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Grotesque
= Cult of Ray =
France
777 Posts |
 Posted - 07/30/2006 : 06:33:37
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I know there are a lot of people here who started to really dig FB just when he began to play with the catholics. Anyone want to discuss about what they brought (and what they didn't) ?
That's interisting now, with the new albums, we can musically separate the man and the band.
To me, there are two points that I want to discuss: the extensive overmixed guitar solos and the lack of exiting breaks in the drum/bass section. I allways had the impression when they played older songs on stage like Pong or Parry The Wind that the drumer and the bassist where thinking "what a boring complicated structure we have to get along with!".
On the other hands, there are probably many very good points, like the authenticity, I don't know...
It's probably totally vain to discuss that, but who cares?
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2006 : 08:15:17
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Best point about the Catholics: RICH-FUCKING-GILBERT!!!!!!!!
Worst point about the Catholics: Lousy production on their albums. I'm NOT talking about recording live--I'm perfectly okay with that. I just think the production is generally terrible. Ben Mumphrey is probably to blame since he produced most of their stuff. But then again, he produced DITS, didn't he? Which is probably their most solidly produced album. A lot of times this actually works to their advantage, but I draw the line whenever anyone uses a sampled piano. It's unacceptable in ANY situation, and tends to make a lot of things unlistenable, which is unfortunate for myself, since I used to love a lot of those songs (and still do) before I began to notice things like that, and now I can't listen to a lot of them.
The good thing is, that's the only bad thing I can think of. They're an incredibly solid group, a great on-stage group (Even though I never got the chance to actually go to one of their shows), and Frank always had great material for them to play.
¡Viva los Católicos! |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2006 : 10:30:32
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I love FB with the Catholics starting around DITS. I mean, I like Pistolero a lot, and every time I listen to FB&Cs I remind myself I actually like a lot of the music on there - particularly songs like Solid Gold - but DITS, BLD, and SMYT are all excellent albums where I feel they'd really gone from a backing band to a group.
I don't know if I'd say the production was _bad_ per se, at least not from DITS on. The first two FB albums just happen to be exceptional.
 "No man remains quite what he was when he recognizes himself." |
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ScottP
= Cult of Ray =
USA
618 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2006 : 11:51:36
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I bought the first two FB solo records and really liked them alot. But, when FB&TC came out I thought, "This is the greatest music I have ever heard in my life." I remember leaving the mall, getting into my car, starting the car, popping this new CD into the CD player, and opening the booklet. The next thing I remember is Frank saying,"..ahh, better not.." and realizing that my car was still running. I was so consumed by the sound, the songs, the mystery in the lyrics- that CD did not leave my car's player for over a year. I listened to it when I was in the car, and I thought about it while I was away. I was literally dumbstruck by this perfect rock record.
I really like all of Frank's stuff but nothing (no artist, no album, no nothing!) has ever moved me like FB&TC's first record did. A masterpiece in my opinion. |
Edited by - ScottP on 07/30/2006 12:51:10 |
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Frog in the Sand
-+ Le premiere frog +-
France
2715 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2006 : 12:47:34
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quote:
Originally posted by NimrodsSon
Ben Mumphrey is probably to blame since he produced most of their stuff. But then again, he produced DITS, didn't he?
He didn't. DITS was produced by Nick Vincent. Mumphrey coproduced SMYT and DW.
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 blackolero le only Frank Black / Pixies site 100% in français |
Edited by - Frog in the Sand on 07/30/2006 12:48:18 |
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
2461 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2006 : 15:45:13
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| Sorry to chime in with the first 'Nashville bashing' post, but I began to appreciate the rawness and impact of the Catholics era records all the more, after listening to the more muted production of FB's last two records. I appreciate that my particular description might come across as rather ignorant, however. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2006 : 16:23:09
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Dog In The Sand is like getting a massage from Italian lingerie models on a bluff overlooking the Mediterranean sea, after having some thin-crust sausage pizza with jalapenos and cold Belgian beer.
Honeycomb is like going to a strip club in Albuquerque where all the women are all in their late 40's and early 50's and slightly overweight, but you're drunk and hungry so you eat some of the cold barbecue chicken wings and then figure, what the hell, you'll get a lapdance, except when you follow the girl into the private room there are two rednecks who beat the shit out of you, steal your wallet, and leave you in the back alley where you wake up to a large homeless person trying to have his way with you.
