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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
 Posted - 12/18/2003 : 15:15:46
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9/11 Chair: Attack Was Preventable
NEW YORK, Dec. 17, 2003
(CBS) For the first time, the chairman of the independent commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks is saying publicly that 9/11 could have and should have been prevented by the Bush Administration, reports CBS News Correspondent Randall Pinkston.
"This is a very, very important part of history and we've got to tell it right," said Thomas Kean.
"As you read the report, you're going to have a pretty clear idea what wasn't done and what should have been done," he said. "This was not something that had to happen."
Appointed by the Bush administration, Kean, a former Republican governor of New Jersey, is now pointing fingers inside the administration and laying blame.
To find out who failed and why, the commission has navigated a political landmine, threatening a subpoena to gain access to the president's top-secret daily briefs. Those documents may shed light on one of the most controversial assertions of the Bush administration - that there was never any thought given to the idea that terrorists might fly an airplane into a building.
"I don't think anybody could have predicted that they would try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile," said national security adviser Condoleeza Rice on May 16, 2002.
"How is it possible we have a national security advisor coming out and saying we had no idea they could use planes as weapons when we had FBI records from 1991 stating that this is a possibility," said Kristen Breitweiser, one of four New Jersey widows who lobbied Congress and the president to appoint the commission.
The widows want to know why various government agencies didn't connect the dots before Sept. 11, such as warnings from FBI offices in Minnesota and Arizona about suspicious student pilots.
"If you were to tell me that two years after the murder of my husband that we wouldn't have one question answered, I wouldn't believe it," Breitweiser said.
Kean admits the commission also has more questions than answers.
Asked whether we should at least know if people sitting in the decision-making spots on that critical day are still in those positions, Kean said, "Yes, the answer is yes. And we will."
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2003 : 15:25:00
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I hope they uncover more dirt on this before the elections to show that the government could have prevented this. Now, sure it could be a lot of "shoulda coulda woulda," cause we all know hindsight is 20/20...but if they actually find you know, obvious negligence on their behalf, or the mishandling of certain aspects that could have prevented this, then that could actually be used as evidence. There’s little doubt in my mind the government, in part or in whole, allowed this to happen. It was the best thing to happen to the Bush administration. Look at how the past 2 years have been spent…3 out of 4 years of his term have been used to push his own agenda. Chances of him getting his way without these events happening seem pretty slim to me. First, crush the hope and the will and the outlook of the people, second, rebuild them in your standards. In Bush we trust.
 "I joined the Cult of Clops / If I were you, I'd sleep with one eye open." |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2003 : 15:41:11
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Unfortunately, there will always be scapegoats, and for many many years, the powers that be have made it a point to make sure the standing president has full deniability. Nixon was the closest it ever got, and he just decided to resign. And guess who got a full pardon not too long after that...
They'll just point fingers and drop a few in the administration or intelligence agencies. Either way, if there was gross negligence -or- a conspiracy, it's alot bigger than just one administration.
Sorry, but I'm ever the (trying to be hopeful) cynic when it comes to politics.
 Swedish Chef's "Dumpling of Wisdom": Øder tis moodle in der noggin tu smacken der ouchey und vinger-slingers ur to smacken-backen und fix de morkin, yøobetcha! |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2003 : 16:48:56
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I don't believe that it was a deliberate allowance of the government's to let 9/11 happen, nor do I believe that it was some hideous oversight to not think about the possibility that terrorists could use an airplane to fly into a building. An oversight, yes, but not one that I could rationally blame the U.S. government for as though they absolutely should've known better. Right now, we may or may not think about the possibility that someone could use some new way to inflict terror upon the nation, but rest assured that when it does happen people will say, "oh, well, how could we have missed that?" We look back on the events that followed World War II and from our advanced outlook in history we say, "Well, if Roosevelt/Truman had played their cards a little bit differently, we could've avoided the Cold War." There is no understating the hindsight scenario here, in my opinion.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2003 : 16:57:45
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Although I can kind of see where people are coming from, maybe if I had lost someone in the 9/11 attacks I'd feel completely differently.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2003 : 18:33:01
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I've always thought that Bush let it happen. This administration is pure concentrated evil and I only pray there's a way the masses can realize that before the election. When I think about how evil and corrupt Bush is and what he does to other people for his own gain I just want to cry.
