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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
 Posted - 11/27/2002 : 10:52:52
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Thanks to Eric K on the AP list:
http://www.splendidezine.com/features/frankblack/
By Jennifer Kelly
Frank Black is one of my musical heroes. I was, like pretty much everybody else at the time, a big fan of the Pixies. I've bought all the solo records. I am apt, at odd times, to hum bits of obscure Frank Black songs like "I Want to Live on an Abstract Plane" and "Fu Manchu". Going to a Frank Black concert a couple of years ago was one of the peak experiences of my life.
So naturally, I didn't want to interview him. I mean, what if something went wrong? What I came off as an idiot or a bitch? What if I screwed up the interview time? What if I woke him up out of a sound sleep at the ungodly (for rock stars) hour of 9:00 a.m.?
Actually, I did screw up the interview time, and I'm also pretty sure I woke him up. However, groggy or not, he was remarkably gracious and articulate. We talked about his two excellent new albums, the secret to touring longevity, the Pixies musical and Black's newfound appreciation for classical music...
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Splendid: I have the two new albums, Devil's Workshop and Black Letter Days, and they're really amazing. Why did you release two albums at the same time?
Frank Black: Well, I didn't make them at the same time. I made one in January and one in February, so...you know, it's just a matter of number of songs, that's all.
Splendid: Okay. In another interview, you said that you don't really write albums, you write songs. What does that mean in terms of deciding which songs go on which albums? Did you record all the songs for one album, then all the songs for the other?
Frank Black: Exactly. That's how I did it. People listen to songs more than they listen to albums. In other words, I think your brain focuses in on a song, a song that you know, a song that you don't know, a song that you like, a song that you don't like. It's much more natural to tune into the immediacy of what a song is. As opposed to an album.
Splendid: Yeah.
Frank Black: Which is a... I don't know, a high-falutin' concept.
Splendid: So if you have a bunch of good songs, does it not matter what order they're in or which album they go on?
Frank Black: Well, no, I wouldn't say it doesn't matter. It's just that it's not as important as whether the songs are good or bad.
Splendid: Okay. Tell me a little about your mobile recording studio.
Frank Black: Sure. There are 12 or 15 big road cases, you know, big racks filled with old analog recording equipment.
Splendid: And do you take that around with you wherever you go?
Frank Black: No. It's a big pile of stuff. We just move it from one recording space to another.
Splendid: And what that means is that any time you feel like recording an album or a song, you can just go ahead and do it, right?
Frank Black: Pretty much. We have to secure a location, which sometimes can take a little time.
Splendid: What do you get out of having your own equipment?
Frank Black: Well, it's really the convenience more than anything. It keeps costs down.
Splendid: Okay. Now, these days you own your albums, and you just license them out to someone else to release them, don't you?
Frank Black: Yeah, I think that's pretty common; there are guys who have been doing it for a while, who are on indie labels. A lot of us probably own our own masters. So I don't think owning masters is unique in that regard. Maybe some of the younger guys wouldn't have the opportunity to do it yet.
Splendid: It's so strange how the record business is structured, where you basically have to pay to make the record and then you still don't own it afterwards. It seems like a crazy way to run things, but I guess once you get to a certain level you can circumvent that?
Frank Black: Well, from the record companies' point of view, that's the heart and soul of any record company -- the masters that they own. And if you're young and broke...
Splendid: How long have you been able to own your own masters?
Frank Black: Starting around Cult of Ray.
AUDIO: Black Rider
Splendid: Let's talk about the two new albums. I'm not even sure if I can articulate the difference between the two, but they have a really different feel to them. What do you see as the differences?
Frank Black: Well, one of them is longer. That's the greatest difference, really. It's longer and has more songs on it and therefore has more so-called variety, just because of the number of songs, so it comes off as more eclectic. It has more opportunity to be eclectic. Devil's Workshop is only a half-hour long, whereas Black Letter Days is an hour long, so it has the impression of being easier to absorb. But I think it all comes down to the length.
Splendid: You think so? Because I was thinking that Black Letter Days had a rougher, less produced feel to it. Is that legitimate?
Frank Black: It's legitimate, sure, because that's your opinion. Other people have other opinions. No one is right. It's all very subjective. Everyone hears something, and they have an impression, and that impression becomes their opinion.
Splendid: Yeah, okay, but it has no basis in fact?
Frank Black: I don't think so. I mean, you could talk about it all day, but I don't think we would ever settle it.
Splendid: The other thing about Black Letter Days that I thought was interesting -- I was looking through all your solo albums and I couldn't find another cover on any of them. You normally don't do covers on your albums.
Frank Black: Generally not, no.
Splendid: Why did you do not just one but two versions of "Black Rider", and how did you connect with that song?
