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pixie punk
> Teenager of the Year <
2923 Posts |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
 Posted - 12/04/2013 : 18:31:33
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| Interesting read, thanks pixie punk! |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1020 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2013 : 07:26:46
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| I hate to keep beating the dead horse on this, but it is blatantly incorrect that the album format is dead. Pop fans buy singles, rock fans still listen to albums. |
Edited by - Brank_Flack on 12/05/2013 07:27:33 |
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McDutchie
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
269 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2013 : 07:51:13
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| Yeah, I wondered about that. I generally buy albums, albeit from iTunes (I'm quite happy not to have to bother with discs of any kind). But, at nearly 40, I figured I'm just old. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6217 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2013 : 09:09:51
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Lorde (16) made a coherent album, because she likes albums.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2013 : 09:28:49
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Albums are definitely not dead, and will never be to me. I'm old school as hell though (I have over 750 LPs and that's how I listen to probably 90% of music), so maybe I'm the wrong guy to ask. I will say that most of the people who are into the Pixies probably prefer albums because the Pixies are in fact - old school. They're an old band, and they have a lot of old fans, and they like albums. Just my 2 cents.
Dial 1-888-RIB-CAGE for your free Bag Boy instruction manual. |
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Brank_Flack
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1020 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2013 : 09:42:40
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| People in their twenties listen to albums too. Young people who like indie music hover around indie blogs which in turn emphasize indie albums. Add that to the vinyl resurgence and it shows that young people who like indie/rock music still listen to albums. They might not buy albums but they still listen to albums. It is just drivel from middle-age media types that young people don't listen to albums anymore, and its frustrating that the Pixies have bought into that narrative. It is 100% true for pop fans or casual music fans, and because of that the media has assumed it is that way for all music. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6217 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2013 : 10:20:29
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Lorde is a pop star. Lady Gaga is a pop star. Kanye is a pop star. They make albums.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken? |
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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *
1335 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2013 : 10:25:04
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I don't buy this argument being put out that the reason they went for EPs is because the album is dead. Charles veered much closer to the truth in an earlier interview when he said they wanted to avoid the big comeback album drama. That's sounds like a much more legit reason. Plus the EP does give them the chance to test the water as it were with the new music (and that was not a blinding success - I mean the EP not the music).
The Pixies fanbase is (largely) not your casual listener downloading a song or two. They own all the albums and know the words (or at least vocal sounds) to all the songs. I've been listening to the Pixies since 1988. My other faves in those days that have stayed with me are the Beatles, Zep, Smiths, Specials. But even after all these years I could not tell you the correct song order for most of their albums. But every Pixies tracklist is imprinted on my brain like DNA. I would never forget them till the day I die. I'm sure that's the same for lots of fans I've met. And if a new one album came out tomorrow the same thing would happen again. |
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IBreed
= Cult of Ray =
310 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2013 : 11:26:24
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
Lorde is a pop star. Lady Gaga is a pop star. Kanye is a pop star. They make albums.
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BF: Mag ik Engels spreken?
bingo. and if we're really in an era of impermanence, why not buck the trend?
older people tend to have this perception of people in my generation- that we don't listen to albums and otherwise lack an attention span. it's infuriating. it's almost like they're trying to force the idea to make it true.
the reality isn't generational. it's that people who didn't care about albums in 67 don't have to care about albums in '13, because itunes and youtube and piratebay exist. the mindset hasn't changed, just the technology. people who would have cared about albums in 65 will care about albums in 2025.
so the album is only dead when artists officially give up on it. and we know the pixies haven't artistically... frank sees the '12 songs as a work. it's just bad advice and out of touch managers making bullshit calls that are clouding the issue.
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IBreed
= Cult of Ray =
310 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2013 : 11:29:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Sprite
I don't buy this argument being put out that the reason they went for EPs is because the album is dead. Charles veered much closer to the truth in an earlier interview when he said they wanted to avoid the big comeback album drama. That's sounds like a much more legit reason. Plus the EP does give them the chance to test the water as it were with the new music (and that was not a blinding success - I mean the EP not the music).
The Pixies fanbase is (largely) not your casual listener downloading a song or two. They own all the albums and know the words (or at least vocal sounds) to all the songs. I've been listening to the Pixies since 1988. My other faves in those days that have stayed with me are the Beatles, Zep, Smiths, Specials. But even after all these years I could not tell you the correct song order for most of their albums. But every Pixies tracklist is imprinted on my brain like DNA. I would never forget them till the day I die. I'm sure that's the same for lots of fans I've met. And if a new one album came out tomorrow the same thing would happen again.
totally. for a band who does "album tours" to tout that the album is dead is ludicrous. and sad.
i also agree that the real reason is avoiding the comeback album. a shame. look at swans and my bloody valentine. they did wonderfully. all it takes is great, authentic music.
