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ShakeyShake
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1058 Posts |
 Posted - 07/31/2004 : 16:52:37
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OK so I'm trying to learn some scales on my guitar,but I'm not entirely sure what they are, or what they're used for,but all the guitar sites on the internet say they're essential and when has the internet ever lied to us?
So anyone wanna lend a helping hand? A brief explanation would be nice,and maybe the names of 1 or 2 basic ones that I could look up?
"I joined the Cult of this guy / 'cause they took my other picture away |
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Doog
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1220 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2004 : 17:22:50
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Hey Shakester...
Scales are like a run of notes that fit in a certain key. Most solos in rock/blues etc are played in the pentatonic minor, Pentatonic literally meaning "five notes" and Minor cause it's sounding pissed off, bluesy, moody, raunchy whatever. Most guitarists quickly delve into the Pentatonic major (fivenotes happy), but just feel wrong for sounding so damn chirpy.
Assuming you can read tab, here's a little...uh...tab of the pentatonic minor in A.
---------------------5-8---
-----------------5-8-------
-------------5-7-----------
---------5-7---------------
-----5-7-------------------
-5-8-----------------------
If you're familiar with your note names (I hope you are!) that first note, 5th fret on the thick E string, is an A, the root of that scale. Make sense? So you could use that scale to solo over a song or riff thats in the key of A.
If you wanna get a bit more cheeky, you can use the bluesy inbetween notes ala:
------------------------------5-7-8--
------------------------5-7-8--------
-------------------5-6-7-------------
-------------5-6-7-------------------
-------5-6-7-------------------------
-5-7-8-------------------------------
This is something Mr Santiago did a fair bit, like on the solo for 'Hey'.
If you'd like any more help, I'd be glad to be of assistance!
 "Join the cult of Ray/He was the best Ghostbuster"
www.doog.tk |
Edited by - Doog on 07/31/2004 17:23:49 |
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Doog
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1220 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2004 : 17:24:39
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And this was too funny not to include:
"Join the cult of Ray/He was the best Ghostbuster"
www.doog.tk |
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1594 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2004 : 18:07:09
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| Pentatonics are the root of everything. |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2004 : 18:31:30
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Here are "five basic scale forms." These are probably the most widely used scales in rock music, and out of these the minor pentatonic scale is definitely the most popular guitar scale: http://www.cyberfret.com/scales/basic/page2.php
And here is a wonderful resource with lots of exotic guitar scales (Hindu, Jewish, Chinese, Japanese, Arabian, Egyptian, you name it...) as well as the more common classical (or whatever you call them) scales: http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_scales.php
ˇViva los Católicos y la Pistolaa! |
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1594 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2004 : 19:39:51
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The Heavy Guitar Bible: A Rock Guitar Manual
Richard Daniels.
Find a teacher who can tell you the how, when and why of minor Pentatonics. |
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ShakeyShake
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1058 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2004 : 06:03:29
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Thanks a bunch y'all,I'm well on my way to becoming a guitar god and no one can stop me!Mwahaha.I'm just on with the "spanish gypsy" now,should keep me occupied for the rest of the afternoon at least.
"I joined the Cult of this guy / 'cause they took my other picture away |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2004 : 06:14:00
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ha ha doog, I put TOTY on and have frank tapping and nodding along to himself, it never gets boring!
Good look senor shakey, I'm re learning to play and I forgot how tricky it is, damned small girl hands and too soft fingers, I never thought I'd *want* calouses.
Frank Black ate my Hamster
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ShakeyShake
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1058 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2004 : 06:20:37
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Yeah my man fingers are still a bit soft and pudgy,I get nice little lines imprinted in my fingertips off the strings if I play for too long.
Best o' luck to you aswell Frau Tre
"I joined the Cult of this guy / 'cause they took my other picture away |
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ShakeyShake
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1058 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2004 : 12:16:11
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Right,scales,got the basic concept of them,everythings going according to plan...
But...how would one go about finding the key that a certain chord progression is in?
For example if I had a progression that went F# A B E?
"I joined the Cult of this guy / 'cause they took my other picture away |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2004 : 13:51:45
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Well, thing is, chances are you'll be playing power chords (i.e. the root and the fifth note), which doesn't include any tonality like major or minor.
