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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
 Posted - 03/02/2004 : 14:49:48
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Especially for Pixie Steve, here's a Beethoven appreciation thread.
I like Beethoven. I think he ties for greatest musical genius ever with JS Bach, and yes that is over and above Jimi Hendrix, Frank Black, the Beatles, whoever.
His music was among the very first of the Romantic era, and as such was among the first to distil pure emotion into music. There has not, in my (probably useless) opinion, been anyone since who's come close to matching B.'s invention, passion, musical genius and emotional depth in their music.
Recommended listening:
Symphonies No.6 ("Pastoral") and (No.9 "Choral")
Piano Concerto No.3 ("Eroica")
Yes, these are obvious choices, but then again they are simply incredible pieces of music. I would also recommend some of his later piano sonatas, which sound amazingly contemporary, and Fidelio, his only opera.
So, thats Beethoven. Anyone else is free to opinionise about their 'greatest musical genius ever', I'm looking forward to seeing it.
 "I joined the Cult Of Boni/Get Off My Trolley!" |
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Adnan_le_Terrible
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1973 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 14:54:16
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Hell I like Beethoven!!! I always listen to Beethoven when I play chess. Of course, I would put him in my top 5 musical geniuses, with Wagner, Mozart, Haendel and Bach.
For the 20th century, I would name Stockhausen, Mahler, Brian Wilson and Frank Black.
Have some wine, please, don't run away. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 14:57:15
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I like instrumental versions of No. 9 though I've never been a huge fan of choral work. Performed live it might be good though. I love No. 5 and certainly love playing Fur Elise.
Of course, his genius is surpassed by the New Pornographers. :P
That was for that comment elsewhere. I'm not going to dispute Beethoven as musical genius of all time, though, I happen to agree.
 "Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 14:58:13
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Bach definitely, thats always the name I drop into pub conversations... "Who do you think is, like, the greatest musician ever then?"
"Probably Bach"
"Thats not what I mean..."
Other than that, Wagner also. I'll keep thinking re the rest.
In C20 terms, I'd add Schoenberg and Messiaen to my list.
"I joined the Cult Of Boni/Get Off My Trolley!" |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 15:00:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
I like instrumental versions of No. 9 though I've never been a huge fan of choral work. Performed live it might be good though. I love No. 5 and certainly love playing Fur Elise.
Of course, his genius is surpassed by the New Pornographers. :P
That was for that comment elsewhere. I'm not going to dispute Beethoven as musical genius of all time, though, I happen to agree.
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened"
You'l notice I named no names on that occasion, guilty conscience at work clearly...
"I joined the Cult Of Boni/Get Off My Trolley!" |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 15:02:10
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Was it no. 9 that is considered the most sort of revolutionary?
And I hope you're not mocking me :P |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 15:08:42
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Would I mock you?
In answer to your question, yes it definitely was. It was the first symphony to feature a chorus, and in its recurring use of themes from previous movements it started (or catalyzed) the trend away from strict Classical symphony structure.
I hope that answers your question, 'PixieSteve'.
Hardy har.
"I joined the Cult Of Boni/Get Off My Trolley!" |
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ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 15:10:52
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Beethoven rocks in a classical sort of way.
Mozart is good too. Anyone seen Amadeus? Good movie.
 Join the Devil's Workshop / Looking for idle hands to work second shift |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 15:16:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Cheeseman1000
quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
I like instrumental versions of No. 9 though I've never been a huge fan of choral work. Performed live it might be good though. I love No. 5 and certainly love playing Fur Elise.
Of course, his genius is surpassed by the New Pornographers. :P
That was for that comment elsewhere. I'm not going to dispute Beethoven as musical genius of all time, though, I happen to agree.
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened"
You'l notice I named no names on that occasion, guilty conscience at work clearly...
"I joined the Cult Of Boni/Get Off My Trolley!"
Damn, caught in my own web of lies.
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 16:25:52
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Beethoven? That movie about the St. Bernard? That sucked!
The composer was excellent, though.
