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cassandra is
> Teenager of the Year <
France
4233 Posts |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7441 Posts |
 Posted - 07/07/2006 : 02:20:45
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Putain c'est grave. Comment peut-on écrire autant de conneries en si peu de lignes?
Denis
Your team sucks |
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cassandra is
> Teenager of the Year <
France
4233 Posts |
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cassandra is
> Teenager of the Year <
France
4233 Posts |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2006 : 12:47:35
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quote:
Those albums were monumental, and the
first two - Surfer Rosa and Doolittle, three if you count the 1987 mini-
LP Come On Pilgrim - were pretty much as close to perfect as rock
music can get. I won't even step on the toes of people who say Frank
Black and Teenager of the Year were Black's most essential solo
records, although frankly, with their overstuffed running orders and
occasionally throwaway songwriting, they exhibit many of the same
flaws currently being ascribed to Fast Man Raider Man.
Wait, don't Doolittle and the Orangellow Album both have 15 tracks? So how come, according to this guy, one has an "overstuffed running order" and the other doesn't? (And personally, I would say that "Silver" is more of a throwaway than anything on the self-titled album, but that's just me.)
"If you doze much longer, then life turns to dreaming. If you doze much longer, then dreams turn to nightmares." |
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cassandra is
> Teenager of the Year <
France
4233 Posts |
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Ten Percenter
- FB Enquirer -
United Kingdom
1733 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2006 : 02:30:18
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I read the Mojo review yesterday; it is very short but quite positive overall - three stars out of five, although it reads more positively than that. Maybe Metacritic will upgrade it and as a result FMRM will reach the dizzying heights of, let's say, 53? I will type the review soon if no-one beats me to it (hint, hint).
"I thought that I had reached bedrock, but I had yet to reach Birmingham..." |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2006 : 05:09:21
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From Popmatters:
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/music/reviews/frank-black-fast-man-raider-man/
Frank Black
Fast Man Raider Man
(Back Porch/EMI)
US release date: 20 June 2006
UK release date: 19 June 2006
by Ed Huyck
I have to admit, I lost the plot to Frank Black’s career a few years ago, somewhere around the 20th or 21st Catholics album, followed by the Pixies reunion (pretty much “meh” from me once it was clear they weren’t going to make any new music), so I missed his recent turn to country, folk and blues-tinged music. Which means I was rather surprised by Fast Man Raider Man, Black’s new two-disc, 27-song set, where instead of the usual buzzsaw howl, I heard a more laid back singer kick things off on “If Your Poison Gets You”.
As a career recreation, it’s not a bad choice. There was always a solid voice hiding behind the screaming, and you could hear a love for much more than just punk and alternative music even in the earliest Pixies songs. Add in an impressive list of sideman—from the Band’s Levon Helm, Buddy Miller, Tom Petersson of Cheap Trick, and others who spent time in Motown, Stax, and at Muscle Schoals—and you have a collection with an interesting pedigree and impeccable pieces.
So why am just as “meh” about this project?
For starters, folk and country are harder to pull off than they seem. Oh sure, Black talks a good game throughout, making references to the land, the dirty jobs many have done, and the appeal of the open road. Yet, I never even remotely believe what Black is saying. “Have you been to the fields?” he asks at the beginning of “Johnny Barleycorn”. Why, yes, Frank, I have. Have you? It doesn’t feel like it.
And while the players here are quite impressive, Black often doesn’t give them much to do. Some of the songs stay in the head (including the aforementioned “Johnny Barleycorn"), but others come and go without registering on the brain at all. It works best when Black adds in the eccentric twists that have always marked his best work. The boozy, bluesy vibe of “I’m Not Dead (I’m in Pittsburgh)” fits in perfectly with the I-don’t-need-you-but-I-still-want-you story that Black tells. “You Can’t Crucify Yourself” has a nice Neil-Young vibe and another heartsick lyric, perfect for wallowing in your beer. Other tunes explore other parts of Americana with varied results. “Elijah” sounds like Van Morrison being backed up by the Band, though mainly in a good way. Still, much of the second disc slips into a generic rock n’ soul vibe, making it hard to keep the songs straight, or interest high.
