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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
 Posted - 02/26/2005 : 01:33:06
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I don't know if this topic has ever been done here before, but for the life of me, I can't remember it. (And I'm no stranger to the forum.)
There are still some people that believe that the moon landing was a hoax by the U.S. Government in order to give the appearance that they "beat" the communists in Russia (who were, as I'm sure most of you know, our main contenders in outer space exploration at the time) to the moon. The Soviets had given us a run for our money with the Sputnik, and the U.S. was not to be shamed by a defeat in the race to the moon, even if it meant faking the whole thing.
Most of the "evidence" to suggest that the moon landing was a fake has been debunked. The most popular reasons for doubting the moon landing seem to be:
-- Why does the flag wave on the moon when there is no air?
-- Why is there a departing shot of the lander when no one would be left to shoot it?
-- Why do the hills in the background of many of the photos keep reappearing in other photos, but with different foregrounds?
And there are many others, having to do with questions as to the high quality of the moon photos vs. the poor quality of the moon video; of shadows that should be appearing under someone not; and so on....
Each of these questions as to the moon landing's legitamacy has been answered, and yet the theory still persists. I tend to believe that the moon landing was real; I think I really would have to move to another country if I ever recieved evidence that it was not, from sheer disillusionment. What does everyone else think? Anyone on the forum give any credence to this theory?
http://www.redzero.demon.co.uk/moonhoax/
The Drummer from Def Leppard's Only Got One Arm. |
Edited by - glacial906 on 02/26/2005 01:33:57 |
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tobafett
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1713 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2005 : 02:00:11
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| the hoax is rubbish, garbage, AND claptrap. |
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jediroller
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1718 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2005 : 02:35:24
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I don't believe in the moon.
Pack all my shit, get on a plane
Follow the sunset for 24 hours |
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Frog in the Sand
-+ Le premiere frog +-
France
2715 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2005 : 04:01:35
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| Btw, this old hoax inspired a good thriller, 'Capricorn One', by Peter Hyams. |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2005 : 04:32:47
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WE LANDED ON THE MOON!!!
Pure Reason Revolution |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2005 : 06:21:35
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| i believe the moon landing was real. as you point out, much of the evidence for a hoax is explained away by people with far superior knowledge |
Edited by - PixieSteve on 02/26/2005 06:23:35 |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2005 : 07:12:16
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Does anyone believe that the many, many people involved would continue to keep such a secret for 35 years? Including the observers from other countries? No way.
There is more info at NASA:
http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/news/2001/news-moonlanding.asp
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Edited by - BLT on 02/26/2005 07:15:02 |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2005 : 07:24:43
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Glacial, good to see you again! Been wondering about you.
Apropos of nothing except that we are losing our chances to get firsthand knowledge from many wonderful old people, SpudBoy used to work at a nursing home back in the very early 90s, and one elderly gentleman there was quite the character. They ended up having a few conversations, through which Spudboy learned that the guy had designed the flag for the moon landing, so it would plant well, hold the flag out just so, and be packable for the trip, and so on.
I was intrigued when it was pointed out that some of the grid marks on the landing photos looked as if they were missing or obscured, but that was debunked - they're just faded out by the overexposure on the film from bright objects.
Buckminster Fuller had an interesting idea about those born before and after the moon landing, the latter being more open to believing we are capable of extraordinary things. I wonder what he thought of those that failed to believe it ever happened. I don't remember him mentioning the doubters and conspiracy theorists in "Critical Path".
When did the Moon Landing hoax conspiracy theory start gaining momentum? Seems like it was relatively recently. Like maybe in the early 80's?
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Edited by - apl4eris on 02/26/2005 09:52:22 |
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Frog in the Sand
-+ Le premiere frog +-
France
2715 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2005 : 07:59:06
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The blunder Neil Armstrong should never have made. |
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Elephant
- FB Fan -
Canada
240 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2005 : 15:17:38
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I said in my Grade 7 science class to my 65-something female science teacher that the telivized moon-landing was a hoax, and funded by the US goverment to ease the worry of tax payers.
I think those were almost my exact words, I raised my hand and said this while she was talking about how she watched the moon landing on TV and it was amazing.
