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jimmy
= Cult of Ray =
USA
876 Posts |
 Posted - 01/02/2004 : 22:45:46
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I'm not trying to get anyone mad but I just can't see why everyone LOVES the movie "Clerks". I've seen it twice and it barely holds my attention. All of those Kevin Smith movies bore me. I thought "Mallrats" would be fun, but no. "Dogma" should've had a laugh track.
I think a movie like "Pulp Fiction" is appealing (aside from being a well-made movie) because you can tell it's really one guy's idea, as opposed to being a collaboration. It's distinctive in that way. Kevin Smith movies are like that too, except that they're so unimpressive.
I can't see why he would've wanted to make any of those movies, never mind why people like them so much. |
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TarTar
* Dog in the Sand *
1965 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2004 : 00:56:50
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I used to think Smith's movies were on the same level as Tarantino's when I was about 20 years old. I thought that Smith was incredibly intelligent, wrote very engaging dialogue, and told awesome stories about inept geeks/losers who had great insight into life. Now, I realize how contrived and dull his work is. That over-intellectualizing crap has gotten really old, and in Smith's case, he doesn't even do it very well. A movie like Clerks has a billion holes in the plot line, like why are Dante and Randall such close friends and know so much about each other, but are telling each other stuff that they would have no doubt informed each other of a long time ago. And that Katlyn (spelling?) having sex with the dead guy thing is just so stupid and set up. They're all pretty bad films, but especially Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, which was what made me start losing respect for Smith when I first saw it. I could write a funnier and more interesting film in my sleep. Hell, I do often. I realize now his movies are just college humor and pop culture bullshit, without much insight into anything. His dialogue is totally hackneyed and pun-based. It sounds like every character sit up at night thinking of clever things to say and hope they get a chance to use them. Smith should focus more time on the story than trying to be interesting. He has potential, but usually gives in to cheap humor and gets to caught up in his influences and making references.
Alcohol or pot? VHS or Beta? Man or Astro-man? |
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The Holiday Son
= Quote Accumulator =
France
2010 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2004 : 07:43:05
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I still find Mallrats funny and Clerks quite funny.
But from Chasing Amy, Smith's films only have a couple of good ideas and/or jokes, which is really not enough to make a good film. |
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The Holiday Son
= Quote Accumulator =
France
2010 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2004 : 07:43:05
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I still find Mallrats funny and Clerks quite funny.
But from Chasing Amy, Smith's films only have a couple of good ideas and/or jokes, which is really not enough to make a good film. |
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cvanepps
= Cult of Ray =
USA
442 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2004 : 08:17:07
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I've grown a similar distaste for Kevin Smith as Jimmy and Tartar, starting with Dogma, which I did not like very much at all. Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back wasn't great either but it was somewhat fun. However, Clerks, for all it's goofyness and meandering ways, was a fresh take on post high school angst and complacency. It may not have said anything too profound about angst or complacency, but it was fresh.
But overall, Kevin Smith's films do not stand the test of time very well. Only Chasing Amy had something to say about anything meaningful, imo. Also, why do his films look so ugly? Chasing Amy, Dogma, and Strike Back all look so flat and boring. They must pick their DP (Director of Photography) by choosing from names in a hat or something.
Floop, you want to chime in here?
-= It's not easy to kidnap a fat man =-
http://christophervanepps.iuma.com |
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2004 : 08:38:20
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Kevin Smith is definetly representing testosterone of guys in their late teens and early twenties. Maybe it is more interesting when you are at that point, but hopefully everyone grows up. Of course, I am a girl so I may just not get it.
Eh, whatever.
I did like the idea in Chasing Amy that you can fall in love with a person and the sex of that person doesn't matter. That was sort of enlightened of Mr. Smith given all the machismo of his movies. |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2004 : 10:29:59
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I really liked Clerks an Mallrats five years ago but, like many of you, I have come to hate Kevin Smith. I still really enjoy those movies but only because the love is already in place; if those movies were to come out now I would definately hate them. Chasing Amy was pretty good but I thought it was pretty bold to say "See? Being gay is only a decision and one that you can change at any time."
Dogma sucks ass. It had so much potential but didn't use any of it and toward the end Smith tired of even trying to be funny and instead just let it become a drama film.
