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jo
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
516 Posts |
 Posted - 08/27/2003 : 02:54:27
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has made up a news item, which had it not been so wildly inaccurate, would be funny.
"PIXIES PICKED - a fresh Best Of Collection and an in-concert DVD-video are to be issued by 4ad later this month, along with revamped versions of the band's entire back catalogue on the label. The packages will include fresh sleevenotes and artwork, and the reissue programme will take in Come On Pilgrim, Surfer Rosa, Doolittle, Bossanova, Tromp (sic) Le Monde, The Pixies at the BBC and the 'B' Sides compilation"
its not strictly correct.
1. yes, the Best Of will happen, but next year
2. its more than just an in-concert DVD (why does it bring video into it? could that confuse people?)
3. the catalogue in the UK will not change. The only changes have been in the US, when we got the rights back from Elektra.
4. I'm not aware of there being fresh artwork, bar on the DVD and Best Of which is still a long way off...
so there you go :) (copied and edited slightly from the 4ad forum!)
jo |
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Scarla O
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
947 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2003 : 03:08:35
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Cheers Jo...it's always good to get 'insider' information. |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2003 : 09:04:30
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Best of.... why? I have to admit to being a disliker of best ofs... they always contain the songs that aren't the strongest tunes..... although my tune could change if some unreleased stuff is added. Personally I think they should release another live album which incorporates Trompe songs.
Bacon....... Its not fantastic |
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jo
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
516 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2003 : 09:25:29
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I think its more because DTTP doesn't work well, it hasn't been reissued in the US when 4ad got the rights back, it could do with re-doing... there's some songs on there that could be removed... hey now theres a thread.. DTTP survivor :)
it'd also be timed nicely with the DVD, so new fans (and there's even some who work in the Beggars office who only know 'Where Is My Mind' and 'Tame'- I'm working on them at the mo) actually know the definitive Pixies songs, and then take it from there....
there wont be anything unreleased or rare on there though, its not a cash in either... hopefully most people who have Pixies CD's wont get this, and new fans will pick up on it... there's a few threads about it on the 4ad forum...
http://beggars.bway.net/forum/showthread.php?threadid=8355&perpage=15&pagenumber=1 |
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Dave Noisy
Minister of Chaos
Canada
4496 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2003 : 10:16:05
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Hey..who the hell are those people??
=P |
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El Barto
= Song DB Master =
USA
4020 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2003 : 11:07:25
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Another Pixies best of? I'll tell you why DTTP didn't do too well: it sucked! I mean, come on...Dig For Fire!?! It looks like the tracklisting just slapped all the singles together and threw on some other random tracks to cover up their trail. But seriously, the song selection wasn't too hot. The story inside the booklet was the best feature and gave me a good schooling on the Pixies back when I was a Pixies newbie. I remember being very un-impressed by the live show, but in later listens it was OK. I can see the use of a best of when it comes to newbie fans, but unless you slap on some never-before-released-ever tracks on the end, I'm not up for it. Oh, and jo, perhaps you should go through our "Survivor Winners" threads for all the albums and make sure all the winners appear on the best of, because I think they're pretty much dead-on. Whoever came up with the tracklisting for DTTP should be jailed...come on, no Motorway to Roswell!? That's a crime.
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FRANK BLACK SATAN WORKSHIP BLACK MASS |
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speedy_m
= Frankofile =
Canada
3581 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2003 : 12:29:38
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| What's wrong with Dig For Fire? I love that song. |
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peter radiator
= Cult of Ray =
USA
653 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2003 : 13:52:17
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quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
Another Pixies best of? I'll tell you why DTTP didn't do too well: it sucked! I mean, come on...Dig For Fire!?! It looks like the tracklisting just slapped all the singles together and threw on some other random tracks to cover up their trail.
I can see the use of a best of when it comes to newbie fans, but unless you slap on some never-before-released-ever tracks on the end, I'm not up for it. Oh, and jo, perhaps you should go through our "Survivor Winners" threads for all the albums and make sure all the winners appear on the best of, because I think they're pretty much dead-on. Whoever came up with the tracklisting for DTTP should be jailed...come on, no Motorway to Roswell!? That's a crime.
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FRANK BLACK SATAN WORKSHIP BLACK MASS
Damn, holmes. Why so harsh?
I dunno, I wasn't floored with DTTP, but at the same time, it made about as much sense trackwise as most of the corny 2-disc "essential" anthologies that other labels put out.
The only mistake 4AD made with that one was to bundle the live disc with it. All the diehard fans already owned the studio tracks and bought the thing solely for the live show. Then, they were disappointed with the lack of any significant memorabilia or photos to go along with that concert.
Meanwhile, those who weren't too awfully familiar with the band (but had been convinced they were somehow out of the loop for not owning any of their albums), bought it for the first disc, and then couldn't figure out what the fuss was all about when thy listened to the live show, which was one of the least energetic shows to be preserved in excellent soundboard quality (that I'm personally aware of).
