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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
 Posted - 12/22/2009 : 12:37:16
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| I found this article ("Cosmic-ray-driven electron-induced reactions of halogenated molecules adsorbed on ice surfaces: Implications for atmospheric ozone depletion" by Qing-Bin Lu in Physics Reports), but I'm not sure it is the right one. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2009 : 12:41:40
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| Is that intended as a metaphor? |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2009 : 12:51:13
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| No, I was going to be great guy and post the pdf for you, but it doesn't seem to match the article mentioned in the popular article. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
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Llamadance
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2543 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2009 : 22:02:41
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quote:
Originally posted by The Champ
I guess you need to buy the PDF so we can't look at the study or see the graphs.
I think that this study is interesting as it sort of relates to the sun spot cosmic ray theory of climate change in which cosmic rays interact with I think aerosols in the atmosphere and create cloud cover which cools the earth, a theory I was made aware of about 3 years ago, which was only demonstrated in a lab in 2006? Of course this goes in the opposite direction. It also makes me think of the statements "the science is in", "debate is over" and how ludicrous they are.
It doesn't mention sun spots as far as I know, just cosmic rays. It is interesting, yes, and as both darwin and I have said, nothing is set in stone, just a weighing up of the evidence to balance probabilities.
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
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Llamadance
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2543 Posts |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2009 : 02:12:47
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Well, firstly I don't think the guy is a very good speaker, but that's by the by. Secondly he claims that anthropogenic causes account for 1 degree F of global warming or something in the last 50 years, but he also says the biggest uncertainty is that scientists don't understand how cloud formation comes into the equation. That's quite a big uncertainty I think, and not the only one.
The hypothesis that the recent rise is caused by the greenhouse of effect from CO2 emissions seems, according to this guy, to be based on the fact that it agrees with the rough calculations. It's certainly worth considering, but in my view this is far from conclusive proof. It is not a substantial rise, however you look at it, and it has leveled off.
The IPCC state that it's 10% likely that cloud formation is cancelling out global wamring from CO2 levels, and he says 30%. It's a highly complex phenomenon and even the experts don't fully understand all the mechanisms that underpin climate evolution. |
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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <
Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2009 : 02:13:31
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quote:
Originally posted by pot
quote:
Originally posted by trobrianders
The findings are the findings. They are constant and maybe even correct.
In the 1970's it was global cooling, 50 years before that is was global warming again. 50 years before that it was probably electricity is going to destroy the world. It is always something. The findings about climate change are far from being constant. They are all over the place, and I think you could probably draw just about any conclusion out of it that you wanted.
Did you really misinterpret or are you being disingenuous? My point in context was clear; The findings of any one IPCC report are constant, what people have to say about them is subject to change.
Of course findings do not remain constant from report to report as new data comes in, new models of analysis etc. I think you're just being difficult pot.
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Ed is the hoo hoo |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2009 : 02:15:44
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| I can't be fucking bothered with this. It's just one slander after another. I'm out. |
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The Champ
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
736 Posts |
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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <
Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2009 : 03:41:25
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quote:
Originally posted by pot
I can't be fucking bothered with this. It's just one slander after another. I'm out.
Don't exaggerate pot. This is only the first time I've slandered you , well on the subject of climate change at any rate. I may have slandered you in one or two other threads but that was on entirely different subjects. I don't think they count here.
You can't seriously be suggesting we disregard the IPCC's findings because a long long time ago humans believed the world was flat?
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Ed is the hoo hoo |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2009 : 06:31:54
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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <
Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2009 : 08:50:01
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Damn you floop. Go tidy up your "Ask floop a question" room. The grown ups are talking.
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Ed is the hoo hoo |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2009 : 09:01:12
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quote:
Originally posted by trobrianders
Damn you floop. Go tidy up your "Ask floop a question" room. The grown ups are talking.
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Ed is the hoo hoo
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Llamadance
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2543 Posts |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2009 : 09:10:23
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| You guys are even more juvenile that I had previously given you credit for. |
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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <
Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2009 : 09:10:37
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Alright I've had a good cry. I feel better now. Oprah was right. She's always right.
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Ed is the hoo hoo |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2009 : 09:12:35
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| I went for a walk in the hills, where the snow lay from yesterday. It's now melting, yet more evidence of global warming. |
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Llamadance
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2543 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2009 : 09:19:37
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ach pot, no offense meant. I still don't understand floop's first picture.
