.
but i think it's better to just say that not believing in evolution is like not believing in gravity.
One cannot believe in Satan without believing in God.
I am not familiar with the "theory" but people eat babies everyday - lamb, veal, et cetera.
Some people believe gravity is a push, not a pull.
Note: I'm not taking sides here, I'm 32 years old and have yet to form a strong conviction for either Creationism or Evolution. It is far too easy to point out holes in both theories.
 "tk-tk-tka-chk-ch-tk-tttt-whaaa-chk-tk-tk" |
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harringk
- FB Fan -
USA
202 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2004 : 11:50:56
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quote:
Originally posted by darwin
<On the spot> What do you want to debate? Whether evolution occurs? We can see evolution happen. Bacteria over generations become immune to new antibiotics. Weeds become immune to new herbicides. That's evolution. Then gene frequencies are changing, which is the definition of evolution. It's an observable, repeatable fact.
Maybe, you want to discuss whether speciation occurs or whether humans evolved from non-human ancestors.
Hi guys, glad to see there are people willing to have a conversation about this. Let me first start by saying that I'll probably only be able to post once or twice per day, since my job doesn't really allow too much downtime.
Darwin, when you say we see evolution happen, I would classify that as natural selection or maybe micro-evolution (is that a real term?). Nobody can deny that natural selection on a micro-level is logical and observable, i.e. organisms that are more successful in reproducing tend to pass the traits that helped them become more successful in reproducing to the next generation.
However that is astronomically different from believing that millions of years ago life magically sprang from non-life and tiny mutations working w/ natural selection lead to the diversity that we now see.
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2004 : 11:51:48
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I'm weaing my evolution is cool (i like science) T shirt for everyone's information
I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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science is not magic or coincidence
