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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
 Posted - 01/22/2007 : 19:04:27
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Or for that matter, Barack Obama. I say neither's electable. What do you say?
I got some heaven in my head
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HeywoodJablome
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1485 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2007 : 19:23:56
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I say Kathryn in '08!
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"Well then I hate you...and I hate your ass face!" |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2007 : 19:53:43
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I say both have a very good chance. What's the alternative? McCain is so tied to Iraq and despised by the evangelicals that he doesn't have much of a chance in my opinion. Gulianni? Three divorces (I think) and pro-choice won't make him much of an evangelical favorite either.
Al Gore would be my preference. |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2007 : 04:53:46
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I've been a big Hillary fan for years, and even made several bets with my colleagues at the newspaper three years ago that she'd win in '08. She's a skilled lawmaker (by that, I mean she knows how to work with her colleagues to get things done), and I truly believe she has more passion for this country than any other candidate out there. The problem is, the country sees her as a cold, calculating bitch -- and a self-serving one at that. If she's gonna win, she's gonna have to either warm up (and do it convincingly, which won't be easy) or convince voters that they need a ruthless woman in charge. I still believe she has a chance to pull it off.
And then on the other hand, I jumped ship on Hillary the very second I heard Barack Obama speak at the 2004 Democratic National Convention. I'm nuts for that guy. His energy is amazing, and he's brilliant and well-spoken, and he's got a smile that's going to win over a lot of people. And that's to say nothing of his politics. Hell, I don't know much of his politics, and I'm for him. He's that kind of candidate. Bill Clinton was that way in 1992. I shook his hand at a rally in an airport hangar in Cheyenne, Wyoming, and I was in a daze for days. So was my buddy, whose personal politics have always leaned way to the right. Clinton had that effect on a lot of people, and I think Obama will too -- even if his first name rhymes with Iraq, his last name rhymes with Osama, and his middle name (I shit you not) is Hussein.
As for the Republicans, Giuliani's out. He's ruthless, cold and calculating like Hillary -- and his personal moral failures will doom him in the heartland. I do like McCain's chances, though. He's got crossover appeal. My wife's a pretty good Democrat, but she keeps saying she'd take McCain over Hillary.
In the end, the winner might not be any of the current frontrunners. It could be a dark horse like New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson. One thing's for sure - it won't be me. I'm Canadian-born, and we have rules against that sort of thing in this country. Which I'm fine with, considering that nut job in California with all the political ambition. (No, not floop.)
And aren't you havin' fun? |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2007 : 04:57:41
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Hilary Clinton has dead eyes.
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Gravy boat! Stay in the now! |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2007 : 10:54:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Newo
Hilary Clinton has dead eyes.
And the eyes are the window to the you know what, to invoke an antique metaphysics.
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2007 : 12:08:19
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thatīs not to be taken as an endorsement of whoever the other soulless puppet is. people possessing the qualities youīd need to be a president usually donīt get anywhere near presidential offices. whoever is next in will be just like the rest: a malleable thug, with the only variation among them their ability to disguise it.
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Gravy boat! Stay in the now! |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2007 : 12:14:01
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| That's what the Nader people said. "There's no real difference between Gore and Bush." Who still believes that? |
Edited by - darwin on 01/23/2007 12:39:49 |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2007 : 15:50:13
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This Nader voter learned his lesson. I can't count how many times I've felt remorseful about buying his message in 2000.
And aren't you havin' fun? |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2007 : 16:12:13
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Neither Obama nor Hillary is viable, not when you consider the millions of voters in places like the South, etc.
No matter how you look at it, he's black and she's female and there are way too many Americans who aren't gonna vote for either of those kinds of people.
Isn't John Edwards in this time around? Edwards vs. McCain is how it's gonna shake down, I think.
I got some heaven in my head
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2007 : 16:43:18
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Horsepucky.
And aren't you havin' fun? |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2007 : 17:17:39
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| The Democrats don't have to win in the Deep South. Just a little in the Rockies or in the Rust Belt or Florida. |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2007 : 19:26:11
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quote:
Originally posted by coastline
Horsepucky.
And aren't you havin' fun?
Excuse me, please?
