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OLDMANOTY
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
469 Posts |
 Posted - 08/12/2016 : 11:58:14
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I didn't like the more 'conventional' songwriting approach & live to 2 track thing at the time. In fact, I think my first posts here were all about how disappointed I was with the Catholics & post TOTY stuff in general. Over the years, though, I've grown to love it all - it slowly clicked if that's not a contradiction in terms.
Anyway, I was listening for the first time in ages to the 1st Catholics album on youtube of all places. It sounded fresh & vital, as if it was recorded yesterday. I've always wondered how it would've turned out if Rick Rubin had produced it as originally planned. Thoughts? |
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Arm Arm Arm
* Dog in the Sand *
1037 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2016 : 14:19:15
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I didn't care for the first Catholics album; too many midtempo numbers, and it felt a bit bland. I think I listened to maybe four or five of the songs and the rest I ignored. Years later I gave it a listen and thought it was great! I know, that never happens with Frank.
Now I think it's a really good album, second in sound quality perhaps only to Dog in the Sand, with both interesting songs and a shift in his songwriting approach. For someone who embraced cliche (to paraphrase), Frank still managed to offer up some interesting songs.
Amazing that the alphabetical track listing works so well...I never realized till someone pointed it out on here, I think.
The very end of the album recalls the Green Acres beginning, an informality that's charming, much like the intro to Bullet.
cheers |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2016 : 16:06:11
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I'm a little bummed that the box set cuts the Green Acres beginning and the false ending.
- Brian |
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Arm Arm Arm
* Dog in the Sand *
1037 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2016 : 17:38:11
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What?
While I don't like cutting Green Acres it sounds like a financial decision. But the ending? "...better not." Why cut that? |
Edited by - Arm Arm Arm on 08/13/2016 17:38:44 |
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pixiestu
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2564 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2016 : 14:19:07
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Still my favourite Catholics album. The energy is great, and when I say energy I don't just mean the uptempo, guitar driven music, but the chemistry between the musicians playing and recording live. It all adds up to a really great sound. Plus the songs are great. All My Ghosts, Back To Rome, King and Queen of Siam, Suffering, The Man Who Was Too Loud...classics.
"The arc of triumph" |
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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <
Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2016 : 05:04:00
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quote:
Originally posted by OLDMANOTY
I didn't like the more 'conventional' songwriting approach & live to 2 track thing at the time. In fact, I think my first posts here were all about how disappointed I was with the Catholics & post TOTY stuff in general. Over the years, though, I've grown to love it all - it slowly clicked if that's not a contradiction in terms.
Anyway, I was listening for the first time in ages to the 1st Catholics album on youtube of all places. It sounded fresh & vital, as if it was recorded yesterday. I've always wondered how it would've turned out if Rick Rubin had produced it as originally planned. Thoughts?
I'm really looking forward to pete rad's post here.
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Ed is the hoo hoo |
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =
USA
653 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2016 : 06:19:06
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quote:
Originally posted by trobrianders
I'm really looking forward to pete rad's post here.
Oh, man. I really hate to disappoint, but I don't have too much to say.
I love the brown album, and think it's an accidental masterpiece. The kind of magical result of a songwriter and a band not trying too hard to impress anyone other than themselves and the handful of other people in their own close-knit circle of advisors and business partners who would need to hear it to determine when and how to proceed with a much more expensive and (possibly) commercial do-over.
Rick Rubin has shepherded some very interesting and successful albums to fruition, but he's also perhaps far too opinionated and in love with his own mind to wind up being the right kind of foil or guide to someone like FBF, and to that particularly muscular and "step the f u c k off" band.
Honestly, what I wish is that Rubin had been impressed with the demos, and they began full-on multi-tracked album sessions, which broke down due to creative differences, and which then led to the same sort of parting of the ways (and the eventual realization that the 2-Track "roughs" were actually solid gold and the way to go).
That way, the brown album still gets released as it did, FB & The C's still happens as "a thing," and then years later, those aborted album sessions wind up leaking out or being used as rarities on some sort of career spanning boxed set, and we hear two or three odd, unfinished multi-track "Rubinized" sketches for the album that never was.
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"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder |
Edited by - peter radiator on 09/12/2016 06:19:58 |
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Arm Arm Arm
* Dog in the Sand *
1037 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2016 : 06:42:21
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Yeah, I'd like to hear both him and picpic on this record.
It sounds good to me, by the time Do You Feel Bad About It starts it feels like you're on a fun musical journey. I think the Catholics are deceptive, the songs seems a big generic or bland at first but have a lot of interesting things going on in them; took me a while to hear it.
Good album!
cheers |
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Arm Arm Arm
* Dog in the Sand *
1037 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2016 : 06:43:29
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| Ha ha, didn't see his post; I guess now I'd like to read picpic's take on this! |
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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <
Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2016 : 00:18:07
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quote:
Originally posted by peter radiator
quote:
Originally posted by trobrianders
I'm really looking forward to pete rad's post here.
Oh, man. I really hate to disappoint, but I don't have too much to say.
I love the brown album, and think it's an accidental masterpiece. The kind of magical result of a songwriter and a band not trying too hard to impress anyone other than themselves and the handful of other people in their own close-knit circle of advisors and business partners who would need to hear it to determine when and how to proceed with a much more expensive and (possibly) commercial do-over.
Rick Rubin has shepherded some very interesting and successful albums to fruition, but he's also perhaps far too opinionated and in love with his own mind to wind up being the right kind of foil or guide to someone like FBF, and to that particularly muscular and "step the f u c k off" band.
