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Monsieur
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1688 Posts |
 Posted - 07/22/2004 : 10:46:46
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As it can be easily noticed from my posts, I am not, like many other fellow members of the forum, a native English speaker.
Nowadays, almost everyone has to speak English, but it doesn't mean people like it. Here in France, many people are pissed because of it.
Personally, I enjoy communicating in English, and it is one of the main reasons why I post on this forum...I often learn some spoken, idiomatic expressions, that I would never hear otherwise. I like English very much - it is flexible, has many short words and is very good at telling stories (French is more abstract). And some of my favorite writers (like Burroughs) or poets(like Elliot) wrote in Engish.
So, what is your own relationship to English? And what are the main differences with your mother tongue? |
Edited by - Monsieur on 07/22/2004 11:59:21 |
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offerw
* Dog in the Sand *
South Africa
1264 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2004 : 14:35:30
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I am also communicating in my second language here. I haven't been writing much in English for a few years before I started posting on this forum and sometimes it shows.
I've been listening to music, reading novels and watching films mostly in English for ages now and I've no problems in understanding but when I start writing the spelling and grammar trip me up.
I remember learning a lot of English from ABBA records. I translated all the lyrics from my sister's albums to understand what the hell they were singing about. Later I started reading Stephen King novels with a dictionary next to me.
Monsieur, I'm always impressed by how good both you and JediRoller are at using English. Better than some folk whose native language it is.
wilhelm |
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2004 : 15:03:55
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I am a native speaker and you guys definately are way better writers than me...I also can't spell worth a darn. English is a very difficult language and you guys kick my native speaking butt!  |
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jediroller
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1718 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2004 : 01:29:41
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 Why, thank you, Whilelm.
Funnily enough, I started learning English exactly the same way as you (ABBA lyrics and later on, Steve Kings books. And Smiths lyrics!).
I don't think I'd ever be able to learn Afrikaans though. I bought a basic conversation book but the pronounciations pretty much remain a mystery to me. My friend who is a native speaker says it's "Dutch for dummies", but that's an easy thing to say when you're a native speaker. I would have loved to master a few sentences though. That would have been lekker.
Now my friends don't live in SA anymore so it's become a bit pointless, I suppose.
Sorry, Monsieur, I didn't mean to derail your thread.
I have a strange relationship to English when I think of it. My native tongue is French, and I took German as a second language at school. But I couldn't speak German worth a damn today. English is the one that stuck with me. Of course we're constantly exposed to it, or to bastardized forms of it (songs, "franglais", stupid phony English phrases on cheap sweaters and just about every bloody product), while to be constantly exposed to German, you have to watch Arte all the time. Which I confess I don't.
I started learning English, well, at school, and also just as Wilhelm said: ABBA lyrics first (yes, I used to buy those records for myself when I was about 12 - they weren't my sister's), then Smiths lyrics, then Steve King books. I even started translating stuff for fanzines, that was fun to do.
I say I have a strange relationship to the language because, well, my best friends are English speakers, and even my LiveJournal is in English... But then, I don't fill it with intimate details most of the time. It's more a way of keeping in touch with people. (Note from Dave N: Be sure to include frankblack.net to your interests please  )
Sometimes people ask me a question and the answer pops into my mind in English. It's embarrassing. I have to stop myself answering and think hard to find the French words. Sometimes I'm looking for a word and only the English one comes to my mind. Sometimes I'll even spontaneously use it. People must think I'm an awful snob or something :)
Voila pour ce sujet. Sorry for the longish rant.
--
Everything I say to you is gonna come out wrong anyway |
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Monsieur
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1688 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2004 : 04:30:58
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Hey, Jedi, it's been a while...
I started learning English when I was very young (we were moving from a country to another all the time) and when I was a little kid, I used to speak English better than French. When I was twelve, we permanently moved to France, and I slowly forgot my English. I tried to improve it later, through song lyrics, films and books like "The catcher in the rye" and later, "Lolita".
However, Daisy, I must admit that English is not a very difficult language, it is actually the easiest language I know. Declinated languages - like German, or the slavic languages, are way more difficult.
My main problem with English are the articles, I never know whether to put a "the" or a "an" or nothing - the logic is competely different from French.
I must admit that one of the main reasons why I post here is the fact that I really enjoy writing in English. |
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Frog in the Sand
-+ Le premiere frog +-
France
2715 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2004 : 06:10:18
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Has you have certainely nottice, I enjoys realy mucho to write in Anglich.
