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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
 Posted - 07/22/2005 : 10:35:52
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doesn't anyone else wonder why they let him wonder the streets if they suspected he was carrying a bomb? sure, stopping him earlier might have wasted an oppertunity to catch others involved, but he could have set the bomb off at any time and killed a number of people, plus if he was arrested and kept alive they'd at least be able to question him.
imo the police fucked up and the whole "we suspected him to have a bomb" was bullshit.
 Oh let it linger |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2005 : 10:39:49
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One explanation maybe that in such situations fear takes over and people react in a harsh way to ensure safety not just for themselves but for the other people around. I dunno, I guess the police that jumped on the guy were shitting it as they might have been expected to be blown up at any point and maybe shooting him was a harsh but quick way of neutralising the threat. It is certainly a very tricky situation for the police.
This is a high class bureau de change, not some Punch & Judy show on the seafront at Margate! |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2005 : 10:42:57
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quote:
Originally posted by PixieSteve
doesn't anyone else wonder why they let him wonder the streets if they suspected he was carrying a bomb? sure, stopping him earlier might have wasted an oppertunity to catch others involved, but he could have set the bomb off at any time and killed a number of people, plus if he was arrested and kept alive they'd at least be able to question him.
imo the police fucked up and the whole "we suspected him to have a bomb" was bullshit.
Oh let it linger
You never know, maybe the police needed to get a quick 'hit' in response to the attacks to show that they are doing something about it... it wouldn't be the first time that this has happened in British history (Bloody Sunday being one example of when it has happened before).
This is a high class bureau de change, not some Punch & Judy show on the seafront at Margate! |
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misleadtheworld
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1222 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2005 : 10:47:40
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Everything has to be taken with a pinch of salt. I must admit, I do find most of the conspiracy theories rather ridiculous, rather one-sided, and have the same tone of I told you so, which is not going to make me question anything except a bizarre pseudo-socialist exploitation of events.
At the same time, the Government isn't telling us everything. But then, perhaps it shouldn't. As much as I hate to admit it, I'm sure they know how to handle these situations better than we do. I don't support the killing of a person, but I also don't support the killing of dozens of people.
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Edited by - misleadtheworld on 07/22/2005 10:49:38 |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2005 : 16:06:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Scarla O
The road in front of my flat (which I share with Edwina) has been blocked off since yesterday afternoon because of the bus 'bomb'...it's all very strange.
Bill! I totally forgot you lived round there!
Hows the deal with getting in to work for you and Edwina?
I think my journey may actually have improved, bizarrely enough.
I'm sort of with Tom here - we can speculate and theorise all we want, but we weren't there, we didn't see what happened, we're not police trained to fight terrorists, we're not responsible for preventing the potential death of loads of people. We can't say for sure whether it was right or wrong, but I wouldn't want to be the one to make that judgement.
Anyone here feel qualified?
How's that for a slice of fried gold? |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2005 : 16:07:20
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| They shot him when he was on the ground, apparently. Of course, there is the question of whether or not he could have had an explosive device or trigger for such a device on him. I don't know, I suppose I'd need to know more about the incident. |
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misleadtheworld
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1222 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2005 : 10:03:37
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4711021.stm
Shot man not connected to bombing
A man shot dead by police hunting the bombers behind Thursday's London attacks was unconnected to the incidents, police have confirmed.
A Scotland Yard statement said the shooting was a "tragedy" which was regretted by the Metropolitan Police.
The man was shot dead after police followed him from a south London flat to Stockwell Tube station on Friday.
Two other men have been arrested and are being questioned after bombers targeted three Tube trains and a bus.
The statement read: "We believe we now know the identity of the man shot at Stockwell Underground station by police on Friday 22nd July 2005, although he is still subject to formal identification.
"We are now satisfied that he was not connected with the incidents of Thursday 21st July 2005.
"For somebody to lose their life in such circumstances is a tragedy and one that the Metropolitan Police Service regrets."
The statement confirmed the man was followed by police from a block of flats that was under surveillance.
His death is being investigated by officers from the MPS Directorate of Professional Standards, and will be referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission.
Arrests
Two men are still being held at Paddington Green police station, central London, in connection with Thursday's attacks.
The first man was arrested at around 1630 BST on Friday during a raid on a block of flats near to Oval and Stockwell Tube stations.
Eyewitnesses said he was led away with a woman and child.
The second man was arrested late on Friday night, also in the Stockwell area.
