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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
 Posted - 05/21/2006 : 09:31:16
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is standard tuning not good enough for them? seriously... it pisses me off to keep having to tune up/down to play along with certain records... why do they take it upon themselves to tune down? it's not like it's a completely different tuning and can help you write new songs by playing in a different way 
FAST_MAN RAIDER_MAN - June 19th |
Edited by - PixieSteve on 05/21/2006 09:33:28 |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2006 : 14:24:33
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Some stuff sounds a step up..I mean, to ask something that's been mentioned before, does Velouria use a capo or not? I remember trying to play along to Metallica's Welcome Home (Sanitorium), and discovering it's tuned up at least a half step, as far as I can remember!
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2006 : 01:17:37
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The only reason I can figure is a tone thing, you get a slightly thicker, heavier sound - same reason you'd tune to drop-D. Also, it's easier to bend strings when they're a little slacker.
But still, I agree with you.
 I have joined the Cult Of Frank/And I have dearly paid |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7446 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2006 : 01:19:59
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There's a simple solution: buy a turntable and change the pitch to have the record match your tuning.
Denis
I love Guitar Wolf from the Erath! |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2006 : 01:49:11
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Or Pro-Tools, you crazy retro kid.
I have joined the Cult Of Frank/And I have dearly paid |
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2006 : 02:15:08
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| It's easier to sing along too. |
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Doog
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1220 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2006 : 03:27:48
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Yeah, it makes those high notes slightly easier to sing and the guitar sound a bit thicker.
And I honestly think they're more worried about that than if Johnny Practiseamp can play along at home 
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Nimrod's Son: tribute to t'Pixies - Live @ The Venue, New Cross, London - Fri 2nd June
www.myspace.com/doog = solo choons
www.myspace.com/casabonitaband = noisey stuff
www.myspace.com/weevilknievel = surfrockpop geekery
www.myspace.com/ukpixiestribute = Nimrod's Son |
Edited by - Doog on 05/22/2006 03:28:31 |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2006 : 03:31:52
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they should learn how to sing properly :P
FAST_MAN RAIDER_MAN - June 19th |
Edited by - PixieSteve on 05/22/2006 03:35:14 |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5157 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2006 : 07:29:37
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Simon and fbc pretty much nailed it - a bit thicker sound, easier string bends, and easier to hit those higher notes. I know the first band to really experiment with that was Black Sabbath, and they tuned down to C# so it was in Ozzy's register.
-Brian
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2006 : 07:37:32
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Of course, Alternate tunings are essential a lot of the time, otherwise certain songs would be impossible to play. A number of extreme Metal bands sure do favour those low tunings, especially the real grindy, punk-influenced guys. Carcass tuned down to B!
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Doog
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1220 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2006 : 08:47:10
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I tune to drop-A on a lot of my noise duo's songs. With an octave pedal. EEEEEEVILLLL
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Nimrod's Son: tribute to t'Pixies - Live @ The Venue, New Cross, London - Fri 2nd June
www.myspace.com/doog = solo choons
www.myspace.com/casabonitaband = noisey stuff
www.myspace.com/weevilknievel = surfrockpop geekery
www.myspace.com/ukpixiestribute = Nimrod's Son |
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Doog
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1220 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2006 : 08:49:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Broken Face
Simon and fbc pretty much nailed it - a bit thicker sound, easier string bends, and easier to hit those higher notes. I know the first band to really experiment with that was Black Sabbath, and they tuned down to C# so it was in Ozzy's register.
-Brian
I'm sure Iommi's chopped up fingertips had a lot to do with it as well, if not more- normal string tension proved too much so he used super light strings with lowass tunings.
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Nimrod's Son: tribute to t'Pixies - Live @ The Venue, New Cross, London - Fri 2nd June
www.myspace.com/doog = solo choons
www.myspace.com/casabonitaband = noisey stuff
www.myspace.com/weevilknievel = surfrockpop geekery
www.myspace.com/ukpixiestribute = Nimrod's Son |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2006 : 08:54:25
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He's a total hero for learning to play after loosing the tips his fingers!
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fbc
-= Modulator =-
United Kingdom
4903 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2006 : 13:07:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Carl
to ask something that's been mentioned before, does Velouria use a capo or not?
