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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
 Posted - 08/15/2006 : 10:19:12
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I'm actually surprized at how much I like FMRM. I've only listened to it straight through once, but individual songs keep drawing me back. It's strange, but I've actaully only listened to Honeycomb straight through once. Anyway, critics who've harped on about how Frank has lost his edge-The Pixies had a lot of hooky songs, but listen, for instance, to My Terrible Ways-that has a memorable hook, it's just that it's a nice, jazzy piece played on a saxaphone, rather than an indie rock guitar riff. As Frank pointed out in a recent interview, some of his critics probably haven't listened to him since The Pixies originally split, or maybe since TOTY or Ray. And while I'm not as big a Catholics fan as a some people here, they are a fantastic bunch of musicians and the Catholics era yielded some fine music. I think it's natural for a musician to 'mature', that doesn't necessarily mean making an over-produce, watered-down album of AOR or 'world music'. It's clear that Frank has always loved folk, blues, etc. Don't forget that rock music comes from the blues, which is a form of American folk music. In any case, I think some of the criticism FMRM has recieved is lazy journalism. As a solo artist, it shouldn't be such a shock to explore different musical styles-the songs are written by Frank Black, no matter what instruments they're played on or how. One review I saw remarked the vocals sounded dispassionate, like Frank wasn't bothered anymore. Which I think is total crap, I think Frank sounds great on FMRM. I think it stands as one of his best recordings.
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cellar_door
- FB Fan -
Canada
74 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2006 : 10:28:05
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I just made a forum in here called "methinks they doth protest too much", which hits on the exact same theme, and I agree 100% Carl.
I was a hawk and I just flew...yeah
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2006 : 11:08:30
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the old Frank is the new Frank and frankly the new frank will soon be the old
a few "lame" songs does not make a "lame" album like a few great songs doesn't make a great one. I admit HC and FM hasn't had the desired effect on me like some of the others, but that's never a problem or a reason to bitch, it's just how little me feels. There are many songs on both records I'm so glad i've heard, to think they could have been locked in the vault with the others. Now that would have been a real shame, but here they are for my audio pleasure and selfish me wouldn't want it any other way.
Anyway, fB is my favourite artist full stop so i'm biased, but one thing that is fact is the best thing about the man is the future, what's coming next. he's full of surprises. like a kinder egg.
here! look inside
My opinion for you is the best has been and is yet to come. I know that's impossible but we're talking Frank Black. Anything can happen. And it will. |
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Waiting for Godot
- FB Fan -
Australia
21 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2006 : 18:47:50
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Good one, carl.
Frank Black is gifted musician. He loves music and makes music for the right reasons. As long as he's passionate, I'll always be interested in his work.
If Mr Black kept churning out catchy riffs and offbeat lyrics year after year, it would be fair to think of him as a one-trick pony...
A good comparison is Chris Bailey. His early work with The Saints (such as Know Your Product) is worlds apart from a masterpiece like All Fool's Day. I went to see him last year and all these punk music fans were shouting out requests like it was still 1981. Embarrassing.
cellar_door, I liked your reference about some people wanting another 20 TOTY-like albums. And I agree.
As for music critics, what are they good for? Don't need some failed musician telling me what to listen to. |
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Daisy Girl
~ Abstract Brain ~
Belize
5305 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2006 : 18:56:22
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I love material from all his career. I think we get spoiled as fans b/c even if a track on one of his cds is "the worst" it is 1000xs better than other people's music. That said I think fans hold his music to higher standards.
Anyway my point is that I like all the music from all points in his career. It's all different, unique and really really good.
That said I think FB tends to be waaaay ahead of his time musically (since Pixies) and sometimes it just takes the popular culture years to catch up with where he's at.
Anyway I love music from all points of his career and what I listen too mainly depends on my mood and what FB cds I have around at that moment. |
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IceCream
= Quote Accumulator =
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 22:28:51
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Whenever I listen to TOTY or TUYA, I can't help but think that Frank's post-94 output just isn't as good.
