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remig
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1734 Posts |
 Posted - 10/04/2004 : 15:05:27
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Does that count for France, this Soundscan thing?
Because if not, I really consider not buying it, I consider I have given Frank enough money.
And the next time he tours in France I will try to not pay my tickets and stole a t-shirt.
Ah ah ah I can't even imagine myself doing that!
I ALREADY LOVE HONEYCOMB!
***********************************************
So you have no point of reference, Donny.
You're like a child that wanders INTO THE MIDDLE OF A MOVIE! |
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Jontiven
= Cult of Ray =
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2004 : 16:09:22
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| bye |
Edited by - Jontiven on 10/19/2004 15:21:54 |
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dogjones
- FB Fan -
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2004 : 16:36:08
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im gonna stay away from the whole "stealing is stealing" thing, but i do wanna touch on the social aspect of this thread cuz i feel like running my mouth via my fingertips...
in the late 80s i belonged to a mail-tape-trading list where a group of 5-10 people over the years would mail a paper-list of all our purchases to a master listmaker who would send us the month's master so we could get more music from each other or ask for a complilation.
$2 decent quality blank tape - $1 postage - appx. 2 week wait time
now in the late 90s we got a computer in almost every home of people who have expendable income to purchase things like $15 CDs...most have high speed internet to boot. the use of computers by the common end-user type consumer and their intelligence in using them is also coming up to a level where obtaining illegally traded material can be put into almost anyone's hands.
10-25 cent blank CD - mintues to 2 hours for a full download + burn
the music buisness is changing fast. distribution is changing fast. we're no longer living in the world of ten years ago...but...people still gotta get paid. the studio, the artwork, the PR, the studio muscians, the engineer, etc are things you cant pirate without exchanging favors.
the big label blah blah blah..yeah, they stole from us, they robbed us, they ripped us off...metellica probally dont need anyone's money cuz they make a lot of it on the road. the loss of sales to them leads to less airplay leads to the lack of new blood coming to hear you etc etc.
but, its more important than ever to actually buy the indie label and self-produced works if you want that label/artist to stick around without becoming a weak shell of what they used to stand for musically or even stick around at all.
its not all doom/gloom for the indies...the rules and methods to success just arent laid out yet. a few artists are finding new ways to get their music out and make money on it, but there's no sure-fire handbook or method that works as well as the flawed, yet effective old distribution methods worked.
a lot of indie labels/artists that got help from online CD sales in 94/95+ from joe sixpack in bumfuck, arkansas who's record stores for 100 miles dont have anything but top20 radio on sales are now dealing with the fact that these same people savy enough to hunt down the website to buy a CD from the label direct can just hop on a filesharing service and cut out that middle man.
its a brave new world for music and unless the world adopts protection for US copyrights (doubtful) we're in for even more changes in how music is made and distributed.
wooha and etc.
/end rant
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Mike Rutherford
- FB Fan -
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2004 : 19:17:41
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quote:
but, its more important than ever to actually buy the indie label and self-produced works if you want that label/artist to stick around without becoming a weak shell of what they used to stand for musically or even stick around at all.
And according to all numbers that I have heard, filesharing has actually worked to INCREASE indie sales. I've read several articles in which small label heads have said as much.
I think "indy" music fans tend to be much more willing to go out and support the working man and we tend to be more "organic" to boot. That's why so many of us love the straight to two track work of FB and that's why so many of us will still go out and buy vinyl.
As for artists like Metallica, Britney, or whoever is flavor of the week, I could care less if downloading works to destroy their careers. Might sound mean or ill-spirited of me, but I feel as I feel. Get rid of the fluff and you'll soon find there's more substance out there frequently releasing albums and frequently playing nice, intimate club shows. Downloading, from all aspects I have noticed, tends to kill the "machine" while it helps to expose those whom are not caught up in the cogs of the wheels......... |
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leica
- FB Fan -
USA
74 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2004 : 21:54:51
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| Well I'd certainly say that is true enough in my case; but I'm not sure if it is a chicken/egg thing. |
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cindy lou
- FB Fan -
141 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2004 : 23:43:27
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woW! i downLoaded 'honeyComb' and 'my life is iN storage' and they sound amazing! wheN i fiRst cAme across 'honeycOmb' i dOn't believe it to be fRank blaCk as the sound was completLey deferent from anything his done. can'T wait to hear the real version mister Jontiven... hopefUlly i can wait till ze album to be rEalesed. but then again i can neVer suck on a sucker as i must cHomp iT!
i believe in you perfect face
THE FASTEST TIME TO TYPE A MILLION: Between 1982 and 1998, Aussie Les Stewart typed the numbers one to one million in words. |
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Mac E. Doobage
= Cult of Ray =
503 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2004 : 03:52:04
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I agree. Just wait for the thing to be released and ease up on the instant gratification. When a song is downloaded and people say--"oh I'm GONNA buy it"--that's like running into the record shop and stealing a box full of discs and yelling "oh I'm GONNA buy it--but let me send it to 40 other people, who's buying power I have NO control over." Not fair to Frank. Not right. Don't do it.
quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
I'm not judging anyone's downloading practices, nor trying to restart an old debate, just saying that out of respect for FB, we don't coordinate such things here.
