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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2199 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2019 :  08:21:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi all,

I threw out this idea on the Saint Nazaire discussion and oddball was on board so I'm throwing it up on its own thread.

Frank has said more than once during the press for BTE that if it were up to him he would release an album every year.

Would the forum be on board with helping Frank fund this?

Oddball and I are two yes votes.

As some of you might know, I personally know nothing about the recording industry and have no idea how much money we are talking about, but who cares, how much could it be?

What are your thoughts about this?

Is it a bad idea? Has it already been tried and failed? Was Frank just being funny and we shouldn't take it so seriously? Are there legal issues we need to consider?

Please contribute to this think tank with your usual brutal honesty and humor, but I for one think we could / should at least talk this through to see if it is a legit possibility.

Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2199 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2019 :  08:35:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bill Goodman is in per the Saint Nazaire discussion thread. If you see people comment over there direct them here.

Thanks Bill!

I am assuming something like Go Fund Me would be a way to do it?

Another thing to consider is that Frank might not even want us doing this, but I think it's worth a try.
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Jamie
- FB Fan -

USA
61 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2019 :  09:04:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would assume the problem is more logistics than lack of funds. If they put it an album every year it would be hard to keep up all the stuff that comes along with it. Interviews and promotion, tour, etc. They could skip that stuff, but the album gets lost in the shuffle. We wouldn't mind, but the more casual fan wouldn't even know it came out.

Edited by - Jamie on 09/12/2019 09:09:44
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2199 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2019 :  09:16:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't disagree with any of that, and perhaps this is my wrongheaded approach to this whole I idea, but I was envisioning that it's *he* who wants to do one every year, so why not make it a thing. He's done lots of weird releases, give aways, leaks, quickies etc over the years, so maybe he could sneak one out in between BTE and 2.0 #4.

I'm wondering also if he has some kind of legal obligations to the Pixies brand and can't do solo stuff while they are together or on tour or whatever. Maybe the Educator lady can Educate me.
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =

USA
639 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2019 :  09:54:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's not funds.

It's release strategy, promotion time, obligation time / interest from all the band members, etc...

When he was a solo act, hiring a band and self-financing LPs / leasing them to various labels, he called all the shots and could be as prolific as he chose to be, as far as vanity pressings, niche releases, thematic EPs, etc...

Pixies of today is a totally different scenario.

They have a manager known for thinking long-term.

They are all in some sort of a legal partnership, vis-a-vis decision-making.

They all have private obligations, family or otherwise to factor into the time and effort required to adopt a busier output schedule of official product.

I also have a feeling that fan-generated fundraising of this sort may look unseemly to FBF and the Pixies organization because it could easily be construed by the general public as looking like the group had somehow been "reduced" to asking for operational funds when they routinely sell out shows worldwide and likely don't need to come hat in hand to their fans for assistance, other than through charging high prices for collectible album packages.

Fact is, those collectible, limited-edition physical packages and bundles *already are* the crowdfunding campaign you speak of - just in reverse.

There is another way to approach this desire which *might* satisfy the basic premise which has been suggested on this thread, and that *might* be appealing to FBF, the rest of the band and management.

If anyone is interested, I can elaborate later tonight when I have more time.

--

"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2199 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2019 :  10:21:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh yeah, I'm interested.!

Great points as usual PR. Thanks.

I cannot get past the fact that the man has stated publicly more than once that if it were up to him... you know, every year.

What are we supposed to take that to mean? What is "The Pixies Organization" (TPO) supposed to take that to mean?

Looking forward to your follow up thoughts Peter.
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McDutchie
= Cult of Ray =

Netherlands
257 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2019 :  11:15:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
FBF stated very clearly (back in 2013) that he now has zero interest in making solo albums, because they are just as much work and just as much of an investment as Pixies albums, but yield negligible return.

Rightly or wrongly, Pixies albums are the ones that sell (maybe not so much directly as indirectly through sold-out shows in huge venues, but still).

He meant if it were up to him he'd make a Pixies album every year. It doesn't mean he now thinks making a solo album would be worthwhile.

He's also been putting his free time and creative energy into painting instead, and I doubt he'd be willing to give that up at this point.

That said, I'm also very curious about the alternative approach peter radiator has in mind...
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5348 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2019 :  11:48:34  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I think a statement from the fans is needed
You know Weezer got extremely popular last year by following some fan's advice
Not that we want that kind of attention or artistic direction
But still

We have opinions
FBF
The management
Need to hear them

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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =

USA
639 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2019 :  17:15:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by McDutchie

FBF stated very clearly (back in 2013) that he now has zero interest in making solo albums, because they are just as much work and just as much of an investment as Pixies albums, but yield negligible return.