 "I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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Hordak
- FB Fan -
USA
180 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2003 : 19:27:10
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| I don't wish for Bush's reelection but I honestly do not believe that the administration let this happen. Hmph. Maybe we should go to a monarchy. |
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Frog in the Sand
-+ Le premiere frog +-
France
2715 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 00:46:04
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I recently read an incredible story about a FBI agent, a counterterrorism investigator, who had vainly tried to warn his superiors about the terrorist attacks. The guy resigned in disgust and finally died on 9/11 in the World Trade Center!!! Does anyone remember his name?
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11690 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 06:38:32
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Much as I dislike Bush and his administration, I doubt highly that it was knowingly allowed to happen. Way too much economic cost plus providing fuel to terrorists and symbolizing that America is in fact weak...
 "Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
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STITCHES
= Cult of Ray =
USA
915 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 06:42:55
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isn't there alot of evidence that the British found out about Japanes plans to attack Pearl Harbor and didn't let the US know because they needed us to enter the war?
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MAMASAYMAMASAMAMACOOSA |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 07:56:54
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"Sept. 11 Panel Chief Cites Mistakes, No Names
Fri Dec 19, 2003 12:23 AM ET
By JoAnne Allen
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The head of an independent panel investigating the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on New York and Washington said on Thursday that a number of "mistakes" allowed the hijackings to occur but top people in government were not necessarily to blame.
We have no evidence that anybody ... high in the Clinton administration or high in the Bush administration did anything wrong," Thomas Kean, chairman of the so called 9/11 commission, said on ABC's "Nightline."
Kean said a series of "mistakes in the line" over time led to the lapses that made it possible for the hijackers to carry out the strikes on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon (news - web sites).
"There were people who let people on planes with weapons that shouldn't have been allowed. There were people at our borders who allowed visas to be accepted that were not adequately filled out," Kean said. "There were reports from the FBI (news - web sites) which got up to the middle level somewhere and then seemed to get lost before they were acted on."
Kean, a former Republican governor of New Jersey, had said on Wednesday in a CBS interview that the Sept. 11 tragedy "was not something that had to happen" and suggested that some people in critical positions should have been fired.
He clarified his comments after a White House spokesman declared earlier on Thursday that the Bush administration had seen no evidence which suggested that the attacks could have been prevented.
The 10-member National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States is charged with examining lapses in intelligence and national security.
The commission subpoenaed information from some agencies and threatened to subpoena the White House for access to Oval Office intelligence reports and other documents. But Kean insisted that he is satisfied with the level of cooperation the panel has received from the Bush administration.
"We haven't got everything that we've asked for up to this point, but we've got a lot of it," Kean said on ABC. He said some of the agencies were subpoenaed because the commission was not getting the documents it needs quickly enough.
The commission, created by Congress last year, must complete its work by May 2004, a deadline some members have said might be impossible to meet because of the administration's delays."
Leave it Reuters to end this corrective article with a jab at Bush.
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STITCHES
= Cult of Ray =
USA
915 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 07:59:53
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erebus, you're so cute
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MAMASAYMAMASAMAMACOOSA |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 08:22:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
..."The commission, created by Congress last year, must complete its work by May 2004, a deadline some members have said might be impossible to meet because of the administration's delays."
Leave it Reuters to end this corrective article with a jab at Bush.
(Friendly discussion here) Do you mean to say that the administration has not been delaying the release of pertinent material? To be fair, I think it's a valid statement. As a general rule, news outlets, on the "right" and the "left" usually take every chance to spin a news story on anything; even a true statement can be a spin, by its very inclusion, and by the exclusion of other pieces of news - but does it make it invalid, or not newsworthy? Thanks Erebus for posting a second story to round out the first a little.