So you could be in a number of keys with F# A B E. Most rock songs are based around three or four chords for the most part (because after that you're getting into jazz), and if you're using three chords, it will be the root chord (for example A - this is the key), plus the chord four notes of a scale up (i.e. 5 frets, in this example D), and finally the chord a note up from that (7 frets above the original, the fifth chord, in this case E).
So, to demonstrate:
Ramones - Blitkrieg Bop
A - D - E
Which is:
Root chord (I) - fourth chord (IV) - fifth chord (V)
You can now use this in any key, so in the key of E you would use E - A - B
Now if you want to get fancy, you can add in another chord, and this is often the second chord (so in the key of A, a la Blitzkreig Bop, that would be B). Listen to the bridge in Blitkrieg Bop:
(D - IV)Hey ho, lets go
(A - I) Shoot 'em in the back now (D) (A)
(D - IV) What they want, I don't know
(B - II) All revved up, (D) ready to (E)go!
If you were going to get technical, the II chord would typically be minor.
So, you're example could be in the key of E:
E is the root (I)
F# is the second chord of the scale (II)
A is the fourth chord (IV)
B is the fifth (V)
Honestly, its not as unneccessarily complex as it sounds. Just remember that you have a home key, and in pop/rock, the chances are there will be the fourth and fifth somewhere in there. Other chords will pop up from time to time.
E-F#-F#-A-D (II-III-V-I): Monkey Gone To Heaven
F-A#-C-A# (I-IV-V-IV): Wild Thing/Louie Louie
By the way, any 12 bar blues (and therefore rock'n'roll standard) is as follows:
I-I-I-I-IV-IV-I-I-V-IV-I
For example, any Status Quo song.
And here endeth the lesson. Feel free to ask any more, I know tons more music theory than is generally considered healthy.
Kind regards,
Dr. Simon
Specialist In Broken Hearts |
Edited by - Cheeseman1000 on 08/02/2004 10:08:58 |
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betty
= Cult of Ray =
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2004 : 21:18:14
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hi,
i have a question for the doctor.
let's say you're starting at the ass end of something. you already have the song, and the chords, how do you determine key?
i encounter this problem when trying to write stuff out for other people to play to in a more detailed way than charts. i can't get started because i don't know where i am, would that even be a bflat or a b? then the key changes, but what into? i'm not sure what it started as! where am i???
(please tell me there's an easy way to do this,please tell me there's an easy way to do this, please tell me there's an easy way to do this!)
appreciate the sharing of your "way too much theory" with those of us who don't have enough yet. :)
love,
betty
betty |
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ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2004 : 21:47:28
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This is a bluesy scale you can use. I give you my permission.
e-----------------------
b-----------------------
g-----------------------
d----------------5--7---
a-------5--6--7---------
e--5--8-----------------
Just the Cult of Frank / We want Honeycomb! |
Edited by - ProverbialCereal on 08/01/2004 21:48:20 |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2004 : 10:07:15
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Betty
There's no particular surefire way to find out a key, but there are one or two hints you can look out for.
At the end of, say, the chorus of a song the chord progression might 'resolve' to a chord that feels like home, for want of a better way of putting it. Usually the end of the progression will be V-I, e.g. E-A (this is called a 'perfect cadence'). If you can find which note sounds like home, then chances are that'll be the key.
The other way is to figure out which are the most common chords in the piece, and see if they fit into the I-IV-V pattern.
Basically, you'll be able to tell which key a piece is in by which chord sounds like the resolution: if a passage sounds unfinished, then it would need the key chord to 'resolve' it back home.
Finally, simply, most songs will start and finish on the same chord, which is the key.
Kind regards,
Dr. Simon
Specialist In Broken Hearts |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2004 : 10:43:09
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cheeseman!
I bow to you sir!
And fetch my notebook!
Frank Black ate my Hamster
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2004 : 13:02:24
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Or you could just fuck theory up the ass and do things your own way. Let's push things forward.