Rightly or wrongly, Pixies albums are the ones that sell (maybe not so much directly as indirectly through sold-out shows in huge venues, but still).

He meant if it were up to him he'd make a Pixies album every year. It doesn't mean he now thinks making a solo album would be worthwhile.

He's also been putting his free time and creative energy into painting instead, and I doubt he'd be willing to give that up at this point.



THIS.



--

"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =

USA
639 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2019 :  17:21:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman

I think a statement from the fans is needed
You know Weezer got extremely popular last year by following some fan's advice
Not that we want that kind of attention or artistic direction
But still

We have opinions
FBF
The management
Need to hear them

---------------------------
BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?



Pixies are not Weezer, in about a million different ways.

FBF and Pixies management certainly pay some sort of attention to this forum, even if only for fun. They know what gets said here.

FBF does as he pleases - which is actually one of the main reasons most everyone on this board is such a fan of his, whether they actively view things that way or not.

The day he starts taking requests and "giving the people what they (say they) want" is the day he ceases to be himself.

I for one enjoy having my expectations thwarted and my hopes dashed, as long as they are thwarted and dashed with Charles' particular brand of insouciant aplomb.

This may put me in the minority.

Just my .02, for whatever they may be worth...



--

"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5348 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2019 :  19:39:54  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
They did tour together a couple of times!

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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5348 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2019 :  21:10:06  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I'm in to send a message
Don't want to pressure him into whatever we want
No fan service

Just to raise awareness about:

1. We could en will give them money every year to release records.
2. Bossanova is your best album, son! Play it!
3 do whatever you want. Shut up and take my money

They have been pretty vocal about giving the people what they want. And they think it's mainly Doolittle and SR.
I think they created that type of audience themselves post 2004.
Play a single like Dig for Fire for two tours and people will recognize it as the classic it is and demand it every gig. So to speak.


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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2199 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2019 :  09:39:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Peter, again. Yes, we like Frank being Frank. Frank doesn't owe us anything, and we don't owe him. I think we all agree on that.

Is Frank's playing Wave of Mutilation 500+ times who he really is? And Fazer Eyes once or twice? That's who he really is? I have no way of knowing. Would be interested.

All I know for sure is that my ears told my brain that Frank's mouth said, "if it were up to me....album every year." That kind of assumes there is something that is not up to him. So since we like him here and are on his team and have been behind him for 30+ years (again, not implying that he owes us anything) when we hear him say that can we just ask, "is there anything we can do to help it be more up to you?" I get that it's all a business and that, per McDutchie's point, solo albums are not worth it "financially;" my thinking was then why not take the "financially" out of it. Your point is that "financially" is irrelevant to what Frank was saying. I hear that.

I am with you also on the enjoyment of thwarted expectations. Other than the expectation of being able to hear the music (cue the compression thread) I love when he doesn't do what I expect (everything from Bossanova to Bagboy, et. al.) This is another one of his Lynchianisms. But this line of reasoning seems to go against playing Wave of Mutilation 500+ times, and also perhaps his repeated "if it were up to me" is also the avenue to more thwarting of our expectations and of him being more him (more Radio Lizards or Virginia Reels or whatever). There's no money in it, so why not give him a Christmass present to just do one for fun. It's easy for me to ask "what could it hurt" because it's not my livelihood, reputation, time / energy, etc.

It was a fun moment to rally behind this silliness for a few posts, but I get that it's probably stupid me.
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =

USA
639 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2019 :  19:27:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bedbug and Billgoodman - apologies if I came across as a curmudgeon, or worse, a naysayer.

I feel your pain and empathize.

I just think there is a different, more palatable way to approach such an overture.

I have been swamped with obligations and have not had time to respond in detail, but hopefully can devote the time to do so whoever get he weekend, for whatever it's worth.

:)

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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5348 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2019 :  21:16:14  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Looking forward to it


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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2199 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2019 :  04:28:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No apologies at all Peter! Appreciate you.
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Discoking
= Cult of Ray =

Belgium
876 Posts

Posted - 09/15/2019 :  22:40:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug

As some of you might know, I personally know nothing about the recording industry and have no idea how much money we are talking about, but who cares, how much could it be?