It was a bit of a lose/lose from the start, and Frank and Joey as much as said so in a few interview at the time of its release. but I think that hardly anyone who likes the band enough to frequent this board would EVER be completely satisfied by ANY tracklisting 4AD could come up with for a comprehensive anthology.
If that's the case, it's best to remain relatively unconcerned with how they repackage the previously released material, and spend our spare time burning homemade "best-ofs" to shove off on our friends and the unconverted.
As far as throwing us diehards a bone by tacking on a few rarities... I'm so tired of that old angle that I'll probably fall for it again hook, line and sinker!
Still, with Frank and the rest of the gang repeatedly saying that there's not much left of substance to release, they're either toying with the fans (which is highly unlikely considering what they stand to gain from such a stash), or admitting that unlike a lot of groups which tracked tons of shit and then weeded through it, they took the approach of only putting on tape what they thought they would probably use.
Are there crappy ambient-miked rehearsal jams and run-throughs? Of course. Are there aborted studio-tracked fragments of tunes? Probably. Are there rough mixes with alternate vocal tracks and over-the-top electronic tomfoolery that was chuckled over and then discarded? I wouldn't be surprised.
However, at a certain point this stuff becomes – as Lou Reed described when discussing the Velvet Underground's posthumous Another View compilation – "outtakes of outtakes". Stuff that the band themselves don't even consider worth sharing with people.
That's the sort of stuff that only makes sense as a true unsanctioned bootleg, not an official release. Obsessed fans don't come off looking quite as much like graverobbers as record labels do in such instances.
Some ideas for stuff for 4AD to prepare and/or license that would make sense as official releases? A legitimate, legal EP of the famous 1-sided promo vinyl from 1989. Or perhaps a sonically-restored compilation of the band's various live TV appearances on MTV's 120 minutes, The Dennis Miller Show, Night Music and Letterman, not to mention the PRICELESS segment on BBC-TV's "Lonely Charts Club" circa the Doolittle LP.
Unfortunately, those clips have legal quagmire written all over them, and will likely not surface in such a form.
I'll go ahead and assume that most of us will groan at the setlist and packaging for whatever Best Of the folks in England come up with. But that doesn't mean they're doing a terrible job. These releases serve a purpose and fill a need, and as such, they're probably just fine.
~ Peter (fully preparing to get bashed for this one) Radiator
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11687 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2003 : 14:25:51
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Well, if we were to base such choices on Survivor, taking, say, the top 5 per album without b-sides or anything, the CD might look like this (I put a little thought into track ordering, but not it was thrown together pretty quickly):
1. Debaser
2. Velouria
3. Ana
4. Bird Dream of the Olympus Mons
5. Subbacultacha
6. Mr. Grieves
7. Allison
8. The Happening
9. Where Is My Mind?
10. Gouge Away
11. Alec Eiffel
12. Bone Machine
13. All Over The World
14. Break My Body
15. Wave of Mutilation
16. Broken Face
17. River Euphrates
18. Trompe Le Monde
19. Hey
20. Motorway to Roswell
For me personally, I don't know if I could bear not having Tame, There Goes My Gun, and Monkey Gone To Heaven on there (the latter if only because it's one of their more definitive songs), but actually as much as I remember cringing at those Survivors, it's not a horrible list. But Mr. Radiator is probably correct. I'd love to see the Trompe Tapes. Malta, I'm looking in your direction. Maybe we should do a Survivor of these top 5's just to liven things up around here... |
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jo
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
516 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2003 : 01:07:00
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Tame would have to be on there, as would Monkey Gone To Heaven - Dig for Fire does seem to be unpopular all round though! but the two main tracks for the Pixies of the last however long it has been since DTTP are 'Tame' (cause of the Smirnoff commercial - we've played it in the office and people not realising who they are have been "oooho WHO is this?") and 'Where Is My Mind' (cause of its inclusion in that film that I can't remember - was it the Fight Club? I've not seen it anyway, but I know there was a thread about it on here!)
there's already been two draft tracklistings, the first has been submitted to management, but some alterations were made... the second one still has that odd feel... its like when you hear DTTP for the first time and go "nooooo these songs don't work in this order!!!!" - I think its gonna be chronological...
to clarify again though (on reading some of what Peter Radiator said), there will be no rare tracks on the new Best Of - we don't want people to buy it again if they already have DTTP for the sake of it being a Pixies album - the only new thing will be artwork for this release.
we're talking an album with album and singles and b-sides and the usual. |
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jo
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
516 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2003 : 02:24:23
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| oh I also wanted to add, that I'm fairly sure only the US kept the 2CD set with live tracks (not 4ad - Elektra) - everywhere else in the world got the single CD edition, once initial limited formats had sold out... just a though that occurred while I was driving into work :) |
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Blackolyte
- FB Fan -
USA
109 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2003 : 02:53:01
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Great info Jo! Thanks!