"I don't have any money to buy new clothes and if they paid me to get some I'd probably buy more hoodies." - Mark Wainfur |
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danjersey
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
2792 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2006 : 16:59:48
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quote:
Originally posted by ScottP
I bought the first two FB solo records and really liked them alot. But, when FB&TC came out I thought, "This is the greatest music I have ever heard in my life." I remember leaving the mall, getting into my car, starting the car, popping this new CD into the CD player, and opening the booklet. The next thing I remember is Frank saying,"..ahh, better not.." and realizing that my car was still running. I was so consumed by the sound, the songs, the mystery in the lyrics- that CD did not leave my car's player for over a year. I listened to it when I was in the car, and I thought about it while I was away. I was literally dumbstruck by this perfect rock record.
I really like all of Frank's stuff but nothing (no artist, no album, no nothing!) has ever moved me like FB&TC's first record did. A masterpiece in my opinion.
"for sure"
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7441 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2006 : 01:07:36
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I don't know how you can talk about bad production on the Catholics records, considering what we got on the last 2 albums.
I miss the Catholics. A lot.
Denis
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Frog in the Sand
-+ Le premiere frog +-
France
2715 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2006 : 01:11:11
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I miss EDF, Nick and Lyle.
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blackolero le only Frank Black / Pixies site 100% in français |
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Frog in the Sand
-+ Le premiere frog +-
France
2715 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2006 : 01:19:13
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That said, I like Tiven's production, except on some tracks on Fm/Rm 2.
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blackolero le only Frank Black / Pixies site 100% in français |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2006 : 06:07:30
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quote:
Originally posted by vilainde
I don't know how you can talk about bad production on the Catholics records, considering what we got on the last 2 albums.
I miss the Catholics. A lot.
Denis
Well, to each his own, but I personally LOVE Tiven's production, and I'm not just sucking up to him since he reads our posts. Honeycomb is to me one of the most painfully PERFECT records ever created, and much of that is owed to Tiven's production. The production on FMRM is equally good, but even though it's a great record, it doesn't reach the sheer perfection of Honeycomb.
¡Viva los Católicos! |
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Grotesque
= Cult of Ray =
France
777 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2006 : 08:12:39
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As we switched to Tiven again, I noticed something funny but perhaps it's just my fucked up ears:
try to listen to Johnny Barleycorn on your hi-fi with the treble at the maximum... what's happening? The guitar and voice are becoming brighter, and to me it becomes a much better song. The moment it really makes the difference is the break when Frank sings "... the hunger" that you can barely ear in the normal mix. I think they mixed it that way because it was too rock to get along with the other FMRM song. I first noticed that when I listened the podcast on my computer very tiny sound sytem: the song seemed remixed and twice better with the treble up. But since the first hearing of the song, I had the impression the voice and guitar were not distinct enough, like when you have a mastering technical problem or so |
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Grotesque
= Cult of Ray =
France
777 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2006 : 08:18:30
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"that said", me also, i'm sure they did it on purpose to obtain some swampish athmospere or so...
(I re-read my post and I fear a Tiven explaination, that are nice but I'm sure the album is good enough with all its mystery!)
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Jontiven
= Cult of Ray =
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2006 : 08:56:56
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Nothing was intentional, it was all random. Like life, right?
bye,
JT |
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Frog in the Sand
-+ Le premiere frog +-
France
2715 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2006 : 12:08:31
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
Dog In The Sand is like getting a massage from Italian lingerie models on a bluff overlooking the Mediterranean sea, after having some thin-crust sausage pizza with jalapenos and cold Belgian beer.
So DITS reminds you of Belgium and Italy... Maybe BLD makes you think of Bulgaria? 
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blackolero le only Frank Black / Pixies site 100% in français |
Edited by - Frog in the Sand on 07/31/2006 12:10:38 |
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junkmale
- FB Fan -
79 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2006 : 12:45:59
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I think I really got into the solo stuff from Dog onwards. It was St Francis Dam Disaster that did it - just about the perfect song IMHO. But I love all the Catholics albums. I saw them on the Tears tour three times. The best was in Brussels in the Orangerie, a really small venue. The Catholics REALLY rocked that night. I used to think DG was the star of the band but. as a friend who I had dragged along to Shepherd's Bush pointed out. Dave Phillips is a really fantastic guitarist. Gilbert just plays too many notes.