Swedish Chef's "Dumpling of Wisdom": Øder tis moodle in der noggin tu smacken der ouchey und vinger-slingers ur to smacken-backen und fix de morkin, yøobetcha! |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 11:17:24
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I dunno..depends on what you consider 'doing something wrong' is.
Regardless, this does nothing to dispell that people knew, and didn't do anything to prevent 9/11. (Nice spin..heh..focus on who to blame, not why we're blaming them..) |
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Erebus
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1834 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 15:54:30
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quote:
Originally posted by apl4eris
quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
..."The commission, created by Congress last year, must complete its work by May 2004, a deadline some members have said might be impossible to meet because of the administration's delays."
Leave it Reuters to end this corrective article with a jab at Bush.
(Friendly discussion here) Do you mean to say that the administration has not been delaying the release of pertinent material? To be fair, I think it's a valid statement. As a general rule, news outlets, on the "right" and the "left" usually take every chance to spin a news story on anything; even a true statement can be a spin, by its very inclusion, and by the exclusion of other pieces of news - but does it make it invalid, or not newsworthy? Thanks Erebus for posting a second story to round out the first a little.
Friendly!? Friendly!? Can I do friendly? OK, I'll try. Frankly, I don't know much about the merits of the administration's obstinance, but yes, certainly the delay would impact the deadline. So the statement is valid on the face of it. But, as you intuit, I object to the pattern of Reuters, the BBC, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, and even the Associated Press of spinning such stories at an editorial level. I understand and expect it from openly partisan sources such as the Washington Times, National Review, the Nation, AlterNet, etc., but given the breadth of the reach of Reuters, et al, I think they violate the public trust. I'm something of the naive purist on this: just give us the facts as you understand them. Don't tell us it's a "crisis". Just tell us what happened. Don't provide a few tactically lifted quotes which piece together to make a certain case. Give us the entire quote, the entire speech, the entire interview. It't not too much of a stretch to imagine a culture with a deep taboo against excerpting ANYTHING.
If there must be speculation, don't consistently provide one-sided speculation that spins against the same side all the time. I know it's quaint for me to hold out such expectations, but, damn, if they had even minimal journalistic integrity, .... Is it too much of a stretch to expect them to at least take a stab at virtue?
Anyway, that's the background on my jab back at Reuters. So far as I can tell, and I do pay close attention, since 9/11 Reuters and the BBC made had no bones about their anti-Bush, anti-American mission. Freedom of the press entails commensurate duties and obligations. |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 17:48:35
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quote:
Originally posted by STITCHES
isn't there alot of evidence that the British found out about Japanes plans to attack Pearl Harbor and didn't let the US know because they needed us to enter the war?
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MAMASAYMAMASAMAMACOOSA
Never heard about this theory before, sounds plausible though. There is also a similar one that says the US knew about plans for an attack on Pearl Harbor but allowed it to happen to justify joining the war.
In terms of allowing the Sept 11th to pass, I seriously doubt that any government would allow that to happen.... surely if they had caught wind of plans to destroy the WTC then this would have been enough justification to declare war in itself. Afterall, the US made up phoney evidence about WMD in Iraq and used that as a basis for an invasion.
Who's the man that won't cop out when there's danger all about? |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 18:29:11
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Re: Pearl Harbor
Do a Google search of the McCollum Memo. Basicly, it outlined 8 different plans to provoke the Japanese...after all 8 points were put into action, the Japs attacked the US, and the US was pushed into the war. Before that, the American people didn't want to go into the war.
Forgive any inaccuracies...Google, google...goooo.......
"I joined the Cult of Clops / If I were you, I'd sleep with one eye open." |
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anazgnos
= Cult of Ray =
USA
384 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 20:32:20
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quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
Re: Pearl Harbor
Do a Google search of the McCollum Memo. Basicly, it outlined 8 different plans to provoke the Japanese...after all 8 points were put into action, the Japs attacked the US, and the US was pushed into the war. Before that, the American people didn't want to go into the war.