There is certainly enough solid material here for an album, but Black has committed one of the cardinal sins of modern music: this is too damn long. Did he not listen to any albums before heading down this path? Country collections, like punk rock records (you know, like those classic Pixies records), are best when they are half an hour or shorter. A simple 10-song collection would have done just as well as the overlong 27-song set he issued. (While I’m on the topic, I would support Federal legislation to limit all albums to 45 minutes or less. Just say no to musical bloat!)
Frank Black is trying to forge new directions for his music instead of sitting on his past laurels. Still, one would think an old hand like this would recognize what is great, what is OK and what should remain in the tape boxes.
RATING: 5/10
— 20 July 2006
-Brian - http://bvsrant.blogspot.com |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2006 : 07:27:20
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It's disappointing that PopMatters couldn't have found somebody more familiar with Frank to review this album. And it's a pity they don't allow comments at their site.
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7441 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2006 : 07:31:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Broken Face
(While I’m on the topic, I would support Federal legislation to limit all albums to 45 minutes or less. Just say no to musical bloat!)
What an ass.
Denis
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Jontiven
= Cult of Ray =
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2006 : 07:31:53
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"Too long" as a criticism tranlates into "Lazy rock critic cannot listen and type review in under an hour, ergo I will punish with my negatory comments." Sorry, this album is not easily digestible sausage factory music, you have to actively listen to it---and more than once---to get joy from it. Get out of the elevator, pointdexter, this is not elevator music. Elevate yourself with the music instead.
If it's too long, than download the tracks you like to your ipod, with a $19.98 list price what's the big problem with having too much music? Oh, you didn't pay for yours? Your readers might have a slightly diff p.o.v. regarding value for money.
If rock criticism wasn't filled with enough unqualified people before blogging became the rage, it certainly is now. But the Nashville Scene article is very nice. But any review that complains about the "length" of the album is, at this point in time, not only wrongheaded but redundant---it's an easy out. Yes, I guess Blonde On Blonde was too long, let's cut that long ass song. And Exile, let's dump the blues cover and those acoustic songs.
Thanks to all who are enjoying the record.
bye,
Jon Tiven |
Edited by - Jontiven on 07/20/2006 09:01:43 |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2006 : 07:35:07
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I agree that the review is a bit lame, but i don't think that criticising an album for length is always a bad thing. Some, nay, many albums are too long. That can be a valid criticism - whether it is or not in the PopMatters case is up for debate, but i don't think that epics are always the best decision.
That being said, the guy doesn't give much evidence of repeated listenings and/or careful look at the record.
-Brian - http://bvsrant.blogspot.com |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2006 : 08:18:00
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"A _bit_ lame" ?!?! Don't be so nice. The reviewer is a pompous little boy who didn't get his interview or do his homework. One of the most egocentric and ridiculous excuses for a review I've read.
Let's take it line-by-line:
1)I lost the plot to Frank Black’s career a few years ago, somewhere around the 20th or 21st Catholics album,
a) So you basically are telling us you come to the table with an anti-FB bias and probably aren't capable of a fair review anyway.
b) You establish that this article is about you, not the record.
2) "... followed by the Pixies reunion (pretty much “meh” from me once it was clear they weren’t going to make any new music),"
a) Irrelevant
b) Pompous
c) What the hell do I care whether you liked the reunion or not.
3) "so I missed his recent turn to country, folk and blues-tinged music. "
a) No shit. Read on if you want proof.
b) Yeah, so you're reviewing this why?
4) "Which means I was rather surprised by Fast Man Raider Man, Black’s new two-disc, 27-song set, where instead of the usual buzzsaw howl, I heard a more laid back singer kick things off on “If Your Poison Gets You”."
a) So you now tell us you haven't heard a single thing post-Pixies or even kept abreast of what FB is doing. Yeah. You DEFINITELY should be in the industry and reviewing his albums.
5) As a career recreation, it’s not a bad choice.
a) ?
6) There was always a solid voice hiding behind the screaming, and you could hear a love for much more than just punk and alternative music even in the earliest Pixies songs.
a) Again, resort to the Pixies because you've not heard a single post-Pixies record, but the point is one of the few valid ones in this article.
7) Add in an impressive list of sideman—from the Band’s Levon Helm, Buddy Miller, Tom Petersson of Cheap Trick, and others who spent time in Motown, Stax, and at Muscle Schoals—and you have a collection with an interesting pedigree and impeccable pieces.
a) Fine. You don't know who any of these people are, but at least you read the press release.
