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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3147 Posts |
 Posted - 06/21/2018 : 10:27:17
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Why would you buy vinyl records in 2018?
Why would you buy a reissued vinyl record of Doolittle instead of finding an original?
How do you find room to store all these giant albums in your apartment?
Why is vinyl everywhere in 2018?
Is this like when I see a kid listening to a Walkman or playing original Gameboy? Just being novel / ironic?
Please explain to an old grouch who doesn’t get it. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2018 : 10:44:41
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I once passed off a copy of Doolittle in 1993 in a £1 vinyl clearout sale. My mate found it and offered it to me, but I let him have it.
Didn't matter anyway because I pawned my vinyl collection a few years ago, after losing a band hand at poker.
One less box of shit to carry around. I miss some of those records, but what is the point in owning them if I never played them or even had a record player to play them on?
I reckon it's a myth that vinyl sounds better. How can it be better than modern digital technology? Because of the scratches and hisses you hear at the start? Speakers are more important maybe?
It's the same argument that was presented recently about Gibson guitars. They don't really sound any better than a cheap copy played through a nice expensive amp.
I remember dreaming about being able to carry all my albums about with me and my Sanyo cassette walkman. Now we have that, why the fuck would we need any more plastic? There's also an environmental issue.
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Edited by - pot on 06/21/2018 10:47:18 |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3147 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2018 : 08:50:58
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I have still yet to see any physical form of Head Carrier with my own eyes; no vinyl, no tape, no cd.
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danjersey
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
2792 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2018 : 16:47:03
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| It's about spending time. I don't have a set up for spinning records, no cabinets on my wood floor, no levels to adjust, wish I did. "Time.... if he could travel time...." but alas, I'm a modern man. |
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Discoking
* Dog in the Sand *
Belgium
1120 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2018 : 23:23:21
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i have head carrier on different colours of vinyl: black, pink, green.
 it's educational |
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Sam
= Cult of Ray =
Ireland
514 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2018 : 22:47:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
Why would you buy vinyl records in 2018?
How do you find room to store all these giant albums in your apartment?
Because MP3s and MP4 files are so damn tinny and weak sounding.
No depth, no levels, just a horribly thinned out version of a beautiful production reduced to a 3mb file with very little distinction between instrumentation.
Listening to good vinyl vs lossy files is no comparison.
As for storage, aluminum alphabetized flight cases.
Also I like to make sure that the artil has full recompense for the work they have produced and CDs are shitty and files are lossy and weak sounding.
PS Vinyl is everywhere because Vinyl sounds better and its a richer experience.
PPS Check your ears for waxy deposits.
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2018 : 00:54:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Sam
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
Why would you buy vinyl records in 2018?
How do you find room to store all these giant albums in your apartment?
Because MP3s and MP4 files are so damn tinny and weak sounding.
No depth, no levels, just a horribly thinned out version of a beautiful production reduced to a 3mb file with very little distinction between instrumentation.
Listening to good vinyl vs lossy files is no comparison.
As for storage, aluminum alphabetized flight cases.
Also I like to make sure that the artil has full recompense for the work they have produced and CDs are shitty and files are lossy and weak sounding.
PS Vinyl is everywhere because Vinyl sounds better and its a richer experience.
PPS Check your ears for waxy deposits.
Some mp3s sound terrible, but it depends on the bitrate. 320kbps or Lossless FLAC produces a pretty decent sound to my ears, through good speakers. I don't see how modern high quality digital encoding isn't as good as, or better than analog vinyl?
The only difference that I can tell is digital is perfectly clean and doesn't produce any of the crackles and hisses that vinyl lovers seem to be so nostalgic about.
I challenge your hypothesis and propose that the "nothing is better than vinyl" mantra is nothing more than a myth derived from a nostalgic attachment people have to the format. |
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Sam
= Cult of Ray =
Ireland
514 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2018 : 02:52:52
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quote:
Originally posted by pot
quote:
Originally posted by Sam
quote:
Originally posted by Bedbug
Why would you buy vinyl records in 2018?
How do you find room to store all these giant albums in your apartment?
Because MP3s and MP4 files are so damn tinny and weak sounding.
No depth, no levels, just a horribly thinned out version of a beautiful production reduced to a 3mb file with very little distinction between instrumentation.
Listening to good vinyl vs lossy files is no comparison.
As for storage, aluminum alphabetized flight cases.
Also I like to make sure that the artil has full recompense for the work they have produced and CDs are shitty and files are lossy and weak sounding.
PS Vinyl is everywhere because Vinyl sounds better and its a richer experience.
PPS Check your ears for waxy deposits.