She got really angry at me and started shouting about how it was not a hoax and how she had seen it with her own eyes... on telvision. I think it's because that generation really has nothing but that to show as their major accomplishment - therefore they become very defensive when you bring it up. |
Edited by - Elephant on 02/26/2005 15:18:43 |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2005 : 15:31:36
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No offense, but she might have gotten upset to have such unsupported bullshit said in her science class.
What have recent generations accomplished?
Do you think all space flight is a hoax? Unmanned missions too? |
Edited by - darwin on 02/26/2005 15:34:57 |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2005 : 16:02:58
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I think the Americans were just upset that sasquatches landed on the Moon before they did.
"Reunion? Shit union!" |
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The King Of Karaoke
> Teenager of the Year <
USA
3759 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2005 : 20:35:41
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OldManInaCoffeeCan
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1467 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2005 : 21:19:00
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You know, it's really amazing, all of the unmanned space exploration of the planets within our solar system, it's almost become ho-hum to view once in a life time photos of Saturn, Jupiter, Mars...(Sasquatches walking on the Moon)... I can remember in the early '70s getting a little bored with the Apollo missions,(they don't call me OldMan for nothin')
I think what's needed, to really get everyone excited, is for someone to invent some new mode of space travel, something really fast, I'm talking speed of light stuff,something brand new, completely revolutionary, or better yet, while I'm wishing, how 'bout WORLD PEACE, yeah, that would be better, why not stop all the meanness in this world, first. In the immortal words of Rodney King, "Why can't we all just get along?" |
Edited by - OldManInaCoffeeCan on 02/26/2005 21:22:55 |
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tobafett
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1713 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2005 : 21:27:46
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actually OMiaCC, i heard/saw some stuff that NASA's working on along the very lines you mentioned--the superfast way to get around...it was really interesting stuff. see, cableaccess IS worth it. and insomnia ain't all bad!
:) |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2005 : 21:54:27
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They need to hurry up with that warp drive!
"Reunion? Shit union!" |
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Frog in the Sand
-+ Le premiere frog +-
France
2715 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2005 : 00:50:19
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KoK, this one's for you:
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Edited by - Frog in the Sand on 02/27/2005 00:51:44 |
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Frog in the Sand
-+ Le premiere frog +-
France
2715 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2005 : 00:58:13
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The horrible truth about the moon landing:
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Elephant
- FB Fan -
Canada
240 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2005 : 03:10:02
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Darwin,
perhaps you're missing the point of the story I shared. It's not because I was saying that it was or was not true; it was simply the fact of how completely out of control she got when I had brought this into question.
I figured that she would have possibly took the time to discuss the allegations of the "hoax moondlanding". No, instead she simply dismessed it and said that I didn't know what I was talking about...
This is the same science teacher who took twenty minuts out of one of our classes to explain to us how her house looked kind of like a face, and how the windows... looked like eyes, and the door - a mouth.
I think that the moon landing was a gigantic thing for these people. However recent genrations have ultimatly changed the face of the world with things like the Internet - but even now it's not viewed as much of accomplishment.
I know in the future people will be looking back at these decades in amazment as technology and specificly the internet grew more and more... so really, that's what recent generations have done.
How about them' aliens?
...I saw some shotty film taken by a small Israelan boy of some distorted light in the sky shaking back and fourth - I'm convinced. |
Edited by - Elephant on 02/27/2005 03:13:38 |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2005 : 03:36:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Elephant
This is the same science teacher who took twenty minuts out of one of our classes to explain to us how her house looked kind of like a face, and how the windows... looked like eyes, and the door - a mouth.
Thank god I'm not the only one who has made this comparison.
Pure Reason Revolution |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2005 : 03:48:20
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| one house on my street looks particarly like a pigs face |
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Homers_pet_monkey
= Official forum monkey =
United Kingdom
17125 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2005 : 04:03:47
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See Elephant, maybe that teacher was smarter than you think.
Pure Reason Revolution |
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Newo
~ Abstract Brain ~
Spain
2674 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2005 : 05:26:03
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What exactly are the Space Shuttles shuttling anyway?