I agree with you cvanepps that his movies, especially of late, are really shitty looking. Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back looked like it was filmed with an amateur handheld camera.
 "I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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bumblebeeboy2
> Teenager of the Year <
United Kingdom
2638 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2004 : 10:39:53
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i like mallrats, and chasing amy is quite cool, mainly for Jason Lee's parts though, think he's great! Never got into Clerks (although I own it) and Dogmas is quite good at times... In fact I own them all apart from Jay and Silent Bob Stike Back, or whatever it's called, I really don't like those 2 characters, so a film actually evolving around them wasn't my cup of tea, it was okay, nothing special though...
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I'm flat out, you're so beautiful to look at when you cry. Freeze, don't move, you've been chosen as an extra in the movie adaptation of the sequal to your life. Shady Lane, everybody wants one, Shady Lane, everybody needs one. |
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Malax
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1340 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2004 : 17:41:52
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Sometimes its better not to be pulled into shit like names and whatnot. I admit im 20, and I saw Dogma some time before I got into watching movies as a hobbie say. When I saw it I had no idea who kevin Smith was or that he was some sort of cult icon. I enjoyed it thought it was a decent all round movie with a solid and slightly obscure plotline that was wholly well acted, if not a bit to much Damon/Affleck banter. Then when I found out he was this crazy icon guy I watched Mallrats expecting more of the same. But no, the plot was ridiculously flimsy, comic book humour and jokes that are the kind of jokes you only find funny when your in a cinema full of people. Clerks was more what I had expected, slightly more of a point to the story. As a debut with little money I guess its pretty decent. Jay and Silent Bob. Will Ferrell saves that from the brink of being...well and awful awful movie I guesss.
I suppose all of this could be contrived as I've never seen the movies since. In turn proving everyones theory right. |
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Little Black Francis
> Teenager of the Year <
3648 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2004 : 18:19:25
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I am 27 and still love all of Kevin Smith's movies. I just love his sense of humor.
And I anxiously await his newest movie "Jersey Girl"
supposed to be out very soon...
http://www.viewaskew.com/
is also an awesome website... even if you don't like him or their studio, as far as web design, great site...
anyway, I'm not here to argue with you or make you like these movies, but they make me laugh.
And Jason Lee I really like |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2004 : 23:00:07
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Kevin Smith seems to be everyone's first "auteur", as in the first director kids who get into film actively seek out. However, he's not much of a director at all, he's a writer. I don't like his films that much, though I liked the latent gay character in Chasing Amy, that was poignant, other than that it's all cleverer than thou' stuff. He's like Kevin Williamson who wrote Scream and Dawson's Creek, he makes the dialogue so obviously written it's painful. He'd be better off writing a sitcom or a comic book (I don't necessarily mean this as an insult), because he definitely has an ear for..something. Seems like a nice guy too.
One thing Kevin Smith said that is inexcusable though is that he didn't feel the need to explore the influential filmmakers because he claims guys like Jim Jarmusch did all that for him. Bleh. That said, if you've outgrown Kevin Smith and don't know Jim Jarmusch, check him out, especially the 80's films. The pop culture references and camera minimalism work much better, and Jarmusch is a schooled guy, he knows his stuff. |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2004 : 00:23:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Itchload
Kevin Smith seems to be everyone's first "auteur", as in the first director kids who get into film actively seek out. However, he's not much of a director at all, he's a writer. I don't like his films that much, though I liked the latent gay character in Chasing Amy, that was poignant, other than that it's all cleverer than thou' stuff. He's like Kevin Williamson who wrote Scream and Dawson's Creek, he makes the dialogue so obviously written it's painful. He'd be better off writing a sitcom or a comic book (I don't necessarily mean this as an insult), because he definitely has an ear for..something. Seems like a nice guy too.
One thing Kevin Smith said that is inexcusable though is that he didn't feel the need to explore the influential filmmakers because he claims guys like Jim Jarmusch did all that for him. Bleh. That said, if you've outgrown Kevin Smith and don't know Jim Jarmusch, check him out, especially the 80's films. The pop culture references and camera minimalism work much better, and Jarmusch is a schooled guy, he knows his stuff.
you do know Kevin Smith is actually a comic book writer too, right?
