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TarTar
* Dog in the Sand *
1965 Posts |
 Posted - 12/03/2003 : 02:04:43
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Okay, I've discussed this theory I have about FB&TC's self-titled record with Pixies/FB fans before, and it's time I mention it here. It seems to me that perhaps Charles was coming to terms with the Pixies when he was writing and recording this album. For instance, about 22 seconds into The King and Queen of Siam, Frank does a screeching "ooowaaaaah" that is very similar to the wail he does at the beginning of Gigantic. The lyrics refer to resurrecting a relationship, but skeptical about doing so because 'the mountain of forever is too high to climb.' Were Black Francis and Kim Deal the King and Queen of Siam he's referring to? Gigantic was a song that they wrote together (though in some places it's just credited to Kim Deal, while other places so Black Francis had a hand in writing it), so him doing the little homage to Gigantic at the beginning of King and Queen of Siam is a clue that this theory is not completely outrageous. Additionally, in the song Solid Gold, is Frank saying to Kim that if the Pixies were to reunite, the success of their reunion would bring them both great fortune? He just needs her finger to play that bass. "I'd give you solid gold just for your finger."
Do You Feel Bad About It? could also very well be about the Pixies break up. All My Ghosts could very well be about Frank Black having to hear about the Pixies everywhere he goes. And the reference to In Heaven from I Gotta Move is there, though I know that was mostly to speak about Peter Ivers (one of the songs' composers) being murdered in the gay bashing. But still, it's awesome to hear Frank say, "In heaven, every everything is fine" one more time. I know that often it seems as though Frank wants to leave the Pixies in the past, but I also know that he has talked about accepting the fact that they will forever be what he is chiefly known for, and perhaps he was coming to terms with this at the time of this album, and had some mixed feelings about the possibility of returning to his glory days (at least what the majority considered to be his glory days). Cult of Ray had just been universally reviled by both fans and critics, and I know he doesn't pay much attention to reviews, but I'm sure he knew what was going on with the albums general reception, and this made him nostalgic for the days when his work was almost unconditionally praised. I'm just throwing out some theories.
Turned everything black by spitting on the sun |
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TarTar
* Dog in the Sand *
1965 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 02:10:53
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I knew I forgot one. The Man Who Was Too Loud could also be about the transition from the frantic, hyperactive Pixies sound to the more roots rock that Frank Black was starting to move towards at this point. Though I Switched You from the next album was definitely a step backwards towards the furious screams and spy basslines of the Pixies.
Turned everything black by spitting on the sun |
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dogjones
- FB Fan -
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 02:12:36
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when someone sends you a 10 ft. fax that says "you're fired" to usher out your exit from the band, that speaks a lot about how coveted you are.
a big part of the breakup ive always thought lied in the fact frank did almost all the work on the last 2 pixies albums...and if youre gonna do all the work yourself anyway...why let a junkie bass player that cant be bothered to hook up her phone and use it continue to get a coattail ride?
The Breeders minus steve albini = just another 1/2 assed indie rock band playing simple sounding music...
Frank and joey getting along has been a long standing assumption and their little pixie drummer boy is no stranger, himself.
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TarTar
* Dog in the Sand *
1965 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 02:29:54
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I feel as though you're being a bit unfair to Kim. I think it's obvious that she wanted to have a bigger role in composing songs and singing, and it was because Charles saw the Pixies as his band (which they were) that she got frustrated with having to stand back and play the bass and occasionally do backing vocals, the latter of which were very sparse on the last two Pixies record, especially Trompe, where I believe the first singing she does is on Palace of the Brine, which is almost halfway into the record. She may have played a part in her being basically invisible on the last record by having little interest in what the band was doing at that point. While she definitely is not up to the same level of Charles when it comes to writing and performing, she is certainly far from being void of possessing these skills, and I think it is a shame that she didn't have more input in the Pixies. I'm sure this opinion will receive a mixed reaction from Pixies fans, since many will argue that the Pixies WERE Charles Thompson, but many of those same people say that they don't like his solo work (you won't find many of those people at this forum), and obviously a big part of his solo work sounding so different is the fact that it's different musicians performing the songs, and I say this knowing that he did want to avoid the Pixies sound on his first solo album, and I think that he has since continued to evolve from that intentional deviation.