"Join the Cult of Jon T. / and win your weight in cereals"  |
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offerw
* Dog in the Sand *
South Africa
1264 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2004 : 06:13:52
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Well much better than you have done above.
wilhelm |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2004 : 06:24:03
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Go gaan dit, Wilhelm?
Thats right isn't it? Crazy Afrikaans. I know that and lekker, and thats about it.
If pushed I could probably say 'no' in Sotho and 'hello/goodbye' in Zulu, but I'm not confident.
I think you lot do amazingly well. I speak un petit peu Francais, but its very limited. I remember quite a bit of vocab from school, but my grammar is appalling. If all goes to plan, I hope to take some French classes soon. I'll be reading Proust next...
Kind regards,
Dr. Simon
Specialist In Broken Hearts |
Edited by - Cheeseman1000 on 07/24/2004 06:25:31 |
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offerw
* Dog in the Sand *
South Africa
1264 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2004 : 06:38:31
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You're quite OK with the Dutch for Dummies there. (Jedi had me chuckling with his definition of Afrikaans)
French! Well now there is one difficult language. Ever tried getting a hang of the counting in French part. Phew! Still I'd like to learn the language, they've some very fine films and sometimes I fear the subtitles don't do them much justice. We've an Alliance Francais in town, I should just join.
I can help myself a bit in Sotho, mostly some work related phrases.
wilhelm |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2004 : 06:43:05
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Yeah, I'd like to be able to watch the 3 Colours films without subtitles, particularly. It'd just be a really handy thing to have.
If I get the job I'm going for I'd get free study, so I might just take up French again.
Kind regards,
Dr. Simon
Specialist In Broken Hearts |
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Monsieur
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1688 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2004 : 06:57:14
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| Good luck! |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2004 : 07:00:49
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Thank you kindly. I have my interview on Monday...
I would say send me good vibes, but that would be patently ridiculous, so I won't.
Your support is appreciated however, merci beaucoup!
Kind regards,
Dr. Simon
Specialist In Broken Hearts |
Edited by - Cheeseman1000 on 07/24/2004 07:02:19 |
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Monsieur
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1688 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2004 : 07:14:19
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I've had something like 80 interviews this year, so I know it can be tough sometimes. Believe me, 50% of it is how you manage the stress. So relax, listen to Show me your tears and eventually go to the swimming pool (that's what I do).
Bonne chance! |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2004 : 07:20:19
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A cunning plan, some FB woud make a fine accompaniment to my trip in.
Its an odd situation actually. I'm interviewing for the job I do now - I'm currently an agency temp, I've been there six months and know the job inside out, but as its a public institution there has to be a certain level of transparency and fairness with the recruitment process. Which is fair enough I guess. It means that although I am far more experienced, if I do a bad interview I could fail miserably and not get the job.
That would be so typical.
Anyway, now I've nicely railroaded the thread, back to topic!
What happened to your French thread? See how that died out? Its cause English is just plain better! 
Kind regards,
Dr. Simon
Specialist In Broken Hearts |
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Monsieur
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1688 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2004 : 07:27:20
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| There are only 4 or 5 of us Frenchies here, and some of them (vilainde, jedi and myself) were on holidays. So I guess it is all over. Nevermind, I can always speak French when I want to... |
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Etienne
- FB Fan -
Japan
115 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2004 : 07:36:17
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I guess there are way more than 5 Frenchies checking the forum but I think that most of them do not feel comfortable with posting in English...
Hey Wilhelm : ik kan wel een beetje nederlands praten... Mijn vriendin is nederlands en ik heb een jaar daar gewoont!
Etienne |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2004 : 07:51:52
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See? Look at that, its a crazy language, that Dutch. Crazy.
Kind regards,
Dr. Simon
Specialist In Broken Hearts |
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pfeffa
= Cult of Ray =
Aruba
367 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2004 : 08:01:00
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Wow, all I can say is that everyone (except for the silly jokers) who posted here has an EXCELLENT command of colloquial English...the grammar, the punctuation, the slang. I don't think I could ever learn another language that well?
I've taken several years of Spanish and Russian and all I can ask is 'where is the bathroom?', 'where is Red Square?'
You should all be really proud!
Frank's band is better than your band. Sing it. |
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jediroller
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1718 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2004 : 08:22:51
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Monsieur: marrant, je suis justement en train de lire The Catcher in the Rye. (Trčs en retard, je sais. Comme toujours.)