Both are being held under anti-terrorism legislation which gives police 14 days before they have to bring charges.
Three devices found after the failed bombings were the same size and weight as those used in the suicide attacks of 7 July, which killed scores.
The fourth was smaller, apparently contained in a plastic box. The same chemicals appear to have been used.
They targeted Oval, Warren Street and Shepherd's Bush stations and a bus in Hackney.
1: Witnesses report seeing up to 20 plain clothes police officers chase a man into Stockwell Tube station from the street
2: One person says the man vaulted the automatic ticket barriers as he made his way to the platforms
3: The most direct route is via this escalator or the staircase that sits alongside it
4: Police challenge the man but he apparently refuses to obey instructions and after running onto a northbound Northern line train, he is shot dead
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I still stand by that this was very foolish of him, yet very unfortunate.
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misterwoe
= Cult of Ray =
Greece
675 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2005 : 18:48:37
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If this guy wasn't connected with the bombings than why in hell was he running? An obviously stupid thing to do in a time of heightened security. Sounds like a sad case of natural selection. I know that must come off as cruel, but is anybody else seeing what I'm talking about. Maybe he wanted to die. You know, suicide by cop. Happens all of the time.
Pablo Picasso never got called an asshole. |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2005 : 19:48:47
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This is a big fuck up by the police... I agree though Misterwoe, what was he doing running? I can understand that the guy must have been petrified that he was being pursued by 20 police... but running seems to be an odd decision to make especially in the current climate of London where the police were obviously going to shoot if he failed to obey them.
Another thing is that maybe the guy was hit by the fear of our terrorism laws and understood that if he was a suspect then chances were that he would be banged up without any rights for a long period of time. For an innocent person (and I bet that quite a few of the people apprehended under the new terrorism laws are innocent) this realisation would be something to make a person run for their life.
This is a high class bureau de change, not some Punch & Judy show on the seafront at Margate! |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2005 : 08:38:21
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yeah, obviously going to shoot him. wtf?
maybe he'd done something illegal not long ago, like steal something from a shop, or he had some drugs on him.. i dunno... something you wouldn't wanna get caught for, but wouldn't dream of getting shot dead for.
Oh let it linger |
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The Marsist
= Cult of Ray =
Ireland
730 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2005 : 08:55:47
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he was probably foreign
"To be known as an underdog - that can only be a good thing. It's better than sucking."
- Frank Black
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Zsolt G.
- FB Fan -
117 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2005 : 09:03:52
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This is something I'd expect to happen here in the states, where the police are just failed criminals. I thought in England it was all civilized and shit, and the cops politely tap you on the shoulder and ask you to accompany them to the station for some tea and a chat about what you've done wrong.
The Brazilian's brother said something to the effect that the "coalition of the willing" has already killed 29,000 innocents in Iraq, why stop now? Right on.
Oh and how dare you assholes criticize an innocent man for (supposedly) running and defend the filthy pigs for plugging a prone human being 5 times in the back of the head. This is some mafia shit, but worse. Maybe it'll be your teenager next time because he's got a tan and joint on him or something. |
Edited by - Zsolt G. on 07/24/2005 09:05:16 |
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misterwoe
= Cult of Ray =
Greece
675 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2005 : 09:32:31
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Maybe he didn't run. We don't know for sure, seeing as how the police here have lost all credibility. And yeah, five bullets certainly was overkill (were they all to the back of the head?). But IF he did run, which witnesses are saying is the case, than I will criticize him. I'm not defending those cops, but I'm pointing the unnecessary ignorance of his actions. In times of heightened security, officials are jumpy and nervous. The fact that he was not only running from them, but running in the Tube...maybe he didn't know about the threats of late.
Pablo Picasso never got called an asshole. |
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misleadtheworld
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1222 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2005 : 09:32:52
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It wasn't 'supposed', he was running. The police did actually accost him as he got off a bus, and he decided to run. I don't believe anyone here is defending the actions of the police (perhaps at most rationalising them), but it was still not the best idea to ignore police requests to stop, then to run into the nearest tube station, over the barriers and on to a train, especially after the last fortnight's events.
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Scarla O
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
947 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2005 : 00:25:48
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I thought I read that the police were in plain clothes? That would explain the guy's reaction quite well i think. |
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edwina
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
179 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2005 : 02:02:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Cheeseman1000
quote:
Originally posted by Scarla O
The road in front of my flat (which I share with Edwina) has been blocked off since yesterday afternoon because of the bus 'bomb'...it's all very strange.
