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Zsolt G.
- FB Fan -
117 Posts |
 Posted - 10/24/2002 : 23:14:08
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Okay, I'm not sure at what point in music history an "encore" became obligatory for a performing artist, but it's time this shit came to an end.
Tonight's FB show in Chicago is a good example.
The band finishes its normal set and walks off, saying goodbye, bowing, blowing kisses, etc. Fine. Now, anybody who has been to a concert knows that if they leave the amps on and don't start the house music the band will return to the stage. I don't care how little the crowd applauds, those SOBs are coming back. In fact, if you've ever seen a set list, they actually list songs that will be played during the encore. Pretty fucking presumptuous, I would say. I mean, this is SO not genuine. An encore is supposed to be about an audience that is so enthralled by a performer, that unless they come out again, the fans will burn the place to the fucking ground.
So of course Frank and the boys come out and do another couple tunes, and excuse themselves again. This is where it gets interesting though. The house music comes on, but the audience stays and keeps clapping. After five minutes, some dick from the Onion comes on and tells us the show is over. I mean, Christ, why do we even bother?
The pseudopolitical band The (International) Noise Conspiracy used to have a "no encores" gimmick, which I think is very admirable. However, they claim that they have since had to change this policy, because they claim that if you don't do an encore in Germany, the fans will literally trash the merchandise table and break the records to pieces. So I guess it's the damn Krauts that are to blame.
In ending, I think taking a break is fine...though we start to veer into "jam band" territory here, however making it seem like a spontaneous encore is a joke. Um...oh, the show was good otherwise. |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 00:19:02
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I like it when a band does 3 encores.... The Cure maybe lazy bastards but they are pretty good with encores. In fact I shouldn't really say bad things about The cure as they are my second fave band to FB / & C / Pixies.
But its shit when the lights come on, it does make you want to get on stage and verbally / physically abuse a roadie. |
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johndietzel
= Cult of Ray =
Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
464 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 00:41:37
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There were probably logistical reasons for the apparently "canned" encore you saw, but I think you have chosen the wrong performer to rip on. My experience with Frank is that he is the closest to genuinely "feeling" the encore and length of the 1st set, and going by that. The guys don't even have a set list.
And from reading on and listening to tapes of the Catholics' shows, it seems quite clear that the length varies vastly, I hope at least somewhat dependent on the audience reception and general "vibe" for the night.
The usual show with any encores runs around 100 minutes in my experience. But at the last show I attended they went from around 10:40 till 1 am. The encores were long, well deserved, and rousingly demanded by the audience.
Maybe it was just not Frank's night or maybe it was a bad night for you, but at least pick on someone who deserves it. Like a band that even has a setlist to go from, for starters.
I do happen to agree with you generally that the notion of the encore has changed over time. Nowadays it is basically just an intermission between a long set and a short one. That sucks.
"Plain n' simp--the system's a pimp, but I refuse to be a ho."
Chuck D |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 00:50:01
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dietz, are you sure they don't have setlists? i find that difficult to believe.. so much of the time they'll just jump from one song to the next with literally no space between..
not to say Frank doesn't improvise or do whatever the hell he feels like at the time (encores included), but i'd put my money on them having a set list.
zsolt - any more details from the show you can give us? i mean, i agree with the encore thing and all. but what about the show??!! details baby!
stuart - that physically / violently abuse a roadie comment killed me. too funny.. :) (just don't do that with Frank's band because they are the roadies)..
Floop |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 00:54:17
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I hear that sometimes Frank plays for a good 2 and a half hours.... I'd love to be at one of those shows where he just refuses to leave the stage. Personally every time Ive seen Frank he's done great encores, I couldn't fault him at all with his live set.... in fact two of the three shows that Ive seen of Frank Black have been my favourite shows Ive seen.
