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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
 Posted - 05/12/2004 : 12:46:20
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Well HPM when you hear 500 die here, 37 die there and so on and so forth, everyday, can you get a real sense of the tragedy and/or injustice?
I never said that was my reason or if I even looked.
You know what they say about assuming...
Just offering a perspective which is what you asked for.
Think about all the World Vision type of programs. Do they say millions are starving and dying, we won't show it, but send money now?
I believe MCA, somebody is selling something. |
Edited by - Carolynanna on 05/12/2004 12:55:14 |
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The Calistanian
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1342 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 12:50:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
I don't know,
why do they have open casket funerals?
Some people need to see the actuality of something to really get a handle or grasp on it.
True, some people want closure or whatever, but I don't think that applies here. There is a huge difference between seeing a dead loved one's peaceful body for the last time and seeing someone alive get his head slowly severed.
If his family actually wanted to see this, I won't judge them for it, because who knows what they're going through. I just can't fathom it though.
I am a man with 3 fingers...but that doesn't count my index finger nor my thumb. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 13:01:22
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I didn't say closure,
I said a grasp on it, it being the reality of this poor guy being murdered in such a fashion. |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 13:05:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Homers_pet_monkey
quote:
Originally posted by The King Of Karaoke
What fun!!
This is like fishing. Throw out some bait and see if anything bites.
Too bad I caught me a "sucker" fish.
------------------------------------
Confucious say - The philosophy of one century is the common sense of the next.
He also say my lucky numbers are: 16 27 36 23 11
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/
I REALLY don't believe that was your intention.
Why? 'Cos I think you are better than that.
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!!
I'm just playing with Erubus. I hope he knows that. Some of my posts come across as mean, after I read them. I don't really intend them that way. Sometimes I can't translate my arguements well in writing
It just baffles me, as to how someone can still think what we are doing in Iraq is just.
I'm currently reading Geoge Orwells, 1984. The simularities between peoples mind set in the story, and the mind set of people, involving current real world situations, are unnerving
------------------------------------
Confucious say - The philosophy of one century is the common sense of the next.
He also say my lucky numbers are: 16 27 36 23 11
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 13:13:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
Well HPM when you hear 500 die here, 37 die there and so on and so forth, everyday, can you get a real sense of the tragedy and/or injustice?
I never said that was my reason or if I even looked.
You know what they say about assuming...
Just offering a perspective which is what you asked for.
Think about all the World Vision type of programs. Do they say millions are starving and dying, we won't show it, but send money now?
I believe MCA, somebody is selling something.
I am interested in people's actual reason for watching it. Not what other people think might be there reasons. No offence but I can do that myself. I just think that if people are being REALLY honest then they will admit it was through morbid fascination. A morbid fascination that is greater than it really ought to be.
I may well be wrong, which is why I am asking people the question.
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!! |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 13:18:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
quote:
[i] Erebus, I presume you mean that this murder helps fuel the needed hatred to support a war as opposed to actual justification, in which case I agree with you. If their intent was to inspire fear, they've definitely failed.
My own experience has been that in regard to the war Americans are not motivated by hatred. I've not heard a single person voice anything remotely resembling hatred. For hatred one might want to look in on a Cairo elementary school.
Having said this, I realized that many online chat threads do involve hate speech, so it does exist. But I don't see it around me. |
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The Calistanian
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1342 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 13:19:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
I didn't say closure,
I said a grasp on it, it being the reality of this poor guy being murdered in such a fashion.
Well, either way, a peaceful open casket situation is a lot different than watching someone die.
I understand what you say about not getting a sense of tragedy, hearing 500 die here, 50 die there, or whatever though.
The whole world is desensitized, and I think the fact that people can watch this video is more of a testament to that than a testament to people wanting to be more sensitive.
I am a man with 3 fingers...but that doesn't count my index finger nor my thumb. |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 13:29:52
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quote:
Originally posted by The Calistanian
quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
I didn't say closure,
I said a grasp on it, it being the reality of this poor guy being murdered in such a fashion.
I understand what you say about not getting a sense of tragedy, hearing 500 die here, 50 die there, or whatever though.
I am a man with 3 fingers...but that doesn't count my index finger nor my thumb.
I understand that too, but can people not just read about it? I found the details to be descriptive enough.
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!! |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 13:33:39
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What a contradicting paragraph HPM.
So I can't make a statement regarding human behaviour unless I've actually performed that behaviour?
I'll keep that in mind. |
Edited by - Carolynanna on 05/12/2004 13:34:23 |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 13:38:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
What a contradicting paragraph HPM.