 "Join the Cult of Frank 2.0 / And you'll be enlightened (free for 1.x members)"
Awwwwwwwwwww Lil' Buddage! |
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nekom
- FB Fan -
23 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2004 : 06:49:53
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quote:
Originally posted by eebee
Honeycomb Lyrics
The old churchyard,
Is where I faded,
She watched me while,
I fell unaided,
And in my time
When God's army came and got me
I could not find my honeycomb x3
Cherry brown,
Lips of maple
Olive greens
Her eyes in basswood
And in that town
As I walk as a deserter
I could not find my honeycomb x 3
Dance for god
Dance for maybe
The rich will love
A fake ?urany?
And in my mind
As I fly above the churchyard
I could not find my honeycomb x6
Could this be about Joseph Smith?
Deseret:
http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/bom/deseret_eom.htm
Joseph Smith's defenestration:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith#Smith.27s_death_in_Carthage |
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kingphilbert
= Cult of Ray =
USA
356 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2004 : 07:37:34
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I am jealous that you all have heard this already but I don't have soulseek or anything on a Mac to get it so I guess I will abstain and make the CD worth the wait. I am very interested in the prospect of a second disc though. I hope we get this pre 2005. Christmas would be nice.
"I mix twinkie's and ding-dong's all the time. In Europe, they call it a Dinkie!" |
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Frog in the Sand
-+ Le premiere frog +-
France
2715 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2004 : 08:03:38
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| According to Jon Tiven, the (double?) album should come out in March '05. |
Edited by - Frog in the Sand on 10/05/2004 08:05:38 |
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switchy
- Gigographer -
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2004 : 10:09:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Jontiven
He also played on the Arthur Alexander tribute I produced which Frank performed on, it's called ADIOS AMIGO and I believe it is still in print.
ooh, I have that. Frank's "Old John Amos" is great. Unfortunately, I don't think it's in print any longer. Not according to Amazon. They do have many copies cheaply available from third parties, however:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000006LFR/beforthewarme-20
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hilljack
- FB Fan -
33 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2004 : 11:04:54
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quote:
Originally posted by kingphilbert
I am jealous that you all have heard this already but I don't have soulseek or anything on a Mac ...
Just in case you Mac users didn't know:
http://nicotine-app.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl
While not quite as good as Soulseek, it operates over the same network and works pretty well. |
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frankblackphx
= Cult of Ray =
USA
287 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2004 : 07:42:25
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Jon,
Just picked up the Ellis Hooks CD Uncomplicated. I was curious when you compared him to Redding and Fogerty, two of my favorite artists. I also hear some Sam Cooke in Ellis as well. Great CD and recommendation. "That's Not What I Need" is a brilliant song. It sounds like Otis Redding is living through Ellis again. Amazing.
BTW, I love what I have heard of Honeycomb. Great production. Who plays the Guitar lead in My Life's In Storage? I love it. Can't wait to buy the finished product when it is released.
Thanks again Jon.
Dan
I got me so down I got me a headache. |
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Jontiven
= Cult of Ray =
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2004 : 08:11:35
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| bye |
Edited by - Jontiven on 10/19/2004 15:22:28 |
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remig
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1734 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2004 : 08:25:27
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Ha!
I did to but it was certainly less exciting!
So any new news to deliver?
***********************************************
So you have no point of reference, Donny.
You're like a child that wanders INTO THE MIDDLE OF A MOVIE! |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2004 : 10:28:04
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i don't know how soundscan works but i know that in Italy FB records are distributed badly. i have to wait at least 2-3 weeks after the official release to get a copy if i'm lucky. i hope that amazon counts in soundscan cause that's were i get the first copy (i buy at least 3 every time but i have to get the first one as soon as it is out)
 join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
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Bartholomew
= Cult of Ray =
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2004 : 14:53:05
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| Man oh man, this Ellis Hooks sounds good. I've been searching for great modern day soul and coming up empty aside from Delbert McClinton and Peter Wolf. I can't afford it at the moment but will definitely buy it in the future and probably turn my dad on to it along the way. Thanks for the recommendation, Jon. |
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martha_promise
= Cult of Ray =
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2004 : 15:39:44
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Hey Jon,
Just got Uncomplicated off of I-tunes. I imagine that goes towards Soundscan? Anyways, the album sounds amazing and am looking forward to hearing more. Thanks for the updates on Honeycomb and the Ellis Hooks plug. It's well worth buying.