On the recent work sans-Catholique I am ambivilent. You know there are some good songs in there but there is a lot of stuff that should have been filtered out. And it would have sounded better played by the Catholics!
I need peace... turned up so loud
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TRANSMARINE
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
2002 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2006 : 13:10:04
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quote:
Originally posted by ScottP
I bought the first two FB solo records and really liked them alot. But, when FB&TC came out I thought, "This is the greatest music I have ever heard in my life."...I was so consumed by the sound, the songs, the mystery in the lyrics...I was literally dumbstruck by this perfect rock record.
I really like all of Frank's stuff but nothing (no artist, no album, no nothing!) has ever moved me like FB&TC's first record did. A masterpiece in my opinion.
Here here!
Hank the 8th was a duplicated man
-bRIAN |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2006 : 13:55:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Frog in the Sand
quote:
Originally posted by floop
Dog In The Sand is like getting a massage from Italian lingerie models on a bluff overlooking the Mediterranean sea, after having some thin-crust sausage pizza with jalapenos and cold Belgian beer.
So DITS reminds you of Belgium and Italy... Maybe BLD makes you think of Bulgaria?
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blackolero le only Frank Black / Pixies site 100% in français
i thought it was obvious that i was talking about the production aspect
"I don't have any money to buy new clothes and if they paid me to get some I'd probably buy more hoodies." - Mark Wainfur |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2006 : 14:18:17
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I can't say I've paid too much attention to the Catholic bass lines (maybe I should), unlike his pre-C records, they don't jump out at me. I like my rhythm section to be as much a part of the song as possible, not just there to keep the pace. Like the Pixies (doolittle), for example. I really dig the two-track recording, but a little bit of polish like on fB doesn't do any harm. I'd really like to hear many Catholic songs recorded by multi-track.
I can see why alot of people rate DiTs so highly, but the self titled is where it's at for me. I can take or leave a few songs on the majority of the others. At the time, I did feel slightly crestfallen, only because I wanted more of the Cult/fB/Teenager Black (no one does it like him. Genius Black), but this was The Man, and there's always something in his music that could dilute any disappointment. Plenty of 'I Need Peace' and 'The Man Who Was Too Loud' (which I thought was about the man which meant double disappointment: "what, no more loud?! Boo!"). Pistolero put that worry to bed.
Rich Gilbert is a Legend. |
Edited by - fbc on 07/31/2006 14:19:26 |
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Frog in the Sand
-+ Le premiere frog +-
France
2715 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2006 : 14:43:47
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
quote:
Originally posted by Frog in the Sand
quote:
Originally posted by floop
Dog In The Sand is like getting a massage from Italian lingerie models on a bluff overlooking the Mediterranean sea, after having some thin-crust sausage pizza with jalapenos and cold Belgian beer.
So DITS reminds you of Belgium and Italy... Maybe BLD makes you think of Bulgaria?
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blackolero le only Frank Black / Pixies site 100% in français
i thought it was obvious that i was talking about the production aspect
It is, it is.
Peace, love, and Café Pasqual's.
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blackolero le only Frank Black / Pixies site 100% in français |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2006 : 14:52:32
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quote:
Originally posted by NimrodsSon
Best point about the Catholics: RICH-FUCKING-GILBERT!!!!!!!!
Sing it brother.
That guy is so cool.
The Catholics were a fantastic live band, so tight, and solid and funky as well. I'm not sure they ever really brought that to their records, the production never sat all that well with me. I do prefer it to the more recent records though - the difference in sound between SMYT and Honeycomb is startling.
 Hail to the king, baby! |
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ScottP
= Cult of Ray =
USA
618 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2006 : 16:08:17
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| I just did a FB mix CD for my wife and yeah, don't put a HC song right after a SMYT song. It's like throwing a blanket over the speakers. |
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frankblackphx
= Cult of Ray =
USA
287 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2006 : 16:56:14
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The thing I like least about The Catholics is Rich's guitar playing. I was very happy when Frank brought in Dave Phillips as another player. I don't want to turn this into a Lyle vs Rich thread but I liked the Catholics with Lyle so much more.
For me, Reggie Young and Steve Cropper are just amazing musicians. I'm sorry but I don't miss the Catholic musicians (excpet Lyle) when I listen to the players on Honeycomb and Fast Man Raider Man. I miss the loud guitars and more uptempo songs. I just really prefer the Frank, EDF, Nick Vincent and Lyle lineup anyway. That is what I prefer to the Catholics.
