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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3169 Posts |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1023 Posts |
 Posted - 04/23/2023 : 07:57:45
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| I'm curious - how could the song be interpreted as not having anything to do with the environment? I've always read it along the lines of the article. The first verse is about a sea god getting killed by "ten million pounds of sludge from New York and New Jersey", and the second verse alludes to destruction of the ozone layer in the 80s ("now there's a hole in the sky") and the ecological catastrophe it represents ("...and the ground's not cold, and if the ground's not cold everything is gonna burn, we'll all take turns, I'll take mine too") - the sky god meanwhile gets sucked into the hole and thus wiped from the sky. Any reading that wouldn't acknowledge the environment seems implausible to me. |
Edited by - Brank_Flack on 04/23/2023 11:20:31 |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2023 : 08:59:48
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| I was basically going to say what Brank said. I've never found Monkey to be very ambiguous or difficult to interpret, despite tons of articles and interviews about the Pixies always using it as an example of their "meaningless" lyrics. It's just about mankind going extinct because of all our crap. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2023 : 03:01:49
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The lyrics state "this monkey's gone to heaven" - firstly I'd like to know what monkey he is referring to there and also why is he employing this metaphor in the past tense ? so far as I see (if the monkey is a metaphor for the human race) we still here - the coming climate apocalypse has not yet materialised - and also the hole in the ozone layer healed up I heard too
I think Monkey is really a song about the human race slowly going mad - and "the hole in the sky" represents the missing part of our collective consciousness as we slowly awaken into the new age |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1023 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2023 : 07:36:43
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| The ozone layer is healing up, to be clear, because of interventions targeted as chemicals/emissions that were causing ozone depletion. Since the song was written in the 80s this context can't be read into the lyric itself, unless you the lyrics are a reflection of the "human race slowly going mad" rather than *about* said madness. Of course, I would strongly disagree with the premise that it is "mad" to be concerned about environmental degradation and climate change (ocean pollution and the drastic increase of wild fires are indeed problems). I do agree that the chorus is the area most open to interpretation. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2023 : 01:17:55
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| It's not mad to be concerned about environmental degradation and pollution - but focusing on one thing (to the detriment of all others) and pandering to media hysteria and scientific fraud is definitely the definition of collective insanity. We're scared of C02 - and now we're scared of a microscopic viral particle that has never been isolated in a lab and the legitimacy of both Climate Change and The Pandemic are/were founded largely on computer modelling - all of which so far has failed to predict anything right. If the human race does become extinct then it will be the result of our own madness and stupity rather than anything else. |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2023 : 07:32:25
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quote:
Originally posted by pot
firstly I'd like to know what monkey he is referring to there and also why is he employing this metaphor in the past tense?
It's just a way of saying humanity. Intelligent mammals, etc. The human race is being called monkeys as a poetic shorthand to show how we're all animals who can be wiped out just like the dinosaurs or any other extinct species.
Past tense because that's when the song takes place: after it's happened already. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2023 : 09:47:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
Past tense because that's when the song takes place: after it's happened already.
But if everyone is dead then how can the song take place if there is no one to write it or perform it?
On the other hand if you interpret the lyrics in local Scot's slang then he could be singing "this monkey's gaun tae heaven" as in going to heaven - which would make more sense and avoids an inexplicable paradox forming |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3169 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2023 : 09:55:04
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Since Brank asked I’ll try to give a rough summation of my Monkey Gone to Heaven theory, and apologies in advance and gratitude in advance to anyone who takes the slog to read this (there is going to be some reference to ancient literature, Bible [probably the same one BF references in other songs], etc. just a gentle and humble forewarning):
And I want to preface my theory with two BF quotes, the first quote is a pretty well known quote where he’s asked about the song, you can find it in several sources, and the second quote is from Rolling Stone Magazine May 7, 2012
1) “It’s a reference from what I understand to be Hebrew numerology, and I don’t know a lot about it or any of it really. I just remember someone telling me of the supposed fact that in the Hebrew language, especially in the Bible, you can find lots of references to man in the fifth, and Satan in the 6th and God in the 7th. I didn’t go to the library and figure it out.”