I got some heaven in my head
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Superabounder
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1041 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2007 : 19:50:44
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I would like Edwards to do well, but he seems so very generic to me. I'd vote for Barack over Hillary, although Hillary does have the greatest campaign master on her side: Bill. And coastline I agree, Bill is kind of like a rock star when you meet him in person(according to my brother and his wife).
I'd rather be anywhere or doing anything |
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
2462 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2007 : 01:58:54
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| A Clinton/Obama ticket would be excellent. |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2007 : 07:10:18
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quote:
darwin Posted - 01/23/2007 : 12:14:01
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That's what the Nader people said. "There's no real difference between Gore and Bush."
Burkeīs Peerage disagreed with that too. They are the official genealogists of the aristocracy and said in summer of 2000 that the race that coming November was notable for the unusually high number of royal ancestors of both candidates, and even though Gore is descended from Roman emperors Louis II, Charles II and Louis I (and therefore also a direct descendant of Charlemagne), they said Bush was a shoo-in for the position, being closely related to every European monarch on and off the throne. The Bush family formerly lived in England until they had to flee after the Gunpowder Plot to blow up the house of parliament in London, they were called the family Percy and were inbred pirates back then too.
Hasnīt the difference between the diversity of American culture and the whiteness of every single president ever set a bell ringing for you?
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Gravy boat! Stay in the now! |
Edited by - Newo on 01/24/2007 07:11:10 |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2007 : 08:20:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Newo
quote:
darwin Posted - 01/23/2007 : 12:14:01
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That's what the Nader people said. "There's no real difference between Gore and Bush."
Burkeīs Peerage disagreed with that too.
Cute. That ignores the real differences in their opinions and how they did and would have lead the US. The world would be a less fucked place right now if people with this kind of attitude (Nader supporters) has supported Gore. |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2007 : 09:10:54
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Have I mentioned I'm sorry I voted for Nader?
And aren't you havin' fun? |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2007 : 09:33:58
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I voted independent in 2000 (i think i may have voted socialist) b/c i genuinely didn't like any candidate. I will NEVER do that again until a third party is a viable option. Did anyone really buy the bullshit story that Nader would get elected?
I really love Obama, but i think he's much more viable in 2012 or 2016 when he has more national experience under his belt. I don't like Hillary for 2 reasons - first of all, she has almost no political experience and she's a carpetbagger senator. She's just too devisive.
I really like Bill Richardson, and although i will support Obama as long as he's in it, i think Richardson is really the candidate the dems should put up.
I take that back - i think Gore should run again, with Obama as his veep. I've warmed up to Gore quite a bit since 2000. He has the environmental slant now, he's hosted SNL, he appears to be human, which was his big mistake in 2000 (Robot Gore as Conan called him).
-Brian - http://bvsrant.blogspot.com |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2007 : 10:03:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Broken Face
I take that back - i think Gore should run again, with Obama as his veep. I've warmed up to Gore quite a bit since 2000. He has the environmental slant now, he's hosted SNL, he appears to be human, which was his big mistake in 2000 (Robot Gore as Conan called him).
-Brian - http://bvsrant.blogspot.com
Gore did write Earth in the Balance in 1992, so the environmental slant isn't new for him. It just didn't get talked about much in 2000. |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2007 : 10:03:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Broken Face i think Gore should run again, with Obama as his veep. I've warmed up to Gore quite a bit since 2000. He has the environmental slant now, he's hosted SNL, he appears to be human, which was his big mistake in 2000 (Robot Gore as Conan called him).
And he had that huge bulge in his pants on the cover of Rolling Stone!
And aren't you havin' fun? |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2007 : 10:45:25
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quote:
darwin Posted - 01/24/2007 : 08:20:21
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quote:
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Originally posted by Newo
quote:
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darwin Posted - 01/23/2007 : 12:14:01
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That's what the Nader people said. "There's no real difference between Gore and Bush."
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Burkeīs Peerage disagreed with that too.
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Cute. That ignores the real differences in their opinions and how they did and would have lead the US. The world would be a less fucked place right now if people with this kind of attitude (Nader supporters) has supported Gore.
weīre into would-haves now? how precise. Iīm not going to debate you on conditional tenses because we can make that as wacky as we please.
you didnīt answer my question.
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Gravy boat! Stay in the now! |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2007 : 11:19:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Newo
Hasnīt the difference between the diversity of American culture and the whiteness of every single president ever set a bell ringing for you?