So I can't make a statement regarding human behaviour unless I've actually performed that behaviour?
I'll keep that in mind.
Not a contradictory paragraph at all. Simply one that you didn't read properly.
I really can't fathom how you read it to appear contradictory.
I was saying (clearly enough), that I don't understand why people actually need to see it. Why is reading about it not enough?
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!! |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 13:39:14
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I went to a funeral last weekend for someone who committed suicide.
Yes that sure was a peaceful open casket...
Sorry for the sarcasm but guys people are going to have different reasons. Some maybe for morbid fascination, some not. |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 13:42:35
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"I am interested in people's actual reason for watching it. Not what other people think might be there reasons. No offence but I can do that myself. I just think that if people are being REALLY honest then they will admit it was through morbid fascination."
So you don't contradict yourself at all there?
Why are you asking a question when you already think you know the answer? |
Edited by - Carolynanna on 05/12/2004 13:44:24 |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 13:46:49
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I know they are going to have different reasons. I just asked what those reasons were. If people want to share them then great, if not then fine. I am just interested in their reasons, that's all.
I can see that most people, if not all, are regretting watching it. I think they should too, but because personally I don't think they needed to see it, I really really don't. That's just my opinion.
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!! |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 13:55:52
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I think some people do need to see it.
That way they can see what really goes on in the world.
Alright peace though, this is a whole other thread anyway. |
Edited by - Carolynanna on 05/12/2004 14:01:25 |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 14:03:41
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| If people have a morbid fascination, that's fine. They probably should look at it. I had a morbid fascination once. Then I saw a couple autopsies in person and up close. Hey presto-- morbid fascination gone! I don't ever need to slow down at an accident or see anyone beheaded again. It really has saved me a lot of time in the long run. |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 14:15:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
"I am interested in people's actual reason for watching it. Not what other people think might be there reasons. No offence but I can do that myself. I just think that if people are being REALLY honest then they will admit it was through morbid fascination."
So you don't contradict yourself at all there?
Why are you asking a question when you already think you know the answer?
'Think' being the operative word. I won't 'know' until people tell me.
I am actually sorry I asked the question now. And I really shouldn't be.
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!! |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 16:35:25
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I have a very weak stomach. After just HEARING about it, I wanted to throw up. It's pretty fucked up. It's very fucked up. I watched the video of the burning corpses and that wasn't AS horrible, because it just didn't look real...it's disgusting...I couldn't watch a video like this because I wouldn't be able to handle something like that. I think a person's death is the most sacred thing, and for someone to publicly die like this, to see someone at their most vulnerable moment, is more than what the words "a fucking shame" could ever mean.
I don't condone violence. I don't support violence. I don't support what we're doing nor what they're doing to us, but I do believe in the old "an eye for an eye" saying. How can anybody claim that what we're doing is any better than what they're doing, or what they're doing to us is any worse than what we're doing to them. Perception is a bitch. We're not going to get anywhere with our greedy, arrogant attitude. We refuse to open our eyes and realise that the world isn't a playground and that the US isn't the playground bulley.
Let's do a checkup to see how our reasons for going to war are standing up...granted, this is from what I know, so excuse me if I'm wrong:
1. Weapons of Mass Destruction: None found to date. FALSE.
2. Liberate the Iraqi people from torture: Nope. We're doing it to them now. FALSE.
3. Rid the world of Saddam Hussein: Welp, we did that. But from our actions were born several hundred Saddam Jr.'s to fight the continuing war against the US.
We've gone too far...we're going deeper and deeper and things are getting worse. For every action, there's a reaction. Our reaction is only to push it further, to refuse to pull out and continue to get fucked harder and harder. A year ago, our pigheaded macho (p)resident said "Bring it on." They have. Now what, George?
I can only hope and pray that the words "President" and "Bush" will ever be said in a sentence without the word "Former" this time next year. Otherwise, we can kiss the world goodbye.
Boycott cults and t's |
Edited by - El Barto on 05/12/2004 16:37:02 |
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ObfuscateByWill
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1887 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 16:42:05
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quote:
Originally posted by BLT
I had a morbid fascination once. Then I saw a couple autopsies in person and up close. Hey presto-- morbid fascination gone!
Ditto.
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I don't believe anyone who has watched the clip has done so seeking some sort of, um, enlightenment.
It's curiousity. It's wondering whether heads come off as cleanly as they did in the Highlander movies.
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1984 is a great book, KoK.
