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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
 Posted - 11/01/2003 : 06:36:08
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Two nights ago I attended a lecture on UFOs and I thought it was extremely interesting. The speaker had a lot of persausive evidence favoring the existence of UFOs. Apparently you can contact either the CIA or Pentagon and demand certain documents under the Freedom of Information Act. Among these documents is one called "UFOs Concerning" which details the finding of a space craft as well as rcovering beings not of this planet and about 3 ft. tall.
The theory for why there were so many sightings in the 40's and 50's is that we were just beginning to experiment with nuclear power then. Hundreds of the documented sightings occurred at Nuclear test sites and power plants. There are accounts from the US that missiles have shut down in the presence of a UFO and in Russia two missiles simultaneously prepared to launch for 15 seconds, without anyone turning the keys, then they shut down; this too happened just as a UFO was sighted.
This kind of thing has always interested me. I don't see why it should be impossible, in fact I think it's improbable that UFOs and aliens don't exist. The speaker gave us some resources to check out. Here are the ones I can remember off the top of my head.
www.fufor.com
www.cufon.org
www.ufoskeptic.com
What does everyone here think?
 "I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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WolfManMikeLonely
= Cult of Ray =
USA
936 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2003 : 09:26:27
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I have a terrible fear of aliens. I don't know if they exist or not, but if they do then I'm really really scared.
"Hey fuck you if you don't like it."
-Johnny Thunders |
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Cheeseman1000
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
Iceland
8201 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2003 : 09:30:02
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I Believe In Space... in fact I think Space Is Gonna Do Me Good!
 "I have joined the Cult Of Frank/And I have dearly paid"
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2003 : 09:45:28
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Also, www.NUFORC.org - Sightings from all over the country, and it's a searchable database to boot. :) BTW, I hope this doesn't bring any dark-suited visitors my way, but both myself and my husband (as well as friends and family) have had several "UFO" sightings. I figure most of them can be explained as either skunkworks technology or other objects manmade or natural phenomena. There are other instances that I have doubts about, though. If you ever have an experience, you should try to record it in any way possible. I tend to forget quite a bit of detail after a while, even though at the time it is so amazing and time-stopping I can't believe I could ever forget anything about it. I would actually like to believe that they do *not* exist, because the concept that they could worries me. It is just as plausible, however, that they could be us, from a different dimension or time. Or that this planet is the only one in the universe that is capable of sustaining any form of life. All equally plausible. It is a romantic notion, that I like to try to believe in, that there are aliens with good intentions watching us. "Nice dream"
"They love me like I was a brother
They protect me
Listen to me
They dug me my very own garden
Gave me sunshine
Made me happy. nice dream."
-Radiohead |
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Chris Knight
= Cult of Ray =
USA
899 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2003 : 10:00:24
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| I love that song! |
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Chris Knight
= Cult of Ray =
USA
899 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2003 : 10:04:35
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| I've had maybe one miniscule/sketchy UFO encounter, though my mum claims to have seen a large flying saucer hovering over a hillside at night once in the '70s. |
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Coldheartofstone
* Dog in the Sand *
Canada
2025 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2003 : 10:18:29
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Some people i know in Barbados were telling me about a time when they were sitting on the beach late on night, and looking out onto the sea. The saw a light, which is not unusual seeing as there are boats and everthing else out there at night, but this light began to rapidly approach them. and they couldn't believe what they saw, so they got up and started to run away... and thats about where the story ended.... It could have been some sort of space travellers, or it could have been the Ganja.
She was looking for some...place....to go.... |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2003 : 10:42:17
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Count on you for a thoughtful response apl :) However, I don't think it's at all plausible that ours is the only planet capable of sustaining life. We found the potential for life on Mars; whether or not there ever was life on Mars doesn't matter - Mars is only a stone's throw away from Earth. If space is infinite I'd bet my soul that there's life elsewhere.