I love all of the Catholics albums but it is all about Frank for me. It really doesn't matter who Frank plays with. It is the songwriting and voice that gets me.
Here I am for your judgement
When the paint grows darker still
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2006 : 17:26:59
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quote:
Originally posted by ScottP
It's like throwing a blanket over the speakers.
it's more like having a blanket thrown over your head, after taking vicodin and drinking tequila..
and then waking up in an Albuquerque prison cell with an overly-friendly cell mate.
"I don't have any money to buy new clothes and if they paid me to get some I'd probably buy more hoodies." - Mark Wainfur |
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tt
- FB Fan -
70 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2006 : 17:43:58
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
quote:
Originally posted by ScottP
It's like throwing a blanket over the speakers.
it's more like having a blanket thrown over your head, after taking vicodin and drinking tequila..
and then waking up in an Albuquerque prison cell with an overly-friendly cell mate.
"I don't have any money to buy new clothes and if they paid me to get some I'd probably buy more hoodies." - Mark Wainfur
What happened to you in Albuquerque? Seems like you had your troubles there... |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2006 : 20:01:31
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quote:
Originally posted by tt
What happened to you in Albuquerque? Seems like you had your troubles there...
Hasn't he already made that abundantly clear? |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2006 : 21:13:29
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i'd rather not talk about Albuquerque actually. or Honeycomb.
"I don't have any money to buy new clothes and if they paid me to get some I'd probably buy more hoodies." - Mark Wainfur |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6186 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 01:29:24
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FB and the C's
Pistolero
Dog in the Sand
Black Letter Days
Devil's Workshop
Show Me Your Tears
These 6 discs are pretty neat, I don't think I could stand 6 Nashville discs. But if Tiven and Black are up to it, I'm going to listen. There is a tremendous shift from FB and the C's till Show Me Your Tears anyway. Besides, the piano on SMYT isn't sampled anyway.
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God save the Noisies |
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NimrodsSon
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1938 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 06:28:29
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quote:
Originally posted by billgoodman
Besides, the piano on SMYT isn't sampled anyway.
'Tis indeed. Listen to This Old Heartache through a good set of headphones.
[edit] I just went back and listened to it after I typed that (always a smart thing to do), and it is, in my estimation, a real piano, so I was wrong.
¡Viva los Católicos! |
Edited by - NimrodsSon on 08/01/2006 06:46:33 |
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Grotesque
= Cult of Ray =
France
777 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 11:13:49
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I remember Frank saying he asked EDF to switch his organ sound to a straight piano sound (addind it was "too roxy"). Described like that I imagined EDF with a synthetizer, trying different sounds.
But anyway everyone here seems to love EDF obvious synth sounds (it's part of the humor of Teenager and Orange album, isn't it?) |
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Grotesque
= Cult of Ray =
France
777 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 11:14:44
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| Oh, and that was for the DITS sessions. |
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kelladwella
= Cult of Ray =
Germany
729 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 12:34:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Grotesque
But anyway everyone here seems to love EDF obvious synth sounds.
I really don't like it. TOTY sounds so dated and cheesy to me sometimes. |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 14:06:26
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| yeah, but what a date and Käsesandwich (babel :) |
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kelladwella
= Cult of Ray =
Germany
729 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2006 : 14:12:00
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You're right of course... it IS a tasty sandwich.
It's just this one ingredient that puts me off sometimes. But it's more when I'm concentrating on it.
Of course, this has nothing to do with the catholics era. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2006 : 19:01:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Grotesque
I remember Frank saying he asked EDF to switch his organ sound to a straight piano sound (addind it was "too roxy"). Described like that I imagined EDF with a synthetizer, trying different sounds.
But anyway everyone here seems to love EDF obvious synth sounds (it's part of the humor of Teenager and Orange album, isn't it?)
yeah, i read an interview where Frank said that he wanted all the keyboard on DW to be played with a traditional piano, because he was going for that kind of Americana feel. and EDF begged him to use a whurlitzer on some tracks :)
i don't think, with this particular album and what he was going for, there's any chance that there'd be sampled keyboard stuff on this one
"i own Mailbu." |
Edited by - floop on 08/02/2006 19:06:17 |
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The catholics era