~~Come inside, or...Go Away.~~ |
Edited by - martha_promise on 10/07/2004 15:41:04 |
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PixieSteve
> Teenager of the Year <
Poland
4698 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2004 : 15:42:26
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| it really shits me, i know some people like to support their favourite artists, but why do you buy more than one copy of an album for yourself? what do you do with the rest? just keep em in a nice pile, or give them out? |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2004 : 18:52:37
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quote:
Originally posted by PixieSteve
it really shits me, i know some people like to support their favourite artists, but why do you buy more than one copy of an album for yourself? what do you do with the rest? just keep em in a nice pile, or give them out?
2 for me (home/car), 1 for brother, 1 for GF and a vinyl copy when available. that said i do this only for fb\pixies stuff.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
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Mac E. Doobage
= Cult of Ray =
503 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2004 : 19:46:18
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What a douche.
quote:
Originally posted by Zsolt G.
Jeezus...are we all getting bent out of shape or what.
1. Jon Tiven said that Frank paid for this album out of his pocket. That means if money is lost the only one losing it is Frank. No secretary or janitors will lose their jobs because this album didn't sell millions. The musicians were all session players who have already been paid.
2. Frank is cleaning up right now with this Pixies shit. He's ROLLING in it. If he needs even more money the Pixies can record themselves tuning their instruments and sell more records than FB solo ever would. Honeycomb is a vanity project. It was recorded to give the true fans a thrill and satisfy Frank's diverse musical ideas. Give some money to charity instead, OK? Besides, if there are going to be any buyers outside of the core group of maniacs, they won't exist unless this record is properly advertised and reviewed...which would only happen after a proper release.
3. Record companies have been ripping us off for decades now. I thought there was some big lawsuit about overpriced CDs? I'm sure the Lawyers made a ton of money, but the CDs at Borders are still 16.99 and up... CDs by artists that have been dead for decades. Elvis CDs are full price. Buddy Holly CDs are full price. The only people making money off these records are multinational conglomerates who also make everything from CD burners (which you can use to bootleg their own artists) to weapons systems. Then they paste an FBI warning on their packaging and put mandatory previews on their DVDs. Well they can eat poo as far as I'm concerned.
4. People have been bootlegging music since the 60s (not to mention buying used records, which is perfectly legal yet the artist makes no money) I remember my parents had some recordings of songs off the radio that they made with reel to reel machines. Why is radio "promotion" and the internet "theft"? The only reason the companies are making a stink about this now is because they aren't selling as many records. They are still making a shit load of money, but can't possibly sell as many CDs of thier shitty bands for 16.99 as they did back when you could by a Beatles LP for under $5.00.
All this being said I don't download much music and still buy CDs...so make of this what you will. Basically I support the right to steal music I guess. I intend to buy Honeycomb (and have not downloaded it, though I might want a copy now, since this is a collectable "rough mix")...so hopefully this leak will speed up the release of it.
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dogjones
- FB Fan -
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2004 : 20:03:52
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"If he needs even more money the Pixies can record themselves tuning their instruments and sell more records than FB solo ever would."
that's funny, though...
frank black gets an exception from point #3 on that list, though...for the most part
and as for point #1...hey, no one deserves not to make money because you already have in the past. thurston moore gets to do his weird little sound projects and do crap like travel to france for a session to record cuz he invests back into his work from the money made off other projects. selling a million isnt the point, but the few buys that happen are welcome. |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2004 : 01:36:35
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I usually have the albums on CD and vinyl. The only one I have twice on CD is Pistolero cause I bought one for my GF before we started living together.
Denis
"I do feel sorry for people who don't collect records and obsess about music. Why? Because collecting, consuming and obsessing over music and records is very interesting. That's why." - Johan Kugelberg
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Jontiven
= Cult of Ray =
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2004 : 04:50:59
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| bye |
Edited by - Jontiven on 10/19/2004 15:23:08 |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2004 : 04:58:39
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RRRRRRRRhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...
I just peed my pants
Denis
"I do feel sorry for people who don't collect records and obsess about music. Why? Because collecting, consuming and obsessing over music and records is very interesting. That's why." - Johan Kugelberg
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gary13th
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
632 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2004 : 05:28:11
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wow thats brilliant news !!! Dont worry, when a FB cd comes out, i buy it !
----------
They are about, dressed to deceive, architect David Vincent |
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Frog in the Sand
-+ Le premiere frog +-
France
2715 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2004 : 06:29:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Jontiven
Glad you're all digging Ellis. He's coming back to Nashville in a few weeks to sing some more backgrounds on the second part of HONEYCOMB. Which we finished recording the basic tracks to yesterday.
