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cvanepps
= Cult of Ray =
USA
442 Posts |
 Posted - 12/08/2002 : 07:20:54
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As my inaugural post, I always wanted to ask a bunch of FB fans this question (and forgive me if it's been asked already). Here it is...
Do you prefer the studio multitrack recordings or do you like the direction the boys are headed with the recent live to 2 track releases? I won't bore you with an explanation of what these things are because I assume if you know anything about FB and the C's, you know already. Personally, I prefer the studio multitrack sound. I like that polished, effects-laden sound over the live sound. Of course, that doesn't stop me from seeing them at Cat's Cradle in Carborro every time. Nor will it keep me from buying new releases, no matter what FB and the C's decide to do. Hell, they could do a book on tape for all I care...I'd buy it.
So which sound does it for you? Multitrack or Live to 2 track?
-= It's not easy to kidnap a fat man. =- |
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zanni67
= Bio Elf =
643 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 07:43:37
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It's live to 2-track for me. And welcome aboard!!
Zan
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 07:46:03
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Hi cvanepps!
I agree with Zan, I like the live to 2 track - it seems more personal, like they could be playing that RIGHT NOW in my apartment or something.
girlie so groovy I want you to know... |
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ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 08:31:27
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With the stellar sound they are achieving with live to 2-track, i see no reason to go back to multitrack. Though the albums he's done with multitrack are awesome, which is only like two i think.
I wonder how "Teenager of the Year" would sound if they did it live to 2-track, hmm...
Derek |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 09:47:18
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| It depends on my mood, like my roommate said, it's almost too different bands. However, I would like to see a return to the multi-track approach. If they sort of switched it up, made a multi-track album with synthesizers and all those nice lush effects but then followed it up with a 2-track record, I'd like that a lot. |
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The Champ
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
736 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 10:22:19
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| Multi track, its clearer. |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 11:32:58
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I like the live to 2-track concept better. Frank's explaination of it is all that needs to be said; it's brilliant. It's capturing a performance of a song, whereas multitrack is more of a facimile of that performance. Multitrack is fine in certain occassions, but I hate Teenager of the Year for all of its annoying synth. If they would do that album straight to 2 track, it would rock on so many levels.
www.thebennies.com |
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bazza
* Dog in the Sand *
Ireland
1439 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 12:48:25
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welcome to the team fella. prefer two track - sounds more raw - and as the catholics are a tight live outfit they pull it off.
cheers
when you've got nothing
you've got nothing to lose.
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 13:19:22
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I'll take multi-track studio sessions. We can download bootlegs to get the 'live' feel, i'd like to hear what FB&TC can do if they pour days into production.
And it'd be nice to hear Frank doubling and doing harmonies with himself. =) |
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CaptainMaximus
- FB Fan -
126 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 14:21:32
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| Definitely back to multi-track. I agree with the person who pointed out that there's always live bootlegs for those who hunger for a raw and unvarnished sound. Though The Catholics are a tight band, and have achieved a mastery of the 2-track approach, some songs still turn out plain muddy; look at the last half of Devil's Workshop, for instance. When it's done right, however, some of the 2-track recordings on Dog in the Sand are so well done they sound multi-tracked. Maybe a little more careful recording with the two-track, perhaps? Though I sure do miss the multi-dimensional and layered intricacies of ToTY. You can multi-track for close to nothing these days with laptops and programming, while maintaining an acoustic and human feel. All this hemming and hawing about multi-tracking taking the humanity out of music; if used properly, a studio should ENHANCE the quality of a band's performance, not disguise the fact they have no musical skill. |
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carsonwerner
= Cult of Ray =
USA
254 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 14:35:07
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| I couldn't imagine dog in the sand sounding anywhere as good if they multi-tracked it, but at the same time I don't think TOTY would sound that great recorded live. It really depends on the material. I also think the mobile studio doesn't sound all that great at the moment, maybe they will refine it some. |
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zanni67
= Bio Elf =
643 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 14:50:12
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Would you like to elaborate on that??
