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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-
United Kingdom
6370 Posts |
 Posted - 07/21/2006 : 05:53:45
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There was a story in the news the other day about Autism and how it was more common than thought. The report suggested that as many as 1 in every 100 people are affected.. I sometimes think that those who are labelled autistic probably aren't. It seems like it's easier to get a name put to a problem rather than deal with an unruly child. I'm not denying autism or a whole bunch of other conditions exist or require treatment. I just sometimes think the trend is to over-labelling these things and in some cases mis-labelling.
With physical diseases it's easier to quantify and treat. With many disorders, especially psychologial ones, it's harder to do that I think. I sometimes think it's a slightly dodgy grey area so tend to be pretty sceptical.
Thoughts.
Thanks for the title of this thread go out to llamadance
"You're not too big to go over my knee young man" |
Edited by - starmekitten on 07/21/2006 06:42:03 |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 06:19:17
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I think that Autism is one of those illnesses, like lactose intollerance, that should be only be recognized in serious cases. I know comparing those two seems insane, but it is an illness that almost everyone can claim some piece of, but for those who truly are, it can be bad.
I think things that used to be "energetic" is now minor ADHD. I think everyone wants to medicate, and everyone wants simple answers. I'm with you on this one Tre.
PS - i'm exhausted and probably sound very incoherant right now, i apologize.
-Brian - http://bvsrant.blogspot.com |
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-
United Kingdom
6370 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 06:38:25
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Makes perfect sense to me Brian.
"You're not too big to go over my knee young man" |
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jediroller
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1718 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 06:59:42
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I just saw a whole page in the paper about the "overthinking syndrome". Apparently it's the new trendy name for "being a worrier". Nothing to do with autism either, I know. Just thought it fit.
free music | Blackolero | Frank Black & Pixies Tributes |
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-
United Kingdom
6370 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 07:02:54
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Oh my gosh, I've got that! I'm just like that! I wonder if there are some pills I can take for it....
"You're not too big to go over my knee young man" |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 07:35:36
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What's the testing like for autism?
I can tell you that the testing for ADD and ADHD is pretty general and shite.
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Edited by - Carolynanna on 07/21/2006 07:36:15 |
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HeywoodJablome
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1485 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 07:39:05
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I'm with you on this when it comes to something like ADD. My dad's step son was said to have this so ofcourse they immediately put him on Ritalin. I spent a lot of time with said kid before they diagnosed him and although I'm no doctor I think I can safely say that his main problem was that his mom let him do whatever he wanted and never really disciplined him. If a kid knows he'll get his little ass beat if he does something he's not supposed to 9 times out of 10 you'll see that "ADD" clear right up.
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Wait a minute, strike that. Reverse it. |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 08:01:55
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quote:
Originally posted by HeywoodJablome
I'm with you on this when it comes to something like ADD. My dad's step son was said to have this so ofcourse they immediately put him on Ritalin. I spent a lot of time with said kid before they diagnosed him and although I'm no doctor I think I can safely say that his main problem was that his mom let him do whatever he wanted and never really disciplined him. If a kid knows he'll get his little ass beat if he does something he's not supposed to 9 times out of 10 you'll see that "ADD" clear right up.
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Wait a minute, strike that. Reverse it.
Amen.
 I have joined the Cult Of Frank/And I have dearly paid |
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jediroller
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1718 Posts |
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mosleyk
= Cult of Ray =
USA
607 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 09:32:36
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| Personally I think a lot of this over-labeling comes down to money. You are fooling yourself if you think pharmaceutical companies aren’t interested in profit. The only way to make more money is to get more people on drugs, and the easiest way to do this is by expanding indications and finding new and exciting afflictions for us all. |
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ObfuscateByWill
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1887 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 10:30:29
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My son is autistic. It has never been suggested that we treat him with drugs. We would refuse any suggestions that we do so.
I've read a bit on autism and I've personal experience with diagnosed children other than my son. Some kids I've seen are doing very poorly while others have completed college. It's a "spectrum" that covers many behaviors or disabilities and provides a possible direction for treatment.
I think that children that may have been previously labeled simply, "retarded" (or ADD/ADHD) are being done a justice through an autism diagnosis. Rather than being simply drugged, placated and ignored the children receive encouragement and additional therapies and services that may not have been acceptable (in the eyes of the public) to provide to a "retarded" (or, in the case of ADD/ADHD, "spoiled") child.