8) So why am just as “meh” about this project?
a) Honestly. "Meh" was used in The Simpsons as satire for a self-absorbed "MTV Generation" who couldn't be arsed. And that's exactly the ethos being brought into writing this review.
b) I don't care why/if _you_ are "meh". I want to know about the album.
9) For starters, folk and country are harder to pull off than they seem.
a) Fine, I'll grant another point.
10) Yet, I never even remotely believe what Black is saying. “Have you been to the fields?” he asks at the beginning of “Johnny Barleycorn”. Why, yes, Frank, I have. Have you? It doesn’t feel like it.
a) This is where I stopped reading.
Now after reading this far, I started this reply, and I've since read the rest of the review and it gets better. But the first half is utter shit and if I owned Popmusic, I'd fire his ass and the managing editor's. Spectacularly fire. In front of everyone and possibly with a boot to the ass out the door. The guy clearly didn't do his homework, probably spun and skipped his way through it once, if that. This is the impression I get reading it.
I don't care that he doesn't like it. He could hate it and write a review I would still respect. But it would entail putting some effort into it, ironically what he accuses Frank of not doing. As far as the too long debate, I don't think there's such a thing as 'too long'.
There _is_ such a thing as quality control, and there are songs that could've been left off perhaps. There are songs I dislike and would've kept off for myself. But the funny thing is that others seem to really enjoy these songs. And hate songs that I love. So who's to say what gets cut or what doesn't. If there were a universally reviled song, okay, maybe we could agree that should go. But if FB likes it, why shouldn't it stay?
The only reason I can think of is that perhaps if he'd taken what would become everyone's favourites, the record itself would be more universally loved and accessible. And then it would get better reviews. Etc. As a fan, part of me would like this because it would mean more recognition for my favourite musician. Also as a fan, part of me would be clamoring to get a hold of b-sides and other tracks anyway, or else lamenting that they were sitting in a can, recorded, somewhere in a dusty storage shed in Oregon.
I seem to be in a ranting mood this morning, I'm not sure why. I must be grumpy. :)
 "No man remains quite what he was when he recognizes himself." |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2006 : 09:45:04
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Apparently some people can edit their posts without getting the "Edited by" subscript automatically applied to the edited post. Maybe "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others". :) Not necessarily a bad thing but good to know anyway.
edit: I thought this might need a smiley thing inserted.
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Edited by - Erebus on 07/20/2006 09:53:44 |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2006 : 10:11:51
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Heh, you're the first one to catch that in all this time.
Yeah, my own editings go unremarked, not sure why. One of my powers. :)
For the record, my edit was commentary on part of Jon Tiven's post that he has since removed, so I felt it was no longer necessary in my own.
"No man remains quite what he was when he recognizes himself." |
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ScottP
= Cult of Ray =
USA
618 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2006 : 15:47:42
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| A proper golf clap to you Dean and your review of said review. |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7441 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 04:36:56
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The French edition of Rolling Stone has a nice review of FMRM, a half-page of interview with Frank, and Elijah is included on the sampler CD. The reviewer gives the album 3 stars 1/2 (out of 5 I think) and is one of the very few who says it might sound so-so at a first listen but gets much moer depth after each listening. You've got to give credit to a critic who listens to recorsd more than once.
I didn't buy the mag though cause the Strokes were on the cover...
Denis
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 07:30:08
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Frank Black's (and many other artists I like) albums have made me think (along with reading this thread, and particularly that PopMatters review) that instead of calling them "reviews", perhaps they should just call them "first impressions". I don't know what it is about music that require a more in depth experience, than say, a movie, but they do. Perhaps it's because movies are such an immersive experience, and people often are doing something else while listening to music (driving, vaccuming, having intercourse with barn animals [in the case of the PopMatters reviewer]). Imagine if a movie reviewer were say, cleaning out their garage while the movie was on in the background, and then gave it a negative review. We might not lend much credence to his opinion. So albums take a few spins. When it's a double album, a few spins more.