On the first fret, Carl. |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2006 : 13:21:23
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Indeed, Soren, I heard that before, and that's actually the way I play it-but as somebody mentioned before, in that Brixton, '91 video video that was posted he's playing it sans-capo. Maybe he tuned the guitar up a step from standard tuning, or something...the mystery continues. ;)
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2006 : 13:53:45
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well, i think the only reason you really need a capo is because of that bass note change thing? i don't bother with that... i just play a barre F and then up to F# and so on..
FAST_MAN RAIDER_MAN - June 19th |
Edited by - PixieSteve on 05/22/2006 13:54:21 |
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Doog
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1220 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2006 : 17:32:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Carl
Indeed, Soren, I heard that before, and that's actually the way I play it-but as somebody mentioned before, in that Brixton, '91 video video that was posted he's playing it sans-capo. Maybe he tuned the guitar up a step from standard tuning, or something...the mystery continues. ;)
Interviews circa Bossanova state that the band tuned up a semi-tone for some of songs on said record because it makes the guitars "ring better". I guess Blacky just uses a capo nowadays because it's in a comfortable range to sing. Or more likely, Kim and/or Joey didn't tune up on the original, and it's saving them having relearn their parts a step down.
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Nimrod's Son: tribute to t'Pixies - Live @ The Venue, New Cross, London - Fri 2nd June
www.myspace.com/doog = solo choons
www.myspace.com/casabonitaband = noisey stuff
www.myspace.com/weevilknievel = surfrockpop geekery
www.myspace.com/ukpixiestribute = Nimrod's Son |
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Halcyon
- FB Fan -
Canada
15 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2006 : 23:22:00
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| It really makes it incredibly easier for me to sing if it's tuned down half a step. It's just better in my vocal range. I imagine it's the same for most people. |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2006 : 01:21:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Carl
He's a total hero for learning to play after loosing the tips his fingers!
Try listening to Django Reinhardt, the guy lost two entire fingers.
I have joined the Cult Of Frank/And I have dearly paid |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2006 : 19:24:38
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Really?! That I did not know.
Here's another guy who's pretty nifty sans fingers. (The Dark Tower fans will know what I'm on about!)
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 05:05:10
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Django Reinhardt didn't lose the fingers but did lose all mobility in one and partially in another, he couldn't play lines with the partial one but could manage those nifty manouche triads (like Am6 would be low to high 5x45xx or even nicer an Fmaj7 would be 5x35xx - that one the root is on the fourth string). His wife used to sell plastic flowers in the marketplaces and the caravan was full of them when it went on fire, he got his wife out and was badly burned himself, so much so he spent nearly a year on his back in hospital and taught himself to play the way he did.
about the tuning thing, each tone has a different colour, Bb is the most militarysounding one and to me the most healing one is F#. I guess lot of rock bands tune down half a step to put a moodier grit to it. last year in the Pyrenees we had some crystal singing bowls we played for an afternoon. We didn't have the full set of seven, we had four, one with a tone of C, one with D, then G and F. Each tone corresponds to a different colour and chakra energy centre in the body. When you played the D bowl, orange, you could feel it resonate strongly in your abdomen, when you played the blue, G, the sensation vibrated in your throat.
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Gravy boat! Stay in the now! |
Edited by - Newo on 05/24/2006 05:13:28 |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 05:11:17
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ok.... but a lot of these bands are just doing power chords or simple barre chords. so, do they need a low D# in every song?
FAST_MAN RAIDER_MAN - June 19th |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 05:14:57
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because it's a different mood than an E, dirtiersounding.
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Gravy boat! Stay in the now! |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 05:16:33
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but my point is it's a bit shit if you need to have a d# in every song... and just play a high one, innit.
FAST_MAN RAIDER_MAN - June 19th |
Edited by - PixieSteve on 05/24/2006 05:16:53 |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 05:46:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Newo
Django Reinhardt didn't lose the fingers but did lose all mobility in one and partially in another, he couldn't play lines with the partial one but could manage those nifty manouche triads (like Am6 would be low to high 5x45xx or even nicer an Fmaj7 would be 5x35xx - that one the root is on the fourth string). His wife used to sell plastic flowers in the marketplaces and the caravan was full of them when it went on fire, he got his wife out and was badly burned himself, so much so he spent nearly a year on his back in hospital and taught himself to play the way he did.
