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callahan
- FB Fan -
149 Posts |
 Posted - 08/01/2006 : 08:45:27
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So, I love Fast Man Raider Man. I personally think it's far superior to Honeycomb. It just feels as though Frank has taken the style he used from Honeycomb and applied it to his own song writing. I think it's brilliant. I would rate the album in his top five, maybe even three.
I've been reading some not so great reviews recently. Why do you think that is? I mean it's odd that the general consensus among the reviewers is that it's a good album, but very flawed. Some have even go so far to say it's boring. I'm very surprised.
I passed a cow and the cow was brown. My pyjamas clung to me like a shroud! Like a shroud! |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 09:36:04
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I guess one of the things is highlighting the negative instead of the positive. 20 odd songs and instead of praising the good, it seems more pleasurable to bash the bad, which in turn taints the whole album in their eyes. Like England and the dreaded penalty shoot outs, we only remember who missed. Plus the majority think of Frank only as the guy from the band that influenced Nirvana. Straight forward country rock isn't their bag, baby.
Or they just think the album's boring. F**k 'em. |
Edited by - fbc on 08/01/2006 09:37:21 |
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Adam
= Cult of Ray =
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 09:46:03
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I think it has a lot to so with people wanting Doolittle II or something like that after the reunion tour. If someone who hasn't followed FB, got into the Pixies in 04 and 05 and decided to get the new FB album FMRM, they sure got a suprise.
Free the Heel! |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 09:57:42
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How can anyone seriously expect Doolittle II after 17 years? If you review an album, either come into it with no expectations/preconceived notions or do your homework. It's just not fair to say I expected something and was dissapointed.
he's back jack smoking crack find him if you want to get found
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Edited by - speedy_m on 08/01/2006 09:59:10 |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 10:01:44
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| Too many reviews have too many opinions. Yeah, you used to be a Pixies fan, and yeah Black Francis could holler, but mate, no offence, I don't give a shit. Just review the God damn album as a bunch of songs. If you don't like it fair enough, but like the good man Speedy says, have no expectations or preconceived notions. |
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callahan
- FB Fan -
149 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 10:10:28
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I think it's pathetic that professional critics expect the same thing over and over. To me, this direction, whether it's permanent or not, is at least honest.
I passed a cow and the cow was brown. My pyjamas clung to me like a shroud! Like a shroud! |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 10:37:53
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Because critics feel forced to take in and review a 27-track album that needs a a few listens?
Join the Cult Of Pob! And don't forget to listen to the Pobcast! |
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-
United Kingdom
6370 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 10:44:38
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| Controversial, but maybe they just didn't dig it? |
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Grotesque
= Cult of Ray =
France
777 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 10:56:24
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Obviously, they didn't, and the reason is simple: when there is no violence they say it's not rock'n'roll so it doesn't count.
Like Robert Wyatt said about contemporary rock'n'roll, rock people forgot about the "roll"! Now I hope Frank is not gonna feel obliged to shout in the future just to please that bunch of loggers. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 10:58:41
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Weird, I was just listening to a song called Robert Wyatt when I read your reply.
 "No man remains quite what he was when he recognizes himself." |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 11:01:01
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in the name of balance, i have read some complimentary reviews, too. they're not as fun to talk about, though.
i respect any review that says, "Black, this time around I don't get it, but see you next record". |
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Grotesque
= Cult of Ray =
France
777 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 11:09:07
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| Who's song is that? |
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callahan
- FB Fan -
149 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 11:11:45
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I guess the one that finally made me think "WTF" said "This is not your fathers Frank Black. This is Frank Black for your father." Pfft!
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Edited by - callahan on 08/01/2006 11:24:55 |
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Jontiven
= Cult of Ray =
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 12:49:11
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Actually most of the reviews have been quite positive. It's just the first bunch---which I assume were the one-listen wonders---did nothing but complain about the length.
Thanks to all.
bye,
JT |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 14:38:28
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As the honeymoon with this album ends, I'm finding myself not quite as enamored as I was the first week or two. I still love it, but I can't help but see where the it's-too-long complaints were coming from. There's no way I'll ever like every song on this album, and I keep thinking it could have been better without this song and that song. Look at the FMRM Survivor game for proof that many of us hate certain songs. But it's not the same songs for everyone.
On the other hand, I read a good post today by erotic_vulture, in the "Favorite songs on FMRM" topic, that said:
"This thread proves that Black should just put out as much as possible. Skeptics who call for cutting back on 'filler' can never agree on what constitutes filler! A classic to one is anothers junk track. Amazingly Frank seems confident in all the tracks- and why shouldn't he? They all seem to resonate with one fan or another."
So all this got me to thinking: Fast Man Raider Man isn't so much an album as much as a collection of songs. It's a buffet of songs -- take whichever you want, and come back for seconds and thirds and fourths on your favorites. It's not like Honeycomb, which held the album concept much better. It holds together thematically very well -- lyrically and musically. The only thing that seems to hold FMRM together is that most of it was recorded at the same time, by the same musicians.