Many of the "reviews" I have read sound much like my first impression of the album; it's long, it sounds like countrified rock'n'soul, some of it blends together (frankly, 90% of albums sound all the same on first listen. It's the same group of people playing their songs on what should be a cohesive album. They should have a common musical thread and a measure of homogenaity, lest reviewers call it "schizophrenic" or "all over the place". Like a Ween record.) (I like Ween, by the way.). I don't think we should put up with crappy reviews. I can read a thousand reviews of FM/RM that say who played on it and what it sort of sounds like. I can also read the press release. If I want to get a first impression of an album, I can download it and listen to it myself once. I can get sample tracks from somewhere, or whatever. What I'm looking for in a review is a bloody review. The commentary on the lyrics is terrible. His lack of belief that Frank knows about the "fields" is ridiculous. Let's say Frank hasn't "been to the fields" (whatever that may mean). There's nothing wrong with writing in character; how many Pixies songs feature experiences that never happened to Charles? Did he see a lot of vampires feasting around him as a youth? This is, as has been said above, just lazy journalism. Imagine an article about the war in Labannon right now like this: "I don't know nuthin' about Hezbollah and what not, but boy do I hate...."
he's back jack smoking crack find him if you want to get found
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Edited by - speedy_m on 07/21/2006 07:33:20 |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 09:50:31
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All I can say to the above is:
Yes!
"No man remains quite what he was when he recognizes himself." |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 10:39:51
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Yes, I like that speedy. Made me think we would have two distinct topics, one for "first impressions" and one for "reviews". And the idea that Frank is often writing in character shouldn't be alien to a reviewer at such a high profile pop culture site. Reminds me Liz Phair's track record, which gives many the impression she was a teenage slut. Actually she had a conservative, upscale upbringing, and wasn't doing it "even when she was twelve". She still writes some of her best material in character, to include from male perspectives. Talk about an artist who has recently been victimized by "lazy journalism".
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 11:36:16
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I often listen to music while drawing.
Join the Cult Of Pob! And don't forget to listen to the Pobcast! |
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Grotesque
= Cult of Ray =
France
777 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 09:37:45
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I dont think journalists are really lazy: on internet, maybe, but for the paper press they work hard and they usually don't count the hours.
But hysterical, vain, and comformist, yes they really are. They all want to know what is going to be hot just a second later, that's a cliché but that is so true. "Snobs" is how we call them in french. I was already SURE they would only write first impressions of FRMR, but if they listen to it entirely, that's already a real luck according to their level.
I worked as a journalist one year or so, doing cinema reviews but I could watch the "rock'n'folk" guys just next door. Theay think they're rebel, that they're the sons of Thompson and Bangs, but they're ridiculous, it could be funny if so much honnest listeners wouldn't read and believe those articles. We just have to wake up and throw that garbage away.
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Jontiven
= Cult of Ray =
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 15:12:26
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Frank/Charles and I fought to make this a double album, for the fans and the public's sake. The record company wanted a single cd, it's easier to market. And you already know the manager's take. So for the critics to take the same point of view as the BUSINESS end of things as opposed to the MUSICIAN/ARTIST/FAN side---it just goes to show how brainwashed they are when that's their only criticism.
Sorry to rant.
bye,
Jon Tiven |
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1965
= Cult of Ray =
Australia
799 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 16:37:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
5) As a career recreation, it’s not a bad choice.
a) ?
"No man remains quite what he was when he recognizes himself."
I think he means career re-creation. Still doesn't get away from the fact that the reviewer is a dick.
(( I'm a Snake... cut in half 'cause I'm not the one you needed. )) |
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1965
= Cult of Ray =
Australia
799 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 16:57:11
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I agree with most that's been said above.. I am very grateful that it is a double album also. On my early listens, I could have picked a favourite twelve (and did) and been happy with that. But now having listened to FMRM 30+ times, I find something unique and amazing in every song, and I am very happy that none of the songs were left off.
Those official "reviews" remind me of those hacks that were on here posting months before FMRM was released. People who were privileged enough to have advance copies of the album and nothing better to do than come here and slag it off. Where are they now? who cares...
(( I'm a Snake... cut in half 'cause I'm not the one you needed. )) |
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ATBNG
- FB Fan -
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 22:28:07
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It amazes me how many critics fall back on that "maybe he should have picked half the songs" routine for a double album. It's pure hackery. It's utterly amazing how many critics try that tack in their reviews. It's inevitable when someone releases a double album.
