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The New Bolero
= Cult of Ray =

391 Posts

Posted - 11/25/2018 :  07:14:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've only seen her pretty much refuse to talk about the Pixies prior to these comments to an Austrailian publication. Interesting.

https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/music/breeders-tour-australia-kim-deal-pixies-20181120-p50h4w.html

With this once seemingly unlikely Breeders reunion booming, and her last dalliance with the Pixies just a few years gone, one has to wonder if Deal is more apt to accumulate meals than finish them. Asked if she might return to that other, even more fraught institution, she pauses for a very long time.

"It was a confusing period," she says, at last, of her last session with the Pixies in 2013. "I thought we were only doing a couple of songs and I played some bass ... I left thinking 'Hey, if you need any more bass, let me know'."

It's not exactly a "never again".

Another pause. "I think that the girl who is actually the bass player now would have a problem with me showing up."

sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
685 Posts

Posted - 11/25/2018 :  12:55:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Keep Paz as the bassist, take Kim back as a composer and vocalist

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"

Edited by - sdon on 11/25/2018 12:57:01
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1694 Posts

Posted - 11/25/2018 :  21:20:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I remember someone in the Pixies entourage saying Deal was absolutely impossible to work with for various reasons, simply rejected any new material, and that the band was a bit imprisoned within that fact. Then after showing sings of "cooperation" she left in the middle of a recording session (which simply meant no album) and that was that last straw that broke the camel's back, they had to drop her for the band to still be able to function as a creative act.

How about this: they do a Bossa/Trompe tour. Put Paz on second guitar (instead of Bob Santiago) and Deal on Bass/Vocals. Bring Deal back just for the tour and let Paz stay as a permanent member for the new material.

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Edited by - picpic on 11/25/2018 21:22:59
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stuczuba
= Cult of Ray =

315 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2018 :  01:08:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Get Kelly in, close enough.


(not really, I like Paz!)
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

1781 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2018 :  03:38:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The News really wants to make news of this. Are a lot of fans still thinking about this?
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stuczuba
= Cult of Ray =

315 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2018 :  06:20:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I guess they google their research, see the same old crap and ask about it.

I thought Kim S being replaced was a bigger story tbh.
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

1781 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2018 :  07:54:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, I actually was thinking that it would be unfair to welcome Kim D back without welcoming Kim S back as well.

There's not a diss there with Kim D referring to Paz L as "the girl" I'm sure, I think.
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1694 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2018 :  08:46:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug

The News really wants to make news of this. Are a lot of fans still thinking about this?


Yes. The amount of « no Kim, no Deal » comments on new Pixies videos is frightening.

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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

1781 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2018 :  09:15:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How does the forum shape up I’m this matter?

Can we create a poll and see?

I get that this is Frank Black dot com or whatever, but i would assume we’d have some diversity? Maybe not.

Loving the departed
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Jeepster
- FB Fan -

USA
107 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2018 :  10:03:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A big forum-wide poll about a variety of topics would be pretty interesting I think. It could ask about demographics (I wonder how many musicians vs. non-musicians there are on this forum?), opinion on Kim Deal (or all of the band members, really), what everyone's favorite and least favorite albums are, cool stuff like that.

Personally I think it's a shame that Kim didn't feel that the band was the right creative environment for her. She's a fantastic, talented musician and I'm enjoying the new Breeders music a lot. Refusing to enjoy new Pixies music because of her leaving is ridiculous, and Paz is doing a very good job (she really has great stage presence- I put a flower on my bass guitar after seeing that she has one, and her dance moves are great).

Kim's response in the interview seems more like justified annoyance with the interviewer than anything else. If she really were that resentful about Pixies, I doubt she'd be playing Gigantic at every Breeders show.

-----------------------
Q: Where do Pixies keep their instruments when they're not playing?
A: Debasement.
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yarbles
= Cult of Ray =

USA
538 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2018 :  19:34:24  Show Profile  Visit yarbles's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Here's how I see it. From 2004-2013 the band catered to Kim. The first and only new song released in that decade was Kim's "Bam Thwok".... they let that be their big comeback single...it was less than stellar. Any other attempt at making new music was nixed because of her apprehensions. Instead, Frank takes up the Black Francis name again and releases Bluefinger/Svn Fngrs/The Golem/ Nonstoperotik.... which I'm pretty sure would've been Pixies releases in some form or another if all 4 had been willing. They finally get her to record new music, and I seriously doubt that she didn't have demos for the entire album... I highly doubt the rest of the band tricked her into going to Wales with weeks booked with Gil Norton to just do a song or two.