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Arm Arm Arm
* Dog in the Sand *
1037 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2013 : 12:19:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Sprite
But even after all these years I could not tell you the correct song order for most of their albums. But every Pixies tracklist is imprinted on my brain like DNA. I would never forget them till the day I die. I'm sure that's the same for lots of fans I've met. And if a new one album came out tomorrow the same thing would happen again.
After I first heard Trompe Le Monde (which I instantly loved) I'd be doing something while trying to run through the song order in my head; being annoyed with myself if I couldn't get it right. What a nerd!
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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *
1335 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2013 : 13:01:17
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| Actually I have to make confession, I did used to get U-Mass and Head On swapped around for a year or two. But I never liked their version of Head On. Automatic was a fave album of mine before Trompe came out so when it did I didn't think it was an improvement on the original, although lot's of people do. But I would have loved to hear them do a cover of Coast to Coast. That is an immense tune. |
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1594 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2013 : 15:32:31
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Almost no one bought albums in 1965, everyone bought 45s.
The music was so bad, they were almost all thrown away.
The only thing left is what was sold to people who bought albums,
music by bands that were capable of making an album's worth. |
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bebio
- FB Fan -
13 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2013 : 17:00:23
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A few years ago, a guy who was a huge vinyl collector (although he only bought mostly mainstream stuff) died and more than 400 vinyls in his collection ended up in my lap, without me asking for it, or even having known the guy (it came through relatives that knew him, and knew that I listened to a lot of music, and thus thought it was appropriate to give me the stuff they were not interested in). It turns out I was not that interested in it either. I was just a few months away from moving out permanently to a far away country, and was actually selling my own vinyl collection in flea markets and record stores. This guy's collection has all of the mainstream stuff that was all the rage from the 60's to the late 80's, but mostly turned towards European artists. A lot of those artists, I had never heard of, but there were some famous albums as well (adrian belew, bee gees etc). My dad happened to be in town on that period, and he recognized almost all of the artists in that collection, said they were on the radio all the time when he was young. Turns out most of them were one-hit wonders or at least "short-lived wonders" that made a big splash and faded away quickly.
I would say from a rough guess that less than 20% of those vinyls were albums. All the rest were singles, movie soundtracks and lots of compilation albums from several hit artists. For the mainstream folks (which is the majority), the album format has never meant that much, and this was just as valid in the 60's, 70's and 80's as it is today. It made me realize that just like today, there were tremendous tons of forgettable musical garbage being released at that time.
However, it cannot be denied that those who bought albums, became devoted followers of the album format. I certainly like albums, but barring some major exception, I think albums should stick within the 40-50 minute mark. They became far too bloated with the CD format (but this was a good thing for re-editions of classical albums such as the Velvet Underground albums, with lots of juicy bonus tracks).
I wouldn't take Joey's comments at face value. He's not saying that people who like albums are retrogrades or tired old hags. He is saying that for the mainstream crowd, albums are not their major source of concern. I think this has generally been the case throughout the last 40 years, except maybe from the end of the 80's until the end of the last century, when albums might have mattered more to people. Looking at sales, albums certainly don't matter that much now.
This might sound like Joey is trying to dismiss their loyal fanbase, who DO appreciate albums very much, but I certainly don't see it that way. The Pixies have launched an EP in the past, and they are certainly entitled to do so again. I will consume their music in any format they choose, as long as I like it.
To finish my tale, at the last minute I was freaked out about how to get rid of all those records, until a guy who was just an acquaintance knew about my issue, and said he had a friend who wanted to practice the scratching technique and needed as many vinyls as possible to serve as cannon fodder. I gladly put all the vinyls in the trunk of his car and said bye-bye. |
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johnnyribcage
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1301 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2013 : 05:09:05
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quote:
Originally posted by hammerhands
Almost no one bought albums in 1965, everyone bought 45s.
The music was so bad, they were almost all thrown away.
The only thing left is what was sold to people who bought albums,
music by bands that were capable of making an album's worth.
Good call - Brian Wilson pretty much invented the album with Pet Sounds. For rock anyway. Jazz had been doing it for years at that point.
On another note - great comments on this thread in general.
Dial 1-888-RIB-CAGE for your free Bag Boy instruction manual. |
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Arm Arm Arm
* Dog in the Sand *
1037 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2013 : 06:40:09
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Regardless of downloading, I think the album will continue existing because they'll always be those artists who either present a collection of songs with a thematic connection or as a representation of where they were at when they recorded, even if there's no theme or larger idea present.