In my mind, I'd prefer 28 songs to 27, but maybe that's just me. Even if I don't love a certain song, I'm still happy that Frank released it. I'm interested in what the artist decides to do above all. |
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danjersey
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
2792 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 22:30:16
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said by Ed Huyck
“Have you been to the fields?” he asks at the beginning of “Johnny Barleycorn”. Why, yes, Frank, I have. Have you? It doesn’t feel like it
so tell us Ed, how is it suppose to feel? define the fields for us all.
man thats a line to sing and this guy has the glass to knock it?
haha cult of frank i just read the rest for stopping at that very same point, nice breakdown. |
Edited by - danjersey on 07/22/2006 22:41:35 |
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1965
= Cult of Ray =
Australia
799 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 06:40:36
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quote:
Originally posted by ATBNG
In my mind, I'd prefer 28 songs to 27, but maybe that's just me...
The Japanese pressing of FMRM has 28-tracks (inc I Don't Live Here Anymore) released 26th July.
(( I'm a Snake... cut in half 'cause I'm not the one you needed. )) |
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ScottP
= Cult of Ray =
USA
618 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 19:39:38
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I like to stereotype internet music critics. They are invisible to me, so its easy to judge them as young, errogant, soulless, late-for-their-video-gaming-class, eager to accept the title of music reviewer-but not so eager about the responsibilities, bitter, trend gargling, punks.
I hope the next record is a quad with 107 songs on it. |
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windupbird
- FB Fan -
127 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 21:12:48
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"I hope the next record is a quad with 107 songs on it."
Ha! ha! Good one.
Me too. I'm really glad that Frank and Jon fought for this album to be a double. I honestly can't imagine shrinking it down to a dozen songs. There's so much amazing stuff on this record. I'm currently at the stage where all the songs have grown on me and seem to be playing in my head all at once. It's quite a symphony. |
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theonecontender
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
565 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 22:56:17
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| The more material the better. That being said, I am still determining songs I like most (or dislike most) for my version of a single disc fastman/raiderman. I'll post it when it's finally done, if yous care. |
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hammerhands
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1594 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 18:53:37
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I had Barleycorn and this whiny voice in my head for the last few days. The voice is gone and I'm left with only a song.
danjersey: "so tell us Ed, how is it suppose to feel? define the fields for us all."
Thank you DJ for helping to shut that voice up, and I'm pretty sure he has no idea what the fields are. |
Edited by - hammerhands on 07/24/2006 18:57:01 |
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fumanbru
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
1462 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 19:49:25
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my first impressions of said review in poop matters- “IT SUCKS! after reading it several times and taking it in over a long walk - “IT SUCKS HARDER!!”
someone has spent a lot of time and effort creating something artistic. it is their livelihood. have some respect and at least offer some intelligent criticism if you don't like the work. it really is a shame.
this made me chuckle. this is from the about part in the poop matters website:
"PopMatters is an international magazine of cultural criticism... We provide intelligent reviews, engaging interviews, and in-depth essays on most cultural products and expressions in areas such as music, television, films, books, video games, sports, theatre, the visual arts, travel, and the Internet.
PopMatters cultivates smart writers from the world-at-large. Our staff ranges from the multiple-degreed and/or well traveled, to young writers of high caliber, to 'seasoned' folks who punch the 9-5 clock, regardless of what type of degree, if any, they may hold. PopMatters recognizes that creative, compassionate intellectuals reside in all levels of society, in all types of societies, and we value their ability to provide intelligent, entertaining cultural criticism in the form of thoughtful, magazine-style essays. Many of our writers are called upon for their opinion by notable members of the media such as the BBC, NPR, MSNBC, Radio Australia, and VH1. Publications such as USA Today.com, Alternet.org, and Movies.com regularly pick up links to PopMatters articles and post quotes from PopMatters writers."
"I joined the Cult of Frank/ cause I'm a real go-getter!" |
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PowerSurge
- FB Fan -
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2006 : 19:17:50
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quote:
Originally posted by vilainde
quote:
Originally posted by Broken Face
(While I’m on the topic, I would support Federal legislation to limit all albums to 45 minutes or less. Just say no to musical bloat!)
What an ass.
Denis
I think that's the dumbest f-ing thing I've ever read from a "critic" or even a critic.
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ScottP
= Cult of Ray =
USA
618 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2006 : 14:43:04
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| Maybe we should give these reviewers the same respect as we do Frank's art and read the review 20 or 30 times before it starts to sink in and becomes a beautiful, beautiful review that we will always covet and possibly start data bases for. |
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Fast Man Raider Man reviews