In any case, she left. And I don't blame her if she wasn't feeling it. I just think she strung the rest of the band on for way too long, and then leaving them high and dry like that in the middle of what was probably already a stressful/high pressure session was a dick move.

In any case, she left and the band moved on. Say what you want about Pixies 2.0, but I'm glad they're around making more music. They're happy and have great careers. I loved Head Carrier and can't wait to see what the band does next.

And Paz deserves all the credit in the world. Sure her voice isn't like Kim's, but she still sounds great and keeps getting better. I was just noticing a few weeks ago in Brooklyn that her voice is getting more confident and powerful, I especially took note of that while she powerfully belted out her " ED... IS... DEAD" part. It worked SOOO well with Black. And I shouldn't have to say anything about her bass playing. By far the best bass player to ever play in Pixies. She makes the band tightier and more energetic.

Kim doesn't want to be in Pixies. I don't think she should go back, because it's obvious she is over it. She's happy doing The Breeders full time... which I think is what she's wanted to do since 1990...

I don't think the band or Paz should let her back either.

Both parties have moved on. I wish the "No Kim No Deal" fans could accept that and move on too. It's not 2013 anymore. Besides, shouldn't they be ecstatic that The Breeders are a fulltime thing again anyway? Would they really want that to stop so Kim could go back to playing Doolittle tours with the guys again?
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stuczuba
= Cult of Ray =

315 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2018 :  08:59:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Should just be glad it's lasted as long as it has - who'd have thought we'd be living in the 21st century with both Pixies and The Breeders releasing new stuff and touring?

All that no Kim no Deal stuff was already tired in 2013, no-one really cares now do they?
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1694 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2018 :  10:54:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not here at least

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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

1781 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2018 :  11:05:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by yarbles

Here's how I see it. From 2004-2013 the band catered to Kim. The first and only new song released in that decade was Kim's "Bam Thwok".... they let that be their big comeback single...it was less than stellar. Any other attempt at making new music was nixed because of her apprehensions. Instead, Frank takes up the Black Francis name again and releases Bluefinger/Svn Fngrs/The Golem/ Nonstoperotik.... which I'm pretty sure would've been Pixies releases in some form or another if all 4 had been willing. They finally get her to record new music, and I seriously doubt that she didn't have demos for the entire album... I highly doubt the rest of the band tricked her into going to Wales with weeks booked with Gil Norton to just do a song or two.

In any case, she left. And I don't blame her if she wasn't feeling it. I just think she strung the rest of the band on for way too long, and then leaving them high and dry like that in the middle of what was probably already a stressful/high pressure session was a dick move.

In any case, she left and the band moved on. Say what you want about Pixies 2.0, but I'm glad they're around making more music. They're happy and have great careers. I loved Head Carrier and can't wait to see what the band does next.

And Paz deserves all the credit in the world. Sure her voice isn't like Kim's, but she still sounds great and keeps getting better. I was just noticing a few weeks ago in Brooklyn that her voice is getting more confident and powerful, I especially took note of that while she powerfully belted out her " ED... IS... DEAD" part. It worked SOOO well with Black. And I shouldn't have to say anything about her bass playing. By far the best bass player to ever play in Pixies. She makes the band tightier and more energetic.

Kim doesn't want to be in Pixies. I don't think she should go back, because it's obvious she is over it. She's happy doing The Breeders full time... which I think is what she's wanted to do since 1990...

I don't think the band or Paz should let her back either.

Both parties have moved on. I wish the "No Kim No Deal" fans could accept that and move on too. It's not 2013 anymore. Besides, shouldn't they be ecstatic that The Breeders are a fulltime thing again anyway? Would they really want that to stop so Kim could go back to playing Doolittle tours with the guys again?



Sound reasoning Yarbles
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

1781 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2018 :  11:06:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I for one have never met an actual "no deal no pixies" or whatever you call it person in real life.

Am I wrong for thinking there are some spambots involved in some of those comments?
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
685 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2018 :  13:20:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Where's Fissile?

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Sprite
= Cult of Ray =

899 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2018 :  13:30:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've met a couple of No-Kim-No-Deal types. But ask them what's the longest song on Bossanova or which song on Trompe has a tablas and it's 'Errmmmmmmmm...'
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stuczuba
= Cult of Ray =

315 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2018 :  21:54:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sprite

which song on Trompe has a tablas


Still blows my mind when I hear them, how did they hide for so long...
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1694 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2018 :  23:44:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sprite

I've met a couple of No-Kim-No-Deal types. But ask them what's the longest song on Bossanova or which song on Trompe has a tablas and it's 'Errmmmmmmmm...'