Are asking me if I realize that the US and every other culture is sexist and racist? Yes, I do realize that. But for most of our history whites have been the overwhelming majority (currently 70%). Do you realize that different affluent white males have different opinions and thus different effects on policies? Why is tracing someone's genelology more relevant than looking what someone's opinions and past actions.
But do note that when the first major female candidate for the US President was mentioned you cut her down as having "dead eyes". What value is that comment beyond fulfilling a level of snarkiness? What do you not like about Hillary Clinton?
Others have mentioned her lack of qualifications. She has been a US Senator longer than Obama and Edwards. She obivously has been around politics and how the White House works. And she's smart. She went to Yale Law and nobody doubts her intelligence. She's more qualified than George W was. I'm not a big fan, but on the other hand I do think she might prove to be a good candidate and hopefullly good President if that happens. |
Edited by - darwin on 01/24/2007 11:21:05 |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2007 : 12:09:12
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the comment was made because I notice a peculiarity of Hilary Clinton that her eyes donīt move in tune with the rest of her facial features. her face smiles, her eyes donīt. Itīs an observation I made which has nothing to do with her femininity, I couldnīt care less if sheīs the first female Venusian shotputter.
for me, tracing a politicianīs genealogy can sometimes be more important than their opinions because a) a politician is in the business of finding out what members of the public hold what opinions and relecting back those opinions to those people in the hope they will get into a polling booth to sign over responsibility for things affecting them to somebody else. Your view of Al Goreīs opinions is just the nice intentions you have mirrored back at you, it donīt mean heīs going to stick to them.
and b) of the genealogy, when 33 of US Presidents are directly related to Charlemagne (you can find this at Burkeīs Peerage, itīs not like Iīm recommending you a UFO website as a source) it means the popular notion that anyone can be president has just shit the bed.
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Gravy boat! Stay in the now! |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2007 : 12:27:55
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Not everyone has an equal shot at being President. Having money and family connections means alot. That shouldn't be news to anyone. It's true of most careers. We don't live in a meritocracy. The Charlemagne thing is just a cute novelty reflecting this fact.
But, I think many of us on the Left are getting tired of the drop out attitude of the anarchist left that says that all politicians are corrupt, or the same, or simply the reflection of what they want us to see (or discounting a candidate because their eyes don't move they way one might want them to move). They do differ. They vote different ways. It's undeniable. Now you can say they vote differently because they're beholden to different groups. They're just empty vessels. Fine, but the one more beholden to you or your cause is the one more likely to advance your wishes. Gore might change (or might have changed) once he is (was) in office, but there is price in creditibility to be paid when one blatantly changes (e.g. Bush senior and read my lips). Thus, Gore is more likely to support Kyoto than Bush, and thus they aren't the same despite being male, white, and descendants of some long dead and forgotten King.
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2007 : 14:47:58
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quote:
(or discounting a candidate because their eyes don't move they way one might want them to move).
dang you have a finely-honed knack of making statements sound petty. If I was sat waiting at a bus-stop beside someone with the same manner as HC, I would move a couple seats away. Itīs to do with more than just the eyes, it gives me the feeling sheīs a consumnate faker in the human-warmth department. I started working with sea-turtles lately and you get similar looks from them when you hold their fish-bucket in front of them.
And I donīt mean all politicians of course, Iīve got a soft spot for plucky regional ones - the ones you can meet in the streets I mean. Something about when people have their only contact with their government through a teevee, then things turn ugly.
Relative as the term is, I would call signing a piece of paper to endorse a guy Iīve never met who might or might not send a bunch of teenagers off to level a country anarchic. Though it might seem strange to you, I consider voting a deeply passive act. Like the saying goes, if it changed anything it would be illegal.
I prefer to resolve situations through compromise and discussion rather than through whoīs got the best stats, the most cheerleaders, mob rule which gives a group which has no claim to sacrifice more power over an individual.
Basically, I expanded on how I feel about the band I play in - if we voted on things, we wouldnt get any music played. Well we would but it would suck.
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Gravy boat! Stay in the now! |
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jimmy
= Cult of Ray =
USA
876 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2007 : 16:15:33
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I'm pretty sure I disagree with the Clintons on most things, still...the 90s were a good time; and Hillary would be the first woman President which would be interesting, plus Bill would be back.
