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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1291 Posts |
 Posted - 03/17/2022 : 19:50:55
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Here comes basically an article, inspired by the conversation around this song, but not necessarily about Human Crime. It’s more of a dissertation to explain my fandom of FBF.
I haven’t posted here much in years, but since this dusty old forum seems to be showing a spark of life (big thank you to whoever the hell is keeping lights on around here!), and I’m a few beers deep and feeling a deep FBF kick coming on soon, I’m gonna unleash. For those of you who weren’t around here back in the day, this is an old school forum.frankblack.net post like back when we used to go deep on the daily around here. AND!… I’m a verbose MFer, and the Actual Bagboy, so what can I say.
Great commentary, Trouble. I dig it, and I dig where you’re coming from. Especially your perspective on how it might feel like Charles is saying “here’s some throwback stuff for you.” I can understand it, and your take on it. Also, I knew you were a practiced songwriter and amateur engineer-type like myself - that’s why I made that comment - I’ve listened to your album! And really enjoyed it! Apologies for the amateur label if you’ve transitioned to professional status in the last few years.
Anyway, let’s get down to Brass Tacks. Regarding the idea that Charles is trying to somehow hip The Youth to his stuff by varnishing it with the Pixies brand… I don’t buy it. This is at the core of what I’ve been trying to say in other posts on this thread, and I mentioned it in Bedbug’s “better than Pixies” thread: I see all things Pixies and FBF as one big old continuum.
This is my perception of it, subjective as it may be, but I see it all as this artist and visionary, epic songwriter, Charles Thompson, writing songs throughout his life, and they’re just filtered through, and in real, artistic collaboration with, the people he’s working with at the time to make them real. He seems to purposefully pursue genres, themes, and has a vision of how he wants things to be perceived, as any artist does, and stacks the deck to push the final product one way or another, but at the end of the day it’s all still just his songs. They resonate and hit us all in different ways, and inspire praise or loathing in the recipient’s mind based on that recipient’s perception, as all good art does.
The dividing lines between songs like Debaser, SuperBound, Whispering Weeds, Lone Child, Captain Pasty, The Flower Song, Bagboy, Silver Bullet, Human Crime… I could list them all, but that line is so blurred as to be nonexistent as far as I’m concerned. The guy is just one of the most prolific and multifaceted songwriters ever, and I simply cannot see Human Crime as being anything else other than yet another great song in one of the most wildly diverse, rewarding, and exploratory songbooks of the last 70 years of popular music.
Currently, the people he’s working with to bring what he’s always done to life happen to be 2 original Pixies and a newer one that fits right in and brings her own awesome sensibilities to the table to boot. He’s what… 56? 57 years old? I’m 42 and have changed and grown so radically in these years that it’s daunting to think how much I’ll change and grow in the next 15-16 years. It’s hard to imagine so many decades as a professional artist and entertainer, and to just keep moving forward in, whether you want to admit it or not, fresh, possibly controversial, conversation-provoking ways. He’s never rested on his laurels.
Say what you will about Pixies 2.0, but I think in hindsight it’s going to be viewed as some cornerstone music in a career of cornerstone music. And that’s not intended to take anything away from what all the incredible collaborators he’s worked with through the decades have added to this awesome stew.
The other Pixies bring a mountain of their own experience and ideas to the table, and they’re a real BAND, just like the other bands he’s worked with. It’s not all Charles, it’s the people and the time and place and circumstances that make it all pure magic. I could write a similar “article” on each iteration of the bands he’s been in, and they’re all worthy of a rock documentary. Anyway, I’m trying to dig it in the moment, not 20-30 years from now when it’s all re-evaluated. You know what I mean?
As a huge Bob Dylan fan, the idea of this continuous obsessive approach to reframing and reinventing is the single most compelling thing about the best musicians. Bob was destroyed by fans and critics alike for going “mainstream” or reinventing as various versions of himself, even if it seemed like a devolution or a less-than kind of thing to some listeners.
The fact that he keeps plowing ahead is astonishing, as it is with all prolific artists to me. And he’s a genuine working musician, the type that loads their own gear. The few times I’ve been lucky enough to shake his hand, I was always surprised at how callused and rough they were - like the hands of my old mechanic uncles.
What I’m getting at is, quite frankly, I don’t give a rats ass about the Pixies “legacy” or whatever, 1) because it’s not MY legacy, it’s his, 2) all of the above that I wrote, because the Pixies are just part of a larger picture, and 3) I’m so infatuated with the music this guy comes up with, that I don’t care what label is slapped on it. I guess I’m a “fanboy,” for lack of a better term.
And that’s the context for my explaining why I think Human Crime is great, and my reason for wanting more, whatever the hell it sounds like or whatever moniker it’s under.