Join the Culf of Buttoms / It's the Alerican way. |
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ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 18:43:30
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Aren't there five of those awful movies (I liked the first one sort of)?
The other day in a rental store I saw the movie "Beethoven's Fifth." Let us all pray that they don't milk this whole "oh looky here, we are gonna be clever and name these movies after Ludwig's symphonies" concept anymore. It's as if they are making movies just so they can create a "clever" title with one of his 9 symphonies. I'm beginning to wonder if they even filmed a "Beethoven's Fifth," or if they merely made covers for it and distributed them to Blockbuster figuring no one would rent that crap anyway. No one is the wiser, because no one dares to rent the movie for fear of being ridiculed
Join the Devil's Workshop / Looking for idle hands to work second shift |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 19:40:21
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Cheeseman, I don't have enough knowledge to argue the finer points of one western composer's genius compared to another  , but my absolute favorite classical piece is Dmitri Shostakovich's Violin Concerto No. 1 in A Minor (with soloist Victoria Mullova). That is one of the most powerful pieces of art I have ever experienced.
Maybe even more than Beethoven and Bach, I love Mozart, but then I also really like Bartok, Clara Wieck Schumann, and Rachmaninov, ad others..... I can't seem to manage them into a hierarchy. I'm surprised I still even like classical music, after living with my evil stepmother (no joke) who was a first violinist in the orchestra. She used to practice that Shostakovich piece over and over and over almost every day for years, while I watched her hyperactive minions-I mean kids. heheh. Somehow I still love it. It makes me cry.
I loved the movie "Amadeus"! "Thirty-two Short Films about Glenn Gould" is a really great film with a lot of amazingly well-played Beethoven and Bach piano pieces. Then there's also "Clockwork Orange" for Wendy/Carlos Williams' "Switched on Bach". Good stuff.
666 Dunkin' Donuts, a 20-inch veggie pizza from Gumby's, extra jalapenos on the side. And a case of Asahi Dry - |
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2004 : 02:35:40
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I haven't seen many movies with classical music as the centrepiece but I do own the Amadeus dvd. That is a fine film. I also enjoyed 'Shine', about the acclaimed pianist David Helfgott. I'm not the biggest fan of Rachmaninoff but I could (vaguely!) appreciate the complexity of the music.
I just bought a 9 cd box set of Beethoven - all the symphonies. Should keep me out of mischief for a while. I'm familiar with no 6 and 9 as mentioned by Cheeseman. Looking forward to hearing the others.
Beethoven's piano sonatas are also amazing. I've got a cd with Sonata No.8 c Minor, "Pathétique", Sonata No.21 C Major, "Waldstein" and Sonata No.14 c-sharp Minor, "Quasi una fantasia" ("Moonlight"). The man seemed to have no limits to his talent.
Also enjoy Mozart, Chopin and Bach. Should probably listen to classical music more often - I find it to be a ‘cleansing’ experience, if that makes any sense.
 "The Pixies are reforming?? / I say bring back Abba, ahaaa!!!" |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2004 : 10:22:46
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Chopin is good too, for sure. And Rachmaninov is just awesome, the complexity of the pieces is phenomenal. I don't know if you've ever looked at the music, but the piano part is on 4 staves! i.e. you need four hands to play.
I definitely need to check out some more Shostakovich, thats one for the list. There's a whole bunch of others as well.
"I joined the Cult Of Boni/Get Off My Trolley!" |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2004 : 11:52:37
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Cheeseman (Simon) - if you would like to hear that Shostakovich Violin Concerto, just drop me an email.
edit: removed rambling goofiness.
666 Dunkin' Donuts, a 20-inch veggie pizza from Gumby's, extra jalapenos on the side. And a case of Asahi Dry - |
Edited by - apl4eris on 03/08/2004 12:03:56 |
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offerw
* Dog in the Sand *
South Africa
1264 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2004 : 12:03:41
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For the 20th century, I would name Stockhausen, Mahler, Brian Wilson and Frank Black.