As for sightings, I though I saw a UFO once when I was a kid but I don't trust my memory anymore. Like you said apl, it's a good idea to write it down otherwise you'll probably doubt yourself. My grandfather always swore he saw one.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2003 : 10:48:45
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I'm totally with ya there scutor. I'm watching Mars too, and my back. I'm waiting for Europa, Io, and Jupiter. It's only a matter of time. Did you take a look at that "Solar Coronal Mass..." thread? Heard about the big black spot on Jupiter? I'll give you some accounts of my own and others' when my hands warm up again. It's cold in my studio all of a sudden. I Want to Believe.
But I'm pretty sure whenever there's a chance, we'll screw it up somehow.
and Remember:
"Toynbee ideas in Kubrick's 2001 resurrect dead on planet Jupiter"
www.toynbee.net |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2003 : 11:18:06
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just checked out that thread apl. thanks.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2003 : 11:29:34
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Just read that article about the black spot. intersting stuff.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2003 : 11:44:20
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I don't doubt the existance of alien lifeforms...UFOs, I don't know. I think it'd be very...selfish?...of us to think we're the only lifeforms in the entire universe. The only time I might have had a UFO experience was driving down the road during the day, there was this shiny reflective dot out in the sky, just kinda hovering there, and the second I pointed it out to the person in the car with me (don't remember who), it disappeared. Cue eerie music.
 "I joined the Cult of Clops / If I were you, I'd sleep with one eye open." |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2003 : 12:03:40
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The most damning thing about UFO's for me is pretty simple: motivation.
What interest could they possibly have in a self-destructive species such as ourself..?
I don't doubt there are other lifeforms in the universe, i think it's impossible that life *wouldn't* begin elsewhere. What i doubt is their interest here.
My guess is that these are more attempts by the gov't/black ops/whatever to confuse folks..create dissention, etc..
Like really - could a species advanced enough to travel the stars really be so immature as to create crop circles and do weird light formations in the sky??
Then again, that might be it. =P |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2003 : 12:24:24
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Just as we are not the only nation (i.e. the U.S.) to have ever done anything wrong in our country's past (the technology and means to do subversive things has grown, but human ambition and deciet over the course of history has stayed relatively the same) I don't believe alien races would necessarily be exempt from ever having done anything "backwards" or self-destructive. The optimistic side of me hopes that one day the human race will pull out of it's introverted, self-absorbed nature and do something noteworthy as a species, not as individual allegiances. That might sound unrealistic, but like I said it's just a hope, not an expectation. What I'm saying about visitors to our planet is that, while all the "evidence" we have for their existence is sketchy and probably isn't very valid, (like the crop circles and lights in the sky) if they DID actually come here, I wouldn't imagine them to have been guiltless of war, civil discrimination, etc. in their past. I just can't imagine a race that has been "perfect" throughout their whole history. The world may never know. (As in the wise words of the Tootsie Pop commercial announcer.) My opinion is that they'd have to be pretty hypocritical to dismiss us as not even being noteworthy enough to study.
This brings up an interesting point that kind of delves into the realm of theology. Just for a moment don't even consider religion. Whatever your own beliefs, just consider that we evolved from single-celled organisms, then into primitive oceanic creatures, then into amphibians, then into mammals, then primates, then humans. If we are a product of some evolutionary force, which seems to work to the benefit of individual species, and that same force is the driving factor behind life on other planets, is our current state just a result of us having gone horribly "awry" from the evolutionary track? More simply put, if other races do exist, are we so different? Is our history of violence, war, etc., the exception or the norm? |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2003 : 12:32:59
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Well those could all be messages of some kind. Again, they might have an interest in our nuclear power, if not for themselves simply for observational purposes. If we learned how to travel space we would take an interest in any living form, even monkeys.
