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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
 Posted - 07/03/2007 : 13:21:55
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So Bush commutted Libby's prison sentence and says he hasn't ruled out granting a full pardon to Cheney's former right-hand man.
To say the least the move is a departure from Bush's record on clemency (as governor of hang-em Texas) and proof that, with 18 months left in a presidency that has earned the lowest approval ratings of any modern U.S. president, he figures "WTF, I'm gonna go for it, I can't get any more unpopular."
Though one would think that conservatives of all people would want to protect the identity of CIA spies, they are criticizing Bush for not going all the way and giving Libby an all-out pardon.
And people ask why I moved to Canada.
I got some heaven in my head
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2007 : 13:26:08
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The sweet thing is if Bush had pardoned Libby then he couldn't plead the Fifth amendment. With it only commuted he can plead the fifth (or so I understand) and keep his mouth shut to protect Dick Cheney.
Ultimately it means it's going to take a major screw up for a Democrat to not win the Presidency in 2008. |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2007 : 13:44:26
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Honestly now, that movie's 2 hours long, KOK. Is it really that enlightening that I should skip the pool to watch it? Thanks.
darwin, I didn't know the Fifth amendment aspect to this. Thanks for mentioning it. It explains a lot.
I still fear the Dems will blow it.
I got some heaven in my head
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Edited by - kathryn on 07/03/2007 13:45:16 |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2007 : 13:52:30
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quote:
Originally posted by darwin
Ultimately it means it's going to take a major screw up for a Democrat to not win the Presidency in 2008.
Unfortunately, I'm certain the Democrats have the ability to do it.
Dingleberry. |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2007 : 13:59:27
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quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
Honestly now, that movie's 2 hours long, KOK. Is it really that enlightening that I should skip the pool to watch it? Thanks.
You can skip to the loo my darling for all I care just watch it! ; ) |
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HeywoodJablome
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1485 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2007 : 21:11:06
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The man in command is using his power to keep his pals out of jail, may be wrong yes but it's not shocking. Didn't Clinton give in the area of 400 pardons or "commuted sentences" during his time in office?
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
OFFICIAL INTERNET TOUGH GUY |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2007 : 21:27:04
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| Clinton gave pardons. Many of them at the end of his term. Most Presidents do. But I don't think there's any case where Clinton gave a pardon to someone who had done a crime on his behalf. Someone who lied to cover his ass. Sure, all politicians are beholden to money and power, but it's this "they're all crooks" sentiment without acknowledging different shades of shades of integrity than got us Bush II (i.e. Nader claiming that Bush and Gore were identical). |
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Jefrey
= Cult of Ray =
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2007 : 07:50:22
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What darwin said.
Almost all presidents have given questionable pardons, usually at the end of their terms.
The HUGE difference here is that it sets a precedent that the Executive branch does not have to operate under the laws of the US. He has basically said that someone can commit a felony capital offense and have no consequences. He might as well start having people he doesn't like killed. Why not? They out a CIA operative and obstruct justice with basically no consequence.
If Libby is pardoned before the end of Bush's term, it would be an outrageous abuse of power. That said, I kind of agree that it's ridiculous for this guy to go to jail for 30 months when there were son many people involved in this thing. If he rest of the punishment stands, it's still pretty stiff.
Also note that Clinton pardoned Susan McDougal, but she had to serve time while he was in office. She didn't get out till the end of his term. If Bush gives a full pardon to Libby before he leaves office, I believe it will ignite a huge shitstorm. His support from his own party is hanging by a thread, and his approval rating plummeted overnight over this already.
== jeffamerica == |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2007 : 09:19:35
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| What is left of his sentence $250,000 and probation? I actually don't know what the consequences of probation are (can't rent car?), but that I'm guessing he'll quickly be hired by some lobbying firm or Haliburton thus wiping away the $250,000 penalty. |
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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <
Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2007 : 18:16:54
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I have a question. Is there still a nostalgia for the robber barons that 'built' America? Is that why Bush is able to abuse power so outrageously and geddaway? Or are there simply no effective mechanisms in American democracy to prevent him?
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Ed is the hoo hoo |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2007 : 18:50:43
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quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
And people ask why I moved to Canada.
Why did you move to Canada, Kathryn? And why do I, originally a Canadian, feel mildly insulted by this comment?
 Please pardon me, for these my wrongs. |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2007 : 19:42:13
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I can't answer your second question, though I didn't mean to insult you.
The first question: I moved here for several reasons, one of them being a desire to stop living with the daily white noise that I felt in the States during the last many years. That's not a shot at the GOP. What I'm talking about isn't confined to one political party. I find people here are more chill. There's an edge to everything in the States that I don't discern in Canada.
I got some heaven in my head
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2007 : 21:21:03
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quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
I can't answer your second question, though I didn't mean to insult you.
The first question: I moved here for several reasons, one of them being a desire to stop living with the daily white noise that I felt in the States during the last many years. That's not a shot at the GOP. What I'm talking about isn't confined to one political party. I find people here are more chill. There's an edge to everything in the States that I don't discern in Canada.
I got some heaven in my head
Comparing Canadians to Americans reminds me of that chapter in 'Watership Down' when the wild rabbits come across the domestic rabbits and free them to take along but they are all really odd and uncomfortably creepy. |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 04:03:43
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Mister Bookworm, I've never read Watership Down, though I am both odd and creepy. But it's not the difference between the people -- it's more of a general vibe. Hard to describe. Canada just feels better to me. Everything's better here, except the maple syrup.
I got some heaven in my head
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Srisaket
= Cult of Ray =
Thailand
313 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 07:49:20
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quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
Mister Bookworm, I've never read Watership Down, though I am both odd and creepy. But it's not the difference between the people -- it's more of a general vibe. Hard to describe. Canada just feels better to me. Everything's better here, except the maple syrup.
I got some heaven in my head
I have heard of economic migrants and people who try to migrate to different countries because of the fact that their political beliefs, religion, sexual orientation etc don't accord with the governments of their home countries and they are persecuted because of it.
No we can add 'vibe migrants' to that list as well apparently.
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sweetpollypurebred
- FB Fan -
41 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2007 : 07:39:59
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and we put people in jail for minor drug possession charges
or exploit people by putting them on probation and steal their money
this country sucks |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2007 : 07:47:01
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If this country sucks, it's only because we let it happen. One huge example: George W. Bush's first term wasn't exactly our fault, but his second one surely was. We are complete idiots for re-electing him. We should be ashamed. But I don't see the point of just saying this country sucks. Do something about it.
Please pardon me, for these my wrongs. |
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The latest from George Bush