I think that it is incredibly stupid, regardless of your field, to not know what your predecessors did, like you mentioned when you said Kevin Smith didn't feel the need to explore the influential filmmakers. That's just arrogant in my opinion. You shouldn't feel constrained by what they do or don't do, but you should definitely have at least a passing knowledge of those who came before you -- after all, there are no new ideas under the sun.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
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jimmy
= Cult of Ray =
USA
876 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2004 : 16:41:14
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I just got home from the cape and I'm really happy to see the outpouring against Smith. I still don't see his appeal but but I do see more clearly why I don't like his movies or him. TarTar was on to something, saying, "I could write a funnier and more interesting movie in my sleep".
Smith is really MAKING his movies-writing, directing...he's got all this control over the whole project-and these are the movies he's making. What is the point? Why does he even make these movies. They're not art, and they're not great entertainment either. |
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benji
> Teenager of the Year <
New Zealand
3426 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2004 : 03:47:03
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i really like chasing amy - i think the first half of that his absolutely hilarious - though after that it slides downhill pretty fast.
but ben affleck is such an incredibly bad actor in that movie - well every movie really, but thats some of the worst acting by a lead man ever!
but i thought the story was pretty funny.
i also thought mallrats was clever, but couldn't get into clerks whatsoever.
i was dissappointed by dogma, but thought jay & silent bob's adventure was pretty funny, though certainly nothing new.
I love Jason Lee in all these movies.....he's fucking hilarious.... |
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andyn
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
169 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2004 : 03:55:11
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| I liked "Clerks" and still do but there again I never bothered to watch another of Smith's films, which seems to have been a good decision looking at the posts here. |
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STITCHES
= Cult of Ray =
USA
915 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2004 : 07:54:54
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personally I love Kevin Smith....sure his dialogue isn't very naturalistic, but neither is the dialogue of any classic movie from the 50's or even most from the 60's.
The references in one movie to characters and events in other movies is fraking brilliant, as are the characters' diatribes about jsut about every topic under the sun.
It takes an appreciation for dick and fart jokes (see Chasing Amy) to really like his sense of humor, so he's not for everyone.
But hey, lots of people I know actually liked the Virgin Suicides, and I thought that was utter shit.
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MAMASAYMAMASAMAMACOOSA |
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Malax
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1340 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2004 : 20:17:16
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| I like Virgin Suicides. James Woods and Kathleen Turner are outstanding... In that film |
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jimmy
= Cult of Ray =
USA
876 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2004 : 22:03:59
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In spite of all the things that it's missing, The Virgin Suicides is a good movie- not a great story or even well-defined characters but what it does-setting a particular mood- it does very well, more than any movie I can think of right now.
But Kathlene Turner and James Woods. They were good in the movie, yes, but it was a waste- those are such awful characters they were playing, worse than villans-it was a waste to have them in the movie.
Malax, you seemed to be saying they were good in that movie, but aren't in other movies. Maybe I misunderstood. But KT was good in a lot of movies, especially Serial Mom; JW too- The Specialist w/ Sharon Stone. |
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Malax
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1340 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2004 : 17:59:15
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| I tend not to look at films so deeply it can ruin them to an extent, so I'll agree with your first part, Im sure your right. As for James Woods and KT I was just saying they are good in that movie not that they are usually outstanding actors. Neither am I saying they are bad or haven't delivered excellent performances before. |
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cvanepps
= Cult of Ray =
USA
442 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2004 : 19:14:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Malax
I tend not to look at films so deeply it can ruin them to an extent...
Utter rubbish. Looking at these sort of films deeply is the best way to learn what they're all about and what they have to say about the human condition, if anything. If all you want is mindless entertainment, there's plenty of sporting events for that.
-= It's not easy to kidnap a fat man =-
http://christophervanepps.iuma.com |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2004 : 20:06:01
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I can never get enough of the scene where the girl with the kid walks in looking for 'Happy Scrappy Hero Pups'.