Wow, I lost where I was at. This is quite a long-winded, convolution, twist-n-turn tangent. I'll stop for now and allow for some input from others.
Turned everything black by spitting on the sun |
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dogjones
- FB Fan -
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 03:05:36
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dont read too much into it...i hate kim, never liked much she contributed to the pixies, and the breeders are poison to my stereo.
yeah, mr. charles did have a bit more creative control over the band than some members...deal did write a lotta the songs in the breeders project, im not calling her tallentless eye candy.
honestly, i like bosanova, but as far as the pixies go...i can do without a lot of the earlier art-house 20 year old musings about all the girls frank never got to bone or wished he could bone again.
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6221 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 05:55:20
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I think Kim Deal is very talented and that the Breeders make great records, although I think it's still a bit too much pixies-like.
But about the FB and The C's self titled:
I think the screeching sound at the begining of King and Queen of Siam doesn't sound like the Gigantic sream at all.
And If you want to
you can read a link to his pixies past
in almost every FB song
Especially the songs that sound personal
And every 'she' or 'girl' could be Kim
But to be honest I don't think he writes that much about them
He maybe hasn't written a single line about the pixies or kim
All the possible links on the self titled you suggest are a bit too
vague to me. Only the Man Who Was Too Loud is clear, but that seems to be about Jonathan Richman.
I'm not saying your completely wrong her, but I hardly believe it
 "I joined the Culf of Frank/ And now I do not know what...to do" |
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dogjones
- FB Fan -
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 06:27:39
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hmm...yeah, i should clarify...when i said "dont read too much into it" i meant my 1st post about deal/frank/etc...not to curb your own thoughts.
i just wanted to clarify that cuz it can be taken a multitude of ways. |
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WolfManMikeLonely
= Cult of Ray =
USA
936 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 09:06:49
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On another note am I the only one that thinks "I Just Want to Get Along" from Last Splash might be a bit about the Pixies?
"Hey fuck you if you don't like it."
-Johnny Thunders
www.transposed.net |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 10:09:28
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interesting theory, but i think you're stretching it a bit. just because you're obsessed with the Pixies doesn't mean Charles is.
i sincerely doubt that any of his songs are about Pixies break-up drama, aside from a few possible references sprinkled in.. he moved on, as he should have.. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6221 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 10:26:08
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yes floop said it well
I just wanna get along, really sounds like a pixies related song
But it was written at the pod-era and demoed in that time (you can find those demo's at noaloha.com), the pixies were still together!
It could also be about Kim divorve
"I joined the Culf of Frank/ And now I do not know what...to do" |
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Ebb Vicious
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1162 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 10:58:54
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sorry you're way off base. it's obvious what 'the man who was too loud' is about, and it has been covered on these very forums.
just because one line or lyric referrences something doesn't mean the whole song is about that thing. |
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Adnan_le_Terrible
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1973 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 11:56:14
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In an interview, Frank says that when he covers some personal issues in his songs, he always puts them "something to wear".
Songs such as "Czar" or "The man who was too loud" are about some other persons, though they are also closely related to some Frank's personal issues. As well as "Hang on to your ego". And it is a very nice way to express your feelings, by being enough elegant not to expose them like Pearl Jam in "I'm still alive".
I love art when it can be interpreted in different ways.
 "I met a man/ he was a good man" |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6221 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 14:47:00
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Yeah, didn't Frank say about all those Break Up songs on BLD/DW and DITS (hasn't got many of them, maybe stupid me) that they are just country and western songs and that the lyrics are just traditional sad and that there was little truth in them.
Well that turned out to be divorcing-songs, real ones, not just some country and western stories....
I remember a quote from Jean, that Frank said in a interview:You write lovely songs Charles, but your fans are gonna think I'm a bitch
That implies that the songs were not about her, but we know now that they are about her indeed.