 *Release the bats! |
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Llamadance
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2543 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 12:19:53
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I pretty much believe that if someone can undergo treatment which will benefit them, then it's ok to diagnose/give them a label. At least then it gives whoever is concerned a platform to work from.
It's funny, my wife is a marine biologist and consequently comes in to contact with many physical oceanographers (very mathematical) - she's convinced that many of them show autistic traits, but obviously manage to function in the real world. However, if kids can benefit from a diagnosis, then why not.
I don't know much about ADHD, but I would be reluctant to have drugs chucked at my kid. And if what Heywood says is replicated, then maybe it's the parents who have to be treated (parenting courses) rather than the kids (obviously not for all cases)
mosleyk - you're right, absolutely, but in terms of a non-mental disease, the expansion of the criteria for diagnosing diabetes could help protect people from long term cardiovascular problems. Can't help but think that's a good thing.
What lies before us and what lies behind us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us -Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 12:24:58
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Ritalin is speed.
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 12:33:35
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My son has ADD, no though.
The drugs can help but if prescribed to a person that doesn't have ADD they're useless with the exception of creating a nice little chemical dependence.
The big thing is that there are so many other things to give them and help them. One of the biggest is DIET!!!!!!!!!! They have have have to have an adequate amount of water. You can stay away from as many food dyes as possible and thats a great help. Proper nutrition vs. empty calories is really important. Lots of herbal remedies can help like grapeseed extract for example. They should be getting enough omega 3s etc.
But beyond that I think that all parents of autistic/ADD kids (like obw said they're all on the same spectrum) need to learn that their child is not going to be like every other child and thats okay and in fact there are alot of attributes in these kids that are quite awesome. If they do not fare well in English or some other subject its okay, there are other areas that they can excel in. Actually I think all parents need to learn that kids are not perfect, they're not what you expected and they're not you so just nurture them for who they are and what they enjoy and can accomplish.
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Suicide_Samurai
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
431 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 13:03:38
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I think labels like ADHD should just be used to describe people, much in the same way as you'd say, "This kid is disobedient," you could say, "This kid has ADHD." But it shouldn't actually be thought of as a legitimate illness.
"This kid is a fucking nightmare, so we sedate him with dope."
Not...
"This kid has an illness so we treat him with medication."
We only have the 'illness' facade because it makes the medication seem more acceptable and necessary. Is ADHD the only so-called-illness where we actually found a cure before we even gave the illness a name? Before we even considered it an illness? Nah, we just called it being an annoying twat with a short attention span before.
Imagine reading about a person in Tudor times who once said, "Leave him alone; he's got ADHD." No, of course not, he would of said, "Leave him alone, he's the village idiot."
Sure, it's a condition, but it's not an illness. It's just like, say, being an angry person is a condition. And shy people. And boring people. Some people aren't born the same as the rest of us. Shock! Better fetch the thermometer!
Since we gave it an official name, you're not allowed to criticize dumb, obnoxious people. Can't we just treat them and call them what they really are?
I don't know much about Autism, but Rain Man sure seemed like a bit of a nut job... |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 13:11:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Llamadance
It's funny, my wife is a marine biologist and consequently comes in to contact with many physical oceanographers (very mathematical) - she's convinced that many of them show autistic traits, but obviously manage to function in the real world.
As you probably know but perhaps declined to mention, this is referred to as Asperger syndrome, a "high functioning" form of autism. I read about it years ago in the Chronicle of Higher Education. These individuals, usually male, possess gifted mathematical and analytical skills and are usually found in scientific disciplines. I worked around a seismologist who I believe represented a classic case. As a seismologist he enjoyed a global reputation, but when you passed him in the hall he sometimes looked like he wanted to disappear into the wall. His speech was halting and otherwise odd. Unfortunately, due to his ability and ambition, he was also department chair which was a big mistake as he possessed off-putting social skills, to put it mildly. He was also married with children, which seemed somewhat sad judging from the glimpses I got of his family life.
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mosleyk
= Cult of Ray =
USA
607 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 13:44:53
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Carolynanna you have a wonderful attitude towards your son, and I do know there are those who truly to struggle with ADD/ADHD. But what about those who don't necessarily fit the diagnosis...especially adult cases of ADHD/ADD.
A friend of mine was always hyper, but a good student and really I don't remember anything that odd about her while we were growing up. Suddenly she gets out of college, gets married, marriage a bit rocky and about 5-6 years ago she decides she suffers from ADHD and goes on ritalin.
