| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
St. Francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
548 Posts |
 Posted - 11/23/2002 : 12:10:18
|
Saw this film last night and it was absolutely briliant. Has anyone else seen this film? Think the issues and factors were quite valid especially the role of the media in creating general fear in the US which is often not valid...discuss.
Lord-a-mercy! |
Edited by - St. Francis on 11/23/2002 12:22:16 |
|
|
floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2002 : 17:19:30
|
thought not flawless, i also thought BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE was a brilliant, thought-provoking film.. it certainly raises some interesting questions.. had me thinking long after (and still does).. definite recommended viewing.
i thought approaching Dick Clark was kind of pointless .. yeah, he's an asshole for underpaying his employees, but should he really be made to answer for the completely random, tragic accident that happened with the 6 year old? that could have happened no matter where the mother was working..
i felt that segment was going a bit out of its way to take a pot shot at GM (which one of his other films attacks), but inappropriately.. it was kind of stretching it a bit..
just one complaint in an overall extremely well made, vital documentary?
Dave, maybe you can tell us: why are Canadians so much less violent? you guys have twice as many guns, and even a higher unemployment rate than us, yet only... something like 150 gun related deaths a year.. (as opposed to our 11,000).. Japan was like 38.. Australia was under 100.. crazy shit.
Floop |
 |
|
|
Brackish
- FB Fan -
142 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2002 : 20:19:20
|
| Saw Bowling a couple of weeks ago. Great film. Two things I remember. First, I thought it was interesting that Marilyn Mansion (I am not a fan at all) had some of the most insightful, intelligent comments in entire the film. It was kinda surreal to see him sitting there in full make-up and goth-metal garb, with the more-than-ample belly of Michael Moore staring back at him. Truly an Odd Couple. Second, I think the question of why Americans have more gun violence than Canada, England, Australia, etc. WAS answered in the movie: it's racism! America hasn't got past slavery: the guilt, the anger, the fear, and most importantly, the underlying feeling that the guilt/anger/fear is basically justified by the extremity of american history's shameful past. We have a lot to be ashamed of and we don't know what to do with the guilt. The South Park like cartoon (hilarious) of American history started me thinking this, and then Charleton Heston's comments during the interview (why in the hell did he agree to be interviewed by Michael Moore?) comfirmed it for me. And, yeah, the Dick Clark thing was a little pointless. My big complaint about the film is that it didn't really offer any solution, it just pointed out how fucked up things are. We knew that! |
|
|
|
Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2002 : 20:43:10
|
St. F - Thanks for bringing this up. =)
Floop - This isn't an easy subject to answer.
First, i think it's important to note (and deceptful of MM) that Canada has 1/10th the pop. of the US, so that number can really be factored up to 1,500 deaths, on a per-capita basis. Still way-shy of the US numbers.
Brackish has a point, racism is less common here, and even less frequently tolerated. (Not perfect either of course, we do have our problems.)
I think it all goes back to the fear thing..there *is* less fear here. I lived in the US for 6mos last year (in Norfolk, VA), and that was something that seemed more common. People really did lock their doors way more, and people were a lot less likely to trust someone they didn't already know. I was to be suspicious of my neighbors, which was never something i rarely felt here. (Although it *is* more common in bigger cities.)
One of my favorite stats from the movie is something like crime or homocides are down 20%, but reporting of these events are up 600%. Less is actually happening, but you hear about it a LOT more.
I'm not sure if guns are the problem. (Tho it don't make sense to me why handguns were ever made available, the **only** purpose of a handgun is to kill another human. I don't see much point in rifles as well.)
I'm more inclined to think that people are the problem. People who accept senseless reasons to dislike or hate other people (like racism, sexism, homophobia, being a member of a different 'gang'). People who feel belittled by their peers. People who are afraid. Lot's of other people too.
I don't want to see these people punished however. There is a reason why these people are acting this way - a need of theirs' isn't being met. If more effort were made to meet the needs of people, instead of punishing them, we might see more content people who are less likely to be upset or afraid. (Note the 'jail' industry in the US is huge, and booming.)
I dunno, i'm kinda rambling and not too focused on the subject..pretty big.
What do you think? |
|
|
|
floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2002 : 00:09:59
|
brackish, yeah, i think the racism thing is a factor, but i don't think that answers the question completely. there is just as much racism in plenty of other countries (Austraila for one)..
i agree with you about Heston though.. i almost felt sorry for the old feller. he really needs to get someone else to be his spokesperson in these situations. but i guess he's too much of a good old boy "i can handle this Michael Moore by my damn self!"..
i agree with both of you about the fear thing though.. which i guess ties in with the racism element (as portrayed in american news coverage).. oddly enough, Marolyn Manson's comments WERE some of the most intelligent in the film. it's something about the whole viscious cycle of fear.. egged on by the US News media..
factoring all this in, it's still staggering how much more gun violence we have here compared to other places.. proportionatly. even with all other stats factored in (gun ownership, poverty, racial diversity etc..).
|
|
|
|
St. Francis
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
548 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2002 : 12:14:06
|
Obviously the availability of weapons is a large issue in the general equation. In the movie it is mentioned that Canada has a lot of guns per capita and this is true. It is important to note, however, these are not available as easily...no flea market guns or mail order (to my knowledge) and hand guns are tightly restricted and regulated. So when a heated situation occurs there is less chance of reaching for a weapon because they are simply not as accessable.
Another issue which I believe contributes to a difference is Canada's focus on the collective good. In general there are a lot of social programs here which enable people to better themselves through participation. This allows Canada to enjoy a lover crime rate and cuts down on petty crime which probably ends up with a lot shootings in the US (e.g. Breaking and Entering). I also think several US policies create perpetual poverty and while our system is not perfect (actually erroding due to the rise of right wing politics...How about those "liberals" Dave...thats completely another topic) but things like standardized state education and post secondary education are more accessable as well. Think this creates hope and sways people away from violence.
Finally, I think unemployment is not really that much of a factor in keeping murder rates low. I lived in the United Kingdom for a while and their unemplyment rate is like 11% and they have less murders than Canada which is half the size as far as population goes. France also has a high unemployment rate as well but not the same problems. I think it is a case of what you do with the unemployed and how you make them feel. France and the UK have excellent social systems as well...maybe stressed people who work too much contribute to the higher murder rate...
Anyhow, those are some things from a Canadian point of view. I am sure there is much more I could mention but I have spewed enough for the time being...there is so much else but I'll see where the conversation goes.
Oh, just a point of interest: The "Ghetto" Moore showed in the movie was actually CO-OP housing (I would actually would love to live there)in downtown Toronto...it is not at all a Ghetto. In the film he neglected to show areas which could be described as true "Ghettos" which do have a lot of crime...well by our standards.
Lord-a-mercy! |
|
|
|
vegeta1567
- FB Fan -
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2002 : 22:01:36
|
crap! I have got to see this movie. Though i haven't i can still comment on the replys. I also belive in gun control. Stupid handguns are the worse. People please! Just buy some mace or a tazer. they work just as well and are far less likly to end up killing your childern. I don't fear rifles as much though, despite that whole mess aroung D.C. Its just harder to carry a 1.5 meter barrel conspicously and then mug somebody. Still its all subjective. I don't know. I could be wrong. I just hope not. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