Cheeseman: if the French topic didn't become the Grand Central of FB.net Frenchdom, it's only because Parisians like Monsieur and Denis and Northerners like myself don't exactly speak the same French. A bit like you Brits and Americans, only worse, because I don't think Brits systematically laugh at Americans as soon as they open their mouth. Mi je parl' comm'cha, et ch'est nin chur qu'i peut comprinte tout qu'est-ce que j'dis. Porquo te cros que ch'DVD ŕ Dany Boon y a des sous-tites? Ch'est nin pour ches sourds, ch'est pour ches Parisiens.
Te vos?
--
Everything I say to you is gonna come out wrong anyway |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2004 : 09:27:46
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quote:
Originally posted by jediroller
A bit like you Brits and Americans, only worse, because I don't think Brits systematically laugh at Americans as soon as they open their mouth.
You clearly haven't been paying attention.
Kind regards,
Dr. Simon
Specialist In Broken Hearts |
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pfeffa
= Cult of Ray =
Aruba
367 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2004 : 10:03:27
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Most Americans completely admire European countries and strive to travel to all of the countries there. We are convinced from a young age that everything in Europe is totally cool, more sophisticated, and better.
We owe so much to the European countries that shaped us. I am totally happy to be in America, but I know that our great American leaders, such as Thomas Jefferson, would not have had such grand ideals for the U.S. without having a global understanding of the time that was shaped by his understanding of European politics.
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Edited by - pfeffa on 07/24/2004 10:10:39 |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2004 : 10:10:07
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In the nicest possible way, everything in Europe is more cool, sophisticated and better than America.
Heh heh, I jest of course.
I like living where I live, it sounds like you like living where you live, and I guess these random foreigners like it where they live. Its a relief to be able to say I'm proud and happy to be British, without getting accused of being overly nationalistic or over-patriotic. I'm perfectly happy to accept that others might be proud of where they're from and thats cool too. Seems like national pride is unhip, but screw 'em.
Kind regards,
Dr. Simon
Specialist In Broken Hearts |
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offerw
* Dog in the Sand *
South Africa
1264 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2004 : 12:19:29
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Etienne, it seems to me most Europeans can speak at least three different languages quite well. Do you guys have to take many languages at school?
The different English accents in the UK amaze me. Londoners are fairly easy to follow. I visited a friend in Durham a few years ago and that Northern accent is damn hard to understand. I often had to ask people to repeat themselves a bit slower.
I've never been to the US but on TV and in films I can hear some different accents as well. I once spoke briefly to a girl from Boston and she had a lovely way of speaking. On the other hand some of the characters in certain sitcoms has awfull accents.
I love an Irish accent.
Simon, all the best for that interview.
wilhelm |
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Monsieur
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1688 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2004 : 13:07:19
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Jediroller, I must admit that the "chti" accent is about the most horrible thing I've ever heard - it's even worse than Canadian French.
Simon, I am glad you like being English - Prince Charles once said that being born British is like winning the Great lottery of life. Well, something like that, anyway. I lost, obviously. Not that I played or anything...
Funny, I like France very much, and it cannot be considered as chauvinism, as I am not entirely French - my name is not French. I also have a true passion for the nordic countries - Sweden, Norway and Finland. I've lived in Sweden for a year, and my ex-girlfriend was Swedish. Maybe I will go and live in Stockholm or Helsinki, one day. I don't like Paris that much - it is cool when you're young, and need a job etc., but I don't think I will stay here. I would like to move to Brittany. Or Massif Central. Or maybe I'll move to America, the home of the brave. The major part of my family lives in the USA, actually.
Btw, I have one question. For those of you coming from Ohio : each time I hear Kim Deal pronouncing "Dayton, Ohio", I find it really hilarious and I wonder if you all pronounce the name of your state like that. |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2004 : 13:21:43
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But if you moved to the Massif Central, you'd have no number if we wanted to call!
What is the root of Adnan then? It sounds like it could be North African.
Also, cheers Wilhelm. In a 'thanks' way... Cheers is more like 'see you later' in ZA right?
Kind regards,
Dr. Simon
Specialist In Broken Hearts |
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Monsieur
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1688 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2004 : 13:25:33
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Allegedly, it is Arabic and comes from the word "eden". But it also exists in former Yougoslavia, and that's where my daddy's from.
Oh, and of course, I wouldn't have a phone number in the Massif. But I would have this fucking ultra high speed internet connection. So I would post on the FB forum much faster. |
Edited by - Monsieur on 07/25/2004 13:27:32 |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2004 : 13:33:03
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Would there be ivy crawling up your modem?
This could run for a while...
Kind regards,
Dr. Simon
Specialist In Broken Hearts |
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remig
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1734 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2004 : 01:35:23
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Back from holidays.