"...she shakes and she moves me or something / she's like jellyroll like sculpture.." |
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benji
> Teenager of the Year <
New Zealand
3426 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2003 : 03:43:45
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what about another 4 x 10" set?
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jo
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
516 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2003 : 05:11:01
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| sorry, no chance :) |
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benji
> Teenager of the Year <
New Zealand
3426 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2003 : 15:32:50
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but that was soo cool.
speaking of rarities - the i'm amazed/broken face demos on the golden ticket and vinyl sets - were they the only tracks from that "session" or are there more? |
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jo
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
516 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2003 : 00:56:58
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| I'm not sure, I'll try find out - but bear in mind, this Best Of, while still being pretty big, wont be at the level DTTP was at - it'll be out there, and it'll be big, but there'll be no hidden extras... but then the DVD will probably make up for Best Of's disappointments... |
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benji
> Teenager of the Year <
New Zealand
3426 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2003 : 04:40:35
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i wasn't expecting more of these to turn up on the new best of - was merely curious.
from the sound of the 2 songs released, i would guess that there are definitely more.
but then a cd of these could never be released - they are not up to "official release" standards....
bootleg cd yes though.....
maybe u could sneak a copy of them jo and pass it round - no-one would ever know it was you. |
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DruggedBunny
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
395 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2003 : 05:03:59
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Jo, please arrange for 4AD to pimp the living shit out of Pixies live/rare stuff! Pimping is only bad if it's stuff we've already got... :)
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jo
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
516 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2003 : 07:47:47
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| I don't think there'll be much left after the DVD... the only thing we can all think of is the Brixton show.... if anyone can suggest something we should have, that we'd probably have the rights to that we've missed, do say though :) |
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Visiting Sasquatch
= Cult of Ray =
USA
451 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2003 : 15:24:29
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| Can you get TV show appearances? Like David Letterman, and I remember u said MTV was expensive, but I'm sure there were others they appeared on. That would be a great DVD-extra. |
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Sheamus
= Cult of Ray =
Australia
345 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2003 : 00:04:50
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| The Lost Trompe Le Monde Tapes! Surely they're sitting around in a 4AD vault somewhere? You could package them with the Doolittle Demos and/or perhaps a good live concert, and have the band write some stuff about the situation surrounding the recordings. |
Edited by - Sheamus on 08/30/2003 00:07:13 |
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Omer
= Cult of Ray =
275 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2003 : 07:06:14
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| I seriously don't understand what's the point in yet another Pixies compilation. Just re releasing Death to the Pixies as a single CD would seem the obvious solution. I mean, sure, there are LOTS of great songs missing, but as Peter Radiator said, it's unlikely any compilation would be satisfactroy. |
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DruggedBunny
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
395 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2003 : 06:50:49
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How about arranging with Frank and Gary Smith for Smith's private "Sing for Your Supper" session to be released? This was Charles, pre-BF/FB doing something like 18 or 19 songs on an acoustic in Gary Smith's living room. Gary Smith said that he played it in the car at the time with some music journalists onboard and they declared it the most powerful thing they'd ever heard; Kristin Hersh also said in an interview she was a little disappointed by the full-band versions of the Pilgrim songs after hearing him playing them on his own... which says something about how cool they must have sounded!
[EDIT]
A-ha... from the 4AD Pixies site (Gary Smith's words):
"When the show was over, I sleazed back to the dressing room and sheepishly begged the Pixies to go into the studio with me. After a few phone calls and a meeting over beer, Charles Thompson (still not Black Francis) came to my apartment to parade me through the songs - with a fanfare like Mardi Gras - in preparation for recording at Fort Apache. He had this secret weapon, apparent even on an acoustic guitar, which made the verses quiet and the choruses explosive. That essential logic held the songs together, no matter how bizarre, depraved or nonsensical. Wherever the songs went they kept me along like a co-conspirator or an unwitting stooge at the scene of a sordid crime. I put all this on tape as part of my sing-for-your-supper series while the pasta was cooking in the kitchen. The next week I played it for an NME journalist who was touring America with Throwing Muses and I think it made a big impression. "
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Edited by - DruggedBunny on 09/01/2003 07:05:40 |
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jo
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
516 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2003 : 07:20:27
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I think if that was ever to get a release, it wouldn't be on 4ad... I don't think 4ad has the rights...
but yeah, hopefully one day it'll see the light of day... I'd love to hear those.... |
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Stuart
- The Clopser -
China
2291 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2003 : 08:07:02
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Ive already mentionned that a better Pixies live album should be released, but maybe a boxed set of the demo's / sessions and rarities.... thats what the fans would want, not some shitty best of that the majority of us don't give a toss about. Fairplay, maybe it's good for the new fans, however Pixies albums are very low price so new fans might just as well buy the albums.