Frank Black: Well, it's in our repertoire. We play it a lot. That's the reason we did it. The two versions came from the fact that there was a lyrical omission in the first version, which was the preferred version. I was frustrated that the preferred take had this lyric missing, because of my mistake. Everyone liked this other, sillier version as well. We weren't in the mood to record it more, so we were basically stuck with the two takes, so what do we do? Somehow someone had the idea, let's just put them both on. It was like scratching everybody's itch.
Splendid: What kind of reaction have you gotten to that?
Frank Black: Some people love it. Some people hate it. You know...
Splendid: The other song that I really liked on that album was the title track, "Black Letter Days". It had some resonance with me because it seems like it's about accepting your limitations and doing what you have to do, sort of a song about maturity.
Frank Black: Ahhm. You know, yeah, it's about resignation. Acceptance of the rut that you're in. Your station in life.
Splendid: So, is that a bad thing? It doesn't seem like it's a bad thing. It seems like it's the kind of thing where you go on from there.
Frank Black: I don't know if it's a bad thing or not. You know what a red letter day is?
Splendid: Yeah, it's a holiday.
Frank Black: Well, you know, it's like all the other days, the black letter days, not the special days, but the unspecial days. The days that make up our lives are mostly black letter days. There are more of those than the red letter days. Perhaps they're days we would prefer to forget.
Splendid: Okay, I see. I'd like to talk about Devil's Workshop now, and some of the songs you did there. You did sort of a Pixies cover in "Velvety".
Frank Black: Yeah, it's an updated version of it.
Splendid: So what's it like to go back to songs you wrote a while ago, ten years ago, 15 years ago?
Frank Black: Completely natural. It all springs forth from the same source, yourself. Especially when you're dealing with stuff that's unfinished and you're going back and you're adding to it or something. Going back to review something that's already finished, that sometimes feels more awkward. But to take something from the past that you were unsatisfied with in some way, and augment it or add lyrics to it, as in this case, it doesn't seem awkward. It's yourself. It's seems as if no time had passed.
Splendid: Yeah. Interesting. Do you ever feel like you're competing against your younger self?
Frank Black: No, not really. I mean, I am, but at the same time, you know, all the benefits end up back to me, so it's not quite competing.
Splendid: What are you talking about in terms of the benefits? What do you mean?
Frank Black: Money.
Splendid: Okay, it's not like knowledge and life experience and stuff like that?
Frank Black: How do you mean?
Splendid: I mean, learning more about yourself and your art and that sort of thing. Do you feel like you play better and sing better and write better than you did before because of what you've learned?
Frank Black: I do, but that's just good for my own self-knowledge, my own confidence. It doesn't really mean diddly-squat to anyone else. All anyone else cares about is the bottom line.
Splendid: In terms of money.
Frank Black: Right. It's like well, yeah, we like what you're doing, but it's not as good as this thing over here, which sold ten times as many records. That's really what it all comes down to.
AUDIO: Velvety
Splendid: That's crazy though, because there are so many great albums that don't sell. And later people recognize that...
Frank Black: I guess I'm talking more about critics or editors or whatever than I'm talking about Joe Blow on the street. It's more reviews, that kind of thing.
Splendid: The themes on Devil's Workshop are very dark. You have "The Kingly Cave", which is about mortality, and "Bartholomew" is about insanity, and "Whiskey in Your Shoes" is about losing a child. Is life getting more serious?
Frank Black: It could be. I don't know. I think I'm probably more comfortable now singing songs that are not abstract or so surreal. That I think I'm a lot more comfortable writing songs that have a meaning or a narrative. Thank you, by the way, for actually identifying what all those songs were about, more or less. Most people don't go that deep. Not that you sat around for hours and hours...
Splendid: (laughing) It's not really that deep.
Frank Black: Some people give the most cursory listen.
Splendid: I like lyrics -- and I like the fact that you included a lyric sheet on both albums.
Frank Black: Yeah, I was going to leave them out, but my wife said that a lot of the fans like it, so I'd better leave it in there.
Splendid: I just hate to feel like I'm missing anything, and there are so many songs where I felt like I knew what they were about, and finally, I realized what the lyrics were and it was something completely different.
Frank Black: Right. I think that's -- you don't listen to the lyric first. I don't listen to the lyric first either, when I listen.
Splendid: I also thought it was interesting that you have these very dark themes, but musically, the songs are not sad or dark.
Frank Black: Yeah. I suppose you're right. You're probably the second person who has mentioned that. I hadn't really thought about it until it was mentioned to me. I don't know. I have no answer for you, except that that's the way it came out. I write music and then later I write lyrics to it. I suppose that's part of the reason you frequently end up with juxtapositions.
Splendid: And the other thing -- you must have written some of these songs in the fall of 2001, which was sort of a dark time for a lot of people.