And you have to think that they haven't taken that much interest in us. Maybe they were just stopping by to check us out, said "fuck it, these creatures are worthless" and took off. That's not so unlikely.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2003 : 12:39:20
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good points glacial. Another thought here is that perhaps we shouldn't be afraid of them. If they're advanced enough to achieve intergalactic travel perhaps they've also worked through the same theories of ethics as us. Then again, maybe they wouldn't care or maybe their ethics aren't at all evolved and they simply want our resources. If they saw us as primates they might think nothing of eliminating us.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2003 : 19:53:35
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"Kindness" looked at from an evolutionary standpoint (again, this is all hypothetical since I don't disbelieve in God) is not necessarily the most desirable trait a species can have. I don't think intelligence is either, because the only reason scientists believe that humans ever had the chance to evolve is because when the dinosaurs were wiped out, it left an evolutionary niche for us to fill. Who knows what would've happened if they had not been eradicated? Evolution is not a caring entity or anything, it is a force that doesn't give a rat's ass for individuals, or "fairness" or anything of the sort. Yeah, it looks for the best possible way to ensure the survival of the species to the optimum level, but because of that there's always going to be the losers in the situation. For that reason, maybe extra-terrestrials AREN'T going to be all friendly and nice to us, maybe they will just use our resources and not give us as a species a second thought. (A good example of this would be the Borg from Star Trek. They were pretty ambivalent about the races they assimilated, neither liking nor hating them, but they just didn't care that individuals would suffer.)
I would hope that aliens would not be like this, though, hopefully they would have basically the same overall set of moral values for sentient life as we do. I just thought what you said, Chris, sounded kind of possible. |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2003 : 20:40:54
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Neat thoughts there Chris.. We are unique from other species here, as none of them have, short of the beaver, destroy and over-run their 'range' as we have.
There are balances and systems, and they typically function within these, we've jumped out of this, so i'm not sure that we're really acting 'natually' in many instances.
I would guess kindness would be rather beneficial, as it would let members of a species function together, with more trust and understanding than without. In a wolf pack, if a wolf tries to be more selfish, they could be run from the pack..
Overall, i think people want to be kind, and have a similar desire to see a better life for all...but often are unable or disuaded from acting on this..eh? |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2003 : 20:41:18
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| Gee - i'm being sickeningly optomistic! |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2003 : 20:49:57
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| In my history class recently, we were talking about Darwin (Charles, not the dude who posts here, hehe!) but we got on the topic of evolution, and the teacher said that our intelligence was our evolutionary strength. While I believe this is true, I also stumped him because I asked if our intelligence was the ultimate goal of evolution. I wonder why, if our evolutionary benefit is our big brains, then why are we, like you said Dave, the only species besides the beaver that isn't in some sort of equilibrium with our enviornment. We use up our resources, etc, so this to me seems like the drawback. |
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apl4eris
~ Abstract Brain ~
USA
4800 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 08:57:42
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quote:
Originally posted by glacial906
I also stumped him because I asked if our intelligence was the ultimate goal of evolution. I wonder why, if our evolutionary benefit is our big brains, then why are we, like you said Dave, the only species besides the beaver that isn't in some sort of equilibrium with our enviornment. We use up our resources, etc, so this to me seems like the drawback.
The problem that I see in this paradox is that intelligence is not the goal but the means, and also, we do not all share the same intelligence, or views on what makes the most beneficial intelligence. It is our evolutionary means of survival, as somewhere along the way, a la the large apes in "2001", we started using tools/technology to widen the borders of natural selection and other systems of balance. Now we in the western world would be hard-pressed to survive without the tools that depend on us to continually create and maintain them. Like that scene in the awful Matrix Reloaded movie when the elder is doing a bad job of explaining his thoughts on the machines in the engineering room.
One of the difficulties with our chosen mode of survival is that we mostly use it for its own sake - almost in a form of self-worship. In essence, these things we think and create are so useful and beautiful, how could we doubt our own creativity? Marshall Mcluhan had some interesting things to say about technology and the human mind.