"I need one each of the following tapes. Whispers in the Wind, To Each His Own, Put It Where It Doesn't Belong, My Pipes Need Cleaning..." |
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jimmy
= Cult of Ray =
USA
876 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2004 : 20:45:00
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| Cvanepps, I can see what Malax means- I think he's just saying movies shouldn't be over-analyzed because it can take a lot of the enjoyment out of it. And sporting events aren't mindless entertainment- they're mindless. |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2004 : 20:54:12
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kevin smith is a moron, and writes like a stoned twelve year old.
dogma is a pretty terrible movie.
but clerks and mallrats have some pretty funny stuff. jay & silent bob is pretty lame but does have some funny moments.
chasing amy stumbles and trips and knocks over a really good movie's drink in a hip downtown bar, but isn't quite one itself.
these kinds of discussions are pretty dumb. i realize that most people do need someone like me to explain why things are good or bad (though i don't usually bother, and i didn't here) to them, but really you should figure it out on your own or you never will. |
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STITCHES
= Cult of Ray =
USA
915 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2004 : 06:44:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Ebb Vicious
these kinds of discussions are pretty dumb. i realize that most people do need someone like me to explain why things are good or bad (though i don't usually bother, and i didn't here) to them, but really you should figure it out on your own or you never will.
Actually, nobody needs you to explain why things are good or bad....because your opinion is no more true or intelligent than anyone else's
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MAMASAYMAMASAMAMACOOSA |
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Malax
* Dog in the Sand *
United Kingdom
1340 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2004 : 06:25:43
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| cvanepps if I sit watching a film for the first time and analyze it im going to find things wrong with it. If you have to look at a film deeply all the time then your a sad man. You forget the purpose of films are as a general rule, to entertain. Im not saying I watch all films at face value obviously some movies just smack of bad dialogue, poor acting, whatever. For example my girlfriend put on Bandits the other night (Bruce Willis) claiming it was good. I watched it for about 10mins before turning it off, the characters were so fake so unbelievable that it was unwatchable. Somewhat like that pish of a movie 15 minutes. |
Edited by - Malax on 01/08/2004 06:28:21 |
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STITCHES
= Cult of Ray =
USA
915 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2004 : 06:30:27
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for the most part, I'd agree with Malax on this one. Some movies are either so good or so bad that you can't help but analyze certain things, but for the most part, I just try to enjoy the movie the first time. If it's good enough (or bad enough) for me to want to watch it again, then I usually start looking deeper
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ALL I NEED IS THE AIR THAT I BREATHE,
AND TO LOVE YOU |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2004 : 09:54:28
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quote:
Originally posted by STITCHES
Actually, nobody needs you to explain why things are good or bad....because your opinion is no more true or intelligent than anyone else's
lol. |
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STITCHES
= Cult of Ray =
USA
915 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2004 : 09:58:12
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I'm glad I could bring a smile to your face and some sunshine to your day
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MY LOVE IS LIKE A TICKING CLOCK--BERSERKER!
WOULD YOU LIKE TO SUCK MY COCK--BERSERKER! |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2004 : 10:01:08
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quote:
Originally posted by STITCHES
I'm glad I could bring a smile to your face and some sunshine to your day
yeah more sunshine please, it's still 32 F outside. |
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STITCHES
= Cult of Ray =
USA
915 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2004 : 10:04:04
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ok....a Jewish guy and a Chinese guy walk into a bar....waitaminute, you're not Jewish or Chinese, are you?
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MY LOVE IS LIKE A TICKING CLOCK--BERSERKER!
WOULD YOU LIKE TO SUCK MY COCK--BERSERKER! |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2004 : 10:05:53
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Nice to see someone who can make STITCHES look calm and rational.
 "I joined the Cult Of Cheese/E-Damn!" |
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STITCHES
= Cult of Ray =
USA
915 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2004 : 10:06:40
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whatever do you mean, kind sir?
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MY LOVE IS LIKE A TICKING CLOCK--BERSERKER!
WOULD YOU LIKE TO SUCK MY COCK--BERSERKER! |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2004 : 10:07:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Cheeseman1000
Nice to see someone who can make STITCHES look calm and rational.
ok thanks a lot for your wonderfully insightful and useful comment, Cheeseman1000. |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2004 : 08:48:23
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| sarcasm!!! |
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