I swear she is so much worse today. She is obsessive (like leaves multiple messages if I don't return her call quick enough), she doesn't listen well, she has lost alot of social tact, she gambles, and she is just difficult to be around. She doesn't want to talk about it, and she insists it is a sign that she really does have ADHD when she acts scatter brained....but then why has it has gotten worse since she has been on ritalin and can justify things with the ADHD label.
The sad thing is that she really does have personally problems she would benefit from addressing, but her new label and drugs help her stay in a happy place of denial. |
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Llamadance
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2543 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 13:58:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Suicide_Samurai
Sure, it's a condition, but it's not an illness. It's just like, say, being an angry person is a condition. And shy people. And boring people. Some people aren't born the same as the rest of us. Shock! Better fetch the thermometer!
and when these conditions start to affect people's lives negatively - ie angry people become violent, shy people lock themselves in their house all day and tap away on a PC, then they need treatment. I think in this case there's very little difference between an 'illness' & a 'condition'. They require treatment to help people function normally.
I don't know what the arbitrary parameters are, but if someone needs treatment, then to me it's an illness. I guess there are accepted social norms within which people can function, beyond that they are weird, beyond that they are dysfunctional.
As for the excuses side of this, I did wonder if parameters for mental illness are widened and people become more aware to the point where mental ilness loses its stigma, then maybe more people will take advantage of the system. Does that matter though beyond a financial perspective?
Erebus, yep, I know it's Aspergers. The cases I mentioned above probably aren't as bad as your example, most of them are socially ok. But you can still see the traits. It is interesting that children of two scientists have a greater chance of being autistic.
What lies before us and what lies behind us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us -Ralph Waldo Emerson
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mosleyk
= Cult of Ray =
USA
607 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 14:14:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Llamadance
[quote]Originally posted by Suicide_Samurai
It is interesting that children of two scientists have a greater chance of being autistic.
I remember when that information came out. Children of lawyers were also included. (no kidding) |
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Carolynanna
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Canada
6556 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 14:24:59
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What exactly constitutes an illness? Or a dysfunction or disability or a disorder for that matter???
ADD and autism aren't made up though people.
There are definite differences in the brain and brain chemistry.
I still think they should use better testing that would give a definite diagnosis.
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starmekitten
-= Forum Pistolera =-
United Kingdom
6370 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 18:01:07
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I don't think anyone would deny that ADD and autism are real. What I think is the problem is the numerous cases where no one really knows what's wrong with individual A so they slot them in with whatever tick box diagnosis fits best. It is so common, in especially poorer single parent families, that a child gets one of these labels when it doesn't apply. I don't think it does the genuine cases any favours.
Dyslexia is another one, both my brother and my mother suffer from severe forms of dyslexia but I've come accross people at university who cry dyslexic to get the extra fifteen minutes in an exam and the free laptop and the mark up on shite spelling and they are not dyslexic.
[edit] half asleep posting, talking nonsense...
"You're not too big to go over my knee young man" |
Edited by - starmekitten on 07/21/2006 18:03:16 |
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danjersey
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
2792 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 00:26:01
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had i been from another time or place i might have been cradled in the warm embrace of labels above. i stared out the window instead, learning was just too painfull. i needed to relax amongst my surroundings watching and waiting for some thing to happen.
yep!
still stupid.
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ObfuscateByWill
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1887 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 02:38:00
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You know, I think it's inappropriate that we keep mentioning ADD and autism in the same sentences.
ADD is about attention-span and impulsivenss.
Autism is about living in a world a fair deal different than most.
*Release the bats! |
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Llamadance
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2543 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 04:28:59
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I don't think anyone's suggesting they are similar conditions, but they are conditions where diagnosis is on the increase. The question was whether this is due to a genuine clinical need in all cases, or a willingness to diagnose in an effort to label/give people a reason for behaviour without any real desire to make it better (like mosleyk's friend above or in the case of Heywood's dad's stepson)
What lies before us and what lies behind us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us -Ralph Waldo Emerson
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a guy in a rover
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
535 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 07:59:22
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My mum thinks that pretty much everyone, including herself, has Aspergers syndrome. She's always going 'he looks like an aspy' or 'she is on the spectrum'.
I think that there is a lot of misinformation put out there by dime store psychologists about this sort of thing and as a result people form shitty opinions on the subject, thinking that everything deserves a label and is treatable with drugs. I agree with most people on this forum about misdiagnois and labelling but I guess Im hardly an expert myself.
Kiss my ring...I am the greatest
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shrinktrapped - illness vs. excuse