Marshall Mcluhan's four stages of a technology/tool:
1. enhancement, or the extensions
2. the obsolesced
3. the retrievals
4. the reversal
To his way of thinking, if we would sufficiently walk a technology design through these four steps/tests successfully, we have sufficiently put it through its course and it might be ready to use/create. I'm highly oversimplifying here, so I'll just put a link right'chere: http://edie.cprost.sfu.ca/~hempell/tetrad/concept.html
The way things work now, we develop a technology to serve short-term needs, damn the torpedoes, then we backfill when problems arise - constantly 1 step forward 2 steps back, in a recursive cancer that grows exponentially, as our technological abilities grow exponentially. This is the kind of stuff I've been obsessing about in my work, so I'm loving this debate. Hope I haven't gone overboard here :). |
Edited by - apl4eris on 11/02/2003 08:59:21 |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 13:55:52
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quote:
Originally posted by glacial906
Evolution is not a caring entity or anything, it is a force that doesn't give a rat's ass for individuals, or "fairness" or anything of the sort. Yeah, it looks for the best possible way to ensure the survival of the species to the optimum level, but because of that there's always going to be the losers in the situation.
This isn't correct. Evolution and natural selection is not shaping individuals for the good of the species. Evolution occurs at the level of the individual, or perhaps more accurately at the level of the individual's genes. This good of the species stuff is the MOST common mistake made in every evolutionary biology class. For example, imagine that there is a gene that either leads individuals to help other individuals in their group or not, but helping individuals benefits the group but hurts the individual slightly (for example giving an alarm call when a predator comes).This gene would be wiped because individuals that don't make the alarm call would get the benefit of others helping the group, but they would not pay the cost. Therefore, altruistic behavior for the good of the group or species is prevented by selection for individuals to maximize their own fitness.
This topic was fought out in the 60's (group selection vs. individual selection) with it almost universal concluded by evolutionary biologists that group thinking "for the good of the species" does not work. |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 14:06:10
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quote:
Originally posted by glacial906
In my history class recently, we were talking about Darwin (Charles, not the dude who posts here, hehe!) but we got on the topic of evolution, and the teacher said that our intelligence was our evolutionary strength. While I believe this is true, I also stumped him because I asked if our intelligence was the ultimate goal of evolution. I wonder why, if our evolutionary benefit is our big brains, then why are we, like you said Dave, the only species besides the beaver that isn't in some sort of equilibrium with our enviornment. We use up our resources, etc, so this to me seems like the drawback.
There is no goal in evolution, but it's driven by the fact that genes that lead to higher survival and reproduction will be abundant in the next generation. So, intelligence may be our strength it wasn't (or isn't) a goal.
Also, on the balance of nature idea. I don't think it can be said that other species are in balance with the environments. Sure there are feedback loops that might generally keep ecosystems aroudn some equilibrium. But species do go extinct (even before humans were damaging the planet) and ranges of species do change. For example, from pollen records we can see that North American forest have moved south and north as ice ages have come and gone. Even now the tree species in forest are slowly moving north returning to latitudes they were in before the last ice age. The point I'm trying to make is that the world isn't in some magically balance. It's a dynamic system formed by the greedy drive of each individual trying to survive and reproduce. Any species will overexploit a resource until the resource is depleted or some other force like predators drives the species back down.
Sorry if this comes as too preachy, but this is my area of expertise. |
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MangyKid
- FB Fan -
170 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 18:06:12
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| Hey, I thought this was about UFOs. I guess our big evolved brains can't remember that. |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 18:08:38
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| If you'll actually read the topics above you might realize that they are indirectly related to UFO's and aliens. How long can you go on about crop circles and eerie lights in the sky? |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 22:00:32
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I hear ya Darwin..shit happens in the natural world, but generally speaking, things tend to balance out, except with humans in the equation..heh..
I watched this show on the theory of evolution/natural selection..luckily it wasn't Christian-centered, but it tried to prove that there is a 'directive' power at hand..
They used the flagellen (sp?) micro-organism as an example. Apparently these critters have a motor, drive-shaft and propellor...and these 'directitions' state that this couldn't have happened spontaniously, nor could it have basically 'built' itself..that there must have been some 'greater power' at work, directing the work.