"I joined the Culf of Frank/ And now I do not know what...to do" |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 20:27:34
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The Man Who Was Too Loud is about Jonathan Richman. I Just Want To Get Along sounds totally like a Pixies-related song, but it's sung by Kelly. I don't know if there were any Pixies references really...I know he's gradually come to terms more these days with the Pixies than he has in the past, that's for sure.
 "I joined the Cult of Clops / If I were you, I'd sleep with one eye open." |
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The New Bolero
= Cult of Ray =
394 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2003 : 23:11:37
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| I get the same thing out of "All My Ghosts" but you're probably trying way too hard to connect the other songs to the old band, TarTar. |
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the swimmer
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1602 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 07:45:03
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Yeah, but Tar Tar, it does show ingenuity and imagination on your part. You can decide whatever you want to...and you can share it with us who can be enlightened by your take on it.
So please keep on keeping on despite what some unimaginative and plain rude blockheads have to say about it. |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6221 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 08:29:27
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Kelley sung I just wanna get along
But she didnīt on the POD demo version
she didnīt write it
it could be about the pixies
"I joined the Culf of Frank/ And now I do not know what...to do" |
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dougit
- FB Fan -
87 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2003 : 11:44:57
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frank does not need the original members of the pixies, really.
he could play any and all pixies songs with the current band members.
and he does play a few pixies songs in concert to this day.
and oh yea, I believe the premise of the original post to be incorrect.
But, that album is actually my all-time favorite of all Frank's work.
It rocks the best, and it is Lyle at his best....but this idea is for another thread. |
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Adnan_le_Terrible
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1973 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2003 : 04:54:10
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quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
The Man Who Was Too Loud is about Jonathan Richman. I Just Want To Get Along sounds totally like a Pixies-related song, but it's sung by Kelly. I don't know if there were any Pixies references really...I know he's gradually come to terms more these days with the Pixies than he has in the past, that's for sure.
"I joined the Cult of Clops / If I were you, I'd sleep with one eye open."
My point is that the choice of these famous persons Frank is singing about, like Jonathan Richman or John Denver, is not innocent : if I had to write a song about a famous person, I would probably try to identify myself with this person.
This is not necessarily related to the Pixies. One thing about good songs is you can always relate them to various particular issues.
Baby that's art !
"I met a man/ he was a good man" |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2003 : 05:10:24
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I always thought the man who was too loud was about Dick Dale, but I should investigate. Maybe we should have a song oracle 'song of the day' thread on this track. Or have we already...?
"What are we going to do tonight, Brain?"
"Same thing we do every night, Pinky: try to take over the world!" |
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Adnan_le_Terrible
* Dog in the Sand *
France
1973 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2003 : 05:27:49
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"I saw him open up for the king of the surf guitar"
Since Dick Dale is the king of the surf guitar, he cannot be the man who was too loud. It's all about logic, Pinky.
"I met a man/ he was a good man" |
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Brackish Girl
~ Soul Eater ~
Ireland
1750 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2003 : 10:02:31
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
interesting theory, but i think you're stretching it a bit. just because you're obsessed with the Pixies doesn't mean Charles is.
i sincerely doubt that any of his songs are about Pixies break-up drama, aside from a few possible references sprinkled in.. he moved on, as he should have..
thank you tony. you're finally right about something...
 "I joined the Cult of Trippy/...what was i singing again???" |
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allison
- FB Fan -
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2003 : 05:43:49
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tar tar,
don't listen to any of these clowns. i think you are right about that album. how can frank black ignore something as monumental as the pixies, even if he wanted to? i think it had a huge impact on him and forever will. i hear references to the pixies in a lot of his songs. "i've seen your picture all over the place. i turn the corner and see your face". |
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DruggedBunny
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
395 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2003 : 13:25:30
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quote:
backing vocals, the latter of which were very sparse on the last two Pixies record, especially Trompe, where I believe the first singing she does is on Palace of the Brine
Actually, I have to debate this -- I finally realised last week that Kim does the outro on Alec Eiffel -- it's her singing "Oh, Alexander/I see you beneath the archway of aerodynamics"... I always thought it was Charles, but it ain't (though he may be buried in the mix there too).