_________________________________________________________
Live every day as if it were your last. Eventually you'll be right
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2004 : 14:59:25
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or I could fuck it off altogether because my fingers are clumsy and don't bend the right fucking way and I'm too slow and the fingers won't stay where they're put and the neck of this stupid guitar is too wide for my small hands and my fucking chest keeps getting in the way because this guitar is a grown ups and I should probably use a 3/4 'cos I'm a fucking midget and I can't arch my fingers properly and 'cos I'm grumpy and fucked off now.. 4 hours and I'm still fucking this up. Grr.
try again tomorrow *sigh*
[EDIT] Tell me this gets easier, I remember it taking ages for my hands to get used to bending awkwardly, it will get easier again.. right?
Frank Black ate my Hamster
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Edited by - n/a on 08/02/2004 15:59:27 |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2004 : 15:38:40
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Mike Mike Mike. You're so rock'n'roll eh?
Kind regards,
Dr. Simon
Specialist In Broken Hearts |
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Little Black Francis
> Teenager of the Year <
3648 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2004 : 16:28:38
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I became a better guitar player by learning how to play piano, typing 80 words per minute, learning sign language, listening closely and practicing those pain in the ass jazz scales...
make them fingers strong!
And keep in mind there is also Eastern Scales among other... there is no one chromatic scale... the far east and asia and India have some wicked awesome scales too you know...
best wishes to you!
May the guitar save our souls... and not blow out our ear drums too soon..
Floops quesedillas zijn te vergelijken met het likken van fatsige Albert's aars nadat hij een fles laxeermiddel heeft leeggedronkenhehehahhahehehaha |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2004 : 16:37:18
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I think I'm just tired, I'm still going though. It better get easier 'cos I cut all of my nails right down to the quick when I decided to start again, I'd only just learned how to grow them and make them look girly too. One day I'll look back and laugh
Frank Black ate my Hamster
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vigorstrength
- FB Fan -
87 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2004 : 17:54:15
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If a bass player, know your scales and modes.
Or else you'll sound like a goddamned fool.
_______
www.againandagain.net - dynamic acoustic rock |
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betty
= Cult of Ray =
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2004 : 18:13:26
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thank you cheeseman!
betty's tip:
acrylic nails! can't say enough about em, has improved my tone when fingerpicking, plus i'm not afraid to really play the fuck out of it, these things don't break!
and you usually only have to pay half price for the one hand!
love,
betty
betty |
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n/a
deleted
4894 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2004 : 10:21:25
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Thanks for the tip betty! I can keep my collection of sewer green nailvarnish and it will co-ordinate nicely with the guitar I'm buying when I get back to uni! Hurrah!
Frank Black ate my Hamster
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2004 : 11:23:38
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It DOES get easier Tre.
_________________________________________________________
Live every day as if it were your last. Eventually you'll be right
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TheCroutonFuton
- Mr. Setlists -
USA
1728 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2004 : 12:25:06
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Yes, I started playing a couple years ago and my fingers would just not bend the right way. A couple weeks of non-stop playing and that problem was solved. It gets much easier with time. Also, calusses are a great thing to have. You'll build them up on the tips of your fingers...really helps with the "pain" you'll experience the first couple of months.
"Freedom is a state of mind and the condition and position of your ass. Free your mind and your ass will follow." - Funkadelic |
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ShakeyShake
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1058 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2004 : 14:07:07
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OK,I feel I'm regressing a slight here,but i'm looking at the pentatonic minor in G
|------------------------------------6--8------
|------------------------------6--8------------
|------------------------5--7------------------
|------------------5--8------------------------
|------------5--8------------------------------
|------6--8------------------------------------
and the root note is A#...I don't get it
EDIT:Or was I wrong in thinking that the first note you play is the root note...
"I joined the Cult of this guy / 'cause they took my other picture away |
Edited by - ShakeyShake on 08/03/2004 14:28:53 |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2004 : 15:15:28
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You were wrong Shakers. Its all about the intervals...
It does get easier Tre, its the barre chords that are the worst to get. Try and get them right though, its all very well just playing two-finger power chords but it'll make a huge difference to your playing and scope if you can pull off straight-index-finger barre chords.
Kind regards,
Dr. Simon
Specialist In Broken Hearts |
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Topic |
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Scales(The musical type)