Honestly, what I wish is that Rubin had been impressed with the demos, and they began full-on multi-tracked album sessions, which broke down due to creative differences, and which then led to the same sort of parting of the ways (and the eventual realization that the 2-Track "roughs" were actually solid gold and the way to go).
That way, the brown album still gets released as it did, FB & The C's still happens as "a thing," and then years later, those aborted album sessions wind up leaking out or being used as rarities on some sort of career spanning boxed set, and we hear two or three odd, unfinished multi-track "Rubinized" sketches for the album that never was.
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"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder
You know what pete I wasn't aware of a lot of that so no you didn't disappoint at all. My overall impression is yeah I'm glad it worked out the way it did. I have to admit I'm one of those idiots that lamented Frank had stopped releasing Pixies type music and it took participation in this forum from 2006 onwards to take a second listen and realise the Brown album was in fact solid gold.
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Ed is the hoo hoo |
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Arm Arm Arm
* Dog in the Sand *
1037 Posts |
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Arm Arm Arm
* Dog in the Sand *
1037 Posts |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2016 : 15:57:16
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Man that first album is great. Like a baptism after Cult, which stands in my book as easily the weakest album with FBF's name attached to it. Front to back it's just pure, raw, great rock. I love the mid-tempo stuff, which FBF does particularly well and seems to really like doing. Hell Bossanova is the one he always cites as his favorite Pixies, and it's loaded with mid-tempo stuff. I think that's why a lot of folks don't care for it. There are a lot of classics on that first album though. Makes me want to throw it on!...
Take me to the vineyards of Lavaux
Want to see the mountains where the waters flow |
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Arm Arm Arm
* Dog in the Sand *
1037 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2016 : 18:43:13
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I love The Cult of Ray. It's an amazing rock album, and a nice change of pace from the wonderful sprawl of Teenager, with not one but two incredible instrumentals. And Kicked In The Taco, Dance War...the title track. Some of Frank's most rocking songs.
Of course, if you love the mid-tempo I can see why it's not your thing. I'm not really a fan of mid-tempo generally but the songwriting on FB& the C's is good enough to trump the tempo issue.
cheers |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2016 : 11:53:56
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Yeah I don't think tempo has anything to do with my low ranking of Cult. I'm an equal opportunity tempo kind of guy :P
I think something seems really off about the production of Cult, but also the songwriting has always struck me as really forced or something. I return to it once a year or so to see if it is clicking. I haven't checked it out lately so maybe I'm due for another shot. I think the one thing that throws this album off for me more than anything is the overbaked lead guitar, trying to hard to be weird. Plus it's mixed so so so loud in that left channel.
I'm not saying it's a 'bad' album per se, there are a few tracks that are basically essential FBF as far as I'm concerned. The Marsist is fantastic, even with the silly lead work. Men in Black is great, as is Punk Rock, Creature Crawling, and Dance War is pretty sweet. Most of the rest kind of just leaves me flat for whatever reason. Like I said I'll go back and give it another try.
So again, not a 'bad' album, but it just doesn't stack up to the rest in my opinion.
Take me to the vineyards of Lavaux
Want to see the mountains where the waters flow |
Edited by - johnnyribcage on 10/02/2016 11:54:44 |
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OLDMANOTY
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
469 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2016 : 01:23:05
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| I like COR a lot now - I think it's aged well but at the time it was a big letdown for me. It seemed 2d compared to TOTY's 3d, a flat/dry production, some generic sounding songs. I remember rushing home with the cd, sticking it on, and feeling distinctly underwhelmed and disappointed on first listen. |
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Arm Arm Arm
* Dog in the Sand *
1037 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2016 : 06:25:01
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quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage
Yeah I don't think tempo has anything to do with my low ranking of Cult. I'm an equal opportunity tempo kind of guy :P
Ha! Yes, I like mid-tempo songs too but going from the first three albums fully stocked with fast moving songs it was quite the disappointment. Sure, some songs stood out but I didn't get into others for a while, and then all of a sudden the album opened up to me.
How could I have not heard how great Solid Gold is? Dog Gone? The rest of the record?
But as others have noted, that's how it frequently goes with Frank's music.
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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *
1334 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2016 : 08:03:16
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quote:
Originally posted by OLDMANOTY
I like COR a lot now - I think it's aged well but at the time it was a big letdown for me. It seemed 2d compared to TOTY's 3d, a flat/dry production, some generic sounding songs. I remember rushing home with the cd, sticking it on, and feeling distinctly underwhelmed and disappointed on first listen.
Similar to my experience except I was completely and utterly gutted and it took a long time (this forum and DITS) before I came back to Frank. I still don't like COR (and am not nuts about Orange and Pistelero) but every thing form DITS to SMYT, fantastic |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2016 : 10:24:07
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Originally posted by Broken Face
I'm a little bummed that the box set cuts the Green Acres beginning and the false ending.
- Brian
Really? Fuck that! |
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pixiestu
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2564 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2016 : 12:49:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Carl
quote:
Originally posted by Broken Face
I'm a little bummed that the box set cuts the Green Acres beginning and the false ending.
- Brian
Really? Fuck that!
My sentiments exactly. Suppose it's rare I'll actually listen to the box set version though.
I feel more disappointed for anyone who hears this before the original. The Green Acres beginning actually added a lot. That 'real' feeling that you're about to listen to a bunch of musicians playing live together in a room, which is what this album is all about.
"The arc of triumph" |
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Catholics 1st album