I still keep posting here cos' I like Frank so much and it helps me practice my poor english.
Adninou, Etienne, Jedi and Denis, you're really good, but do you have to speak, read or write in english for business/studies purposes?
I don't.
I agree english is an easy language. |
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benji
> Teenager of the Year <
New Zealand
3426 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2004 : 01:43:39
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well i am alse very impressed with the english from our non-native-english speakers on this forum, and i agree that it is often better than the likes of myself.
but am i right in thinking that it's a perfectionsit streak because it is not natural to you...see, that sentance doesn't even make any sense...
but regarding different english accents - i too am amazed by this. england isn't a very big country but there are so many different accents...why? anyone know?
back home in new zealand, the very south of the South Island (Southland - yes, imaginative we are not) has it's own accent that is markedly different from the rest of the country, and everyone takes the piss out of them as a result.
damn inbreds.
but i digress.
the only other langauage i know anyhting of is Maori and thats cause we had to learn it at highschool. i don't see it as a waste and am glad i did it, but at present it's only actual beneift is being able to understand and sing correctly the haka and our national anthem before rugby tests.
 Join the Cult of Cartman! Respect my Authoritaah!!! |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7442 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2004 : 02:14:38
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jedi: je ne suis parisien que depuis 3 ans, avant j'étais picard, descendant de chtis, alors j'n'ai mi b'soin d'ches sous-titres pour comprend eul' DVD.
remig: I only practice my English here too, and I think you and I have the same level in English. I'm much better at Spanish.
Denis
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Monsieur
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1688 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2004 : 02:34:13
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I have to write and sometimes speak English for my work, though I use business terms that are pretty much international - I don't really consider it as English.
I have a friend from Northern Ireland here in Paris, and his accent is really lovely. I would like to have an authentic accent like that, instead of my half French and half hollywoodian accent. |
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jediroller
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1718 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2004 : 05:06:10
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I don't use English for my work. Newspeak would be much more useful for what I do :) I practice here and on my LJ and with various international online friends.
I only speak English when I'm on holiday in an English-speaking place, and when I'm chatting with my NZ friends thanks to Skype.
I don't really speak "chti" either, I was only pretending. Monsieur, you think it's bad, you should hear people from Pas-de-Calais... I had two guys from Lievin working at my house recently, I could barely understand what they said. Nice folk though.
Denis - to be honest, my wife and I must be the last two people in the Lille area who haven't seen that bloody DVD!!!
Hey, apart from Wilhelm, only French people have replied here. Where are the Dutch, Italian, Swiss, Portuguese, Spanish, Japanese or Martian FB fans? Just being shy?
--
Everything I say to you is gonna come out wrong anyway |
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remig
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1734 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2004 : 05:16:52
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About Belgium, did you ever try to figure Tintin, who lived in bruxelles, with a belgian accent:
"Alleď Milou, on vayeu rétrouvé l'capitaine haddock"
Awful. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6211 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2004 : 05:33:57
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Tintin?
You mean 'Kuifje'!
Haha,
ettienne rocks in dutch!
Man you only lived there are year
but your dutch seems terrefic!
I got French, English and German in Highschool
but I only managed to learn English quite well
I could read the other too with a dictionary though
 "I joined the Cult of Frank/Nobody wanted to join my Culf" |
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Frog in the Sand
-+ Le premiere frog +-
France
2715 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2004 : 06:55:42
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My interest in English originates directly and logically from my passion for American culture, which itself originates from a single word: Oklahoma. Yes, Oklahoma. Don't ask me why, I really don't know. I just remember I discovered this word in a comic book when I was 8 or 9, as I was travelling by train with my mother. I also remember it immediately fascinated me. Later I found out it was an Indian (Choctaw) word meaning 'Red People', and that was enough for me to fall in love with it. Truly. Madly. Deeply.
Needless to say, the first time I visited the USA I spent most of my time travelling throughout Oklahoma and the surrounding States. But that's another story, too long to be told here. :)
I know, I know - I'm crazy.
"Join the Cult of Jon T. / and win your weight in cereals" |
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GypsyDeath
Zapped Profile
3575 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2004 : 08:17:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Cheeseman1000
quote:
Originally posted by jediroller
A bit like you Brits and Americans, only worse, because I don't think Brits systematically laugh at Americans as soon as they open their mouth.
You clearly haven't been paying attention.
Kind regards,
Dr. Simon
Specialist In Broken Hearts
Exactly what I was going to reply with!
My new friends they dont belong here,
My old friends, they didnt want to stay
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Non Native English Speakers of the Forum Unite