He lost it after TOTY.
It's over. |
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Joey Joe Jo Jr. Chabadoo
* Dog in the Sand *
1079 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 03:36:20
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What about you, guy? When have you lost it, ending making cruel subjective statements in front of a computer screen?
++++ |
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mr.biscuitdoughhead
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1729 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 08:46:41
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I think the albums Frank is putting out now are much better than back in '94. I don't find myself listening to TOTY or the Orange album as much as I listen to FMRM or HC. Maybe it's because they're newer and I haven't heard them as much as the old albums, or maybe it's because I've gotten tired of the old albums, but it's mostly because I think he's making much better music now. I still think TOTY is one of the best albums I've heard, anyway.
"It's a-me, a Mario!"  |
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IceCream
= Quote Accumulator =
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 14:21:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Joey Joe Jo Jr. Chabadoo
What about you, guy? When have you lost it, ending making cruel subjective statements in front of a computer screen?
++++
I'm allowed to post whatever subjective statements I want. I am sorry if my statements sounded cruel.
Frank's songs used to implement insanely weird chord progressions and time signatures, reference extremely obscure people and places, and sound completely new and non-derivative. His newer stuff just doesn't do that anymore. Sometimes, his post-94 music sounds as if it's trying to implement the same songwriting techniques as TUYA and TOTY: a song like "I've Seen Your Picture", for example, centers around a chorus whose measures are progressively cut off. Other times, his post-94 music reflects the antithesis of TUYA and TOTY: "Horrible Day", for example, inveighs so strongly against the eccentricities of a song like "Los Angeles" that I can barely believe the same man wrote both songs.
Of course, Frank's aware of his metamorphosis, and he makes it clear in interviews that his change of style is intentional. Nevertheless, I still don't like the majority of his post-94 music. |
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Jefrey
= Cult of Ray =
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2006 : 02:27:30
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So, in 12 years, you haven't liked FB's music? Of course you're allowed to post whatever subjective statements you want, but why do you bother? Just wondering.
It's very bizarre, don't you think? I think Joey Joe is just wondering what the point of listening to albums you don't like for 12 years and then posting on a message board is for. I kind of agree. Why bother? Really? The message board is for discussion, of course, but the majority of people posting on this site like the music. It's clear you don't anymore (for 12 damn years!). Just don't buy the albums anymore and maybe save yourself some grief. Jeez.
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jose
- FB Fan -
France
140 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2006 : 05:14:24
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The Man had some fun with Nashville cats, now he seems to go back to Rock,anyway, It's all Disco!
I said Pretty Please ! |
Edited by - jose on 08/19/2006 05:14:48 |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2006 : 06:19:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Jefrey
It's very bizarre, don't you think? I think Joey Joe is just wondering what the point of listening to albums you don't like for 12 years and then posting on a message board is for. I kind of agree. Why bother? Really? The message board is for discussion, of course, but the majority of people posting on this site like the music. It's clear you don't anymore (for 12 damn years!). Just don't buy the albums anymore and maybe save yourself some grief. Jeez.
He said "the majority", Jef. What IceCream said is similar to my truth, though I enjoy the majority of post '94. In my not so relevant but just for fun opinion is the first few fB albums are something special. Considering the 'pre-catholic records' to 'catholic records' ratio, they've had more of an impact on me.
Oh, and there are non-Catholic fans around here and only Catholic fans, Pixie folk ten-a-penny, fans who aren't fa...
Bizarre indeed, but fun. |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2006 : 20:39:41
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I'll take Frank's post-TOTY output anyday over his earlier stuff. That's not to say I necessarily think it's better music, and not that I don't appreciate all the complexities and what not in his earlier music, but I just LIKE his new material. It really moves me in a way that none of his other stuff does. I love all of his albums, but there's something about his last two especially that makes me keep coming back to them. I think this whole country/folk/americana/a little bit of rock n' roll thing really suits Frank well. If you don't like that type of music, I completely understand not liking his recent albums, but I personally love it!