2) “The phrase ‘monkey gone to heaven’ just sounds neat.” Note: I believe there is another article somewhere that says he started with the phrase MGTH and then built the rest of the song around it.
Synopsis:
MGTH is about what is commonly called “the unholy trinity,” (sometimes the “satanic trinity”) namely Satan, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet, which is described in the Apocalypse (aka the Book of Revelation) the figures of which are referred to in ancient writings like “In Praise of Folly” by Desiderius Erasmus who was a 16th century Roman Catholic monk (“Monk Erasmus”, or “Monk E” for short here). Note: this is in contrast to John Milton’s version of the unholy trinity in Paradise Lost which is Beelzebub, Lucifer, and Ashtaroth and which BF refers to in other songs.
Interpretation:
“There was a guy (god), an underwater guy (god) who controlled the sea” - the Antichrist in Revelation 13 is called the beast out of the sea. The Antichrist is literally a guy who presents himself as though he is god, and who is not under the control of the sea but rises out of it as he pleases. This is the chapter that mentions six-sixty-six.
“Got killed by ten million pounds of sludge from New York and New Jersey” - this phrase is a riddle form of the teaching in the Apocalypse that there are 10 million(s) angels / saints who are called elsewhere “sludge” and who will come from heaven to defeat the antichrist. Revelation 5 refers to the 10 million(s) saints / angels who will return to earth; I Corinthians 4:13 is one example where Christians referred to themselves as “sludge” (Synonyms for the word peripsema are: debris, dreck, dregs, dross, excess, hogwash, junk, leavings, leftover, litter, offal, rubbish, rubble, ruins, rummage, scrap, slop, SLUDGE, sweepings, swill, trash, etc. For instance the CSB translation reads, “even now we are like the scum of the earth, like everyone’s garbage”). Finally, it was common in ancient days to use euphemisms to refer to one location with another name (such as Saint Peter referring to Rome as “Babylon” in I Peter 5:13), therefore “New York and New Jersey” would be a euphemism for New Jerusalem i.e. heaven.
“The creature in the sky got sucked in a hole, now there’s a hole in the sky” - The creature in the sky is a reference to Satan, (the one who empowers the actions of the antichrist), and who is literally called “the creature” in multiple scriptures (cf. Isaiah 14, Romans 1) and was once in “the sky,” the heaven of God, next to the throne (Isaiah 14).
Revelation 19 says Satan will be thrown into the bottomless pit (“sucked in a hole”) which is a hole in the sky as it were, not a pit in the finite earth.
“And the ground’s not cold, and if the ground’s not cold everything is gonna burn, we’ll all take turns, I’ll get mine too.” The ground not being cold and everything burning is a reference to the final chapters in Revelation which say that everything will be burned up, the entire cosmos.
So who is the monkey? Could it be a reference to the Roman Catholic monk Erasmus (Monk E for short)? Has Monk E gone to heaven in contrast to the satanic trinity which ends up killed and in a hole?
In keeping with this reading, the key word in the MGTH chorus is “if” a word that Satan used throughout his temptation of Christ: “if you are the Son of God,” etc (from Gospel of Matthew). So the chorus is actually a series of satanic lies (man is not five according to Revelation 13, because it says that six is the number of man). It is all a false declaration / prophecy, akin to the m.o. of the False Prophet who is the second beast in Revelation 13 and third member of the unholy trinity.
Summary:
The guy who controls the sea (Antichrist) is defeated by the ten million saints (calling themselves sludge) who come from New Jerusalem (called NY/NJ), and then the creature (Satan) is sucked in a hole (bottomless pit) while the false prophet lies (“if) and Monk E goes to heaven.