Sorry for the long post. Been having these thoughts for awhile, and couldn't sort them out until I wrote them down.
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Look, a pony! |
Edited by - coastline on 08/01/2006 14:56:16 |
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ScottP
= Cult of Ray =
USA
618 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 19:44:14
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| Judging by the current trend, if Frank started wearing a horror mask and screaming at the crowd to, "put your fucking hands tofuckinggether!!!", he would probably have all the platinum record sales and 5 star reviews he could stand. |
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scruvs
= Cult of Ray =
353 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 20:33:31
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quote:
Originally posted by speedy_m
How can anyone seriously expect Doolittle II after 17 years? If you review an album, either come into it with no expectations/preconceived notions or do your homework. It's just not fair to say I expected something and was dissapointed.
he's back jack smoking crack find him if you want to get found
It's not what I expected. I'm not necessarily saying I'm dissapointed though either. Rumors before release talked about how different the record was from Honeycomb. At release, I was expecting something very different from Honeycomb. To my unsophisticated ears FMRM is more similar to Honeycomb than it is different. Not necessarily bad, but not what I expected.
Albums as a whole are important to me. I always assume an extraordinary amount of effort was put forth to make sure that every song on the record is in exactly the right place. When a song finishes, my mind is already on the next song. Occasionally, I'll have a record where I consistently skip the same song, but usually the record will just play in the foreground or the background, in order, as released. As a result, I tend to listen to my favorite records more often than my favorite songs, even in my digital library.
_____________________
Boy, you sure can holler. |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2006 : 00:27:34
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quote:
Originally posted by fbc
Like England and the dreaded penalty shoot outs, we only remember who missed.
I can't remember who missed... there were too many of them.
Denis
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2006 : 09:15:59
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| You're French. You don't get our dodgy pizza commercials. |
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edbanky
= Cult of Ray =
Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
388 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2006 : 09:18:14
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Not commenting on any specific review, I don't fault them for reviewing it as an entire album. It might not be so much the number of songs on the album; still, if I'm sitting there writing a review and find myself realizing, "Hey, there's 10-12 really poor songs on this 'album,'" that's plenty reason for pause. Since it is indeed sold as a single package containing 27 songs, and the review tradition dictates reviewing it as an album, I can completely understand how it has garnered its share of negative or lukewarm reviews. It's one album with (in my opinion anyway) an album's worth of filler inside it.
Fortunately, you've got programmable CD players and the like, so even FM RM can become a killer 12-15 song album, even by a more critical yardstick.
Due to my present condition and predicaments of being a crippled as a result of the fatal accident that I had, I am not able to carry out this contract because I can only walk on a wheel chair. |
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Jontiven
= Cult of Ray =
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2006 : 13:10:15
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My thoughts precisely----everyone will have their own ideas about which tracks are the killer and which are filler. We certainly had a difficult time cutting anything off. So for a fairly reasonable price, you can pick and choose what goes on your IPOD.
I hope I'm not being redundant here.
I hope I'm not being redundant here.
bye,
Jon Tiven |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2006 : 13:38:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Jontiven
We certainly had a difficult time cutting anything off. So for a fairly reasonable price, you can pick and choose what goes on your IPOD.
bye,
Jon Tiven
The death of albums. |
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ScottP
= Cult of Ray =
USA
618 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2006 : 16:48:34
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| The only thing cool about an album (I call them records- as in "a recording") is the artwork, and that died with vinyl. |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2006 : 20:18:13
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I've considered creating a playlist with my favorite 12 or 15 songs and calling that my own version of Fast Man Raider Man, but isn't it the artist's job to do the paring down of songs to get the perfect work of art? Or is it the producer's job? Or maybe the artist's manager? (Then again, I very much prefer disc 2 of FMRM to disc 1, which was the Ken Goes album, and I don't know how happy I would have been if FMRM had been just those first 13 tracks.)
Monsieur Tiven, whose call is it, ultimately, which songs end up on Frank's albums? And how much talk was there about overextending the listener? Ninety-four minutes is a lot for an album. Or is this, like Darwin said in the above post, the death of albums?
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Look, a pony! |
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Jontiven
= Cult of Ray =
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2006 : 05:53:50
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The artist made that decision, and I backed him 100%.
bye,
JT |
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Grotesque
= Cult of Ray =
France
777 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2006 : 06:14:41
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But anyway it's so personal. I noticed that if somebody hates 5 particular tracks of FMRM, it becomes universally obvious that the dumb producer should have removed them. "But how didn't he see that, the complete fool!?"