This whole thing is ironic, not just because of the Doolittle Album Tour (good point Ibreed) but because Frank, be it with Pixies, Catholics or solo, has offered nothing but amazing albums, chock full of great songs, flowing perfectly together. I'm sure at some point, they'll be a new Pixies record and at last I can sit down and enjoy the new songs, of which I've read many opinions but have yet to hear.
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =
USA
653 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2013 : 06:54:43
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I can't help but think that many of those commenting are missing the key point about all of this LP vs. EP vs. digital single format business.
The Pixies are NOT flatly stating that the LP format is dead, or useless, or of no interest to them anymore.
They ARE saying that they appreciate no longer being BOUND to using it.
It's exactly as I posited weeks ago in another thread.
They are embracing the FREEDOM (rock) of not being contractually obliged to deliver a "package" of new music of a pre-determined length that was arbitrarily arrived at decades earlier, and has little bearing on their whims or moods at this time.
They enjoy being UNBURDENED by an obligation to a specific record label that might place restrictions or expectations on them which they might find DATED or OUT-OF-TOUCH and based on old business models.
That is the common theme running through all of FBF's, Dave's, and Joey's comments on this subject.
They have even mentioned the idea that they MIGHT release a full-length LP at some point in the future.
Why must everyone assume that they're being led down some doomed path by the bad influence of an unseen (read: malevolent and/or incompetent) manager?
Why can't fans just grok that COLLECTIVELY (including their manager) they aren't in the MOOD to release an LP, and currently are ENJOYING dividing up their stash of new tracks in shorter blocks, which may very well be either conceptually/thematically linked (in ways which they have not made clear to the public as of yet), or sonically linked (which MIGHT become obvious upon the release of subsequent EPs)?
Jeepers Creeper, Semi-star!
~ Peter Radiator
"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder |
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Arm Arm Arm
* Dog in the Sand *
1037 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2013 : 07:33:03
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What Joey says here gels with your point about being free, Peter:
"We have this idea that the album format is dead. But, I would equate it to just the physical aspect of this. Why is that disc 12 inches? What if it was f—ing 20 inches? What the f— do you do then? " AND HERE TOO: "And now what is the point to hanging on to that? There isn’t."
But when he ends with:
"What do people do now? They are just buying one track at a time. They really don’t care about the album. This is the way we are thinking about music."
I think it adds to the feeling that the band members may be questioning the point of releasing albums at this point in time due to whatever perceptions (accurate or not) that are floating around about the album format.
I think the e.p. release plan and other interviews (that I may have mis-interpreted/remembered), have created the cumulative idea that the Pixies may be doubting the album's validity.
I feel like Frank has some of the trickster in him (Snake?) and between that, the Pixies overall sense of privacy and the unintended possible distortion that can happen in interviews, I don't take this seriously. I just view it as an opportunity for discussion (and a chance to once again spout off how much I love albums) versus any kind of panicked reaction (oh no! No more albums, sobbbb!). Though I really would sob if the album were to die. Which it won't.
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =
USA
653 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2013 : 07:49:03
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Armx3,
I agree with everything you just wrote. :)
~ Peter Radiator
"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder |
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Sprite
* Dog in the Sand *
1335 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2013 : 08:07:16
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Well I remain unconvinced. But just to be clear, I am not moaning that there is no album. I'd prefer an album but am happy with the EPs. I just think the justification for it is bogus. I mean look at this quote.
"What do people do now? They are just buying one track at a time. They really don�t care about the album. This is the way we are thinking about music."
Yeah, maybe Miley Cyrus fans. The idea that the existing Pixies fanbase is browsing for one or two choice cuts to download is plain nonsense.
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IBreed
= Cult of Ray =
310 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2013 : 08:56:06
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Peter, regarding being in the mood to release an LP: “There are people who still have an emotional attachment to the long play format – I’m one of those people, I have a manifesto viewpoint and a great statement to make, so it was difficult to say we’re not going to release the great manifesto,” Charles explains.
as far as your statement that: "The Pixies are NOT flatly stating that the LP format is dead, or useless, or of no interest to them anymore."
except joey has explicitly, unequivocally stated the former point... in the very article you're responding to. he even prefaced the statement with "we", as in, THE PIXIES. joey's broader point about the size of the record being an arbitrary limitation is a bit ridiculous, especially when they're adhering to the idea of an EP, which is such a traditional mode of disseminating music. anyway, they still had to make sure they had enough songs to justify the size and maintain fidelity on the vinyl. there are certain realities you can't escape if you're going with a physical product, which they absolutely are.
again, for all of the bluster about being free, the pixies have done nothing seminal, fun, or even just kinda new with this OLD format. worse, frank doesn't sound super enthusiastic about having his work divided up. they're not free. they've just traded one set of arbitrary decisions for another. |
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Arm Arm Arm
* Dog in the Sand *
1037 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2013 : 13:51:49
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quote:
Originally posted by IBreed
again, for all of the bluster about being free, the pixies have done nothing seminal, fun, or even just kinda new with this OLD format.