Your snow's melting, even in the hills? We didn't get above freezing today, it's bloody baltic.
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Edited by - Llamadance on 12/23/2009 09:20:02 |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2009 : 09:21:53
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It's hitting the minus 10's in scotland tonight, down to -16 in some places. Tomorrow the warmer weather is moving in.
I know this because I saw a patch of ground where the grass was bear.
And floop's picture, me neither... Look's a bit like one of my old physics lecturers, totally threw me. |
Edited by - pot on 12/23/2009 11:30:15 |
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Llamadance
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2543 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2009 : 09:26:05
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aye, I'm not far from Tyndrum where it was -12 last night. Forecast for tomorrow is still for it to stay below freezing. There's a hill lochan nearby which we might go skating on, which will be nice. (or we'll hunker down and keep warm)
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2009 : 09:53:09
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| If you don't know Abe Vigoda, there's no hope. |
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Llamadance
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2543 Posts |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2009 : 12:52:41
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Something I was just pondering. There is a lot of debate surrounding the hockey stick and the fact that it appears to omit variations over the past 1,000 years such as the medieval warm period and the little ice age. It's all based on ice core data and tree rings, and I don't claim to understand exactly how they make these seemingly miraculous measurements about our past, but in any case there is a margin of error surrounding the date, so I would surmise that it's entirely possible that either scenario is correct, flat line or significantly variable. In a lottery it is equally probably that the sequence of numbers 1 2 3 4 5 6 are drawn as, say, 13 45 23 32 8 24, although because we relate the first series of numbers to some form of order it seems less likely. Anyway, I saw a clip of some propaganda recently, I can't remember from which pole, but it showed a comparison between the two graphs the flat one and the variable one and the variable one included a graph showing the medieval warm period only in this one it showed the maximum temperature as lower than the recent increase. If it really is lower that present day temperatures, then why do I keep hearing 'warmest for 1,000 years', when you could probably say warmest for way longer than that. How warm was it in the medieval warm period? It must have been warmer because the vikings were growing vegetables there during that time.
As far as I know too, the only data going back 100,000's of years is from the vostok ice core data, or ice data anyway. The graphs that show CO2 levels roughly following the CO2 levels and temperature levels. How much can we place our trust in a measurement like that that comes from the same source? |
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Ziggy
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
2462 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2009 : 00:26:06
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| I'd agree with you there, a pretty daft story! |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
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trobrianders
> Teenager of the Year <
Papua New Guinea
3302 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2009 : 15:01:24
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
If that's what Katie Holmes did to the twerp imagine what Carey Mulligan could have achieved.
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Ed is the hoo hoo |
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gyaneshwar
- FB Fan -
194 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2009 : 06:40:56
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quote:
Originally posted by pot
http://climategate.tv/?p=667
I've been listening to you, pot, but a one hour special from Rupert Murdoch isn't going to convince me. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2009 : 07:57:14
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How about you consider how little evidence there is for the AGW then. Because, come on, there really isn't much is there.... I've been looking into the Hockey stick graph and the data it supposedly comes from, and I find it quite laughable that anyone could take that and deduce from it that CO2 is causing global warming beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Anyway, whatever you want to think is up to you. I'm not here to argue a case for either side so much as I am here to discuss the evidence from both sides and weigh it up accordingly in as objective a way as I can.
In the spring of last year climatologists gave out a long range (ie. 3 months) forecast for the british summer weather. Guess what, they got it totally wrong. And it's not the first time, so how anyone can believe in this hype that they tell you the world is going to between 1 and 6 degrees warmer in 100 years is beyond me... |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2009 : 09:44:58
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quote:
Originally posted by pot
I find it quite laughable that anyone could take that and deduce from it that CO2 is causing global warming beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Strawman. As has been said many, many times, NOTHING is without a shadow of a doubt. |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2009 : 10:04:35
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| Repeating the same mute point over and over again will not add weight to your argument. |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2009 : 16:41:36
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| How about you quit repeating the lie and then I'll quit pointing out that it's a lie? |
Edited by - darwin on 12/28/2009 16:41:46 |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2009 : 18:23:12
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quote:
Originally posted by pot
Repeating the same mute point over and over again will not add weight to your argument.
It's a MOOT point, not a MUTE point.
- Brian |
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pot
> Teenager of the Year <
Iceland
3910 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2009 : 18:34:25
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| ... |
Edited by - pot on 12/28/2009 18:37:53 |
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Topic |
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things to talk about - climate change