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2003 : 13:53:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Cheeseman1000
I always thought the man who was too loud was about Dick Dale, but I should investigate. Maybe we should have a song oracle 'song of the day' thread on this track. Or have we already...?
He says "Johnny is a rich man" in the song - which seems pretty clear to me. Combined with what Adnan said, it all seems to make sense. This would be a great song for Song of the Day though... |
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BLT
> Teenager of the Year <
South Sandwich Islands
4204 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2003 : 15:44:23
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quote:
Originally posted by allison
how can frank black ignore something as monumental as the pixies, even if he wanted to?
Two reasons I think of:
-He's not starstruck on the Pixies and himself like some people on this board
-Because maybe to him it was just a band he had. People who are truly creative don't dwell on what they accomplished in the past. They live for what they're doing today.
 "Join the Cult of Dustin / And vanish without a trace" |
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ProverbialCereal
- FB TabMaster -
USA
2953 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2003 : 17:48:56
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People can analyze how Frank is singing about the Pixies, but I don't think he is in most cases. I mean, you could probably find just as many things in Pixies lyrics that prophesize their demise, but that too would probably be a stretch.
 "Join the Cult of Gunn / And you'll get an eighties Monster Ballad CD just for joining" |
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TarTar
* Dog in the Sand *
1965 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2003 : 01:02:21
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I'm not giving up on this one. The songs on FB and the C are ordered alphabetically, much like many of the Pixies setlists.
Turned everything black by spitting on the sun |
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billgoodman
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Netherlands
6221 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2003 : 02:37:57
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I don't believe it's kim in the outro of Alec Eiffel, can't remember her singing in the video too.
"I joined the Culf of Frank/ And now I do not know what...to do" |
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Brackish Girl
~ Soul Eater ~
Ireland
1750 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2003 : 13:55:37
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i think its kim and frank cos you can hear their prononciations(i can't spell, i know). just like in the outro to all over the world.
"I joined the Cult of Trippy/...what was i singing again???" |
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anazgnos
= Cult of Ray =
USA
383 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2003 : 15:18:27
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quote:
Originally posted by allison
tar tar,
don't listen to any of these clowns. i think you are right about that album. how can frank black ignore something as monumental as the pixies, even if he wanted to? i think it had a huge impact on him and forever will. i hear references to the pixies in a lot of his songs. "i've seen your picture all over the place. i turn the corner and see your face".
jeeezus...
 "join the Cult of the Triforium / If we form a circle round it / in our white robes / God will surely play for us / the authentic Celestial Music / at last" |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2003 : 16:13:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Brackish Girl
quote:
Originally posted by floop
interesting theory, but i think you're stretching it a bit. just because you're obsessed with the Pixies doesn't mean Charles is.
i sincerely doubt that any of his songs are about Pixies break-up drama, aside from a few possible references sprinkled in.. he moved on, as he should have..
thank you tony. you're finally right about something...
"I joined the Cult of Trippy/...what was i singing again???"
hey, what's that all about? (haven't checked this thread in a while).. are you suggesting that i've been wrong before, silly girl? |
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IceCream
= Quote Accumulator =
USA
1850 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2003 : 19:24:43
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quote:
I'm not giving up on this one. The songs on FB and the C are ordered alphabetically, much like many of the Pixies setlistssssss.
I think that this is the most substantial piece of your theory. Honestly, I thought most parts of your theory were a stretch, but not this one. Even if your theory is a 'stretch' like most people claim, I think that it is a very well-developed and interesting theory. I have enjoyed reading it. |
Edited by - IceCream on 12/16/2003 19:25:23 |
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Crispy Water
= Cult of Ray =
Canada
819 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2003 : 01:00:12
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Yeah, whether people agree with it or not, there is some credit due for at least trying to come up with a new idea rather than just coming on here and going, "Ooh, Frank Black is God and I'm his biggest fan in the world."
Nothing is ever something. |
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equant
- FB Fan -
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2003 : 09:18:53
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quote:
Originally posted by TarTar
...and spy basslines of the Pixies.
What are spy basslines? |
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