Yes. Instead of this riotous release of new music, we've got a trickle. They've even graced audiences with unreleased songs, because a four song e.p. and Bagboy is not enough.
I figured if they did record new music they'd unleash it at once; who cares what the critics will think. Here! New music! No more nostalgia act, good-bye casinos!
Regarding the new music, something feels off about the e.p. approach, perhaps it's because we're all used to Frank's usual way of releasing music.
But at least the concerts seemed like they've been fun.
I hope they take more chances with their live renditions on the next tour. |
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =
USA
653 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2013 : 17:50:00
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IBreed,
I have a feeling you and I just aren't gonna quite see eye to eye on this. Maybe that's as it should be. There's balance in nature.
BTW, I apologize to anyone on these boards if my posts have a tendency to come off as argumentative or snotty. I sure hope they don't. I'm just longwinded and enjoy using the text style options... :)
From where I sit, the Pixies are in fact quite free now.
Free to make decisions about how and when to release their music -- which of late has been in a manner which seems to rub some folks the wrong way and cause them to question both the band's acumen and its viability in the face of such decisions.
The Pixies are NOT locked into anything at this stage, save for what appears to be an announced plan to release at least one more EP in this series. So after that, FBF and the rest can be as Snakey as they want forevermore.
Personally, I wasn't looking to them to do anything particularly "seminal," "fun" or "just kinda new," so I'm not disappointed in the least.
I was only hoping that one day they'd write and record some new songs as a group that they felt comfortable playing live and marketing commercially under the band's name.
They've done exactly that, and I really, really like all of the new material, so I'm pleased as punch.
At the end of the day, I tend to approach the Pixies the way I always encouraged folks to approach one of my old bands:
"Expect nothing and you'll be thrilled."
Which is not to say that I place no expectations of quality or artistic merit on the group.
Rather, that I place no expectations of style, substance, motivation or manner of delivery.
I love not having any goddamn idea what they're gonna do next, or why.
It's easy for lots of people out there to remember (some simply aren't old enough to remember, or came to the band after its initial series of albums were already released, so they had no experience of waiting anxiously for the next broadcast from Planet Pixie) how that was ALWAYS the band's M.O. the first time around.
They're just doing things the way they always used to, and THESE DAYS, in light of the overly homogenized and formulaic way that "indie rock bands" currently sell themselves, THAT approach has the unintended - and perhaps unexpected - side effect of seeming (to some folks) confounding, aimless, flawed and/or ill-considered.
For me, what some view as a "mess," I view as a welcome return to classic Pixies marketing style - just a notch more tight-lipped and bemusing, because they themselves (meaning their whole "team") are calling all the shots now, instead of having labels involved, which, it's safe to imagine, might have attempted to downplay such eccentricities in the past.
Hope this makes sense.
Have a great weekend!
~ Peter Radiator
"Real music is out there and real people are making it." ~ Webb Wilder |
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Jose Jones
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1758 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2013 : 18:26:15
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fantastic point, billgoodman, on pop stars (Kanye West.) and albums. exactly. who? who is buying songs individually? people who like songs but don't really care about MUSIC. people who care about music buy albums. Kanye West cares about music, so he makes ALBUMS. i know the goddamn fucking pix-fucking-ies care about music, so they can fuck off with their excuses and admit (oh, they did? fine then) that it's safe and reasonable for a band that... blah blah blah history of the pixies...decides to release an EP. obviously. now make a fucking album because why would anyone want to spend 3 months listening to the same string of 4 songs when they could spend anywhere from 2 to 5 years listening to a 12-song cycle. it's WAY more work for me to queue up EP1 than it is to let Bossanova or Devils Workshop play through, CUZ I STILL HAVE TO CHANGE THE FUCKING ALBUM/EP ONCE IT'S DONE. PLUS, FOUR songs?!! if i listened to them on repeat for a week i'd be sick of them. if i listened to 12 songs on repeat i'd be FAR LESS sick of them, plus have a golden ALBUM TO FUCKING LISTEN TO for the rest of my life. for now i just have to decide which other songs i should throw these measly FOUR in with to have a decent listening experience with.
blackfrncs, how do you consume music? oh, the same way the rest of us do? GREAT. i listen to a lot of obscure shit and popular shit. NO ONE abstains from releasing albums. this excuse that you guys are falling back on is wrong. you're wrong. make a fucking awesome rock album, you babies. worried about moving units (units are songs now, not albums, eh?)? or are you bummed you aren't playing small clubs? which is it?
what form of "SUCCESS" comes from selling digital singles rather than making relevant albums and playing to devoted crowds in venues that aren't stadiums?