Ehm, I think you left out Lou Reed by mistake right? Even that girl in one of Frank's tunes likes Lou Reed.
Anyway I just wanted to say I get stopped in my tracks by Elgar's cello concerto in E minor with Jacqueline Du Pre on the cello. Oh boy it is so very good.
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2004 : 12:21:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Cheeseman1000
Chopin is good too, for sure. And Rachmaninov is just awesome, the complexity of the pieces is phenomenal. I don't know if you've ever looked at the music, but the piano part is on 4 staves! i.e. you need four hands to play.
I definitely need to check out some more Shostakovich, thats one for the list. There's a whole bunch of others as well.
"I joined the Cult Of Boni/Get Off My Trolley!"
I'm gald someone mentioned rachmaninov. He's truly a genius. My piano teacher's father was friends with Rachmaninov and it's really cool to hear all the stuff about him. His pieces are absolutely beautiful. His Concerto number 3 is one of my favorites (the one in the movie "Shine" for those of you who don't know the song but have seen that movie)
¡Viva los Católicos! |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2004 : 13:48:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Cheeseman1000
Bach definitely, thats always the name I drop into pub conversations... "Who do you think is, like, the greatest musician ever then?"
"Probably Bach"
"Thats not what I mean..."
Other than that, Wagner also. I'll keep thinking re the rest.
In C20 terms, I'd add Schoenberg and Messiaen to my list.
"I joined the Cult Of Boni/Get Off My Trolley!"
Yeah I love Burt Bacharach too. "I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself" is one of my favourite songs!!!
What!?!?!?
I'll get my coat.
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!! |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2004 : 13:50:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Cheeseman1000
Chopin is good too, for sure. And Rachmaninov is just awesome, the complexity of the pieces is phenomenal. I don't know if you've ever looked at the music, but the piano part is on 4 staves! i.e. you need four hands to play.
I definitely need to check out some more Shostakovich, thats one for the list. There's a whole bunch of others as well.
"I joined the Cult Of Boni/Get Off My Trolley!"
Oh but yeah, there is NO denying the brilliance of Charlie Chopin. And Harold Lloyd for that matter. Brilliant!!!
I did it again didn't I???
Where did I put that coat???
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!! |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2004 : 13:56:36
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OK, OK I'll be serious now.
My favourite piece of classical music is Bach. I can't remember what it is called but I used to sing to it at singing lessons. It's beautiful. There is no doubting the musical genius of classical composers. They are without question the true musical genius (as I have mentioned before on this site). When I listen to all my CD's of various great bands, I can at least, in some way, imagine how they could come up with the music they write.
In no way whatsoever can I imagine writing a piece of classical music. It's just so far above my ability level it's not true. There is just so much going on for a start. It astounds me, it really does, which is why it is so good to listen to I guess. 
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!! |
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bedrock_barney
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
871 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2004 : 14:18:02
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I love Bach's Toccata & Fugue in D minor. Sends shivers down my spine when I listen to it.
The Amadeus film is obviously sexed up to make for better viewing but it does give some idea of the genius behind some of the great composers. You can see Mozart sat in his house scratching away with his quill pen and seeing the music in his mind. That guy was composing at the age of about 6 - I was playing in my sandpit aged 6. Building some pretty genius like sand cities for my toy cars it has to be said though.
"The Pixies are reforming?? / I say bring back Abba, ahaaa!!!" |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2004 : 14:23:05
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Yeah I sure hope I'm composing when I'm six!!!
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!! |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2004 : 14:52:00
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Fair enough re Mozart, but it impresses me more thinking of the image of Beethoven staring wildly into the middle distance with his big old hair, while actually being profoundly deaf.
Can you seriously imagine that? To write Symphony No. 9 while completely deaf? Its just incredible, respect is due.
I'd also like to take the opportunity to recommend Wagner's 'Tristan und Isolde' (my favourite 'classical' music ever, if you find the 'highlights' Prelude - a 5 hour opera may be pushing it...). That takes orchestral composition to new heights.