--
"Here love," brakes on a high squeak, "it´s not backstage at the old Windmill or something, you know." |
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tobafett
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1713 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2005 : 07:37:40
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| Military satellites, pieces of the Space Station, etc...food, water, supplies. you know it's just a truck for space, right??? |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2005 : 09:35:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Elephant
Darwin,
perhaps you're missing the point of the story I shared. It's not because I was saying that it was or was not true; it was simply the fact of how completely out of control she got when I had brought this into question.
I would get frustrated too if some kid threw in his unsubstantiated hoax talk into my lesson plan. I wouldn't have facts prepared for refuting the claims (no one can be prepared for everything) and it would end up distracting from the lesson plan.
quote:
I figured that she would have possibly took the time to discuss the allegations of the "hoax moondlanding". No, instead she simply dismessed it and said that I didn't know what I was talking about...
What a waste time (maybe she often wasted time, I'm not here to defend her). I wouldn't want to spend time in science class responding to every jackass claim (creationism, ESP, the Loch Ness monster, ect).
quote:
I think that the moon landing was a gigantic thing for these people. However recent genrations have ultimatly changed the face of the world with things like the Internet - but even now it's not viewed as much of accomplishment.
I don't want to spend the time googling, but I'm fairly certain that the generation that sent a man to the moon also started the Internet. Not much bravey involved in starting the Internet.
quote:
I know in the future people will be looking back at these decades in amazment as technology and specificly the internet grew more and more... so really, that's what recent generations have done.
Really? I don't find the spread of the Internet on par with winning WW II, pushing forward civil rights, or defeating the Soviet empire.
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ElevatorLady
= Cult of Ray =
385 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2005 : 11:12:36
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quote:
Originally posted by darwin
Really? I don't find the spread of the Internet on par with winning WW II, pushing forward civil rights, or defeating the Soviet empire.
I think the internet changed the world just as much if not more (defeating the Soviet empire? This is a joke, right?) than any of the above stated accomplishments.
Anyway, on topic: I think it's very unlikely that this was a hoax. Even if it was a hoax, they probably landed there very soon after anyway, so it's not such a big deal.
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tobafett
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1713 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2005 : 11:27:44
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Not a hoax. not even worth thinking about. not a hoax.
16 guys walked on the moon. and someday we'll go back. we left some stuff there, you know. :) |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2005 : 11:43:25
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quote:
Originally posted by ElevatorLady
quote:
Originally posted by darwin
Really? I don't find the spread of the Internet on par with winning WW II, pushing forward civil rights, or defeating the Soviet empire.
I think the internet changed the world just as much if not more (defeating the Soviet empire? This is a joke, right?) than any of the above stated accomplishments.
Anyway, on topic: I think it's very unlikely that this was a hoax. Even if it was a hoax, they probably landed there very soon after anyway, so it's not such a big deal.
Perhaps you weren't alive or not very aware when it felt like any day the US and the Soviet Union were going to destroy the world. As a kid I didn't think I was going to survive to be an adult. The Soviet Union was a true threat (more so than today's threats) and ending that seems to me to be more important than the easy access to porn and the ability to steal copyrighted music that the Internet has provided.
Standing up to the Soviet Union (starting with Truman) was a task that took sacrifice and determination unlike the Internet which is driven by the market (how to make money). |
Edited by - darwin on 02/27/2005 11:45:17 |
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ElevatorLady
= Cult of Ray =
385 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2005 : 13:36:54
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It's true I don't remember those times. But still I think the internet influenced our lives and everything more that the event of not needing to worry about dying too soon anymore. Wasn't that more like a return to the normal?
But it's true I'm no historian and I'm quite young, so maybe I can't see the big picture.
I stand by my opinion though that the internet is changing the future. I'm not saying it improved the world in any way, but I really don't find this important in this case. Whatever's behind it – money or self-sacrifice and good deeds – it's influential, and that's that.