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they were the heroes of old, men of renown. |
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natenate101
= Cult of Ray =
USA
892 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2013 : 20:20:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Jose Jones
fantastic point, billgoodman, on pop stars (Kanye West.) and albums. exactly. who? who is buying songs individually? people who like songs but don't really care about MUSIC. people who care about music buy albums. Kanye West cares about music, so he makes ALBUMS. i know the goddamn fucking pix-fucking-ies care about music, so they can fuck off with their excuses and admit (oh, they did? fine then) that it's safe and reasonable for a band that... blah blah blah history of the pixies...decides to release an EP. obviously. now make a fucking album because why would anyone want to spend 3 months listening to the same string of 4 songs when they could spend anywhere from 2 to 5 years listening to a 12-song cycle. it's WAY more work for me to queue up EP1 than it is to let Bossanova or Devils Workshop play through, CUZ I STILL HAVE TO CHANGE THE FUCKING ALBUM/EP ONCE IT'S DONE. PLUS, FOUR songs?!! if i listened to them on repeat for a week i'd be sick of them. if i listened to 12 songs on repeat i'd be FAR LESS sick of them, plus have a golden ALBUM TO FUCKING LISTEN TO for the rest of my life. for now i just have to decide which other songs i should throw these measly FOUR in with to have a decent listening experience with.
blackfrncs, how do you consume music? oh, the same way the rest of us do? GREAT. i listen to a lot of obscure shit and popular shit. NO ONE abstains from releasing albums. this excuse that you guys are falling back on is wrong. you're wrong. make a fucking awesome rock album, you babies. worried about moving units (units are songs now, not albums, eh?)? or are you bummed you aren't playing small clubs? which is it?
what form of "SUCCESS" comes from selling digital singles rather than making relevant albums and playing to devoted crowds in venues that aren't stadiums?
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they were the heroes of old, men of renown.
The anger in this post seems over the top. It's really not that serious. A few years ago it didn't look like they would ever make anything new again. Fans are already losing sight of how cool it is that they've even made new music at all. We are spoiled as shit.
I just want to hear more, like you and everyone else, but I'm not gonna throw a fit about it. |
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Jose Jones
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1758 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2013 : 05:34:19
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that was after a few beers, i admit. i'm back to being coolly nonchalant.
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they were the heroes of old, men of renown. |
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2013 : 20:32:40
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Just bought tickets to my local stop of the upcoming US tour so I feel like talkin' Pixies. Here goes:
Going by Frank's career over the decades, I think on some level the eccentricity of the EP series appealed to him. Frank's made many left turns over the years. He's one of those artists who confuses people sometimes (which I think is great.) Changing his stage name in 1993 was a left turn. Frank's first two strange solo records, total misfits in the alt rock scene of '93 and '94, were left turns. Making classic rock influenced stuff with the Catholics was a left turn... And to me the Pixies' present release method is just Frank's latest left turn. The latest weird thing he's doing that confuses people. I can hang with that.
Now, the 10" EP format itself is, indeed, not strange or novel in 2013. It's a format that's actually older than the 12" LP.
What IS strange and novel in 2013 is the idea of a band whose new music is so fiercely anticipated choosing THAT format as the one for their comeback.
"Nobody else does that!", some here express in frustration.
"Nobody else does that!", I express with delight.
And if the band decides to scrap the EP series and push out their unreleased songs as an LP, I'd be into it. If the band decided to release ten new songs exclusively via a talking doll (pull the string on the back, hear a Pixies song!), I'd be into that, too. I'll go with whatever the band decides to do with their new music. I have no boundaries. I'm a patron for Frank's music and his eccentricities.
This left turn doesn't scare me. I've seen a bunch of 'em already. We all survived. |
Edited by - Jason on 12/07/2013 20:33:27 |
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Jose Jones
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1758 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2013 : 03:49:51
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soothing post, Jason. *no-look over-the-shoulder high-five*
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they were the heroes of old, men of renown. |
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Joey Santiago Interview-Diffuser FM.