It's great though that we have you (Jo) and Sarah Spinart to give us all this info....
Bacon....... Its not fantastic |
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jo
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
516 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2003 : 08:15:15
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the problem is though, that 4ad doesn't own a lot of the early stuff - demos and sessions
so chances are if something like that was to happen, it would be licensed to FB's current labels... annoying, but there y'go
as far as 4ad goes, the only option at the mo is what the company owns... the Best Of is a part of the DVD campaign, as in both will be out at the same time, and DTTP will no longer be available... I would love to see a finished tracklisting (there's been two versions so far), but there were some omissions on DTTP that should have been there, and there should have been some tracks that were left off... hopefully this will be the definitive Best Of and then there wont be many (or any) more... |
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Sheamus
= Cult of Ray =
Australia
345 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2003 : 06:18:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Stuart
Ive already mentionned that a better Pixies live album should be released, but maybe a boxed set of the demo's / sessions and rarities.... thats what the fans would want, not some shitty best of that the majority of us don't give a toss about. Fairplay, maybe it's good for the new fans, however Pixies albums are very low price so new fans might just as well buy the albums.
I think the value of a "Best of" CD shouldn't be under rated. I am amoung many Pixies fans to have been introduced to the band via "Death to the Pixies". I happened to stumble across it in my local library years ago while I was still in high school, having only previously heard "Gigantic".
I loved it, soon bought it and played it relentlessly for months. I thought it was a brilliant CD to be introduced to the band by. Of course now, years down the track, I know that it isn't a totally complete representation of the band's sound (but then that isn't really needed in the end, people who like the band enough will buy all the albums anyway), but it was good enough to make me fall in love with the Pixies, and it did show a fairly broad spectrum of the band's sound for what it was. Years later, they are my favourite band, I own every CD they've officially released, also have a lot of Frank Black and Breeders stuff and plenty of bootlegs as well.
This was all thanks to me loving Death to the Pixies and it inspiring me to further check out the band.
Of course die hard fans aren't going to care that much about a Best Of - They've heard all the songs before, and each Pixies fan has their own unique perspective on what constitues as their greatest songs. They're a great idea though for casual fans/people who don't know much about them. That said, I'll probably be buying the new Best Of as well anyway, for completion's sake and also to play to friends/take to parties etc. |
Edited by - Sheamus on 09/02/2003 06:29:11 |
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jo
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
516 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2003 : 06:43:10
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you know what I dislike the most about Death To the Pixies? its the way I'm listening to one track, then the next one starts, and I look at the stereo, cause maybe someone put the CD on random, cause it sounds wrong played after such and such a song.
thats my own personal opinion there, btw. I just hope whatever tracks are on the new Best Of, there's less of that. I had a dream of a tracklisting last night that started with Debaser and got better... course, I can't remember it this morning. Maybe it was just Doolittle :) |
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Sheamus
= Cult of Ray =
Australia
345 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2003 : 08:42:54
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Haha.
I guess trick lies in finding a group of songs that all go well with each other, while abiding to folling rules:
a) Has to feature all the popular songs such as Where is My Mind?, Debaser, Here Comes Your Man, Monkey Gone to Heaven, Gigantic, Velouria, Tame etc
b) Create a coherent track listing that not only sticks together well and sounds good with logical progressions, but also features a diverse range of songs from all the albums, in addition to the aformentioned "hits", that gives an overall wide taste of the broad range of sounds the band created throughout their time together.
c) Not make the CD too overwhelming for new listeners by including too many tracks.
d) To a lesser extent include "fan favourites" such as Motorway to Roswell, River Euphrates, Gouge Away etc.
Personally, when creating Pixies mix tapes or CDs for friends who don't know the band, I get constantly frustrated trying to chose a cohesive tracklisting. I want to include certain tracks, but they never seem to go well with other tracks I also want to include. Normally I have to leave out stuff i really love and wanted on there simply because it doesn't fit with what I already have. It always varies too, depending on the person I'm giving it too. "Oh, Jon probably won't like "Broken Face" that much, so I won't put that on his. Amy on the other hand would totally dig that song, so I'll include it on hers."
Regarding Death to the Pixies, I think some of the transitions work really well, while others don't. I love Cecilia Ann - Planet of Sound, but don't think Dig for Fire - Caribou works well at all.
Anyway, good luck, it's a very tough job! Perhaps there is a totally stunning, holy grail Pixies tracklisting that will miraculously abide by the above rules and please everybody! I suggest you get sleeping and see if you can dream it up again. Just in case it wasn't actually just Doolittle :) |
Edited by - Sheamus on 09/02/2003 08:48:45 |
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