Bill! I totally forgot you lived round there!
Hows the deal with getting in to work for you and Edwina?
I think my journey may actually have improved, bizarrely enough.
How's that for a slice of fried gold?
We're cool, cheers- thankfully we don't depend on London transports to go to work, so in that sense we haven't really been affected. |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2005 : 05:06:19
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quote:
Originally posted by PixieSteve
yeah, obviously going to shoot him. wtf?
Oh let it linger
I say that they were obviously going to shoot because if they seriously considered the guy a threat and he was running towards the tube, then in their eyes they would have no choice. It would be a case of shoot him or risk a load of people getting killed from another bomb.
I am not defending the police, but I am trying to understand their actions. I feel terrible for the guy who has been killed and cannot understand how the police could link an innocent person to the bombings. Have they come out and said what information they had to make them act in such a way?
This is a high class bureau de change, not some Punch & Judy show on the seafront at Margate! |
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misleadtheworld
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1222 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2005 : 05:11:22
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The BBC are reporting that his work Visa was rather out-of-date and could be the reason he ran when the Police approached him.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4713753.stm
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Shooting victim had expired visa
Jean Charles de Menezes, 27, may have run from police because of his visa situation, BBC correspondents say.
The electrician had come to the UK on a student visa, which allows people to work for a small number of hours.
Relatives of Mr Menezes are considering suing over the Stockwell Tube shooting, saying police will have "to pay".
Meanwhile, detectives are still hunting for the men who attempted to blow up three London Tube trains and a bus last Thursday.
Three men have been arrested so far, but it is thought the four would-be bombers are still free and may have access to explosives.
Meanwhile, Chris Fox, president of the Association of Chief Police Officers, gave his support to the Metropolitan Police's "shoot-to-kill" policy with potential suicide bombers, in the wake of Friday's shooting of Mr Menezes.
"Shoot-to-kill is very good headline but, in fact, what we have to do is have a series of tactics which range from disruption to the very, very final moment when you have to shoot and the aim is to prevent the criminal or suspect causing harm to other people," he said.
Under surveillance
However, the victim's cousin, Alex Pereira, who is based in London, said: "[The police] have to pay for [Friday's killing] in many ways, because if they do not, they are going to kill many people, they are going to kill thousands of people.
"They just kill the first person they see, that's what they did.
"They killed my cousin, they could kill anyone."
Mr Menezes was killed after fleeing armed police as he travelled to work.
He had been followed by police from his block of flats in Tulse Hill, which was under surveillance in the hunt for the group behind Thursday's attempted bombings.
Mr Menezes had boarded the number 2 bus to Stockwell.
Police said his padded jacket had heightened suspicions about his journey. He was shot as he ran on to a train.
Heavy coats or clothing are often worn by suicide bombers in other parts of the world to help them disguise their bombs.
The Independent Police Complaints Commission has opened an investigation into the circumstances surrounding the death.
In Brazil, relatives are demanding answers to why Mr Menezes ran and why he was shot by police.
Cousin Maria do Socorro, speaking before details about the visa emerged, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "I think they acted incompetently, like amateurs.
"You would think the British police would be prepared, but they are panicking and seeing everyone as a suspect.
"If you are going to have a war on terror, you have got to use brains to fight it not just brute force."
Friends of Mr Menezes in London said he had recently returned to Brazil for eight months to be with his father, who was being treated for cancer.
'Highly trained'
Fausto Soares, 26, said Mr Menezes had been sending money to pay for the treatment and was concerned how the family would now cope financially.
Former Prime Minister Sir John Major has defended the police's actions.
Speaking on the Today programme, Sir John said: "These officers are very highly trained. Very few of them are permitted to carry arms, but in that second they had no-one to help them, no-one to turn to.
"They had to make a decision. Do we take this dreadful decision to shoot, or do we face the risk that conceivably, if our worst fears are right, a bomb could be detonated that could kill people, including them, in the next second or so?"
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Joey Joe Jo Jr. Chabadoo
* Dog in the Sand *
1091 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2005 : 05:47:47
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Well. It's wartime... Mistakes are happening.
Prevention.
It's wartime.
...
**** |
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Scarla O
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
947 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2005 : 10:17:17
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That's no excuse and never will be. |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2005 : 11:06:48
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| I wonder why they had him under surveilance? |
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broken part
- FB Fan -
226 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2005 : 19:02:53
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Feel like going for a jog?
