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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
 Posted - 11/25/2006 : 19:08:01
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This question is mostly for the guitar players on this board: How does FB rate on his guitar playing? I've enjoyed what he's done on his acoustic guitar this past year, but I'm not smart enough to know whether he's an accomplished player or he's just strumming a bunch of easy chords. What's the verdict?
 I could not find my honeycomb. |
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guidzie
- FB Fan -
France
44 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2006 : 01:35:27
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| i think he is a pretty good guitar player. He surely does know more about music than he usually says |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2006 : 01:37:09
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He's one of those players that makes it look effortless. Yeah, he does just strum a bunch of chords [don't all rhythm players?], but he does it so well and has more to his play. I wouldn't say the chords are that easy either, we still need to add Jaina Blues to the Tab Section, and have you heard the amazing break in 'The Man Who Was Too Loud'; "I will play softly"?.
There's no Joey Santiago style lead but listen to the intro to 'Boom Chicka Boom' and 'Man of Steel', and he finger flicks so good [e.g Goodbye Lorraine]
To me, what's most impressive about his playing is his strumming. Go listen to '(song)Trompe Le Monde' and 'Cecilia Ann' and try 'n' keep up. Watch him live and see his strumming hand flow so gracefully.
And last but not least; he's written the majority of songs that brought us here: whether we're Frank Black and/or the Pixies.
Who needs to play lead when you have a gift like this? God <cough!> didn't make Workman, Santiago, Cropper, Gilbert, Jarvis etc for nothing ;)
pick it lick it roll it flick it |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2006 : 01:43:27
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CECILIA ANN: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUqSMzmBA14
oh yeah! more examples of what he does so well:
So Hard To Make Things Out
Skeleton Man
I Need Peace |
Edited by - fbc on 11/26/2006 01:54:31 |
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Douglas
= Cult of Ray =
Sweden
308 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2006 : 14:45:22
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| yeah, I'm sure his lead playing is really good too, but he's definately a huge inspiration for me rythm-wise. VERY good rythm player |
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mantaraysallright
- FB Fan -
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2006 : 14:51:06
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| when it comes down to playing musical instruments I'm pretty clueless. But I will say that I saw Frank play some acoustic stuff solo and he was able to hold up the songs all by himself. I think that stands for something. |
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Jefrey
= Cult of Ray =
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2006 : 01:14:20
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OK - I'm a guitar player on this board, so I'll bite.
Well, he's been playing live for over 20 years. He didn't go to Juliard or anything, but when you write songs in your head and want to make them come out right, you often have to learn new chords. Most of the early Pixies stuff is pretty simple. My guess is that he's pretty much self-trained, but by playing so long and so often and with so many talented musicians that he's picked up tips and tricks from the best of the best over the years, and now it all looks effortless.
I played violin when I was young and play all instruments by ear as a result. That background helps a lot, but I've been in 4 rock bands. In each band there would be another musician or guitarist that would tell me "hey, it's a lot easier if you play it this way" or they'd play a weird chord that I didn't know and get them to teach it to me. There's often 4 or 5 ways to play the same chord, each with subtle differences, and I think that's what you pick up by being around other good musicians.
So that, and playing live as often as possible, and after a while, all the chords feel effortless, and you can start improvising and trying different strumming patterns because you don't even have to think about what your other hand is doing.
I think FB is a fantastic rhythm guitar player, but probably doesn't know all the scales and all the theory stuff. Just my guess. He leaves that to the incredible trained musicians he keeps around him. And Joey Santiago is a freak on the guitar - even he probably couldn't tell you how he comes up with his stuff. That's just pure creativity.
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jeffamerica
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pixiestu
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2564 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2006 : 01:36:09
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I'd like to hear how his lead playing is. He could be as creative as Joey Santiago or as unique as Lyle Workman and no-one even knows about it!
Also, just a question. Does anyone know if when Frank is writing his songs he writes the guitar solos aswell or does he just let whoever he is playing with sort it out?