Is this worse than my theory that bagboy is Judas Iscariot? Is it just peripsema? Too much Catholics and not enough Frank?
PS - It would be possible to hold the environmental view as the primary or surface view, and a view like the Monk E view as a secondary / subliminal view, which you see everywhere from ancient Rabbis like Rashi to YouTube commentators like Rob Ager)
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Edited by - Bedbug on 04/26/2023 09:56:29 |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2023 : 14:04:00
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quote:
Originally posted by pot
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
Past tense because that's when the song takes place: after it's happened already.
But if everyone is dead then how can the song take place if there is no one to write it or perform it?
Is this a joke or are you really asking this? |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1023 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2023 : 17:13:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
Since Brank asked I’ll try to give a rough summation of my Monkey Gone to Heaven theory, and apologies in advance and gratitude in advance to anyone who takes the slog to read this (there is going to be some reference to ancient literature, Bible [probably the same one BF references in other songs], etc. just a gentle and humble forewarning):
And I want to preface my theory with two BF quotes, the first quote is a pretty well known quote where he’s asked about the song, you can find it in several sources, and the second quote is from Rolling Stone Magazine May 7, 2012
1) “It’s a reference from what I understand to be Hebrew numerology, and I don’t know a lot about it or any of it really. I just remember someone telling me of the supposed fact that in the Hebrew language, especially in the Bible, you can find lots of references to man in the fifth, and Satan in the 6th and God in the 7th. I didn’t go to the library and figure it out.”
2) “The phrase ‘monkey gone to heaven’ just sounds neat.” Note: I believe there is another article somewhere that says he started with the phrase MGTH and then built the rest of the song around it.
Synopsis:
MGTH is about what is commonly called “the unholy trinity,” (sometimes the “satanic trinity”) namely Satan, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet, which is described in the Apocalypse (aka the Book of Revelation) the figures of which are referred to in ancient writings like “In Praise of Folly” by Desiderius Erasmus who was a 16th century Roman Catholic monk (“Monk Erasmus”, or “Monk E” for short here). Note: this is in contrast to John Milton’s version of the unholy trinity in Paradise Lost which is Beelzebub, Lucifer, and Ashtaroth and which BF refers to in other songs.
Interpretation:
“There was a guy (god), an underwater guy (god) who controlled the sea” - the Antichrist in Revelation 13 is called the beast out of the sea. The Antichrist is literally a guy who presents himself as though he is god, and who is not under the control of the sea but rises out of it as he pleases. This is the chapter that mentions six-sixty-six.
“Got killed by ten million pounds of sludge from New York and New Jersey” - this phrase is a riddle form of the teaching in the Apocalypse that there are 10 million(s) angels / saints who are called elsewhere “sludge” and who will come from heaven to defeat the antichrist. Revelation 5 refers to the 10 million(s) saints / angels who will return to earth; I Corinthians 4:13 is one example where Christians referred to themselves as “sludge” (Synonyms for the word peripsema are: debris, dreck, dregs, dross, excess, hogwash, junk, leavings, leftover, litter, offal, rubbish, rubble, ruins, rummage, scrap, slop, SLUDGE, sweepings, swill, trash, etc. For instance the CSB translation reads, “even now we are like the scum of the earth, like everyone’s garbage”). Finally, it was common in ancient days to use euphemisms to refer to one location with another name (such as Saint Peter referring to Rome as “Babylon” in I Peter 5:13), therefore “New York and New Jersey” would be a euphemism for New Jerusalem i.e. heaven.
“The creature in the sky got sucked in a hole, now there’s a hole in the sky” - The creature in the sky is a reference to Satan, (the one who empowers the actions of the antichrist), and who is literally called “the creature” in multiple scriptures (cf. Isaiah 14, Romans 1) and was once in “the sky,” the heaven of God, next to the throne (Isaiah 14).
Revelation 19 says Satan will be thrown into the bottomless pit (“sucked in a hole”) which is a hole in the sky as it were, not a pit in the finite earth.