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2005 : 14:06:09
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I'm 31, the Cold War was what I remember growing up with, that was the norm. I heard a plane, I wondered if it was a bomb. I don't believe anything has actually changed since the Soviet Union "fell". Those are false constructs. Just take a good look at money flow, and see how people are treated, how much power they really have over their governments, or their lives, or how much they even want if they could have it. (Devo's "Freedom of Choice" comes to mind)
I believe the internet was formed by DARPA, during, and because of, the Cold War. It was created to keep better track of reconnaissance and for logistics. The Web has changed the way we share information and conduct commerce by making it faster and further-reaching, but it hasn't changed human nature any more than any successive "war" or other conflict has. Every invention or human endeavor towards progress or self-preservation just speeds some things up and throws away others. I think it's fruitless to compare generations, just like it's meaningless to celebrate the "new millenium" in 2000, *or* 2001. New millenium for who? All those that arbitrarily adopted the Gregorian/Christian 7-day calendar? What have our grandparents learned about living and what's meaningful? What have we learned? What do we do in a 24-hr day?
What matters in the grand scheme of things is how we treat each other, not who went off to war in what year in what mad fog of mental frenzy. Space exploration and science won't change it, nor any wars. But they might provide more ways to take a look at ourselves and more opportunities for right action.
Sorry, just had to babble there.
a victim of collision on the open sea
nobody ever said that life was free
sank, swam, go down with the ship
but use your freedom of choice
i'll say it again in the land of the free
use your freedom of choice
your freedom of choice
in ancient rome there was a poem
about a dog who found two bones
he picked at one
he licked the other
he went in circles
he dropped dead
freedom of choice
is what you got
freedom of choice!
then if you got it you don't want it
seems to be the rule of thumb
don't be tricked by what you see
you got two ways to go
i'll say it again in the land of the free
use your freedom of choice
freedom of choice
freedom of choice
is what you got
freedom of choice!
in ancient rome
there was a poem
about a dog
who found two bones
he picked at one
he licked the other
he went in circles
he dropped dead
freedom of choice
is what you got
freedom from choice
is what you want
(repeat) |
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tobafett
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1713 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2005 : 14:12:47
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| right on apl...preach it! :) |
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SpudBoy
= Cult of Ray =
Equatorial Guinea
649 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2005 : 14:20:03
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As might be expected. I tend to agree with Apl on this, both philosophically and on the selection of a Devo song to exemplify.
As for the moon landing, I personally think the answer is "both". I think we landed on the moon and came back safely, but I also think that there was not enough media fodder from the actual mission, so NASA augmented it with some mockup footage. This was the dawning of the era of media manipulation via television, and has evolved to the level we see today with the administration releasing propaganda to local news stations as real news segments with fake reporters and all. Although that might be an easily spottable ruse to set a false boundary.
Only the paranoid survive.
"High fructose corn syrup: It makes the demons worse." - Wesley Willis |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2005 : 14:36:18
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quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
I'm 31, the Cold War was what I remember growing up with, that was the norm. I heard a plane, I wondered if it was a bomb. I don't believe anything has actually changed since the Soviet Union "fell". Those are false constructs. Just take a good look at money flow, and see how people are treated, how much power they really have over their governments, or their lives, or how much they even want if they could have it. (Devo's "Freedom of Choice" comes to mind)
I agree with the first sentence whole heartedly, the rest not so much. I grew up thinking the Cold War was how it was and how it would always be. That was why it was shocking to have so much change so quickly and without huge loses in lives. All of sudden East Germany reunites with West Germany without the Soviets or Americans blowing things up and without even a big complaint! That was unthinkable to me. To me that was a big change. That was an accomplishment by someone.
Sure in some sense people are still people and they will always be looking out for what they think is best for them (calling Erebus) and that sometimes means war. And the fall of the Iron Curtain didn't change that. But, the world landscape was radically changed when it was no longer clearly dominated by the US and Nato vs. the Soviet bloc. Did we just move onto another era of the US vs. muslims? Perhaps, but I think the worst case scenario now isn't as bad. In the 70s and 80s world destruction (the end of humans) seemed more imminent than it does now (to me). |
Edited by - darwin on 02/27/2005 14:38:26 |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2005 : 15:35:23
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Well, there are still plenty of nuclear weapons around. Maybe national leaders aren't threatening each other with them as much as they used to, but that doesn't mean there's no chance of their being used.
quote:
I think it's fruitless to compare generations, just like it's meaningless to celebrate the "new millenium" in 2000, *or* 2001. New millenium for who? All those that arbitrarily adopted the Gregorian/Christian 7-day calendar? What have our grandparents learned about living and what's meaningful? What have we learned? What do we do in a 24-hr day?