Frank Black: Yeah. I don't know that it was related to current events or anything like that. I try to be as far removed as I can from current events when I write songs, because I don't want them to have that kind of baggage. I'd prefer my songs to be free to move around in time and space rather than to be rooted in a particular time period or anything that other people can identify.
Splendid: But you do some historical songs.
Frank Black: Right. Sure. With the exception of historical songs. (laughs)
Splendid: I wanted to ask you about "Heloise", which is one of my favorite songs? Is that Heloise and Abelard?
Frank Black: Uh-huh.
Splendid: Do people get that?
Frank Black: People who know the story of Abelard and Heloise do. But it doesn't really matter. I didn't know about Heloise and Abelard, you know, until I sat down to write the song, and I had to figure out who this person Heloise was. I had to stumble around and stumbled on this Heloise and Abelard, and was kind of like, oh, it's obvious. You're looking for your story. There it is.
Splendid: Right, but the music was already there when you discovered it?
Frank Black: Yeah, for a long time.
Splendid: That's interesting, because the part where you're singing the name, Heloise -- it's like it couldn't be anything else. It feels like it couldn't be another name.
Frank Black: Right, well, thank you. The song actually had other lyrics, probably once or twice before, over the last four or five years. So that's one of those songs that you just kind of -- you fortunately have enough -- what's the word I'm looking for? The smarts to edit yourself. You say, okay, this is not done. This stinks. And you just kind of withdraw it from the selection, and every couple of years you dig it up and try writing new words to it.
Splendid: That's interesting. That's one of the parts of the songwriting process that's sort of mysterious to me -- how you know when something's right and how you keep working on it when it's not.
Frank Black: It's just experience. It comes from the sting of not having that kind of perspective before in the past and having to live with the results. Ending up with songs on records where you're just like, oh, man, why did I ever release that song? It definitely does not work. It isn't good enough. It's kind of embarrassing. Once you've experienced that a couple of times, you start to question yourself a little more than you used to.
Splendid: Any examples?
Frank Black: I'd rather not say, specifically.
Splendid: Okay. So I was at the movies last week, and they were running a trailer of the Band's The Last Waltz, and they had Robbie Robertson up on the screen saying, "This is an unsustainable lifestyle." And I wonder since you've been touring and writing and recording for probably half your life at this point, how do you make it sustainable?
Frank Black: You know, you just can't get caught up in all the foolishness. You can't get caught up in getting drunk all the time. Or taking drugs. You know what I mean?
Splendid: But I would think that even without that, just being on the road as much as you must be, it must be very disruptive to everything else?
Frank Black: Yeah, it can be. You definitely hit a few dark patches in your life. But what are you going to do? It's what you are after a while. There are people that do it for a few years, and there are other people that are lifers that always do it because they feel compelled.
Splendid: And would you put yourself in the second category?
Frank Black: You know, I might have enough notches in rifle to be in that category, I suppose. I don't know at what point someone becomes a lifer. It's kind of an individual thing. I sort of feel that all the people that I play with are lifers.
Splendid: You have basically the same band as on Dog in the Sand?
Frank Black: Yeah.
Splendid: I saw a show on the Dog in the Sand tour, and I remember that you had all different ages in the audience -- you had young kids, and you had people my age who had probably known the Pixies and pretty much everything in between. Let's talk about your audience and what it's like playing live, and what you get out of it.
Frank Black: Well, it's always edifying to see different kinds of people at your shows. I think I'm always happy to see patrons there that have paid the money, and they're there in the room, even if they're just there to drink or something or meet people. That's okay, I suppose.
Splendid: No one goes to a Frank Black concert to drink, do they?
Frank Black: Sure they do. Absolutely. And it's always nice to see someone who is really, really there, because they're obsessed with rock music. Certainly people that are over a certain age, say people 35 and older. When you see people that are in that category, they might be 35 and they might be 55; you kind of just go, oh, those people are definitely on the same page. They're not there because they need to socialize. They're not there because they need to spend a little bit of pocket money. I don't know. They're kind of more serious about it. And that's kind of cool.
Splendid: I also wanted to ask you about this musical. The Pixies musical?
Frank Black: Yeah.
Splendid: What's going on with that? It just seems like kind of an odd idea.
Frank Black: I don't really know. I've had several interviews with the guy and I know he's writing this thing, and I have no idea. I don't know if it's going to be good or bad or whatever. (He laughs.) I'm not really involved in it, other than, I'm not its subject matter, but perhaps I'm within the subject matter. One of the dominant, I don't know, figures.
Splendid: So do you have any veto power? What if it's really awful?
Frank Black: Well, you know, sometimes you just take those chances. It's publicity. The guy hasn't even done performance one and he's had an interview piece done in Entertainment Weekly.