“And the ground’s not cold, and if the ground’s not cold everything is gonna burn, we’ll all take turns, I’ll get mine too.” The ground not being cold and everything burning is a reference to the final chapters in Revelation which say that everything will be burned up, the entire cosmos.
So who is the monkey? Could it be a reference to the Roman Catholic monk Erasmus (Monk E for short)? Has Monk E gone to heaven in contrast to the satanic trinity which ends up killed and in a hole?
In keeping with this reading, the key word in the MGTH chorus is “if” a word that Satan used throughout his temptation of Christ: “if you are the Son of God,” etc (from Gospel of Matthew). So the chorus is actually a series of satanic lies (man is not five according to Revelation 13, because it says that six is the number of man). It is all a false declaration / prophecy, akin to the m.o. of the False Prophet who is the second beast in Revelation 13 and third member of the unholy trinity.
Summary:
The guy who controls the sea (Antichrist) is defeated by the ten million saints (calling themselves sludge) who come from New Jerusalem (called NY/NJ), and then the creature (Satan) is sucked in a hole (bottomless pit) while the false prophet lies (“if) and Monk E goes to heaven.
Is this worse than my theory that bagboy is Judas Iscariot? Is it just peripsema? Too much Catholics and not enough Frank?
PS - It would be possible to hold the environmental view as the primary or surface view, and a view like the Monk E view as a secondary / subliminal view, which you see everywhere from ancient Rabbis like Rashi to YouTube commentators like Rob Ager)
Thanks for your reply Bedbug! I always enjoy reading your interpretations, sincerely.
That reading does, in general, sound structurally plausible (your interpretation of the apperance of the number "10 million" is very intriguing), even if in some places unlikely (I think the Monk E suggestion is incredibly ingenious, but probably the biggest stretch). My biggest question would be whether Charles's biblical literacy is as extensive as this interpretation would demand? That being said, even if it isn't what Charles had in mind, I think its still an interesting way to think about the lyrics.
Another reason I think we should have a pagan sea god in mind comes from Mr. Grieves: "What's that floating in the water? Old Neptune's only daughter." Then again, the devil is indeed mentioned in "This Monkey Goes to Heaven", so perhaps it does work on both levels like you suggest. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2023 : 01:07:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
quote:
Originally posted by pot
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
Past tense because that's when the song takes place: after it's happened already.
But if everyone is dead then how can the song take place if there is no one to write it or perform it?
Is this a joke or are you really asking this?
Do I really have to answer that? |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2023 : 05:56:56
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I don't know whether to reply to it seriously or not. It's sometimes hard to tell if someone's joking on a forum. I don't know how to respond to question that's essentially "if Walter White is so careful and secretive in Breaking Bad, how did he let those cameras film him and make a TV show about him?" I don't know how to begin with the concept of fictional/poetic storytelling and art and what a narrator is and things like that. Like did Aesop actually see those animals talking to each other in Aesops' Fables? How come the ghosts in the Overlook hotel didn't haunt Stephen King when he was there writing The Shining and watching Jack Torrence try to kill his family? How do I...I mean...what?
A narrator is just a narrator. They don't have to actually exist *in* the story being told. If Frank Black writes a song about colonizing Mars does he have to actually colonize Mars? Frank writing a song about the extinction of humanity doesn't have to *include* the songwriter/narrator, even when Frank throws himself in there with "I'll get mine too," which is kind of a spooky joke ABOUT narrators in the first place.
The song is past tense but that part is also future tense, because Frank is playing with the idea that we've all already doomed ourselves. "This monkey's gone to heaven" is not necessarily in the past anyway, but more a slang way of saying "we're fucked."
And he's the narrator. And he's telling a tale. There's no "rules" about when and where a narrator has to be when telling a story. You know this, right? |
Edited by - Troubles A Foot on 04/27/2023 06:10:07 |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2023 : 06:11:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
I don't know whether to reply to it seriously or not. It's sometimes hard to tell if someone's joking on a forum
It depends on what they say - like if it's something a bit daft that makes no sense ? in the context of Frank Black lyrics though..