The one about EDF's brother
The guy with a "D=RXT" licence plate.



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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

1781 Posts

Posted - 11/28/2018 :  02:54:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Another pause. "I think that the girl who is actually the bass player now would have a problem with me showing up."

But Kim, "the girl who is actually the bass player now" wrote a song about you, her idea, her lyrics, in your honor. Maybe she wouldn't have a problem? How would we know?
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1694 Posts

Posted - 11/28/2018 :  03:55:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'll stick to what the man said about the whole mess: "private shit". We'll never know.

I think the 3 others were smart enough not to comment too much about it. Every time some interviewer brought the topic on the table, they just casually responded something like "oh she just left, that's cool, that's fine. no problem".

Deal departure was probably a good choice for the 3 of them. They all got their creative freedom back, so... that's cool.

I can't see Deal coming back anytime soon to perform 1.0 stuff again. And again. And again. It wouldn't work.
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Edited by - picpic on 11/28/2018 03:57:42
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yarbles
= Cult of Ray =

USA
538 Posts

Posted - 11/28/2018 :  07:30:17  Show Profile  Visit yarbles's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I think a lot of casual fans don't realize how much/little Kim was a part of the original band. She co-wrote 2 songs out of 5 albums... and she was barely on the last two.... I feel like creatively she's been done with the band since 1990. It should be clear to everyone that The Breeders is where she wants to be and where she wants to focus her creativity. If only the No Kim No Dealers would realize that things are the best they could possibly be right now. Kim's doing exactly what she wants.
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =

USA
621 Posts

Posted - 11/28/2018 :  07:33:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From the time they formed until they broke up in the early '90s, they were a Band.

From the time they reunited till Kim left, they were a group.

They are a Band again now, and I have a feeling they'd rather just stop Pixies altogether than go back to being a group, no matter who's playing bass

--

"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder
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sdon
= Cult of Ray =

France
685 Posts

Posted - 11/28/2018 :  09:56:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
They are a band, but their (collective) creativity is rather poor unfortunately, except for some flashes. Sure, BF still can come up with great chord progressions and lyrics (more on IC than HC), sure Joey can compose great riffs. But something is missing. They do not challenge themselves as much as before, they have lost their avant-gardist take and make do with what's comfortable for them.
I think Kim's contribution was much more than 2 songs out of 5 albums. She was the muse AND the critic, she was the one who pushed BF to excel and to trash average songs. In addition to having a huge stage presence.
I've been in bands, I know some members can be a pain in the ass to work with, but geniuses all the same. I think Kim's solo work or some of her Breeders songs have kept that indie vibe that Pixies have lost. If they could all grow up, and acknowledge and accept their respective strengths and weaknesses, they could be once again the greatest rock band alive.





--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

1781 Posts

Posted - 11/28/2018 :  11:08:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sdon

They are a band, but their (collective) creativity is rather poor unfortunately, except for some flashes. Sure, BF still can come up with great chord progressions and lyrics (more on IC than HC), sure Joey can compose great riffs. But something is missing. They do not challenge themselves as much as before, they have lost their avant-gardist take and make do with what's comfortable for them.
I think Kim's contribution was much more than 2 songs out of 5 albums. She was the muse AND the critic, she was the one who pushed BF to excel and to trash average songs. In addition to having a huge stage presence.
I've been in bands, I know some members can be a pain in the ass to work with, but geniuses all the same. I think Kim's solo work or some of her Breeders songs have kept that indie vibe that Pixies have lost. If they could all grow up, and acknowledge and accept their respective strengths and weaknesses, they could be once again the greatest rock band alive.





--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"



I want to agree with you sdon, but how does this explain 2004-2013, bam thwok, etc?

It seems like they were willing to give her creative leadership or at least co-leadership of 2.0 and she didn’t do anything to speak of with it. Am I wrong?
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =

USA
621 Posts

Posted - 11/28/2018 :  12:47:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sdon

I think Kim's contribution was much more than 2 songs out of 5 albums. She was the muse AND the critic, she was the one who pushed BF to excel and to trash average songs.


I just don't know if this is an accurate assessment of Kim's actual role in Pixies, or just what many of us might project her role to have been.

As more time goes by, I am really starting to feel that the band was always 98% FBF's creative artistry (in terms of the basic songwriting), and that Kim realized fairly early on that she was not a true creative foil as you describe.