Its when you get bands like Black Sabbath and Hives that headline and then only play for 45 minutes with a one song encore.... thats when you have a good reason to gripe. |
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sloe joe
- FB Fan -
United Kingdom
70 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 03:11:38
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My only beef with encores is the length you have to wait between the show and encore. I wish it was longer! In my experience there's never enough time to get to the bar and get served, which is the only *real* reason I can see for splitting up a show ;)
joe |
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mdisanto
* Dog in the Sand *
USA
1140 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 03:22:01
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well wilco for example at the concert last week played for about an hour and 45 mins, which is a respectable length. They left the stage and the crowd went nuts clapping and the whole bit. They came back and played 2 covers and left. Noone wanted them to end really so we kept clapping louder than the first time i'd say. They came back and played like 6 or 7 more songs. Totaling at about 2 and a half hours. Now, i'd probably prefer if they just stayed on the whole time and played all those songs with no breaks, especially since the first encore seemed inevitable. But i get the feeling that they were having a good enough time and we were into it so much that they came out again and played for a pretty long time. I think thats cool when a band does that becuase you feel like they are having fun. The obligatory encore is lame though as you said, frank didnt do one the first and only time i saw him.
-miked |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 04:28:50
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| I guess the number and length of the encores depend on the reception Frank gets... like earlier on this year a few had to be called short due to people throwing shit (I don't understand why people do that kind of thing.... unless you are watching Extreme.... or Frank Stallone) and people knocking mic stands over.... but I know that if he gets a good reception and the gig is going well then Frank (Black, not Stallone) will give a good encore. |
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Leah
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
314 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 05:15:32
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Can I just say that I would love for once, if an artist started a stage show at around 8 O'clock?
Being an out of towner, means that in order to make the last train I normally miss the *second* encore.
I think they are a good idea tho' since ANYONE who puts as much effort into a live performance as Frank does, is more that entitled after, say 90 minutes or so to take a break.
Shit, I thought he was going to rupture something during 6-60-6!
That was prolly what I liked most about the Garage show. They played a tight set, took a break, came back, played another 20 minutes, took a break, then came back & played for another 20 minutes before calling it a night, Which was great coz it meant I got home okay and didn't have to hustle too much to make it back home...
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zanni67
= Bio Elf =
643 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 05:42:15
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I was able to witness two concerts inches from Dave P, and at least for those two, I can tell you with complete confidence that there was no setlist to speak of. What happened at these shows is that Frank used sign language or a word and sent it 'around the horn' to the other guys, letting them know what would be next. For example, I heard Scott yell "Dirty" to Dave, and saw Dave nod his head and say "Okay" and then choose the appropriate guitar for "Dirty Old Town". Frank also did a monkey like arm/hand gesture to the guys for "Monkey Gone to Heaven", and swimming motions for "The Swimmer". Dave, being on lead, had absolutely nothing to go by, the only thing he had in front of him was his control board, which, funny enough, he actually dropped a lit smoke on and it fell between two of the pedals, nearly disappearing! He bent down, shrugged his shoulders and looked at me and the closest people around as if to say "Shit, where'd it go?!?!". We found it after a couple of seconds, thankfully!
Zan
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 09:25:38
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| Encores are a strange thing...I just went to see Elvis Costello on Monday night and he played three encores - which is usual for him. Some guy behind me kept informing his date (between the second and third encores) "you can tell it's not over because the lights are still out". Okay, thank you Captin Obvious. Anyway, I hope for many happy encores when I see Frank in a few weeks. |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 11:54:14
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zanni, yeah i guess you're right.. i mean, i can't say i've ever seen one either (cuz i'm usually right in front too) but sometimes they just seem to "know".. without any signals or anything.. maybe frank has telepathic capabilities..
yeah, it sucks for Dave here in California because everything is no-smoking.. what's the world come to when you're in a rock band and you can't even smoke on stage? |
Edited by - floop on 10/25/2002 11:57:20 |
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zanni67
= Bio Elf =
643 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 12:21:15
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Oh my, poor Dave. He must have to line his pants with nicorette patches or something! (That line, I have to admit, I stole from my friend Shawnte, who is on here somewhere... I almost peed my pants when he sent that to me in an email once!!) He must make a b-line for the back door after a CA show, that's just gotta suck.
This may be completely and totally unpolitically correct, but I find Dave REALLY hot when he plays and smokes. Ahem...