How else could you possibly interpret that seriously without the underlying assumption that I must be completely retarded as anyone would be to ask such a thing seriously |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1023 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2023 : 09:42:39
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quote:
Originally posted by pot
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
I don't know whether to reply to it seriously or not. It's sometimes hard to tell if someone's joking on a forum
It depends on what they say - like if it's something a bit daft that makes no sense ? in the context of Frank Black lyrics though..
How else could you possibly interpret that seriously without the underlying assumption that I must be completely retarded as anyone would be to ask such a thing seriously
Can't imagine why anyone would think you might be being sincere when making an outlandish and counter-intuitive argument!  |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2023 : 10:23:13
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The song is just riddled with strange paradoxes. For example:
"The creature in the sky - got sucked in a hole"
Right - so where is this hole? How can there be a hole in the sky if it's just made of air and space and some water vapour - which is generally what holes are usually made of?
He then goes on to say "NOW there's a hole in the sky"
So does that mean previously, before the creature got sucked into a hole that there wasn't a hole - or are there now two holes?
See.. it's really the chronological inconsitencies of this song that bother me - until they are more rigourously explained I think even attempting to derive meaning from the lyrics of Monkey is about as futile as trying to drive an EV along the entire stretch of the Gaza Strip on one charge |
Edited by - pot on 04/28/2023 10:23:48 |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1023 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2023 : 11:48:09
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| I don't see the problem? There's a "hole in the sky", i.e. in the ozone layer. "NOW" would hold regardless of whether he's singing from the perspective of the 80s or the future - the hole in the ozone layer is a recent product either way. There wasn't one before as it formed in part because of specific chemicals that were being released into the atmosphere during the 20th century. Because of the hole in the ozone layer, the area on the "ground" underneath the hole is exposed to more direct radiation from the sun ("now the ground's not cold, and if the ground's not cold everything is going to burn", etc). |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2023 : 12:16:09
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I know.. but you know what? I don't beleive anything these climate scientists say anymore - the ones that get to keep their jobs and have hundreds of government funded funded peer-reviewed research papers under their belts. I'm not going to just blanket discredit all of it because I've not read much of it - so there's that if you feel like disagreeing with me and firing something back at me ? but the levels of hysteria the media has stirred up in my lifetime with endless doomsday predictions (none of which if you look back over the past few decades have come remotely close to becoming true) and now it's pandemics and nuclear armageddon again we have to worry about - an act of menticide and genocide no less by whatever corrupt psychos are running the banks these days
Methinks the human race is having a bit of an existential crisis |
Edited by - pot on 04/28/2023 12:17:54 |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2023 : 12:43:45
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Hey - I'm speaking from the perspective of a 90's lefty libtard or whatever version of wokism it would be in those days - if I was in my 20's now I'd probably be sitting in the midle of roads blocking traffic to save the planet or something - or maybe not hopefully - I used to be a paid member of Greenpeace
I'm still 100% an environmentalist - but no sorry Man Made Climate Change is bogus
Man Made Environmental Destruction though - that's very much a thing
Like all the depleted uranium being sprayed all over the countryside of Eastern Europe right now |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2023 : 13:41:40
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I mean right - a point to note in all of the last 50 years of our lives
It used to be all about the dream of wealth and freedom and security and happiness in our lives and career or whatever
Now it's all about creating an atmosphere of fear or dread to control our behaviours
It's not going to end until we stop letting them control every aspect of our lives
Coming soon to a city near you: 15 Minute Cities - for our convenience and to save the planet from dying
No more freedom to go on holiday or maybe even for a special occasion we will require permission on our social credit apps to go - need to save up those carbon credits !