It galled her a little, then a lot, and eventually she was completely over it, and threw all her creative efforts into the Breeders, Amps, etc...

That's why she only was interested in rejoining the group if it was an oldies act. She REALLY didn't want to be put in the same position she had been in before in terms of writing new material.

She knows FBF's style of bandleading as well if not better than anyone. It doesn't mesh with her in terms of collaboration.

She saved herself a lot of heartbreak and arguments by bowing out when she did in Wales. The rest of the guys know it, and while they were hurt and blindsided, they realized very quickly it was a gift.

I think it is highly likely the notion of Kim and FBF being some sort of incredibly unique creative duo is little more than a nice myth, fueled by the fact that both of them choose to not say much of anything at all about their respective creative processes, and the fact that they both know it feeds the Pixies lore.

Kim back in the band does NOT equal new amazing Pixies songs.

Kim back in the band equals countdown to inevitable implosion.

Just my .02, for whatever they may be worth.



--

"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder
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Discoking
= Cult of Ray =

Belgium
812 Posts

Posted - 11/28/2018 :  22:22:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sdon

But something is missing. They do not challenge themselves as much as before, they have lost their avant-gardist take and make do with what's comfortable for them.
I think Kim's contribution was much more than 2 songs out of 5 albums. She was the muse AND the critic, she was the one who pushed BF to excel and to trash average songs.


or maybe they're not making that type of music anymore because they're a lot older than they were before? maybe it has very little to do with kim?

(i don't know.)


it's educational
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1694 Posts

Posted - 11/28/2018 :  23:50:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You can't recreate a cult or a myth anyway.

To me, Pixies 2.0 is like if the Beatles had reunited in the 80s. Of course it wouldn't have been the same. Good, probably, but not the same. It's impossible.

Pixies 2.0 were not Pixies from the 80's-90s, with or without Kim ! I agree with Pete Radiator.

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Edited by - picpic on 11/28/2018 23:50:56
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

1781 Posts

Posted - 11/29/2018 :  04:08:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Agree with whoever said 1.0 was 98% Frank.

You’ll sleep better at night once you stop calling these guys the Pixies. Frank and Friends has a nice sound

(Reminds me die hard frank fans and nominal Pixies fans both have their issues with 2.0).

Whatever, it’s him making music
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QuaBear
- FB Fan -

USA
13 Posts

Posted - 11/29/2018 :  06:07:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm with sdon...sure, the songs were written and credited by Charles, and yeh, Charles was "the guy" i suppose, but I really don't think you can put a percentage on it...Kim added a huge portion, as did Dave and Joey...they were a group, they were a band...how do you know how much percentage is what? I'm not a 'No Kim No Deal' person, but surely I think, at least in my eyes, it's pretty apparent that the Pixies were something else in the late 80s....and 2.0 is something else as well....and kudos to them for continuing without Kim Deal, granted, i personally don't think the new music is stellar, but kudos to them...

Edited by - QuaBear on 11/29/2018 10:27:11
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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

1781 Posts

Posted - 11/29/2018 :  10:53:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think it's safe to say just about no one thinks that 2.0 is better, or maybe even as good, as 1.0. We agree on that?

What we disagree on is why that's the case.

No Kim?

No youth?

No magic?

Compression?

A combination of everything?
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1694 Posts

Posted - 11/29/2018 :  11:09:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug

The News really wants to make news of this. Are a lot of fans still thinking about this?


Mhhh... Look at this thread !

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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

1781 Posts

Posted - 11/29/2018 :  15:45:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by picpic

quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug

The News really wants to make news of this. Are a lot of fans still thinking about this?


Mhhh... Look at this thread !

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Only cuz no one else is talking about anything else.

We *could* have a conversation about the meaning of plastic crucifix or any other number of more interesting things...
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yarbles
= Cult of Ray =

USA
538 Posts

Posted - 11/29/2018 :  20:19:57  Show Profile  Visit yarbles's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hey Bedbug, what do you think the meaning of plastic crucifix is?
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *

Belgium
1694 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2018 :  01:57:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah anyway. Kim fans can still listen to Bagboy and hear her (uncredited) chorus

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Bedbug
* Dog in the Sand *

1781 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2018 :  05:42:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by yarbles

Hey Bedbug, what do you think the meaning of plastic crucifix is?



Pretty powerful juxtaposition of something that is supposed to be really meaningful with something that is very easily disposable.

That's just like, my opinion, man.
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