Not agreeing with that "who cares".
Might be way too much to get together with a handful of fans.


it's educational
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2199 Posts

Posted - 09/15/2019 :  23:39:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Discoking

quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug

As some of you might know, I personally know nothing about the recording industry and have no idea how much money we are talking about, but who cares, how much could it be?


Not agreeing with that "who cares".
Might be way too much to get together with a handful of fans.


it's educational



Noted
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Brank_Flack
= Cult of Ray =

Canada
658 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2019 :  03:07:35  Show Profile  Click to see Brank_Flack's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Also not to be a curmudgeon nay-sayer, but I agree with a few of the comments above - the problem is not that they don't have money to release records. Instead, it's that it doesn't make sense from a business perspective to flood the marketplace and disrupt the two year touring cycle.

I'm not sure how much a personal plea would do either. I imagine he knows that his most die hard fans would also like more new music (and hear obscurer tracks in concert) - but, we are not the general public or even general Pixies fans.

Ultimately, he'll do what he's most comfortable with, and that's fine. If he gets to the point where his desire to record outweighs their current business model, he'll do it, but he also has his painting to scratch that creative itch.
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
759 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2019 :  04:23:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From recent interviews, I got that "if it were up to him he would release an album every year" means he has family/kids constraints, and so have the other members
And not a legal / contractual constraint

It's actually about finding time for himself and the Pixies
He also speaks about how a non Pixies-album would probably only break-even (outside of touring revenue) meaning that financials are clearly on the line

If by some sort of crowdfunding we could help finance more frequent work from him + if it was only solo work / quick n dirty demos like O Little Cloud or Christmass, I would totally support that initiative

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"

Edited by - sdon on 09/16/2019 04:26:35
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stuczuba
= Cult of Ray =

376 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2019 :  07:06:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've pledged for stuff before but the idea has to come from the artist, there's something shady about it originating with the audience.

If you wanna book a Dave magic show then I'm in!
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2199 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2019 :  09:14:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, after further reflection and reading the comments I would consider respectfully withdrawing my motion. Don’t want to offend anybody.
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2199 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2019 :  09:22:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Of course, in his interview with the financial times today we read this:

Pixies are a bigger draw than Frank Black, solo artist, he observes. “You can be satisfied with something small,” he says. “But you have to fund it. Guitars aren’t free. Studio time isn’t free. Nothing is free.”

Frank Black says “you have to fund it.”
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Discoking
= Cult of Ray =

Belgium
876 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2019 :  10:21:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, well, well, ...


it's educational
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2199 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2019 :  12:02:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So in light of this significant development, in what way do we / should we / could we mobilize?
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Jeepster
- FB Fan -

USA
123 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2019 :  18:42:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
...anyone in contact with Frank on facebook or something? if so, let's just ask him, simply send him a message/email saying he has a group of dedicated fans who still love his solo work and want to know if there is a way to support him in making it.

If he really is only constrained by lack of funds then we can try and do something about that. And if he tells us to just forget it because he's actually quit making solo records because (not enough time/doesn't need another creative outlet/been replaced by an imposter Frank-bot incapable of releasing non-Pixies albums/etc), then we forget it



-----------------------
Q: Where do Pixies keep their instruments when they're not playing?
A: Debasement.
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stuczuba
= Cult of Ray =

376 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2019 :  20:51:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
He's got a new, well received album that has been out less than a week and a 2 year touring cycle to support it playing literally everywhere.

I can't think of a worse time to do something like this, at worst it's really dismissive of what he's actually doing right now.
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Niue
7381 Posts

Posted - 09/16/2019 :  21:42:35  Show Profile  Visit vilainde's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by peter radiator
The day he starts taking requests and "giving the people what they (say they) want" is the day he ceases to be himself.



He could do a cover of Destroyer though, that would be nice. Better Things was amazing, let's do the whole album!


Denis
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2199 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  01:35:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by stuczuba

He's got a new, well received album that has been out less than a week and a 2 year touring cycle to support it playing literally everywhere.

I can't think of a worse time to do something like this, at worst it's really dismissive of what he's actually doing right now.



I agree with you. We would want to be as gentle and considerate as possible if we did ever make an approach. We could just say keep it in mind if you ever
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<

Netherlands
5348 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  05:34:23  Show Profile  Click to see billgoodman's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I already transfered all my savings to BlackieF@yahoo.com

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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *

USA
1088 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  07:48:47  Show Profile  Visit johnnyribcage's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This is entertaining, but I'm pretty sure if he wanted to do a solo album, he'd just do it.


I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

2199 Posts

Posted - 09/17/2019 :  10:57:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As long as everybody is having fun
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