Splendid: Yeah, but it seems like he's getting more out of his association with you than you're getting out of your association with him.
Frank Black: Right. But he may go on and do something that's really successful. I have no way of knowing. Am I taking a chance? Sure. It's not like I'm involved in it. If anything, the implication is, well, I'm just such a creative famous guy that -- you know what I mean -- to be celebrated on some Off Broadway musical.
Splendid: Yeah, you and Hedwig.
Frank Black: Right. But it's not a collaboration. Although I think he is seeking certain permissions to have a few of my songs in there. When you don't get played on the radio and you live in a very corporate world, a world that is very limited, you start to not be as picky on opportunities to have your music heard or to have your name in print. So, you know, if some beer company calls and says, hey, we want to use your song in a beer ad, when I was younger, I might have had some kind of high and mighty idea that that isn't cool and that's bad, but when you get older, you're just like screw this, whatever you're selling, I don't give a shit. The same people that own the radio stations own the liquor companies. It's all connected.
AUDIO: Heloise
Splendid: I have such mixed feelings about those commercials with really good songs on them, because on the one hand, you know, it's the only chance you get to hear some of these really good songs, but on the other hand, sometimes they just put them in a context where you can't listen to them anymore.
Frank Black: Right. I'm against advertising. I don't like billboards. I don't like to watch television commercials. If I hear advertising on the radio, when I'm listening to radio, I change the station. Having said that, I do compromise because every once in a while, someone offers me a big wad of money to use some of my music. At the end of the day, that money represents your creative freedom. Your ability to do things the way you want to. To live the lifestyle that you're accustomed to. And you do it. You just go, all right. If I were to be asked to use my music in something I was really offended by, I suppose that's where I would draw the line. But what can I say? Advertising is all around us. It's everywhere.
Splendid: What are you listening to these days?
Frank Black: Classical music.
Splendid: Really? Which?
Frank Black: Lately I've been listening to this Rimsky-Korsakov. This one's called Scheherezade. I'm just starting to get in the habit of writing these things down. Last night, I didn't know what it was, it turned out to be Beethoven's 9th Symphony. And I'm like, what is this thing that I'm hearing as I walk out of my hotel room. So one of the guys from the band that's a little better with his musical history, I ask, what's the one that goes like this. He says, oh, yeah, Beethoven's 9th. So I'm starting to grow in that regard.
Splendid: There's this great book called The Rough Guide to Classical Music; you can look things up and they tell you which recordings to get of various works. You know, I'm sort of starting from a very low level, too, but it's very interesting.
Frank Black: Oh, The Rough Guide. I'll have to try to get that. I haven't been able to focus in on classical music my whole life. I never minded it when I heard it. But it's the first time I'm able to relax enough to absorb it. It's the same thing with a lot of jazz records. I never minded it. I could always listen to it passively. But it's only in recent years that I've been able to listen to it with the same kind of intensity that I listen to rock music.
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bazza
* Dog in the Sand *
Ireland
1439 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2002 : 11:51:04
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thats really excellent dave.
thanks for the effort.
cartoons kick ass.
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Chip Away Boy
= Cult of Ray =
914 Posts |
Posted - 11/27/2002 : 18:48:57
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| i love frank black interviews |
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Ten Percenter
- FB Enquirer -
United Kingdom
1733 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2002 : 02:12:04
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| Very interesting read - really liked the part about Heloise |
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Omer
= Cult of Ray =
275 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2002 : 10:26:21
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| Not the best interviewER, but a pretty good interview nonetheless. Obviously Frank saw that the guy gave a damn, and said some real stuff. |
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joe cam
- FB Fan -
Canada
3 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2002 : 11:51:01
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Hello out there:
Me am new hear-- Me am a big Frank fan, almost equally so a Pixies fan but love Fank even more; Teenager of the (Y)Ear saved my life, no doubt about it; saw a Horseshoe Tavern (Toronto) show in April '00 and recently the Ottawa Barrymore's show on November 4th, and was thoroughly knocked out by both... really loved the splendid interview (nice name, like "police", it writes itself)... anyhow, did you notice his reference to Beethoven's Ninth? It is intriguing that the current film "Bowling for Columbine" by Michael Moore uses it as a theme for various interesting statistics, and given Moore's facility with cinematic ref-riffing, he is surely aping good old Stanley Kubrick's use of "The Ode to Joy" in "A Clockwork Orange"... not that Charles a.k.a. Frank would be quite so hyperkinetically mindlinked, eh? (I'm Canadian. Sorry.) |
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Wade
- FB Fan -
115 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2003 : 17:29:30
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I thought that she did a pretty good job, the questions were poignant (sp?) and I thought his responses were very open, which is the hard part to get out of an interview. Great job, thanks for posting....
Gotta wonder what it looked like pre-edit though. |
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