What they didn't address, which was strikingly obvious to me. Perhaps i'm ignorant, but couldn't this organism 'evolved'?
Say, it was just a little guy with a little tail..and through time the tail got more and more complicated?
Of course, it didn't appear spontaniously..that's mutation, not evolution or natural selection, as i understand it.
The most hilarious statement of the show was that this 'discovery' would allow scientists to move on, and provided a great tool for them...hahahahah..yeah right.. Soon everything will be the 'work of god'. |
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 22:21:02
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"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God "for proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing." But says man, "The Babel fish it a dead give away, isn't it? It's so mind-bogglingly complex it couldn't possibly have evolved by chance; it proves that You exist and so therefore, by Your own argument, You don't." "Oh dear," says God "I hadn't thought of that" and disappears in a puff of logic.
Paraphrased from memory from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, but you get the idea.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 23:39:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave Noisy
I hear ya Darwin..shit happens in the natural world, but generally speaking, things tend to balance out, except with humans in the equation..heh..
I watched this show on the theory of evolution/natural selection..luckily it wasn't Christian-centered, but it tried to prove that there is a 'directive' power at hand..
They used the flagellen (sp?) micro-organism as an example. Apparently these critters have a motor, drive-shaft and propellor...and these 'directitions' state that this couldn't have happened spontaniously, nor could it have basically 'built' itself..that there must have been some 'greater power' at work, directing the work.
I believe that is a Christian-centered argument. To hide their agendas they are no longer using the term creation science and now call it Intelligent Design. I don't really know much about that example, but here is a link that discusses it and similar examples:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/behe.html
The argument that some mechanism is too complex to have evolved goes back to Paley's watchmaker argument, which in my opinion was destroyed by Richard Dawkins's Blind Watchmaker. |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 23:52:16
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Personally, I believe that there is a "creator" and for years, mainly because of the fact that I was brought up Baptist, I was taught that it was sinful for me to believe that this creator was any different from whatever version the Baptists had thought up after decades of existence. It's only been in the past few years that I've been able to form my own opinions about "God" and not feel guilty about it. For that reason, I'm pretty against denominational religions right now.
I did hear a "creation scientist" speak one time, and it was pretty sad...their main objective is to convince you that evolutionary scientists are stupid, while in my opinion a GOOD scientist presents all sides of the issue as theories, not fact, and doesn't try to shove their theories in your face. (Although I'll freely admit there are some non-Christian scientists who do this too.) |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 23:58:06
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this thread reminds me of a sci-fi novel i once read.the story was more or less this:humans discover space travel and finally encounter a galactic empire the existence of which completely ignored until now.strangely the americans that are the first to find out recieve a message that says they are not the first earthlings to make contact.the pentagon panics and tries to discover who was the first to contact the aliens(russia,cina)and what his intentions were,since noone wants communist aliens around.after a while the whole earth finds out that the first ambassadors of the planet were a virus and a flower seed brought to the empire by the space "winds".these unusual space travellers asked the galactic empire to help them defend their species from the human stupidity and cruelty.viruses are almost completely extinct and plants have no space to grow due to human activity.the galactic council agrees and their first message to earth is an ultimatum that demands respect from humans for all lifeforms,penalty their complete destruction.
i really liked this one,because i think that if aliens ever made it to earth they wouldn't make much difference between us and other life forms.sure humans are intelligent,they have a complex society and they have technology,but why are they more interesting than ants,or bacteria?for an extraterestrial all earth lifeforms are equally alien thus interesting under a scientific point of view.it's our human arrogance that puts us a step over the rest of the planet and not our superiority.