Zan
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zanni67
= Bio Elf =
643 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 12:42:03
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Oh, and Floop, you are right, they do seem to 'know' sometimes, it is indeed interesting to see this all work out when you are right up front. They must have a general idea before the show, like maybe Frank says "I'm in the mood for this, that, and then..." At the Chicago show even I got tired seeing Dave go from les paul to pedal steel to les paul. Stand up, sit down, stand up again, nope, Frank changed his mind, sit down, put the finger picks back on, etc etc. The poor guy looked exhausted. Plus, he's always glancing in Frank's direction to 'read his mind', especially towards the end of a song. That's got to get rough on your neck with a guitar strapped to you as you are trying to play. The one other nice part at the first Chicago show was when Frank kind of walked over in Dave's area and smiled at him in such a kind way, as if to say, "Hey buddy, you're rockin' tonight, nice job". It was a really kind gesture on Frank's part, and judging by the smile on Dave's face, he very much appreciated it.
Zan |
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johndietzel
= Cult of Ray =
Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
464 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 13:49:46
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quote:
Originally posted by floop
dietz, are you sure they don't have setlists? i find that difficult to believe.. so much of the time they'll just jump from one song to the next with literally no space between..
not to say Frank doesn't improvise or do whatever the hell he feels like at the time (encores included), but i'd put my money on them having a set list.
I am actually going based on reading an interview in which Frank said the Catholics have a finite number of songs they can play together (probably more than 100 now) and they don't do setlists. They just draw from their "pool" and I presume use signals, or Frank just starts off those that have an intro he can play.
"Plain n' simp--the system's a pimp, but I refuse to be a ho."
Chuck D |
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Visiting Sasquatch
= Cult of Ray =
USA
451 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2002 : 14:37:20
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| Yes, I witnessed this myself. For example, Frank decided to play Monkey Gone to Heaven, and signaled this to the Catholics by doing an impression of a monkey, (He bowed his arms and scratched his sides, you know, how monkeys do.) |
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Mike Rutherford
- FB Fan -
USA
171 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2002 : 00:02:04
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| When I saw FB & TC in Louisville last April, there was definitely no set list. I was inches away from the band and on at least a couple of occasions Frank would ask the other guys "you wanna do Black Rider", etc. Sometimes Feldman would be the one that launched into a song first and Frank and the other guys seemed to kind of follow his lead..... |
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2002 : 14:49:53
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yeah, i've seen him do that too.. but that's the thing, only about half the time. and usually later in the set. i get the feeling that maybe they have things sort of planned for at least the first half or so..
becuse sometimes frank won't even look at the other band members and they start in on something..
anyway, i guess i'm taking this a little too far. who cares?
i'm sticking to my telepathy theory.
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zanni67
= Bio Elf =
643 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2002 : 17:16:42
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Floop, I like your telepathy theory! It's got to be the case, especially when Frank wears the shades. 
Zan
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2002 : 20:35:11
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| FB&TC never use setlists...they rehearse a number of songs before/during the tour and pick out of those somewhat randomly. |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2002 : 21:06:42
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Back to the encores, i don't think i like them overall.... Especially when they're 'planned'.
- Dave |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2002 : 23:38:27
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| you don't like encores.... thats strange, why not?? I hate bands that have a preplanned setlist and stick to it for each concert. The Manics, when they used to be good, would publish their setlist in music magazines before they toured, which to me devalued their set somewhat. In my opinion a gig is good when you do not know which song is next, the element of surprise adds to the excitement if you ask me. |
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Itchload
= Cult of Ray =
USA
891 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2002 : 08:31:33
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Yeah, I agree Stuart. It's kind of like putting all the FB cds in a cd changer and hitting random, it adds some excitement to songs that you know by heart/and tracklistings you know by heart. I like making mix tapes for my car, and rearranging some of my favorite FB tunes in a different order, it can make it more exciting.
And all this encore stuff, Frank is the most genuine encore guy around. If the crowd loves him, he'll play 2 or 3 encores, if the crowd is a bunch of drunk bastards, he won't play one. I think it's more of a problem for "bigger" bands, who are obligated to run through a list of their career hits and have obligatory encores because in stadiums you don't have an intimate feel for the crowd, and encores are planned and predictable. |
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