ˇViva los Católicos! |
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Jason
* Dog in the Sand *
1446 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2006 : 22:12:59
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Frank's music has changed enough that I'm positive he's aware that not everyone's going to like or care about it all. He's even mentioned this very thing in a few interviews (where he's said something like "Hey, I don't follow every aspect of the careers of some of my favorite musicians, either...")
Me, though, I'm a Frank fanboy through and through. I try not to be annoying about it, though. I'm a self-concious fanboy. I know all about it. I won't deny it. I won't hold it against you if you discount my opinions on Frank because they're not objective. I know they're not objective. I accept this. Not that everyone should think like this, but me, personally, my own dang self, I don't even really JUDGE Frank's music anymore. I just wanna hear it and that's satisfaction enough for me. I do like some records more than others, but you can throw on ANY Frank Black record or song and, when I hear it, a part of me will sigh and relax and think "Hey, it's Frank Black! This is good, this is comfortable".
So, yeah, I like it all. |
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ScottP
= Cult of Ray =
USA
618 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2006 : 03:20:57
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| I'm pretty sure if somebody called me a "fanboy" in person that I would kick them in the balls as hard as I could. Or maybe just saw their head off. I don't know. That name just rubs me the wrong way for some reason. |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2006 : 04:50:17
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"I just wanna hear it and that's satisfaction enough for me. I do like some records more than others, but you can throw on ANY Frank Black record or song and, when I hear it, a part of me will sigh and relax and think "Hey, it's Frank Black! This is good, this is comfortable"."
a motto for life. |
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Billy Radcliffe
- FB Fan -
USA
145 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2006 : 09:55:40
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When dog in the sand came out I thought it was the end of frank. the one thing I always neglect to realise is that it takes a minute for you to GET the album and where frank is coming from. Looking back, DITS looks like yet another great FB album. I am now having trouble with honeycomb and FMRM. But they are both SO new that I know that I just don't get them yet. When the discography is another 10 years old I am sure that honeycomb and fmrm will look like classics to me.
I could talk myself to death, but I believe I would only waste my breath. |
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freedom rocker
- FB Fan -
USA
88 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2006 : 18:23:46
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
[quote]Originally posted by Daisy Girl
I love material from all his career. I think we get spoiled as fans b/c even if a track on one of his cds is "the worst" it is 1000xs better than other people's music. That said I think fans hold his music to higher standards.
Anyway my point is that I like all the music from all points in his career. It's all different, unique and really really good.
That said I think FB tends to be waaaay ahead of his time musically (since Pixies) and sometimes it just takes the popular culture years to catch up with where he's at.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Listening to Frank over the past few years really has spoiled me. I find other forms of popular music to be way to predictable now,and i have a low tolorance for the same old song structures i hear on the radio.
Everything seems so tired and insincere on the radio because it's all about the money, and Frank is all about the music.
As long as he keeps true to his idealistic values, he could come out with a RAP (yes I said RAP) album and I would trust that it would be brilliant. Is this Blind servitude?
the blues isn't an art-form, it's a product-- not unlike computer chips and tampons.
--dead milkmen |
Edited by - freedom rocker on 08/21/2006 18:24:56 |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 07:33:40
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quote:
Originally posted by freedom rocker
As long as he keeps true to his idealistic values, he could come out with a RAP (yes I said RAP) album and I would trust that it would be brilliant. Is this Blind servitude?
Er, possibly....
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PsychicTwin
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1772 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 09:45:48
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quote:
Originally posted by IceCream
quote:
Originally posted by Joey Joe Jo Jr. Chabadoo
What about you, guy? When have you lost it, ending making cruel subjective statements in front of a computer screen?
++++
I'm allowed to post whatever subjective statements I want. I am sorry if my statements sounded cruel.