PS:the goal of evolution is the survival of the species.intelligence is a collateral effect of evolution and just another option in the fight for survival.if the number of individuals is a measure of the success of a species , insects are the most successful,and more than one scientists believe that they will dominate the planet after the humans will be gone.
 join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.munchienandalusia.too.it
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realmeanmotorscutor
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1764 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2003 : 23:58:47
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I hear ya on the guilt bit there glacial. Having gone to a Catholic school my whole life I feel guilty whenever I doubt that Jesus was the messiah. He could have been but I just don't know and every time I think that I'm scared and feel guilty. Brainwashing is why I'm against exposure to any particular religion at a young age. When I have a kid I'm going to take them to a different church/meeting/anything-else-they-can be-called each week so that they're exposed to many different beliefs. I'll let them decide.
"I joined the Cult of Popeye / The CoF required my good eye" |
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darwin
>> Denizen of the Citizens Band <<
USA
5454 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2003 : 00:10:32
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quote:
Originally posted by mun chien andalusia
PS:the goal of evolution is the survival of the species.
Ugh. No, it isn't. "Survival of the species" and "mother nature" are two terms that should be burned at the stake. They lead to too mcuh confusion. "Survival of the fittest" is another bad one, because it conjures up the idea that only the strong or fast survive. Sometimes it's the sneaky or deceitful ones that reproduce the best. Also, it's not enough to survive if one doesn't reproduce.
quote:
intelligence is a collateral effect of evolution and just another option in the fight for survival.
I agree with that. |
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glacial906
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1738 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2003 : 00:19:04
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| In quick response to munchienandalusia's post (I'm going to bed soon) I would say that intelligence is a common factor throughout life all over the universe. If they were ANYTHING like us, and we were their "peers" then they probably would study us most intensively first. I would assume that if humans were to go to extra-solar planets, and we were to meet up with other life-forms, then we would definitely study the ones closest to us first...hence I personally can't imagine aliens studying ants or bacteria with more zeal than they would us. Yeah, we are an arrogant species, but why does everyone assume that aliens would be flawless? |
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2003 : 00:42:38
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quote:
Originally posted by glacial906
In quick response to munchienandalusia's post (I'm going to bed soon) I would say that intelligence is a common factor throughout life all over the universe. If they were ANYTHING like us, and we were their "peers" then they probably would study us most intensively first. I would assume that if humans were to go to extra-solar planets, and we were to meet up with other life-forms, then we would definitely study the ones closest to us first...hence I personally can't imagine aliens studying ants or bacteria with more zeal than they would us. Yeah, we are an arrogant species, but why does everyone assume that aliens would be flawless?
i don't agree.what do we know about alien intelligence?it may not even exist and if it did most probably would be something completely different from our concepts.if aliens exist they will be nothing like us.to make an example,would you consider ants intelligent?under what criteria would you do so?the difference stands all in what WE consider intelligent and the chances are that aliens would start from a completely different point of view.
i believe that all these discussions start from thinking of aliens as humanoids or human-like thinking,a probability far too small to be considered.our ethics,our intelligence and our technology may not be that important to them.we may just look like a bizzare lifeform to them not much different of what termite colonies look to us.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.munchienandalusia.too.it
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mun chien andalusia
= Quote Accumulator =
Italy
2139 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2003 : 00:49:40
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quote:
Originally posted by darwin
[quote]Originally posted by mun chien andalusia
PS:the goal of evolution is the survival of the species.
Ugh. No, it isn't. "Survival of the species" and "mother nature" are two terms that should be burned at the stake. They lead to too mcuh confusion. "Survival of the fittest" is another bad one, because it conjures up the idea that only the strong or fast survive. Sometimes it's the sneaky or deceitful ones that reproduce the best. Also, it's not enough to survive if one doesn't reproduce.
i didn't talk about "mother nature" or some "superior" form of evolution.ethics has nothing to do with survival.sneaky or deceitful habits are as good as strength and velocity and all point into reproducing.survival of the fittest is a good description though,cause fittest could mean anything:more intelligent,fast,sneaky,coloured or whatever it takes to stay alive thus reproduce.
join the cult of errol\and you can have a beer\without having to quit smoking
www.munchienandalusia.too.it
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