Debussy is the other one, a sort of classical version of Monet. Very very beautiful, and lovely to play.
I think I've mentioned Gesualdo before, the wife-murdering fugitive priest who wrote some of the most advanced choral music of the time. This kind of thing (choral music etc) is an acquired taste, but beautiful if you pick the right pieces. Find 'O Vos Omnes' by Gesualdo.
On a vaguely classical tip, anyone here like Rachel's? I've been checking em out,its good stuff.
 "Join the cult of scone/And succumb to the power of the cream tea" |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2004 : 21:45:28
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I love Rachel's. I know/went to high school with a few of the members, so I may be a little biased, but it doesn't matter. "Handwriting", "Music for Egon Schiele", and the new "Systems and Layers" are the ones I like the best right now.
I'm guessing you would like a lot of the bands that are closely related/from Louisville, KY - they were/are pretty incestuous and ended up in a lot of each others' bands. You might want to check out Rodan, Shipping News (older stuff though -the new 4-part cd thing is pretty off) and Slint, too, if you haven't already. A little back on the topic path, Aerial M (Dave Pajo), does a song called "Rachmaninov" that is very good.
666 Dunkin' Donuts, a 20-inch veggie pizza from Gumby's, extra jalapenos on the side. And a case of Asahi Dry - |
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TarTar
* Dog in the Sand *
1965 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2004 : 02:38:20
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My brother is huge into classical music. I bought him "Music for Egon Schiele" by Rachel's for Christmas. He had liked what he'd heard of "The Sea and the Bells," which is the only one I have and I love it a lot. There's a lot going on in that Lousiville, Kentucky scene, like Rachel's, Rodan, Tara Jane O'Neil, and Bob Nastanovich, though I've really only listened heavily to Rachel's and Mr. Nastanovich, but like what little I've heard of Rodan and Tara.
As far as Beethoven goes, his music was amazing, but the guy was a complete jerk. He would improvise pieces for rooms full of people, and what he'd play would be so beautiful that people would begin crying, and Beethoven would stand up and mock them, saying, "You fools!" and storm off. That's awesome.
I thought Amadeus was a great movie about Mozart, even if it was in many places inaccurate. But it's a film, and a film doesn't have to be 100% accurate if it's depicting events in someones life.
"You're muckin' with a G here!" |
Edited by - TarTar on 03/09/2004 02:39:01 |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2004 : 09:03:00
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Think Thomas Pynchon had it right when he wrote Beethoven never got past statements of intention, after his overtures I find him crashingly dull and as regards he and Bach there´s no comparison.
--
"You one of those right-wing nut outfits?" inquired the diplomatic Metzger.
Fallopian twinkled. "They accuse us of being paranoids."
"They?" inquired Metzger, twinkling also.
"Us?" asked Oedipa.
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ana
- FB Fan -
Sweden
13 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2004 : 09:23:05
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| beethoven- alex ( a clockwork orange) |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2004 : 09:53:51
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quote:
Originally posted by TarTar
As far as Beethoven goes, his music was amazing, but the guy was a complete jerk. He would improvise pieces for rooms full of people, and what he'd play would be so beautiful that people would begin crying, and Beethoven would stand up and mock them, saying, "You fools!" and storm off. That's awesome.
I thought Amadeus was a great movie about Mozart, even if it was in many places inaccurate. But it's a film, and a film doesn't have to be 100% accurate if it's depicting events in someones life.
"You're muckin' with a G here!"
You say this like you know them, like "one time, me and Ludwig were in this bar..."
There's some old men on this board, but I think that takes the cake.
As for Rodan et al, consider added to The List.
"Join the cult of scone/And succumb to the power of the cream tea" |
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ObfuscateByWill
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1887 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2004 : 10:25:07
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Don't know much about classical.
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I only have a couple of albums, um, in that vein.
Wendy Carlos' "Switched on Bach" (Which my daughter loves)
Marcel Duchamp's "Erratum Musical" (Which my daughter loves. It's terrible!)
*Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. |
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Beethoven