Frank's songs used to implement insanely weird chord progressions and time signatures, reference extremely obscure people and places, and sound completely new and non-derivative. His newer stuff just doesn't do that anymore. Sometimes, his post-94 music sounds as if it's trying to implement the same songwriting techniques as TUYA and TOTY: a song like "I've Seen Your Picture", for example, centers around a chorus whose measures are progressively cut off. Other times, his post-94 music reflects the antithesis of TUYA and TOTY: "Horrible Day", for example, inveighs so strongly against the eccentricities of a song like "Los Angeles" that I can barely believe the same man wrote both songs.
Of course, Frank's aware of his metamorphosis, and he makes it clear in interviews that his change of style is intentional. Nevertheless, I still don't like the majority of his post-94 music.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but everyone here lauding FMRM and Honeycomb as "the best Frank material ever" is being just as subjective as Ice Cream. and I for one, agree with him.
Though I still love the Catholics body of music, I drew a different enjoyment from it than from Orange, TOTY, and Cult of Ray. Those signify, without a doubt, my favorite period in Frank's music and the one that speaks to me most and has kept me coming back hundreds of times. The Catholics I dug more as just straight ahead rock'n'roll, with its inherent chaos and noisiness...and yes, even DITS and Show Me Your Tears won me over, though they took a while to warm up to. But, personally...I'm sorry to say...Show Me Your Tears was as rootsy of a departure as I can possibly take. Not being a huge fan of country/folk/americana, Honeycomb and FMRM do nothing for me. I don't care if it's still Frank and he's just intentionally exorcising everything that has defined his past musical endeavors to my ears. These albums are boring, lacking in energy, and formulaic (however intentionally) beyond belief.
I don't care how much you try to warp your tastes out of respect for Frank Black (and I do respect him, nothing can denigrate that), but unless you are truly a fan of folk/country/americana and genuinely adore Frank's loving tribute to this genre, his new material is nowhere near as GOOD or ORIGINAL as pre-'94 or even the Catholics era. Don't be a blind fanatic.  |
Edited by - PsychicTwin on 08/22/2006 09:47:04 |
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moonruler
- FB Fan -
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 10:37:37
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there is no blind faith in enjoyment nor lack thereof in criticism, only preference. people are also allowed to like more than one kind of music and should not be pigeonholed because an artist they liked at one time played hard rock music and has since changed. i personally like music and do not try to break it down any further than that.
good and original are also subjective ideas, which everyone are allowed to have and decide on by themselves. fmrm at times rivals teenager in its goodness and originality, to me anyway. of course, not everybody has to like it and there are definitely songs i do not like very much, although they all are growers, which is how i felt about teenager when i first bought it. rock on Frank, or wait a minute; americana on Frank!
and if his new songs are formulaic than the formula must change everytime he writes as the songs on this album are not very similar to each other. |
Edited by - moonruler on 08/22/2006 10:53:10 |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 10:37:44
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there's subjective, and then there's being on crack.
i just can't understand how a Frank Black fan can actually say that Honeycomb is his best album unless they're on crack. |
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moonruler
- FB Fan -
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 10:54:46
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| don't be mean to crackheads like that. some great songs on honeycomb, but nowhere near his best. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 11:01:37
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i'm not being mean to them. they can smoke crack and love Honeycomb all they want.
as long as they're honest with themselves about being on crack |
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
2002 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 11:39:01
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I think ALL of his music sucks! I'm just trying to be part of the 'IN' crowd.
Hank the 8th was a duplicated man
-bRIAN |
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ScottP
= Cult of Ray =
USA
618 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 11:42:01
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Old and tired, indeed. Yakity Yak...
edit: The debate, that is. |
Edited by - ScottP on 08/22/2006 16:16:37 |
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moonruler
- FB Fan -
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2006 : 12:06:17
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| ...don't smoke crack! unless you are listening to honeycomb. |
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
2463 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2006 : 03:20:46
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Crack might enhance the experience a little, I suppose.