Sorry no it's not about the climate it's about control
But we need to stop burning so much fucking oil anyway ! I don't disagree with that
But if we do then there are going to be certain life comforts we might have to learn to live without again
It doesn't have to be so bad though if we do - but we can't let these bastards win (they really do want us monkeys to go to heaven) |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1023 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2023 : 14:55:02
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| Pot, leave this for the general chat section or 4chan. Earlier you were incorporating it into your analysis of the song lyrics above which is fine, but we don't need a three post rant about your politics here. |
Edited by - Brank_Flack on 04/28/2023 15:08:26 |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2023 : 15:52:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Brank_Flack
Pot, leave this for the general chat section or 4chan. Earlier you were incorporating it into your analysis of the song lyrics above which is fine, but we don't need a three post rant about your politics here.
Don't bore me with your lazy ad hominems |
Edited by - pot on 04/29/2023 05:25:01 |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2023 : 16:04:15
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Any song you have ever sung to an audience automatically entitles you to have any opinion you like on the song - even if it's just a karaoke
Me not very often but a couple of time maybe in the past I was on a going out drinking every night phase and regrettably I have volunteered for karakoe about 4 or 5 times
One of the more memorable ones was my slightly short rendition of Monkey followed by a more embarassing effort on another song I regrettably agreed to take because he didn't have the bloody one I asked for ! hey though it might have turned out to be the less embarassing one to do who knows
As technically an artist who performed the vocal part of this number to an audience in Dumfries in 2005 I defend my right to embarass myself further while irritating whoever I like with my views
It's not my aim to doeither really but you are free to feel however your like |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3169 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2023 : 10:28:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Brank_Flack
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
Since Brank asked I’ll try to give a rough summation of my Monkey Gone to Heaven theory, and apologies in advance and gratitude in advance to anyone who takes the slog to read this (there is going to be some reference to ancient literature, Bible [probably the same one BF references in other songs], etc. just a gentle and humble forewarning):
And I want to preface my theory with two BF quotes, the first quote is a pretty well known quote where he’s asked about the song, you can find it in several sources, and the second quote is from Rolling Stone Magazine May 7, 2012
1) “It’s a reference from what I understand to be Hebrew numerology, and I don’t know a lot about it or any of it really. I just remember someone telling me of the supposed fact that in the Hebrew language, especially in the Bible, you can find lots of references to man in the fifth, and Satan in the 6th and God in the 7th. I didn’t go to the library and figure it out.”
2) “The phrase ‘monkey gone to heaven’ just sounds neat.” Note: I believe there is another article somewhere that says he started with the phrase MGTH and then built the rest of the song around it.
Synopsis:
MGTH is about what is commonly called “the unholy trinity,” (sometimes the “satanic trinity”) namely Satan, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet, which is described in the Apocalypse (aka the Book of Revelation) the figures of which are referred to in ancient writings like “In Praise of Folly” by Desiderius Erasmus who was a 16th century Roman Catholic monk (“Monk Erasmus”, or “Monk E” for short here). Note: this is in contrast to John Milton’s version of the unholy trinity in Paradise Lost which is Beelzebub, Lucifer, and Ashtaroth and which BF refers to in other songs.
Interpretation:
“There was a guy (god), an underwater guy (god) who controlled the sea” - the Antichrist in Revelation 13 is called the beast out of the sea. The Antichrist is literally a guy who presents himself as though he is god, and who is not under the control of the sea but rises out of it as he pleases. This is the chapter that mentions six-sixty-six.
“Got killed by ten million pounds of sludge from New York and New Jersey” - this phrase is a riddle form of the teaching in the Apocalypse that there are 10 million(s) angels / saints who are called elsewhere “sludge” and who will come from heaven to defeat the antichrist. Revelation 5 refers to the 10 million(s) saints / angels who will return to earth; I Corinthians 4:13 is one example where Christians referred to themselves as “sludge” (Synonyms for the word peripsema are: debris, dreck, dregs, dross, excess, hogwash, junk, leavings, leftover, litter, offal, rubbish, rubble, ruins, rummage, scrap, slop, SLUDGE, sweepings, swill, trash, etc. For instance the CSB translation reads, “even now we are like the scum of the earth, like everyone’s garbage”). Finally, it was common in ancient days to use euphemisms to refer to one location with another name (such as Saint Peter referring to Rome as “Babylon” in I Peter 5:13), therefore “New York and New Jersey” would be a euphemism for New Jerusalem i.e. heaven.