Zan
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mdisanto
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1140 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 15:27:22
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yah the live to two track isnt so much an issue like carsonwerner said. as DITS sounded excellent with live to two track yet the two new ones dont sound that amazing with the mobile studio. I remember when i first heard the mp3s of BLD i thought it was like a rough mix or something becuase it doesnt sound that amazing. now eventually the sound grows on you and its not even an issue anymore, but i still think sonically DITS is far supirior, if not the crowning achievement of his work to date. That being said id prefer the quality achieved with the mobile studio if it means we get to hear many more songs (As it costs frank less). Going 2 track sorta like forces their songs in a certain direction which is fine with me becuase i like it, but again like carsonwerner said, the recording method is more based on the material so its more of what kind of songs you like than which recording technique.
-miked |
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zanni67
= Bio Elf =
643 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 16:40:38
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Ok, I accept that. Interesting thoughts here...
Zan
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 18:09:52
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hmm..well, they could keep some of the 'magic' by recording live to *multitrack*, then got over it and go dub-crazy. =)
Sort of a middle-ground.. |
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Atheist4Catholics
= Cult of Ray =
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 18:10:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave Noisy
I'll take multi-track studio sessions. We can download bootlegs to get the 'live' feel, i'd like to hear what FB&TC can do if they pour days into production.
And it'd be nice to hear Frank doubling and doing harmonies with himself. =)
I think they should record live to multitrack.
That way you can get the live spontaneous feel, but then have the flexability to make the mixes sound better. I enjoy the immediacy of the Live to 2's, but miss the clarity of the multitrack records. The live to 2's tend to be way too compressed (especially Pistolero) and it detracts from the music for me. |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 23:15:59
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| Yeah, the good thing about multi-track is that you can really alter the records from one another. Look at Trompe Le Monde as opposed to Doolittle. Or Teenager of the Year as opposed to Cult of Ray. These albums sound TOTALLY different. Dog in the Sand sounds totally different from FB and the C's, but i think that's the most different they'll be able to get them sounding. It makes the upcoming album more unpredictable. Again though, i think the ideal crowd-pleasing thing to do would be to switch off. A multi-track album every 2 or 3 years, and Frank could bang off a live to tracker or two in the meantime. |
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johndietzel
= Cult of Ray =
Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
464 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 23:44:48
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I'm completely satisfied with the live to 2-track, but that's of course in the absence of knowing what might have been with it multi-tracked and heavily produced. One thing is, I hate slick. I hate how some of the drums and bass sound on Pixies' TLM and Bossa Nova. I despised the eponymous FB debut's cheesy orchestrations. I suppose it was like I enjoyed the record despite its crap production. With the Catholics' approach, I do think Frank's erring on the correct side of recording philosophies. I will always take the "sound" of a DitS over that of the first FB disc.
"I don't trust anything said by a news anchor who doesn't have a believable hairpiece."
Dennis Miller |
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Perk
- FB Fan -
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2002 : 00:24:11
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Not my first post but hi all anyway.
Multi vs 1/2 track
I'm an audio engineer, old school and many years old.
I know that recording the band live when multi-tracking is the way to
keep the rhythm section and the performatce in tack. Then you over
dub, redo parts and add a liitle spice.
But I also think that multi-track is only a tool to create with.
A toy for promo-sexuels to take a great song and turn it in to poo !
So if the band has the song rehearsed and the recording space's can
be isolated, 1/2 track is the only way to go.
one full track is a 1/4 inch of tape,1/2 track stereo is two 1/4 inch tracks = 1/2 inch tape
The more area on the tape you have to record on the greater the dynamic range. Do the math for 24tk 2 inch tape. yuck !
DITS sounds great and was recorded on 1/2 track.
BLD sounds like it was recorded on 1/4 inch tape ( and maybe a well used tape). If Devil was recorded on the same equipment it's just a
difference of gain, the room and maybe fresh tape. I think it sounds better than BLD but still sounds like a 1/4 inch machine.
The best thing about recording live to 2-track.
You have a better chance of recreating the performance live !
There's a company that makes a 8-track head stack for 2 inch machines.
Now thats some dynamic range!!!full 1/4 inch multi-track recording!!!!
Let's buy that for Frack ! Merv says he will match all donations : )
Don't sweat the petty things
and don't pet the sweaty things |
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Solidgld
- FB Fan -
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2002 : 00:35:54
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When it works keep it up! I like 2 track when you hear a song you know it was that take that made it on the CD. Its all rock action no extra, anything. You can't fake it, its really them on that performance. I never liked the first 2 solo records till I saw FB live then I got Black Sessions. Live FB & TC rock so tight that it sounds better then any CD even 2 track.