Well as we are remaking rock history, I'd also like a Bossanova without "Dig For Fire", a "Ziggy Stardust" without the slow boring songs and absolutely no George Harisson songs in the all Beatles discography. And please, if somebody could take a time capsule to talk to Ray Davies in the early 70's so he could continue to write some good songs... What? Some people actually LIKE what he did in the 70's? No, no, you must be mistaken, it's imposible, I'm... DOCTOR MUSIC!!! |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2006 : 08:40:30
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If Frank had recorded himself taking a crap and included that as track 28, and someone suggested it'd be a better album without the crap, is that trying to rewrite rock history? Come on, Grotesque. There is some weak stuff on FMRM, and fans and critics are not out of line suggesting it could have been stronger with some judicious cuts. As Honeycomb was being finalized, tracks were trimmed and the order was shuffled to create what I consider one of the all-time great rock albums. This didn't happen with FMRM, and while I salivated when I heard that I was going to get 27 new Frank Black songs, I'm come to realize that this is a weaker album because too much was left on.
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Look, a pony! |
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Grotesque
= Cult of Ray =
France
777 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2006 : 09:17:01
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OK i've been a bit extreme just to write something fun, but truth is I like everything on fastman raiderman.
On the previous albums I always found some problem tracks just like you right now. To me FMRM is really homegenic and cutting some songs would just make it shorter. The only thing I don't like is the cover, with the cheap photoshop effect, even if the digipack is a great choice of material. |
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Jontiven
= Cult of Ray =
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2006 : 14:03:00
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OK coastline, you so smart tell us which track you'd have excised, and then let's see if any Frank fans post and tell you where to shove it. I'll stay out of it, I'm already on the record as being extremely in favor of all the songs.
GO!
bye,
Jon Tiven |
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coastline
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3111 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2006 : 14:28:10
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I hope I wasn't striking a confrontational pose here, because that wasn't my intention. There are songs I don't like as much as the other ones on FMRM, and I think naming them would indeed invite confrontation. I'm just pointing out -- as anyone who is trying to appreciate a piece of art should be able to -- that there are things about this particular work that don't resonate so well with me. I should hope that the artist can appreciate such criticism, and I'd be shocked to find out that he didn't. And while I doubt that his singular goal is to please a bunch of fanboys, I'm sure he has an interest in the criticism of those who generally appreciate his work. So it always surprises me to see Jon Tiven come on here and take these criticisms so personally. I'm not trying to ruffle your feathers, Mr. Tiven, nor anyone else's, but aren't these sorts of discussions the reason these forums exist?
Then again, I wish Frank Black would come on here and tell me to shove it. THAT would kick ass.
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Look, a pony! |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2006 : 14:56:15
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quote:
Originally posted by coastline
... aren't these sorts of discussions the reason these forums exist?
You bet.
"No man remains quite what he was when he recognizes himself." |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2006 : 14:58:18
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Disc 1 is what Ken Goes wanted to release as a 1-CD album, and I dislike half of it. So, releasing the remaining 14 songs was a wise move IMO.
Denis
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frankblackphx
= Cult of Ray =
USA
287 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2006 : 15:00:07
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Having a different opinion is what makes music so interesting. I also don't feel out of line by stating that there is no weak stuff on Fast Man Raider Man. It is an incredible journey to listen to. I am glad Frank decided to release all of the tracks. Let the listener decide which tracks they like or they don't like. Its not like Frank is creating Pop Music where his sales are going to depend on what tracks are on this recording. His fans are going to buy the album regardless if it was 13 or 27 tracks.
I was so surprised when I heard the songs that were being left off of Honeycomb, since they were some of my favortites. I am glad they have surfaced on this CD. Fast Man Radier Man is better for it.
Here I am for your judgement
When the paint grows darker still
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Grotesque
= Cult of Ray =
France
777 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2006 : 15:45:46
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Frank already said he's not so sure about Dog Sleep.
OK, this song seems unfinished and strange, but everybody loves it!
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2006 : 17:31:54
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Which is a classic example of the old debate I suppose. Everybody loves it. Artist is not thrilled by the song. Do you leave it off or put it on? Obviously you don't put it on until you're happy, and the original Dog Sleep is quite different than what we have on the album today, presumably FB got to the root of it and now likes the song.
"No man remains quite what he was when he recognizes himself." |
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callahan
- FB Fan -
149 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2006 : 18:20:42
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To me, this album feels like an "ode" to the musicians he played with and a nod to the stlyes of music that they all play. I see it as an incredibly eclectic mix of songs. I rarely love every song on any album. This one comes close. But again part of what I like is that this is such a departure from his past albums. Sure, it has a similar feel to Honeycomb. But it goes much further because he wrote almost all of the songs. I can certainly see how some fans may find problems with it, especilly if they're longing for a more rock n roll album. I can also see how some critics may, on first listen, not see it for how great it really is. But I think it gets better and better as time goes on
The musicians involved are amazing and the quality of thier playing is incredible! |
Edited by - callahan on 08/04/2006 18:26:14 |
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Topic |
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Why the lukewarm reviews?