However, you won't be able to really 'grasp' the story until you've seen the movie.
I open up my wallet
and it's full of blood |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 17:21:30
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quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
I don't condone violence. I don't support violence. I don't support what we're doing nor what they're doing to us, but I do believe in the old "an eye for an eye" saying.
"An eye for an eye will make you blind."
Gandhi, probably the most noble and admirable human being who ever walked this planet, said that.
¡Viva los Católicos! |
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cvanepps
= Cult of Ray =
USA
442 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 18:57:09
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I have made a conscious choice to NOT watch this clip. I've heard enough and can imagine for myself. Awful.
-= It's not easy to kidnap a fat man =-
http://christophervanepps.iuma.com |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 19:10:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
quote:
Originally posted by mun chien andalusia
quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
How is killing some innocent guy in ANY WAY exacting revenge on the soldiers that tortured those Iraqis? At the government that invaded them? How does that possibly equal not freeing prisoners who, presumably, were caught and taken captive instead of being killed in the midst of war.
So the reason they did it is to scare the US pubblic and send a message to all Iraqis: "We can be as strong and ruthless as the Americans and get away with it. Join the resistance." Simple marketing.
The message that was sent is not the message that has been received. To the average American the beheading serves to justify the war. Assuming that to be simply obvious, we must also assume that Al Queda wants what will happen over the next two decades. The Arab-Israeli conflict has persisted all of our lives but 9-11 brought in the USA in force. This must be a war to the finish. And, yes, there are such things.
I don't know, saying it's marketing is perhaps logical, but then what people are buying into this? Illogical ones. Why should we assume the knife wielding decapitators are the logical ones? I think that they truly believe in their mind that they are justified in this, and that's what saddens me most about humanity.
 "Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened"
You are right but logic has nothing to do with this, it's all about pride and sentiment. Arabs don't look at this as a barbaric act. They see revenge. Brutal maybe but still justified. They suffered 25 years of Saddam, they are promised freedom and what they get is the same thing under a different uniform that moreover is a stranger uniform. Don't underestimate the power of disperation.
 join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 19:17:54
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quote:
Originally posted by BLT
If people have a morbid fascination, that's fine. They probably should look at it. I had a morbid fascination once. Then I saw a couple autopsies in person and up close. Hey presto-- morbid fascination gone! I don't ever need to slow down at an accident or see anyone beheaded again. It really has saved me a lot of time in the long run.
I've seen more than 30-40 autopsies but i won't watch this video. There's an abyss between death in dignity and cold blood killing. Death is something to respect, not just a gross video.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
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IceCream
= Quote Accumulator =
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 20:32:07
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quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
I have a very weak stomach. After just HEARING about it, I wanted to throw up. It's pretty fucked up. It's very fucked up. I watched the video of the burning corpses and that wasn't AS horrible, because it just didn't look real...it's disgusting...I couldn't watch a video like this because I wouldn't be able to handle something like that. I think a person's death is the most sacred thing, and for someone to publicly die like this, to see someone at their most vulnerable moment, is more than what the words "a fucking shame" could ever mean.
I don't condone violence. I don't support violence. I don't support what we're doing nor what they're doing to us, but I do believe in the old "an eye for an eye" saying. How can anybody claim that what we're doing is any better than what they're doing, or what they're doing to us is any worse than what we're doing to them. Perception is a bitch. We're not going to get anywhere with our greedy, arrogant attitude. We refuse to open our eyes and realise that the world isn't a playground and that the US isn't the playground bulley.
Let's do a checkup to see how our reasons for going to war are standing up...granted, this is from what I know, so excuse me if I'm wrong:
1. Weapons of Mass Destruction: None found to date. FALSE.
2. Liberate the Iraqi people from torture: Nope. We're doing it to them now. FALSE.
3. Rid the world of Saddam Hussein: Welp, we did that. But from our actions were born several hundred Saddam Jr.'s to fight the continuing war against the US.
We've gone too far...we're going deeper and deeper and things are getting worse. For every action, there's a reaction. Our reaction is only to push it further, to refuse to pull out and continue to get fucked harder and harder. A year ago, our pigheaded macho (p)resident said "Bring it on." They have. Now what, George?
I can only hope and pray that the words "President" and "Bush" will ever be said in a sentence without the word "Former" this time next year. Otherwise, we can kiss the world goodbye.