Makes sense to me. I think a lot of people have the desire to make the times in which they're living seem important, but such things can really only be decided in retrospect.
"Reunion? Shit union!" |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2005 : 16:17:04
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quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
I'm 31, the Cold War was what I remember growing up with, that was the norm. I heard a plane, I wondered if it was a bomb. I don't believe anything has actually changed since the Soviet Union "fell". Those are false constructs. Just take a good look at money flow, and see how people are treated, how much power they really have over their governments, or their lives, or how much they even want if they could have it. (Devo's "Freedom of Choice" comes to mind)
I believe the internet was formed by DARPA, during, and because of, the Cold War. It was created to keep better track of reconnaissance and for logistics. The Web has changed the way we share information and conduct commerce by making it faster and further-reaching, but it hasn't changed human nature any more than any successive "war" or other conflict has. Every invention or human endeavor towards progress or self-preservation just speeds some things up and throws away others. I think it's fruitless to compare generations, just like it's meaningless to celebrate the "new millenium" in 2000, *or* 2001. New millenium for who? All those that arbitrarily adopted the Gregorian/Christian 7-day calendar? What have our grandparents learned about living and what's meaningful? What have we learned? What do we do in a 24-hr day?
What matters in the grand scheme of things is how we treat each other, not who went off to war in what year in what mad fog of mental frenzy. Space exploration and science won't change it, nor any wars. But they might provide more ways to take a look at ourselves and more opportunities for right action.
Sorry, just had to babble there.
a victim of collision on the open sea
nobody ever said that life was free
sank, swam, go down with the ship
but use your freedom of choice
i'll say it again in the land of the free
use your freedom of choice
your freedom of choice
in ancient rome there was a poem
about a dog who found two bones
he picked at one
he licked the other
he went in circles
he dropped dead
freedom of choice
is what you got
freedom of choice!
then if you got it you don't want it
seems to be the rule of thumb
don't be tricked by what you see
you got two ways to go
i'll say it again in the land of the free
use your freedom of choice
freedom of choice
freedom of choice
is what you got
freedom of choice!
in ancient rome
there was a poem
about a dog
who found two bones
he picked at one
he licked the other
he went in circles
he dropped dead
freedom of choice
is what you got
freedom from choice
is what you want
(repeat)
This doesn't pertain to the topic in any way, shape or form, but A Perfect Circle did a really cool cover of that song on their new "Emotive" album, which I just picked up a couple of days ago.
Actually, that album does pertain to issues such as war, political dishonesty and the potential end of the human race, so I guess it does pertain in a very indirect way.
The Drummer from Def Leppard's Only Got One Arm. |
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Elephant
- FB Fan -
Canada
240 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2005 : 18:42:17
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You people are completely out of control! Out of anyone, I think Frank Black fans are the people who should be open to ideas then anyone else in the world... like ALIENS and SANSQUANCHES and such.
...and I think you're getting your INTERNET related facts confused - the military never created the internet; I created the internet, with three of my best friends one night in my basement.
Anyways, I'M SORRY THAT IN GRADE 7 I TOLD MY SCIENCE TEACHER THAT SHE DIDN'T REALLY KNOW IF MAN LANDED ON THE MOON OR NOT. I'm sorry that I had to type that last sentance in all capitals, and I'm sorry that obviously the people posting in this thead are too obsessed with their anti-Soviet-Union agenda then they are with the internet.
Maybe there wouldn't BE wars if the internet was around earlier, because that way all of the self-opinionated hippster ass-holes in the world would have changed the course of society - much like they're doing today, by creating anti-Bush websites with Yahoo and Geocities. |
Edited by - Elephant on 02/27/2005 18:48:31 |
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Topic |
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The Moon Landing -- Hoax or Fact?