I'm sure Frank will let you know who the band is, what the song titles are, etc. soon enough. But let me leak a little. It's another dream band situation. Big shoulders to stand on. Members of
The Small Faces, The MGs, The Band, Free, Cheap Trick, The Funk Bros.
And some guys who played behind Van Morrison, Lucinda Williams, Al Green, Wynonna....
And the return of Lyle.
12 new songs. All originals.
31 songs in all + the return of Lyle W.???  
That's too much for me 
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Johnny Yen
= Cult of Ray =
USA
408 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2004 : 07:19:04
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That's really fuckin' cool.
Hey Jon, how many Ellis units were scanned this week? Or should I say, what was the difference between this week and last week? The disc is ding-dang-good. My mom likes it, too, and she's picky. |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2004 : 07:28:20
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Ah, so this is what I was hearing only vague rumours about! Excellent! Sounds really cool, actually. Chucker T & the MGs. Lyle strikes back. Love it. Honeycomb is awesome, but I also want rock & roll!
For those also with me on a country kick at the moment, however, Neko's new one is sounding pretty good.
"Join the Cult of Frank 2.0 / And you'll be enlightened (free for 1.x members)" |
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2004 : 07:41:19
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wow. speechless. amazing.
-brian
- "I joined the Cult of Frank / And they tried to cut off my nuts and make me put on a blue jumpsuit"
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two reelers
* Dog in the Sand *
Austria
1036 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2004 : 07:50:40
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okay, i guess i'm just a little stupid, but could someone clear this up for me:
1) honeycomb is a nashville double cd and is supposed to ship as late as march 2005  ?
2) then there is an additional cd with lyle ?
or what ?
thanks
Open the gate, it's a big Wiener dog ! |
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Adam
= Cult of Ray =
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2004 : 08:13:31
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I like to get the cd and Lp, if available, of the Pixies et. al. projects. Cd's can go anywhere and the Lp's are just fun to have. I've only got Pistolero on LP, twice actually. I ordered one copy and the cd when they came out and found the other copy in a record store, used, and could not let it go unpurchased. The others, I watch for on ebay and bid while the prices are realistic. Have not got SMYT or LP yet, because it's still $30 plus shipping. Do have all the Pixies LP's though and am planning on getting the Zevon tribute because I didn't purchase BT off of itunes. No computer. I have a burnt copy of FBF and HC, but don't worry I've already ordered FBF and HC, when I get the chance.
Free the Heel! |
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remig
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1734 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2004 : 08:26:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Jontiven
Glad you're all digging Ellis. He's coming back to Nashville in a few weeks to sing some more backgrounds on the second part of HONEYCOMB. Which we finished recording the basic tracks to yesterday.
I'm sure Frank will let you know who the band is, what the song titles are, etc. soon enough. But let me leak a little. It's another dream band situation. Big shoulders to stand on. Members of
The Small Faces, The MGs, The Band, Free, Cheap Trick, The Funk Bros.
And some guys who played behind Van Morrison, Lucinda Williams, Al Green, Wynonna....
And the return of Lyle.
12 new songs. All originals.
But it's just a rumor, right? This can't be fact, right? Another new Frank Black CD recorded and there's still HONEYCOMB in the can?
Guys, your man has a jones for recording. You must feed the habit by buying his CDs. The more you buy, the more he will be able to do these projects. And the more we do, the better they get. I-tunes counts. The more support he gets, the more recordings he can do. So you can do a little webthievery from time to time, but if you don't throw down, he will have to return to being one of those conventional artists who makes records at the record company's behest rather than when the spirit hits him.
Boy, it hit hard the past two days. But I will let fearless leader give the details and I'm sure he will.
I told you I wouldn't let you down! Thanks for the Ellis Hooks support and Ellis thanks you as well.
best wishes,
Sleepless Jon
AAiEOdjeodHduohedohdpdu!!!!!!!
   
Yes Yes Yes.
I'm going to go to bed now and I want to wake up the day it's out!
***********************************************
So you have no point of reference, Donny.
You're like a child that wanders INTO THE MIDDLE OF A MOVIE! |
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vilainde
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Niue
7443 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2004 : 08:28:23
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Are you some kind of groundhog or anything?
Denis
"I do feel sorry for people who don't collect records and obsess about music. Why? Because collecting, consuming and obsessing over music and records is very interesting. That's why." - Johan Kugelberg
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Bartholomew
= Cult of Ray =
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2004 : 08:42:29
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| Holy shit! The man's a maniac. Isn't he in the middle of a huge tour...Just seen him play three days ago. Oooh I'm lovin' it. |
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