"The arc of triumph" |
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
2462 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2006 : 03:08:34
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| By his own admission, he's 'a terrible lead player', but still, Frank's an excellent guitarist. Really good technique and subtlety in his playing. It's evident from his songwriting that he has a real ear for what makes a melody too. |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2006 : 05:43:21
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So...
guitar wiz he iz! |
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houstonguthrie
- FB Fan -
187 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2006 : 07:51:47
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Interesting that this would come up because I was just thinking about his guitar playing while listening to some solo acoustic stuff lately.
I was noticing how when he plays solo acoustic - you can really notice a lot more of the fills and things that he puts in there. When I was listening to the band version of these same songs there were many little riffs that I thought or just assumed were being played by the other guitar player (such as Rich Gilbert). And maybe they were played by someone else on the recording - but Frank includes them in his acoustic versions too which makes me think that they originated from him when he wrote the song.
My buddy and I like to think that we know how to play a whole bunch of Frank songs - and we do. But when I listen to Frank play his own tunes solo acoustic - I realize that on most tunes I'm playing a much more simplistic version than Frank does because of all the little fills and subtleties that he throws in there. I'll be listening to a solo acoustic version of a tune that I thought I knew pretty well and then think "Well crap I wasn't playing it anything like that!!"
And then consider all the crazy time changes, key changes, chord progressions and the great bridges that he writes. All that is testament to his great songwriting ability - but it's his guitar playing that makes all of those things translate into a rock and roll statement and not just end up a bunch of mess. You realize that firsthand when you attempt to play some of those kinds of tunes - like "Man Who Was Too Loud" or "At The End of the World" - one can make a real mess out of those songs in a hurry - but Frank makes it seem effortless. |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2006 : 09:01:55
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He's an incredible rhythm player. He's not so into lead, but I think I saw it mentioned in a recent live review that he did some nifty noodling at some show!!
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2006 : 09:04:12
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quote:
My buddy and I like to think that we know how to play a whole bunch of Frank songs - and we do. But when I listen to Frank play his own tunes solo acoustic - I realize that on most tunes I'm playing a much more simplistic version than Frank does because of all the little fills and subtleties that he throws in there. I'll be listening to a solo acoustic version of a tune that I thought I knew pretty well and then think "Well crap I wasn't playing it anything like that!!"
And then consider all the crazy time changes, key changes, chord progressions and the great bridges that he writes. All that is testament to his great songwriting ability - but it's his guitar playing that makes all of those things translate into a rock and roll statement and not just end up a bunch of mess. You realize that firsthand when you attempt to play some of those kinds of tunes - like "Man Who Was Too Loud" or "At The End of the World" - one can make a real mess out of those songs in a hurry - but Frank makes it seem effortless.
I 100% relate to this. Two Reelers, too, can be a stop/start affair.
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mostasteless
- FB Fan -
81 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2006 : 09:23:11
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| One of the things that I've taken from Frank's guitar playing is his approach to diatonics/chord choice. The later in his career he gets, the less he relies on diatonics, and the more out of the box his chords become. This is a sign that he knows what he wants to hear, rather than just searches for it within the 'acceptable' chord choices, as mamny rhythm guitarists do with diatonics. I also like how he can effortlessly change one chord from major to minor and make it flow, all in the same progression. |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2006 : 18:56:43
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The nifty noodling, Carl, was likely my own comments on Two Reelers, which fbc also references in this thread. It was FB's performance of that song in Omaha this summer that made me wonder about his guitar prowess. His hands flew up and down the neck of his guitar incredibly quickly -- I don't know how he hit the right chords. Here's a link:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/t9hwuf
I could not find my honeycomb. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2006 : 19:11:54
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at an LA around the Teenager Of The Year era he made a comment on stage about how he was taking guitar lessons. i don't think he was kidding, but i suppose it's possible.
at least that's what your mom said |
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Grunty Yodus
- FB Fan -
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2006 : 19:40:46
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| I love Frank's playing and one performance that constantly blows me away is "I Switched You." Unreal |
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Jefrey
= Cult of Ray =
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2006 : 00:55:20
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quote:
Originally posted by pixiestu
I'd like to hear how his lead playing is. He could be as creative as Joey Santiago or as unique as Lyle Workman and no-one even knows about it!