Someone on the cable news ( explaining why Hillary would win ) said a few years ago something like "Americans want a monarchy in this country...ever since Reagan, there's been either a Bush or a Clinton in the White House". |
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2007 : 18:53:48
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| I am voting for Hillary because she's a chick. There I said it. It's the truth. I like the chances that the next prez will be either a woman or african-american. the oval office needs some diversity. |
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kathryn
~ Selkie Bride ~
Belgium
15320 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2007 : 19:10:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Daisy Girl
I am voting for Hillary because she's a chick.
Boo hiss!
Rice is chick too. Would you vote for her? That's not a good reason to vote for someone, DaisyG.
I got some heaven in my head
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2007 : 20:45:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Newo
dang you have a finely-honed knack of making statements sound petty. If I was sat waiting at a bus-stop beside someone with the same manner as HC, I would move a couple seats away. Itīs to do with more than just the eyes, it gives me the feeling sheīs a consumnate faker in the human-warmth department. I started working with sea-turtles lately and you get similar looks from them when you hold their fish-bucket in front of them.
I don't think I misrepresented what you said. You don't like how her eyes move and thus don't trust her.
quote:
Originally posted by Newo
Relative as the term is, I would call signing a piece of paper to endorse a guy Iīve never met who might or might not send a bunch of teenagers off to level a country anarchic. Though it might seem strange to you, I consider voting a deeply passive act. Like the saying goes, if it changed anything it would be illegal.
I'm a pragmatic liberal. That might limit me to only working within the status quo and not striving for more changes, but to me it's the approach that's more likely to cause positive change as I see it.
I don't get the "voting is passive" attitude. I guess it goes so against my nature or outlook. I see that attitude as giving up and resigning oneself to only complaining. If voting is so inconsequential, why do corporations and people spend so much money try to influence it? |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2007 : 05:58:00
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quote:
darwin Posted - 01/24/2007 : 20:45:21
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quote:
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Originally posted by Newo
dang you have a finely-honed knack of making statements sound petty. If I was sat waiting at a bus-stop beside someone with the same manner as HC, I would move a couple seats away. Itīs to do with more than just the eyes, it gives me the feeling sheīs a consumnate faker in the human-warmth department. I started working with sea-turtles lately and you get similar looks from them when you hold their fish-bucket in front of them.
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I don't think I misrepresented what you said. You don't like how her eyes move and thus don't trust her.
It was more like the tone behind it, but whatever, things always seem more curt when typed on a screen. Maybe I was just being sensitive.
quote:
If voting is so inconsequential, why do corporations and people spend so much money try to influence it?
why, divide and rule.
and p.s., considering the US declared bankruptcy quietly on the 12th of last monthī(http://fms.treas.gov/fr/06frusg/06frusg.pdf, I found it on this http://drmss.com/wordpress/?p=17), I would be disinclined to believe any of these guys like Gore or HC when they say theyīre acting in the publicīs interests when at the same they tell nobody that the country is in penury.
Gravy boat! Stay in the now! |
Edited by - Newo on 01/25/2007 06:20:40 |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2007 : 07:19:03
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quote:
Originally posted by darwin
Thus, Gore is more likely to support Kyoto than Bush, and thus they aren't the same despite being male, white, and descendants of some long dead and forgotten King.
*Emperor*
Denis
"Can you hear me? I aint got shit to say." |
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2007 : 19:17:35
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quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
quote:
Originally posted by Daisy Girl
I am voting for Hillary because she's a chick.
Boo hiss!
Rice is chick too. Would you vote for her? That's not a good reason to vote for someone, DaisyG.
I got some heaven in my head
I hate to admit it but I vote for people all the time because they are women. If in doubt, I vote for gender. I know it's shallow....
But you are right under no circumstances would I vote for Condi... |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2007 : 19:53:31
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I don't care who wins. My only hope is that the President is from the party which does not control Congress and/or the House. As we should have learned from the last six years: The less politicians can get done, the better.
 "Man, you come right out of a comic book." |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2007 : 22:53:29
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i'm convinced that Hillary Clinton's presidential run is going to ruin the world, and it's probably a conspiracy
seriously, is this the next President of the United States?
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Edited by - floop on 10/19/2007 22:58:13 |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2007 : 23:03:29
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| troublemaker |
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Topic |
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Hillary Clinton: Snowball's chance?