Some mp3s sound terrible, but it depends on the bitrate. 320kbps or Lossless FLAC produces a pretty decent sound to my ears, through good speakers. I don't see how modern high quality digital encoding isn't as good as, or better than analog vinyl?
The only difference that I can tell is digital is perfectly clean and doesn't produce any of the crackles and hisses that vinyl lovers seem to be so nostalgic about.
I challenge your hypothesis and propose that the "nothing is better than vinyl" mantra is nothing more than a myth derived from a nostalgic attachment people have to the format.
Well lossless FLAC will be perfect because as the name suggests none of the normal file compression is applied.
Its horses for courses and whatever you are having yourself really.
Personally for me Vinyl is a fantastic and there's nothing hipster or trendy about it. Simply personal enjoyment of music. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2018 : 03:08:22
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Nothing wrong with vinyl, apart from the environmental issues. It's a lovely format, just not practical for my purposes these days: that of being a music glutton and living in a small house and wanting to listen to anything in my collection on a whim, anywhere I am when I am away from the house.
My main argument though is based on the question: from a physics/sound engineering point of view, how much information about the music recorded can be printed onto an analogue vinyl plate compared to a more or less unlimited number of binary digits on a computer? |
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Sam
= Cult of Ray =
Ireland
514 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2018 : 03:40:28
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quote:
Originally posted by pot
My main argument though is based on the question: from a physics/sound engineering point of view, how much information about the music recorded can be printed onto an analogue vinyl plate compared to a more or less unlimited number of binary digits on a computer?
Yeh i'll agree its cumbersome and takes storage but I only collect my very favourite artists, so a lot of incidental stuff i'll happily listen to on mp3 when travelling etc.
The vinyl comes out for house parties and drinks with friends where the richness can be really appreciated.
When it comes to % of high and low end frequencies lost via compression, I cant give you that and amn't really a science buff so that doesn't hold a huge amount of interest for me.
I know what I hear though and I love music, and the feeling you get is just much more satisfying. That dopamine sponge is fully squeezed when listening to vinyl, with mp3 its just not as satisfying. There are tonnnes of articles on the loudness wars, vinyl versus digital etc.
I think FBF must have similar opinions about analogue vs digital, considering a lot of the Catholics output was purely live to 2 track.
I wish he would record that way with the Pixies now.
Some of the best Pixies recorded material to my ears is their work on the peel sessions and BBC recordings in Maida Vale.
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Edited by - Sam on 07/05/2018 03:43:33 |
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *
Belgium
1874 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2018 : 04:22:53
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Vinyl became technically outdated the day the first CD was shipped.
I think vinyl enthousiasts probably like the warmth of the vinyl sound, the nice packagings, and the awkward charm of the little ceremony that goes along.
I personaly like the sound of the vinyl, but it definitely doesn't sound as good as FLACs or even Spotify in high quality mode. I just stream everything from my IPad to a cheap chinese FX-AUDIO D802C amp that drives my old Celestion 66 british speakers. It has the warmth of the vinyl sound (thanks to the speaker heavy bass response) and the transparency of those little digital amplifiers. Pretty nice combo. But I keep my turntable for style. It's a cute little Pro-ject Debut manual turntable. Pro-ject makes some nice turntables.
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2018 : 04:36:34
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| I'm sure you could pretty accurately 99.9% reformat the sound of a vinyl record exactly onto digital format, but you couldn't necessarilly do it the other way round? |
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *
Belgium
1874 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2018 : 07:41:12
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Nope. LP sound reproduction has many flaws related to the technology involved. First the mechanical aspect of the reading process ("wow" and "flutter" problems if i remember correctly). Then the way LP records amust be equalized during the recording process (bass needs to be reduced and treble needs to be boosted to avoid problems with the record grooves) and then the opposite equalization is done by the phono preamp of your amplifier at playback. I'm no expert, but I think you probably lose something in the sound in the process.
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2018 : 10:15:29
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I love vinyl. I have since the first time I played a record, probably at 5 or 6. I started building the collection probably when i was around 14, in 1994-95. Asking for records for birthdays/ Christmas, buying with allowance then with pay from my first job. Just always really loved the aesthetic, the mechanical aspect of it - it’s just cool.
I have somewhere around 1300-1400 albums and box sets, probably another 300 45s. The bulk were bought before things got too crazy with the current market. You’ll never catch me dead at a Record Store Day. It has gotten a little out of hand, but at the same time, it’s handy for folks like me that always wanted certain albums that are just way too rare and expensive, that are now being repressed.