Ribcage, out.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
2961 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2022 : 10:22:10
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Nice post Johnny, appreciate the effort and agree with your big points
I wrote somewhere on this forum that I stopped thinking in terms of “the Pixies” and just think of the whole thing as our man making music with various support groups. I don’t think 2.0 is the Pixies anymore than I think anything during the other projects is the Pixies. And I’m sure there is someone who saw the Pixies in 88 who would tell me that when I saw them in 92 I didn’t *really* see THE Pixies, and I might agree with him.
Having said that, Frank hasn’t made a challenging song since Bagboy. I love all the 2.0 material (a lot less than a lot of his other catalog obviously) and the only song that reminds me of 1.0 is Paz’ Surf Epic. But there is something about FBF that keeps me into it all, even though the new stuff only goes so far. If he revived the Pixies name just to cash in, good for him, they should have been bigger than Prince but they were born out of due time. My two cents on your good post Johnny Ribcage |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
815 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2022 : 11:45:37
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Really enjoyed that post Johnny! And thanks for listening to my album, I hope you check out my new (and better) one which is coming out hopefully in a few weeks!
Yeah, the reason I'm so obsessed with Frank is in part because of his metamorphoses and also the consistencies and the surprises. That's why I can talk about Pixies 2.0 or Catholics or the solo Black Francis era forever. It just really fascinates me. Like would Bluefinger have been the best Pixies album? Would BTE been a great Catholics album? Are the Catholics songs with Joey on them sorta Pixies songs...even the one that literally was a Pixies song? Why are the BTE demos so much better to me than BTE? Why do I think Indie Cindy is super underrated and sounds more like the Pixies than anything else they've put out after that gets way more acclaim? Is Frank ever gonna perform his solo material ever again ever? What if the Pixies started doing some of it?
These keep me up at night.
Yeah, I agree with Bedbug, "challenging" is a good description. I listened to Human Crime 3 times today while walking around doing errands. It's really enjoyable and I like it. But.....(etc) |
Edited by - Troubles A Foot on 03/18/2022 11:47:14 |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
2961 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2022 : 11:55:13
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| Trouble I meant to ask you about your take on the opening chord of Death Horizon. What’s going on there? Another Beatles nod? (Maybe to Dig a Pony, my all time favorite Beatles song). Or just a nice way to intro the BTE closer? |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
815 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2022 : 14:49:43
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This really proves I haven't listened to BTE enough as I had to listen to know what you're referring to (on looking at that track list...it IS a REALLY solid album...)
Yeah that is interesting, it sounds like a Beatles nod or possibly it's the Heavenly gates opening up...The transition from Daniel Boone to Death Horizon is one of the more poignant, sweet, sad, nice things on any Frank album. I wonder if the podcast made reference to this anywhere. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3909 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2022 : 16:32:21
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| I think the video is cool - better than any of the 2.0 videos so far. Just find them all boring but this one's quite creative - love the indie pixie girl in it I'd like to go to a club like that although maybe a little less burlesque? Actually I had the idea to do an illustration or something of the Pixies as actual pixies and couldn't really come up with anything and there's the actual Pixies there doing it (at the end with the 4 grafiti pixies) The bits where she's walking through doors into the grafiti and stuff |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2022 : 14:29:56
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quote:
Originally posted by pot
I think the video is cool - better than any of the 2.0 videos so far. Just find them all boring but this one's quite creative - love the indie pixie girl in it I'd like to go to a club like that although maybe a little less burlesque? Actually I had the idea to do an illustration or something of the Pixies as actual pixies and couldn't really come up with anything and there's the actual Pixies there doing it (at the end with the 4 grafiti pixies) The bits where she's walking through doors into the grafiti and stuff
I liked the video as well. As for 2.0 videos they’ve been hit or miss for me, mostly miss, but I thought Blue Eyed Hex was pretty awesome. Great song too. Probably my favorite 2.0 track.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2022 : 20:50:04
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By the way , Trouble - I’m with you in the “indie Cindy is the most ‘pixies’ new ‘pixies ‘ album in this era.
I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings. |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
815 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2022 : 22:16:30
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Finally SOMEONE is!
I was scratching my head to death when Head Carrier came out and tons of reviews both professional and from fans were like "the Pixies return to form!"
I was like huh? This sounds like a pleasant poppy Catholics album compared to Indie Cindy. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6009 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2022 : 04:09:02
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It sounded more raw than Indie Cindy in some places
Most notably Um Chagga Laga
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
815 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2022 : 08:26:08
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Um Chagga Laga sounds like a Catholics song to me. Most of the Cindy songs sound like Pixies songs to me. Cindy sounds like the natural offshoot from Bossanova or Trompe Le Monde, layered, atmospheric and heavy. Catholics were the "raw" one, remember?