'See that fucker? I'm gonna pump 5 bullets in his head!'
'Any Brazilians?'
'I'm so cool. Remember, this is what freedom looks like.'
Pax Britannia: We're watching you, and we're shooting you!
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2005 : 21:13:20
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Its scary that police are carrying guns on the street in London, Ive never seen that before other than at Heathrow airport!
This is a high class bureau de change, not some Punch & Judy show on the seafront at Margate! |
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Joey Joe Jo Jr. Chabadoo
* Dog in the Sand *
1091 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2005 : 00:29:55
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Life during Wartime.
**** |
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broken part
- FB Fan -
226 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2005 : 21:36:40
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stfu with the wartime.
think like they're just playing half-life. they're not killing eachother - they're fragging.
geeks with guns. |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2005 : 03:14:44
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quote:
Erebus
= Cult of Ray =
USA
1000 Posts
Posted - 07/22/2005 : 09:29:18
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Owen, I don't trust any of your websites. Too often I've read on socialist sites that winning policy battles is all about the ends, and the means be damned. Where truth is regarded as fiction, why not lie? It's so easy to assert that the CIA or whoever was in on it, and then manufacture quotes. You consider yourself the enlightened skeptic and then believe whatever confirms your worldview. Good luck with that.
I´m not really sure how to respond about socialism, the word means nothing to me, as does capitalism - all I see is a feudal system, you know vassals and serfs and that sort of thing. And I didn´t post any quotes on this thread but if you find any of mine you think are questionable I´d be happy to source them. I´m coming to the idea theorising gets you nowhere really, they´re everywhere, instead just listen to what the people tell you and look for emerging patterns. I will say at this point too many of the heroes and villains share bankers for me to be comfortable believing what´s on teevee.
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Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to corner the fish market and marvel at the small acts of philanthropy he commits while depriving most of the world of fish. |
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Joey Joe Jo Jr. Chabadoo
* Dog in the Sand *
1091 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2005 : 03:16:02
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WAR!! IT'S WAR!!!!
And we are losing all along...
**** |
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Joey Joe Jo Jr. Chabadoo
* Dog in the Sand *
1091 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2005 : 03:18:22
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WASTE YOUR TIME WITH HUMANISM, BE PEACEFULL AND TOLERANT AND DIE IN THE TUBE...
Don't blame me, I'm not responsible for FACTS!!!!
**** |
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Surfer Rosa
> Teenager of the Year <
4209 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2005 : 04:27:06
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The only way to get rid of temptation is to yield to it. |
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Llamadance
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2543 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2005 : 10:35:33
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Is that for real? Please say it's a joke.
________________________________________________________________________________
No power in the 'verse can stop me
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Surfer Rosa
> Teenager of the Year <
4209 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2005 : 10:46:07
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Jpg that's done the email rounds today - don't know if it's for real, think it's just someone assing about in photoshop.
The only way to get rid of temptation is to yield to it. |
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Carl
- A 'Fifth' Catholic -
Ireland
11546 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2005 : 13:12:03
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| It probably should be for real!! |
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Joey Joe Jo Jr. Chabadoo
* Dog in the Sand *
1091 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2005 : 03:22:05
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Real or not, this is definitely what should be displayed. Things should be formulated in an explicit way. Politically correct or not!!!!
FOR F*** 's SAKE! It's time to find a way to improve. Damage is necessary if we want to defend a concept of civilisation which is slowly bowing to barbarism!!!
I'm not shocked by the Police' s behaviour. They could improve of course but they do their damned job! I would not be shocked by an information message like the one above. It says what we think all (though most of all do not dare to face the harsh light of truth)
I am shocked by ugly self-bombing islamists with strong misunderstood gay tendancies that kill low and middle classes people in the tube!
Aren't you?
I demand a better future!
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jediroller
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1718 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2005 : 04:37:57
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How many bullets in the head are you ready to take in order to defend your concept of civilization? Will you stop at 3, or are 5 necessary to prove your point against barbarism? Make it 7, it's a biblical number isn't it?
Eight is overkill though, I think everyone will agree. It's just a waste of bullets.
I jumped on the Frank Black Bandwagon/'Cause Pixies are so 2004 |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7446 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2005 : 04:48:59
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Yeah! sorry to derail but David Rees' comics is fabulous. Have you read the whole book, jedi?
Denis
I know the god of rock n roll / Yeah I sold him my soul! |
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Man shot by armed police on tube