I listen to vinyl probably 60-70% of the time. In many cases it sounds better, in that it is far more open and dynamic sounding, richer, etc. my system is also kind of optimized for it, so there’s that. I also have a really great CD player that, depending on the CD vs the vinyl in question, matches or surpasses the vinyl. Lossless files sound great on the computer headphones relative to streaming or other files, but if I run them from the computer to the stereo, they don’t hold up to vinyl or CD. Again, this is because I have a pretty fantastic turntable and stylus, and a good CD player, both of which smoke the puny little sound hardware in my macbook.
At the end of the day, I can’t sit here and lay out some blanket statement that vinyl always trumps digital. It doesn’t, and that’s silly. Now, as long as it’s not beat up, vinyl will almost always beat lossy file, easily, It gets a lot more situational when we’re talking CD, FLAC, etc. personally, I just love records. Same reason someone would tool around in a ‘72 Trans Am vs a new Mustang, is it as fast, efficient, comfortable, safe, or practical? No, objectively not. To a certain type of person though, is it cooler, more stylish, and more fun? Yeah, no doubt.
And I’m definitely not a hipster.
Take me to the vineyards of Lavaux
Want to see the mountains where the waters flow |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2018 : 10:13:10
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I'm not sure what "wow" and "flutter" are in the context of just sound apart from the words or crowds and birds. Heard of those terms before. Is it not maybe the case that people are in love with (as well as the nice size of a 12" sleeve and record) the sound that music makes when it's recorded onto vinyl, as opposed to the sound of music through vinyl if you know what I mean?
I guess sound engineering, like all branches of engineering have their subtle tricks of the trade, unconventional ways of making things sound good or translating sound or just mediums or energy from one thing into the other. You can't record anything without changing it in some way
If that's the case then I think vinyl should be reclassifed as an instrument. Oops sorry, of course it already has because hip hip, you know what I'm saying, play the disc and don't think too much about it. Be grateful for Moore's law. |
Edited by - pot on 07/10/2018 11:00:33 |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2018 : 15:19:11
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quote:
Originally posted by pot
I'm not sure what "wow" and "flutter" are in the context of just sound apart from the words or crowds and birds. Heard of those terms before. Is it not maybe the case that people are in love with (as well as the nice size of a 12" sleeve and record) the sound that music makes when it's recorded onto vinyl, as opposed to the sound of music through vinyl if you know what I mean?
Wow and Flutter are basically artifacts of tape. Probably most music you like recorded before the mid 90s has it inherent in the original recording. It’s part of what makes it sound good. A lot of recordings add it digitally on purpose now just to get that sound. It’s more of a tape phenomenon though. Vinyl just captures it as the tape produced it naturally in the studio. CD does the same. If it was originally recorded on tape, it’s there.
Take me to the vineyards of Lavaux
Want to see the mountains where the waters flow |
Edited by - johnnyribcage on 07/10/2018 15:33:20 |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2018 : 18:38:56
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| give me an example that illustrates each if you can |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2018 : 22:06:44
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quote:
Originally posted by pot
give me an example that illustrates each if you can
Just look it up pot! Google is your friend. There is enough on this subject floating around on the internet to choke even the most crazed audiophile. There is no way I could explain it to you better than what is readily available. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3147 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2018 : 08:16:42
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As someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight (but who does have Dog in the Sand), I just want to thank all participants for the education on this.
I remain unmoved, and maybe that's a lesson in and of itself. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2018 : 08:20:55
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| Speaking of which (dog in the sand) I just noticed that I've been promoted to Teenager of the Year! Wooooo... bring on the dancing girls. |
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picpic
* Dog in the Sand *
Belgium
1874 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2018 : 10:08:06
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quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage
Wow and Flutter are basically artifacts of tape. Probably most music you like recorded before the mid 90s has it inherent in the original recording. It’s part of what makes it sound good.
Yep that was my point. Most people like amps/speakers/medias often because of sound artifacts that makes them sound "good" (as opposed to "hi-fi"). That's why I love my old british speakers. Warthm. Heavy bass. Comfy kind of sound. (event if I still prefer using Spofity premium in high resolution because I have all the music I want at the tip of my finger).
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3147 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2019 : 15:23:09
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I bought FB and TOTY today on Vinyl. Reissues of course. I don't have a record player and never plan on getting one. I got them to hang on my wall, along my one other vinyl record, Ween the Pod.