On the same track as someone else with a mobile studio you can record as much or little as you want. I'll take on CD each year thank you. Why waste a bunch of time editing, thats what its all about. 2 Track you like it or you don't its that simple.
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Broken Face
-= Forum Pistolero =-
USA
5155 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2002 : 07:22:15
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for now i love the live to two track feel, however i feel that it can box them into a corner eventually. i think frank's songs are great and i would love to hear them anyway i could - live, multitracked, whatever. certain songs like 1826, Hermaphoroditos, Bullet, All My Ghosts, I Think I'm Starting to Lose It, Back to Rome, DITS, etc. sound EXCELLENT live to two track. Other songs i sometimes wonder about what a multitracking could do for them, and sometimes i think multitracking would let them polish up (does not mean make it slick) certain things (like for instance the ending to 1826, b/c it's live they can leave the just kinda tail off ending with no real resolution or fade out, where as in a more controlled environment, they could work it out better). i like what some people here said by getting frank some better mobile equipment, recording live to two track but not being afraid to layer on top of that when necessary (which may not be often at all)
-Brian
RAWK! |
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frankblackphx
= Cult of Ray =
USA
287 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2002 : 10:09:34
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| That is such a tough question. I do think some post's have addressed this issue perfectly. I completely agree with the fact if they can get the production of DITS then live 2 track is perfect. I do think the production took a pretty big step backwards on BLD & DW. Even on the songs I have for SSMVGD I was really put off on the production (which is why it was probably never released). DITS is layered so perfectly and the seperation is incredible. I for one like a more polished sound for a final product and I think the production on the first two albums are great. With that being said though if Frank can release more material by recording live to 2 track then that is what I would prefer but I hope he can get back to the production he has already perfected on DITS. |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2002 : 10:40:46
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| For those of you who find BLD a bit lo-fi, I reccommend checking out Guided by Voices Bee Thousand or Vampire On Titus, they make the production on Black Letter Days seem like Sgt. Pepper's. |
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Chaariotrider
- FB Fan -
12 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2002 : 12:46:01
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I like the 2 trax better, use 2 work as a studio engineer(only do P.A and monitors now, wear earplugs!!),
but u probably have urself laid your hands on cubase,logic or protools and know just how easy it is to fix it.
The way FB@TC record,
is the way it'supposed the be done in my humble opinion.(but who am I too judge what is right from what is wrong )
FIRST U write the song and learn to play it, and when it is good enough(or you need the money )
u record it.
I have recorded my own songs and they sound great, but are infact crap cause I fixed it al up.
So I have decided 2 destroy those evil creations so
that I would preserve my pure and untouched soul .
Be carefull with drugs kids, but DON'T mess with those vintage tube amps, they can kill u!!!
Greetingzz, Vin
(smilies suck)
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cvanepps
= Cult of Ray =
USA
442 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2002 : 12:50:20
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Whoa daddy! I didn't expect such a sizable response but it's never a bad idea to think these things through. While I have a preference for the multitrack sound, I'll always prefer intelligent music with interesting chord changes (a specific requirement of mine) over the pop-dreck they play on the radio.
-= It's not easy to kidnap a fat man. =- |
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VoVat
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
9168 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2002 : 22:56:46
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quote:
Frank's explaination of it is all that needs to be said; it's brilliant. It's capturing a performance of a song, whereas multitrack is more of a facimile of that performance.
That might be true for Frank's music, but I wouldn't say it's the case for every artist. Sometimes it's pretty much the opposite, and live performances of a song are attempts to sound like the multitracked album versions.
As for which I prefer, it doesn't matter that much to me, but since the two-track has worked so well for Frank, I think he should definitely continue using it.
Nathan |
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frank_black_francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
895 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2002 : 11:33:18
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| 2-trak is fine with me, i like both....but i think any attempt to get back to a more basic sound is cool....i question whether the typical overproduced (facsimile), multi-trak sound you hear these days takes away from the essence, feel and spontanaity that is rock music. |
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