Even specifically Frank's singing sounds like like the young Black Francis on Indie Cindy than it does on anything they did later, and Joey's guitar feels more wild and less...TAAAAAAME as it does on Head Carrier. The melodies and rhythms more unpredictable on Cindy, more weirdness, the lyrics are stranger and more aggressive. I'm not sure I LIKE it the best (maybe due to the mastering), but I do think it sounds the most like the Pixies. Head Carrier felt like a "return to form" only in the sense of oh, after purposefully invoking the Pixies songwriting style, Frank's now just gonna write songs his way and have the Pixies be his backup band now, ok cool. |
Edited by - Troubles A Foot on 03/26/2022 08:31:13 |
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TheScooper
- FB Fan -
USA
176 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2022 : 00:00:24
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Was just listening to IC the other day, it does genuinely feel like a Pixies record. The songwriting is definitely part of it, but also Norton actually understands the band, even if the mixing sucks. Tom Dalgety is just the absolute worst match for the band (I know, well worn territory).
Wish they'd do another record with Gil (or anyone that's not Dalgety) now that Paz is integrated into the band |
Edited by - TheScooper on 03/28/2022 00:01:22 |
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Brank_Flack
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
910 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2022 : 11:59:04
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| I agree that IC is the most "Pixie-ish", particularly the Bossanova/Trompe era, and that Head Carrier marked a return to a more natural/perhaps less self-conscious form of songwriting. I do think, however, there is something to be said about Beneath the Eyrie returning to some of the dark undercurrents of side 2 of Doolittle without being reducible to that era (I can imagine Birds of Prey fitting well along There Goes My Gun and Silver), and that after listening to the podcast I think Tom Dalgety's contributions were quite positive in that regard. The decision for Charles to play mostly acoustic, and Joey's choice to go in a noir/western direction. |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1291 Posts |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6009 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2022 : 00:07:11
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Almost every song on IC is too long. The sound is way too polished for me and it misses the female vocal.
Joey's playing is superb though and all the melodies and lyrics have great potential.
HC and BTE sound more like FB and the C's to me, but are also better in my book.
Thanks to Paz it's not less "Pixies" than on IC.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Brank_Flack
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
910 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2022 : 10:04:00
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| I was a on the critical side when the song came out but now after hearing it a few times I often find myself unwittingly singing the chorus. |
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
2411 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2022 : 11:48:00
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
Almost every song on IC is too long. The sound is way too polished for me and it misses the female vocal.
Joey's playing is superb though and all the melodies and lyrics have great potential.
HC and BTE sound more like FB and the C's to me, but are also better in my book.
Thanks to Paz it's not less "Pixies" than on IC.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
Yeah it's bizarre how the IC songs are so long!
Several, such as Magdelena, sounded better live when sped up a bit. |
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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *
1225 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2022 : 14:07:56
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Enjoying all these extended posts! I don't have so many considered thoughts but I still think Human Crime is good but definitely in a throwaway bone type of mode (e.g. like Women of War). I listen to BTE all the time on Spotify on shuffle so the demos mixed in the with main tracks, I think it's great and my favourite run of Pixies 2.0 music.
I was listening to Doolittle in the summer of '89 and for ages (~6 months) I skipped Here Comes your Man. I was like WTF when they released it as a single. But the Bsides on the 12" more than made up for it. |
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tamefan
- FB Fan -
Canada
182 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2022 : 06:16:14
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| kindt's beautiful piano cover of human crime was used by pixies in their video trailer for doggerel! it was also recently retweeted by the official pixies account. i wonder if it's an album track. |
Edited by - tamefan on 06/06/2022 06:17:25 |
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natenate101
= Cult of Ray =
USA
851 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2022 : 07:19:02
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quote:
Originally posted by tamefan
kindt's beautiful piano cover of human crime was used by pixies in their video trailer for doggerel! it was also recently retweeted by the official pixies account. i wonder if it's an album track.
It is not. Was a one off. |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
2961 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2022 : 18:20:14
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This song is REALLY growing on me.
I totally dig it now
Great job Charles and Pixies! |
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1592 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2022 : 05:57:30
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quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage
Anyone know how to go about seeing if we can track down publishing documentation for these 40ish songs they supposedly have to chose from for the next album?
You can start here:
http://repertoire.bmi.com/
I didn't notice too many interesting song names except a couple like Kennedy. |
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1592 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2022 : 06:00:31
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quote:
Originally posted by tamefan
kindt's beautiful piano cover of human crime was used by pixies in their video trailer for doggerel! it was also recently retweeted by the official pixies account. i wonder if it's an album track.
That piano reprise has stuck the song in my head.
I like the video. |
Edited by - hammerhands on 06/14/2022 06:01:07 |
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Human Crime