I'd say without a doubt that the Orange album and Teenager are classics through and through, but I woildn't let that detract from the many many excellent songs on subsequent Catholics albums. The songwriting on pretty much every record since is stellar, and inventive. Even FMRM and Honeycomb pack some real classics; though I find that FB sounds like he's a guest on his own album. But then, familiarity with the material breeds love, and the majority of the recent songs have yet to be played live (if at all!), which could also explain why people aren't quite as fond of them as they might have been. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2006 : 07:28:05
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Well, I've done it. I've completely fallen in love with the first disc. I liked it before, quite a bit for some songs, but now finally I've transcended to love. Now I just have to do that with Disc 2 (assuming I can stop playing disc 1) and we will have a new classic in the vein of SMYT.
 "No man remains quite what he was when he recognizes himself." |
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Chip Away Boy
= Cult of Ray =
914 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2006 : 09:05:20
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Frank is awesome.....just saw him in Brooklyn, going to buy FM/RM today...that's all.
please won't you stay a while?
give me your coat :-D |
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moonruler
- FB Fan -
USA
209 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2006 : 09:56:27
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disc 2 is worth the wait. there are at least 5 songs that rank up there with his best ever. not sure which is my fave, but "terrible ways" is just a great, great song. as is "in the time of my ruin". as is "fitzgerald", although that one is definitely a grower. i could go on, but i will stop now. disc 2, yeah! go disc 2!
ok, not quite stopping. disc 1 is still my fave, regardless of what i just said about disc 2. |
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Ronwell Quincy Dobbs
- FB Fan -
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2006 : 11:45:46
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I can't get over "Sad Old World" and "Fast Man". FASTMAN RAIDERMAN is an amazing album. I probably wouldn't have appreciated it much in my "angst ridden" teenage years, but where I'm at now, I'll take it over any of FB's Pixie or early solo output (and believe me I love both). My crack addled wife is also in agreement.
I can see how FASTMAN RAIDERMAN and HONEYCOMB are not everyone's cup of tea and I don't hold that against anyone.
It's crack. It's great. It gets you really high. |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2006 : 12:54:15
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
there's subjective, and then there's being on crack.
i just can't understand how a Frank Black fan can actually say that Honeycomb is his best album unless they're on crack.
Never done crack, or any kind of illegal substances for that matter, but I can say in 100% honesty that Honeycomb is likely my favourite Frank Black album.
ˇViva los Católicos! |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2006 : 13:38:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
Well, I've done it. I've completely fallen in love with the first disc. I liked it before, quite a bit for some songs, but now finally I've transcended to love. Now I just have to do that with Disc 2 (assuming I can stop playing disc 1) and we will have a new classic in the vein of SMYT.
"No man remains quite what he was when he recognizes himself."
A couple things:
1. I can't seem to get into Disc 1 anymore. I liked it enough at first, but none of it jumps out for me. On the other hand, I think Disc 2 is loaded with great material.
2. For me, Honeycomb is the Frank classic, not SMYT.
Funny how it's really hard to agree on what's great Frank. I think it's easier for people to agree on what are the great Pixies songs -- Where Is My Mind?, Wave of Mutilation, Monkey Gone to Heaven -- but I might be naive on that.
 Look, a pony! |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2006 : 13:48:13
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quote:
Originally posted by NimrodsSon
quote:
Originally posted by floop
there's subjective, and then there's being on crack.
i just can't understand how a Frank Black fan can actually say that Honeycomb is his best album unless they're on crack.
Never done crack, or any kind of illegal substances for that matter, but I can say in 100% honesty that Honeycomb is likely my favourite Frank Black album.
ˇViva los Católicos!
nimrod's son is obviously in the depths of denial . it might be time for an intervention |
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
2002 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2006 : 13:48:46
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Nothing can top FB&TC Self Titled. But all his other stuff comes real close.
Hank the 8th was a duplicated man
-bRIAN |
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The old 'old Frank vs new' tired debate....