“The creature in the sky got sucked in a hole, now there’s a hole in the sky” - The creature in the sky is a reference to Satan, (the one who empowers the actions of the antichrist), and who is literally called “the creature” in multiple scriptures (cf. Isaiah 14, Romans 1) and was once in “the sky,” the heaven of God, next to the throne (Isaiah 14).
Revelation 19 says Satan will be thrown into the bottomless pit (“sucked in a hole”) which is a hole in the sky as it were, not a pit in the finite earth.
“And the ground’s not cold, and if the ground’s not cold everything is gonna burn, we’ll all take turns, I’ll get mine too.” The ground not being cold and everything burning is a reference to the final chapters in Revelation which say that everything will be burned up, the entire cosmos.
So who is the monkey? Could it be a reference to the Roman Catholic monk Erasmus (Monk E for short)? Has Monk E gone to heaven in contrast to the satanic trinity which ends up killed and in a hole?
In keeping with this reading, the key word in the MGTH chorus is “if” a word that Satan used throughout his temptation of Christ: “if you are the Son of God,” etc (from Gospel of Matthew). So the chorus is actually a series of satanic lies (man is not five according to Revelation 13, because it says that six is the number of man). It is all a false declaration / prophecy, akin to the m.o. of the False Prophet who is the second beast in Revelation 13 and third member of the unholy trinity.
Summary:
The guy who controls the sea (Antichrist) is defeated by the ten million saints (calling themselves sludge) who come from New Jerusalem (called NY/NJ), and then the creature (Satan) is sucked in a hole (bottomless pit) while the false prophet lies (“if) and Monk E goes to heaven.
Is this worse than my theory that bagboy is Judas Iscariot? Is it just peripsema? Too much Catholics and not enough Frank?
PS - It would be possible to hold the environmental view as the primary or surface view, and a view like the Monk E view as a secondary / subliminal view, which you see everywhere from ancient Rabbis like Rashi to YouTube commentators like Rob Ager)
Thanks for your reply Bedbug! I always enjoy reading your interpretations, sincerely.
That reading does, in general, sound structurally plausible (your interpretation of the apperance of the number "10 million" is very intriguing), even if in some places unlikely (I think the Monk E suggestion is incredibly ingenious, but probably the biggest stretch). My biggest question would be whether Charles's biblical literacy is as extensive as this interpretation would demand? That being said, even if it isn't what Charles had in mind, I think its still an interesting way to think about the lyrics.
Another reason I think we should have a pagan sea god in mind comes from Mr. Grieves: "What's that floating in the water? Old Neptune's only daughter." Then again, the devil is indeed mentioned in "This Monkey Goes to Heaven", so perhaps it does work on both levels like you suggest.
Thank you Brank for your reply, much appreciated as well.
I hear your question regarding FBF's level of biblical literacy and I have puzzled over that as well. In some of these cases it seems that the final product can undeniably reflect this level of theological sophistication beyond the artist himself. (One of his recent albums has so much more of it than I could have imagined possible, I'm still working through it). I don't necessarily seek an explanation for it through authorial intent, I just let the song lyrics speak for themselves, which is also something Frank has inferred over the years.
One more thing on MGTH is that his biblical references in Doolittle are fairly obscure and detailed (not a lot of people probably knew who Uriah was before hearing Dead I would imagine, and the chronology of Samson in GA is pretty detailed), so it would fit to have a detailed glimpse into the Apocalypse as well. |
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Monkey is the best earth day song (article)