I bow to the expert. I've tried playing one or two Django pieces, and they're seriously tricky even with four fingers. The guy was something else.
I have joined the Cult Of Frank/And I have dearly paid |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 05:50:31
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it's not about just having the D#, it's about the mood of the whole thing you're playing, frexample, when you play this riff tuned down half a step (this is Dam That River by Alice In Chains, it's also in drop D as well as everything down halfstep but that's besides the point) you get an entirely different sound than you would if you did it in standard, in this case perhaps standard would have been too bright and ringing for Jerry Cantrell's tastes.
-3--4--5--0---5-6-7--6--5--3--0----
-3--4--5--0---5-6-7--6--5--3--0----
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Gravy boat! Stay in the now! |
Edited by - Newo on 05/24/2006 05:51:38 |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 06:01:03
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quote:
Cheeseman1000 Posted - 05/24/2006 : 05:46:08
quote:Originally posted by Newo
Django Reinhardt didn't lose the fingers but did lose all mobility in one and partially in another, he couldn't play lines with the partial one but could manage those nifty manouche triads (like Am6 would be low to high 5x45xx or even nicer an Fmaj7 would be 5x35xx - that one the root is on the fourth string). His wife used to sell plastic flowers in the marketplaces and the caravan was full of them when it went on fire, he got his wife out and was badly burned himself, so much so he spent nearly a year on his back in hospital and taught himself to play the way he did.
I bow to the expert. I've tried playing one or two Django pieces, and they're seriously tricky even with four fingers. The guy was something else.
The first of his solos I learned was Blue Drag, I immediately tried to play it as fast as he did and picked up some unhelpful habits it took me a while to iron out again, so learn him at your own clip and nobody else's. Perhaps the most helpful guitar book I ever got was this:
has loads of solos transcribed and explained as to what scales, arpeggios and other little ornaments and textures he used to round out his sound, also there are multiple versons of songs spanned over years so you can see how he developed and became more bebop-inflected. He's not actually that difficult to play, what made him stand out was the heartfelt vulnerability and verve of his playing, rather than technical virtuosity (Grapelli his partner was a bit more technically proficient but Django gets you in the heart every time).
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Gravy boat! Stay in the now! |
Edited by - Newo on 05/24/2006 06:02:25 |
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Levitated
= Cult of Ray =
Chile
652 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 20:33:33
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| Great song Newo! Is Alice coming to Spain this year? |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2006 : 09:44:18
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Why did Pixies record Velouria a half step up?! ;)
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Doog
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1220 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2006 : 12:21:25
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quote:
Originally posted by PixieSteve
but my point is it's a bit shit if you need to have a d# in every song... and just play a high one, innit.
FAST_MAN RAIDER_MAN - June 19th
It's not about needing to play a D#, it's about making the guitar sound different and transposing songs for the singer, like a capo does.
Imagine what.. I dunno..Enter Sandman would sound like if all the E powerchords were played an octave higher. Right, it'd sound weak and wussy.
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www.myspace.com/doog = solo choons
www.myspace.com/casabonitaband = noisey stuff
www.myspace.com/weevilknievel = surfrockpop geekery
www.myspace.com/ukpixiestribute = Nimrod's Son |
Edited by - Doog on 05/25/2006 12:23:05 |
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ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2006 : 15:38:55
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| In my opinion open chords sound good with 1/2 half step down tuning. It varies it up and gives the listener's ears something different than standard tuning G-C-D-em. And it may just be on a subliminal level because not many people have perfect pitch and will say "oh that is half-step down open C chord" immediately. It creates a different mood as Newo said. |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2006 : 16:38:23
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quote:
Levitated
= Cult of Ray =
Chile
465 Posts
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 20:33:33
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Great song Newo! Is Alice coming to Spain this year?
they´re playing a festival in Madrid with Tool and Deftones over the weekend. I live in Barcelona, but I´m going to Tool in a small club on Monday so estoy contento.
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Gravy boat! Stay in the now! |
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why do bands record albums a half step down?