Forgive any inaccuracies...Google, google...goooo.......
"I joined the Cult of Clops / If I were you, I'd sleep with one eye open."
awww man, you beat me to it. Another point is that FDR rode to victory in 1940 by promising the public no entry into WWII while simultaneously pledging US Military force to Churchill behind the scenes. By way of drawing a parallel, one might go so far as to suggest that some in our current government might have felt, before the fact, that an attack such as 9/11 would facilitate certain tactical goals in US military operations in the middle east.
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Edited by - anazgnos on 12/19/2003 20:33:30 |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2003 : 23:49:43
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| Erebus - well said about the press. |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2003 : 06:31:35
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quote:
Originally posted by anazgnos
quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
Re: Pearl Harbor: Do a Google search of the McCollum Memo. Basicly, it outlined 8 different plans to provoke the Japanese...after all 8 points were put into action, the Japs attacked the US, and the US was pushed into the war. Before that, the American people didn't want to go into the war. Forgive any inaccuracies... Google, google...goooo...
awww man, you beat me to it. Another point is that FDR rode to victory in 1940 by promising the public no entry into WWII while simultaneously pledging US Military force to Churchill behind the scenes. By way of drawing a parallel, one might go so far as to suggest that some in our current government might have felt, before the fact, that an attack such as 9/11 would facilitate certain tactical goals in US military operations in the middle east.
This is very close to my own near-conclusion, when trying to understand what ulterior motives could be important enough to the government for a 9/11 conspiracy . In order to follow this path of logic, you have to consider first that National Security, and foreign policy, is not based on just protecting even a few thousand citizens. Consider the losses our country has taken in its many wars, to a future end of peace and freedom, terms as defined by the current leaders of the time and by history books. Then to fathom the weight of the turmoil in the Middle East (arguably the hub for control of the entire hemisphere, with military and capitalist prescence in a very influential area) and lines of power moving out of control in the world (the institution of the EU; oil and OPEC and its whole economy of power, which is in itself a means of controlling the workings of the geopolitical dialogue, and is not at all just about fuel), and the think tanks and intelligence agencies (let's not forget our current President's father used to be the head of the CIA) who subscribe to a philosophy of installing unrest and political upheaval to institute policy and governmental change (most often, for the benefit of in-country companies), as well as the installation of a level of control by the US from afar, via "helping" the country to get back on its feet, and thereby having our people involved in that country's workings indefinitely. Consider the crimes against humanity that have resulted from our behind the scenes policies and intelligence workings in countries like Venezuela, Nicaragua, Chile, etc.
I think that a "conspiracy" (otherwise known as foreign policy and national security planning) is just as likely as any other explanation we have been given. It is certainly easier to believe (using Occam's razor) than the concept that a global network, birthed of our country's planning to control the power of the Soviet Union during the Cold War, all of a sudden became out of hand and moved beneath our incredibly powerful radar. I would recommend to anyone who has not already, that they visit www.newamericancentury.org . The policy is spelled out in black and white, and it is not a conspiracy, per se, it is the way our nation has worked since it began, whenever it opened its borders. There is the truth that the majority is lead to believe through control of public dialogue, or the truth it wants to believe, and there is what really goes on, in our "best interest". What I want to know is, when our Constitution and our Bill of Rights are brazenly disregarded under our very noses, even by our representatives, and we say things like "Well, I don't mind, I'm not doing anything wrong, so it doesn't bother me", and our national media has never, that's right, never, been "truthful", what right have we to disagree that 2+2=5?
 www.discordis.com//chef_icon3.jpg" border="0">Swedish Chef's "Dumpling of Wisdom":Swedish Chef's "Dumpling of Wisdom": Øder tis moodle in der noggin tu smacken der ouchey und vinger-slingers ur to smacken-backen und fix de morkin, yøobetcha! |
Edited by - apl4eris on 12/20/2003 06:38:03 |
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