No way! Lyle Workman is a guitar god, and I still haven't washed his sweat from my forehead!
But Johnny Marr would also consider himself a rhythm guitarist (although he played some lead solos with 'The The' that were pretty fantastic), as well as The Edge, and they are among the greats of all time. You don't have to be a lead to be a master.
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jeffamerica
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2006 : 09:38:30
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quote:
Originally posted by coastline
The nifty noodling, Carl, was likely my own comments on Two Reelers, which fbc also references in this thread. It was FB's performance of that song in Omaha this summer that made me wonder about his guitar prowess. His hands flew up and down the neck of his guitar incredibly quickly -- I don't know how he hit the right chords. Here's a link:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/t9hwuf
I could not find my honeycomb.
Thanks, coast!
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2006 : 09:57:57
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Thanks, Soren-I never realised he was saying John Candy's name in the song, haven't really listened to it since I heard it was about him! Also didn't realise it was written after he died.
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ScottP
= Cult of Ray =
USA
618 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2006 : 17:33:46
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I get the feeling Frank uses his guitar as a tool to create his art. He knows he has to be good enough to play the songs in his head- and it sounds to me like he is. Guys like Lyle and Joey realize their art with the guitar. I hear alot of crossover training in Lyle's playing. But lots of training. With Joey, I hear a "no fences" attack. Pure unbridled imagination. Both are cool, but so different.
Summary: Although he impresses me as a solid player, I betcha Frank would rather talk philosophy than guitar gear. |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2006 : 19:09:39
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Oh, I reckon he could chat about gear for an hour or two!
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MarshalltheMarsist
- FB Fan -
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 00:49:07
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quote:
Originally posted by houstonguthrie
Interesting that this would come up because I was just thinking about his guitar playing while listening to some solo acoustic stuff lately.
I was noticing how when he plays solo acoustic - you can really notice a lot more of the fills and things that he puts in there. When I was listening to the band version of these same songs there were many little riffs that I thought or just assumed were being played by the other guitar player (such as Rich Gilbert). And maybe they were played by someone else on the recording - but Frank includes them in his acoustic versions too which makes me think that they originated from him when he wrote the song.
My buddy and I like to think that we know how to play a whole bunch of Frank songs - and we do. But when I listen to Frank play his own tunes solo acoustic - I realize that on most tunes I'm playing a much more simplistic version than Frank does because of all the little fills and subtleties that he throws in there. I'll be listening to a solo acoustic version of a tune that I thought I knew pretty well and then think "Well crap I wasn't playing it anything like that!!"
And then consider all the crazy time changes, key changes, chord progressions and the great bridges that he writes. All that is testament to his great songwriting ability - but it's his guitar playing that makes all of those things translate into a rock and roll statement and not just end up a bunch of mess. You realize that firsthand when you attempt to play some of those kinds of tunes - like "Man Who Was Too Loud" or "At The End of the World" - one can make a real mess out of those songs in a hurry - but Frank makes it seem effortless.
Well said! I don't play guitar, but this described exactly what I would like to have said (albiet from the perspective of listening only, not the playing part  ).
I would also add that Frank's ability to carry rhythm is freakin' awesome; most of the time the guitar dominates the drums. And, realistically, how many bands do that so well? I think the proof of this is how fucking heavy his accoustic stuff manages to sound. Frank unplugged is no less headbang-worthy. |
Edited by - MarshalltheMarsist on 12/02/2006 00:49:43 |
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Frank Black: Guitar wiz?