The clerk at the record store asked me if I had heard BTE. I said I was listening to it right now. He said he was pleasantly surprised at how good it was, as he didn't like the last two. He also said that there had been an uptick in Frank Black activity on spotify, with some of his solo albums appearing recently that hadn't been there for a while. He said he had been looking for one of Frank's songs in particular for some time and was glad he was finally able to find it, In the Time of My Ruin. It was a pretty cool conversation. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6214 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2019 : 21:44:26
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That's a deep cut! Record stores are fun
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2019 : 23:43:56
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| I stopped buying vinyl several years ago when it became apparent that I only ever end up losing it or having to sell it when I lose money on a hand at poker. |
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2019 : 04:50:12
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For about ten years in my 20s and 30s, I was the biggest vinyl die hard. It was almost all that I bought. VERY little of the music that I cared about wasn't on vinyl (Frank's new stuff was a rare exception). If I had to pay extra for it or search harder for it, I was willing to do that. I was never much into the "audiophile" arguments. I mostly just liked that it looked cool and felt cool. I liked its "flaws". A little surface noise was fine with me.
Today though, I'm an old fuckface AAAAAAAAAND...
I really like CDs now.
The devil has claimed my soul. The "no fuss" aspects of CDs appeal me more and more as I spiral toward decrepitude. Also, they don't show up warped in the mail. (I had a record that I was really looking forward to show up unplayably warped last year. So annoying!)
I never thought that this would happen, but it did.
As for vinyl's popularity it's because the world of digital has made CDs useless for most people. Meanwhile, vinyl has and always will have, massive collector interest. Its fragility, its visual impressiveness and its often limited pressings make it hugely attractive.
Me though, I kinda like the uncoolness of CDs. A CD collection today is like a Member's Only jacket. Fine with me. I don't care.
I can't go digital. I'm old school. I like a physical disc. I like a package with credits and artwork. I'm stuck on it. |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3147 Posts |
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Discoking
* Dog in the Sand *
Belgium
1120 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2020 : 07:22:01
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i'm sure there will be other ways to listen to those two new songs.
everything gets at least a digital release in the end. (see: women of war, eyrie demos)
it's educational |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3147 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2020 : 00:16:42
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| Of course. I thought maybe it would be just on vinyl for a while |
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Troubles A Foot
= Cult of Ray =
USA
955 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2020 : 07:42:12
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Yeah. I've had two record players and both just suck. I have an amazing 5.1 sound system but records sound awful. No bass, really sharp and trebly to my ears, like coming out of a tin can. I've tried asking reddit vinyl nerds for advice, they said buy a better needle. So I did. No help. A lot of them said buy a more expensive record player. Well you know? All CDs and all MP3s sound the same no matter what price I spend on the thing that plays them.
So yeah, I don't understand vinyl either at this point, except to hang on my wall. |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3147 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2020 : 06:13:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
Yeah. I've had two record players and both just suck. I have an amazing 5.1 sound system but records sound awful. No bass, really sharp and trebly to my ears, like coming out of a tin can. I've tried asking reddit vinyl nerds for advice, they said buy a better needle. So I did. No help. A lot of them said buy a more expensive record player. Well you know? All CDs and all MP3s sound the same no matter what price I spend on the thing that plays them.
So yeah, I don't understand vinyl either at this point, except to hang on my wall.
With you all the way on this. Wall hangers and nothing more. |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2021 : 15:48:33
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Just got my first FB album on vinyl — Honeycomb. The record itself is honey-colored and semi-transparent. And it sounds great on my newly acquired hi-fi system (Yamaha amp with integrated DAC, old Yamaha turntable, pair of pricey, Scottish-built speakers). But does it sound better than the digitally streamed lossless version? Yes and no. If I stream Honeycomb on Apple (lossless version), it's definitely a more perfect sound. They've come so far with digital and streaming. But there's just something about records — the routine of pulling them out of their sleeve and starting up the record player, and the crackles and pops of even the most pristine record — that makes for a truly wonderful listening experience. I don't understand why some people debate vinyl vs. digital. They each have their advantages, and a great album can sound great either way. It just depends on what you feel like in a given moment.
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If all you see is violins, then I make a plea in their defense. |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2021 : 15:11:51
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p.s. My vinyl Honeycomb already has a scratch, and now Sing for Joy skips. Argh. I guess I need to find some way to embrace the flaw.
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If all you see is violins, then I make a plea in their defense. |
Edited by - coastline on 10/11/2021 15:15:51 |
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Bedbug
> Teenager of the Year <
3147 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2021 : 04:41:32
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quote:
Originally posted by coastline
p.s. My vinyl Honeycomb already has a scratch, and now Sing for Joy skips. Argh. I guess I need to find some way to embrace the flaw.
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If all you see is violins, then I make a plea in their defense.
Aww, man, that’s frustrating. Sorry Coastline
I wonder how that can be avoided 100% of the time; probably can’t. Maybe there are restorative techniques?
I imagine when a vintage vinyl gets a scratch it’s a big deal to the collector |
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Vinyl Fans Please Explain