Boycott cults and t's
I agree whole-heartedly. But couldn't "we" just kiss the US goodbye? |
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TameReg
- FB Fan -
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2004 : 21:20:44
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| Just hearing about this has gotten me sicker than I've felt in a long time. I couldn't imagine watching it. There's no excuse for what we did to the Iraqi prisoners, but this IS worse. This is beyond cruel. I can't imagine one human being doing this to another. And slowly yet! I just can't even begin to imagine the state of mind they would have to be in. It's chilling. |
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klikger
= Cult of Ray =
693 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2004 : 01:06:37
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| I agree with COF 100%. Although I don't believe America is going to come to a positive solution by being in Iraq, this type of atrocity calls for increased vigilance in fighting terrorism. At the same time I have to acknowledge the fact that it's pretty much an unwinnable war. For every Osama or Saddam that might be captured or killed, there's another million waiting to take their place. I can't believe that people are capable of this type of cruelty. One serial killer doing deranged things isn't unheard of, but to have 5 or 6 onlookers...ok, I'll stop. (I'm sorry to you people that are already sick to the stomach.) This is the most shocking thing I've seen in my life. Homer, you're right, I had a sort of morbid curiosity which is why I downloaded the video. In 1 minute, it scarred my mind forever and provoked me to want to fight these people. But for what? America has shown themselves to be fools by their treatment of the enemies also. Obviously not to this horrific extent though. I'm gonna shut up now, I'm so shocked. If you felt sick after watching Requiem for a Dream, this is like 100x that. Nothing more I can say. |
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cindy lou
- FB Fan -
141 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2004 : 02:27:18
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| not to be 2 cynical but... seems like good timing for the u.s and all the problems that they have faced with the iraq prisoner scandel to have something like this prop up. i tried to watcht the video but started to feel sick... homer is an idoit, so am i, and so are you! |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2004 : 09:49:10
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Somewhat off topic, but is Requiem for a Dream uneasy to watch? I bought it but never watched it...
Boycott cults and t's |
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ObfuscateByWill
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1887 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2004 : 09:57:15
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quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
Somewhat off topic, but is Requiem for a Dream uneasy to watch? I bought it but never watched it...
Boycott cults and t's
I came away from it feeling a bit uneasy.
Other folks have said that they thought it was more of a comedy than anything.
I open up my wallet
and it's full of blood |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2004 : 12:14:36
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quote:
Originally posted by cindy lou
not to be 2 cynical but... seems like good timing for the u.s and all the problems that they have faced with the iraq prisoner scandel to have something like this prop up. i tried to watcht the video but started to feel sick... homer is an idoit, so am i, and so are you!
Hmm, constructive. Well done. Who are you?
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!! |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2004 : 12:42:46
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quote:
Originally posted by cindy lou
not to be 2 cynical but... seems like good timing for the u.s and all the problems that they have faced with the iraq prisoner scandel to have something like this prop up. i tried to watcht the video but started to feel sick... homer is an idoit, so am i, and so are you!
At the Democratic Underground some are saying the CIA beheaded Berg. I guess that if it "benefits" the USA, Bush and the CIA must be responsible. |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5456 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2004 : 13:16:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
quote:
Originally posted by cindy lou
not to be 2 cynical but... seems like good timing for the u.s and all the problems that they have faced with the iraq prisoner scandel to have something like this prop up. i tried to watcht the video but started to feel sick... homer is an idoit, so am i, and so are you!
At the Democratic Underground some are saying the CIA beheaded Berg. I guess that if it "benefits" the USA, Bush and the CIA must be responsible.
What is the Democratic Underground and can you provide a link?
Both sides (Democratic and Republican) have their share of idiots. <showing restraint & not posting recent Limbaugh quote> |
Edited by - darwin on 05/13/2004 13:31:22 |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2004 : 11:08:28
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I never watched the video, but there's very little blood in the pictures..
Maybe when the US had it filmed, they were following FCC regulations.
HA!
 Join the Cult of the Flying Pigxies - I'm A Believer! |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2004 : 11:22:57
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quote:
Originally posted by The King Of Karaoke
Hmm.
http://english.pravda.ru/mailbox/22/101/397/12790_Berg.html
To quote this article:
"7) [WARNING: Reader"s discretion advised] A human head contains 1.5 gallons of blood yet the freshly decapitated head shown in the video is leaking none...."
Wrong. The entire human body contains 8-12 pints of blood. That's 1 to
1.5 gallons in the entire body. Besides, even without a brain the average person's head isn't nearly big enough to hold an entire gallon. Except for Mad Dawg.
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US CIVILIAN BEHEADED BY ALQUEDA - GRAPHIC!!!!
