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Little Black Francis
> Teenager of the Year <
3648 Posts |
 Posted - 08/10/2003 : 03:23:02
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This is a long and complicated story so I am going to simplify it as much as possible.
I have this ex-girlfriend from TX, who was brought up in a fairly affluent family, she's mid 20's like me and single with a fairly decent job and in grad school for business. I called her tonight to see how she was doing and she went the fuck off on me (she was drunk but I've heard all of this many times).
One of her most adamant claims is that women should be completely taken care of by their husbands, be able to stay home and raise the kids, and not have to work or worry about having a job or anything. And all guys are lazy peices of shit if they can't do this.
Now I am not a quick-witted person so I had little of a responce, but it really agitated me, and I felt that there is something inherently wrong in that argument, although you can't change the way someone feels. It seems so old fashioned or something. Don't get me wrong, I would love to be in a position in my life where I could provide that for my lover if she wanted that, but I just don't think like that. I'm fuckin' broke as shit, I live with my parents, I work a bottom end job and just get by. I don't want to live like this forever and I don't plan on it, but what the fuck is love exactly? It seems like to her it's all about having this and that and taking and taking. I cannot be loved because I am at a shitty place in my life? I mean this girl is so different than me I question why I ever was attracted to her in the first place, and yeah she dumped me... long story. Should I feel guilty or wrong for giving my love to someone I cannot support at this moment and may never be able to? Maybe I could? Right now I'm not doing what I want, I'm not fulfilling my potential, but I AM moving forwards, so what the fuck?
But what do some of the women here think? Should a woman expect to be completely taken care of? Why shouldn't men? I just don't base my relationships (hypothetical ones of course) on economics. I'm just looking for some opinions and some further discussion on the scattered issues I think I presented.
I'll appreciate any sincere responce, becuase I can't wipe this scowl off my face right now. Piss me off more, make me feel better, just tell me what you think.
Thanks. Peace out.
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jimmy
= Cult of Ray =
USA
876 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2003 : 04:51:20
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She's half right. A couple should wait until they can afford for the woman to stay at home before they have a kid.
But a woman shouldn't expect to be taken care of or think that she won't have to work. She should work and be prepared to take care of the guy in case he has to take some time off.
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ramona
"FB Quote Mistress"
USA
3988 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2003 : 06:29:39
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Jimmy have you ever heard the expression "don't should on me"? Boy, puh-leeze.
LBF, I think it depends on the couple - but it seems pretty archaic to me for anyone (man or woman!) to expect to be supported by someone else the way things are today. I would be perfectly thrilled to sit home all day eating bon-bon's while someone else made the dough and bought the bon-bon's BUUUUT I just don't see that in the cards. I think your ex obviously has some other stuff going on and maybe she is just lazy and doesn't feel like putting on the work hat. I have days like that, for sure - but otherwise, she sounds rather unreasonable.
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mereubu
= FB QuizMistress =
USA
2677 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2003 : 09:58:22
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Hey now! I'm home all day but there is no bon-bon eating, um, more than once or twice a day. Tops. No seriously, I never planned on being at home with a kid, it just kinda happened that way. We've made a conscious decision to be poor so that we can give her this time, but I don't think that either of us looks at it as some demand I've made, i.e. "You will support me and take care of me and the kid blahblahblah." (Besides, in my experience, it's the person who stays home who ends up taking care of everybody but themselves 24/7, so anyone who thought that they were getting some sort of cushy stay-at-home gig would be sorely disappointed.) Anyway, I would never have gone into a relationship expecting to be financially supported. I mean, if that's something that you both want then it's something that you work towards, but I've never known anyone who just thought, "Hey, now I'm married. Good-bye, workforce!" Seems pretty unrealistic to me.
I can't come up with some neat little definition of love, but it sounds to me like she doesn't have a clue. As Mister Rogers was wont to say, love is accepting someone "just the way they are" and not expecting some sort of major change in a person. |
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paintmeister
= Cult of Ray =
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2003 : 10:34:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Little Black Francis
but what the fuck is love exactly? It seems like to her it's all about having this and that and taking and taking.
I can tell you that this is NOT what love is.
It is very difficult to sustain a relationship when one person is not willing to make sacrifices to please the other. It's a matter of wanting, not having, to do something to please each other.
Finances can also play a big role in a relationship, too, but it should not be the number one importance in a relationship.
It may not help any but that's my humble opinion.
Just call me Dr. Dave (sorry, no tongue-in-cheek Smilie icon)
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floop
= Wannabe Volunteer =
Mexico
15297 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2003 : 11:00:00
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sorry you're going through rough times (break up, finances, whatever). it sucks. but it will get better. its sounds like you've got things in perspective, and headed in a positive direction.
frankly, this girl doesn't sound like she was worth it. i mean, how interesting can someone be who doesn't want to do anything in life? (not to rip on your ex-girlfriend.. but i would find that extremely lame too)
then again, if she is REALLY cute and has a southern accent, i can see why you fell for her.
(i have a thing for girls with southern accents lately)
either way, there are plenty of other girls out there. now you just need a place to take them after a date (other than parents house) and you'll be on your way. |
Edited by - floop on 08/10/2003 11:22:37 |
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Cult_Of_Frank
= Black Noise Maker =
Canada
11690 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2003 : 11:09:24
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Right on the mark, Dave. If you're BOTH in love than the question of sacrifice becomes moot, because it's something you BOTH want to do for each other. Staying at home all day might not be so bad without kids, but it's a full time job when you have them. Likewise, working to provide for three people (yourself plus wife and one child) is certainly not a trivial matter and generally means that you are the last person to actually see any of the money you earn. Both jobs are sacrifices, but it doesn't sound as though she wants to do it for any other reason than herself, and so she would make a terrible wife and probably an awful mother. Being a parent/lover is all about wanting to do things for others, whether a spouse or a child, maybe because it makes you feel good to see them happy, or maybe for some other quasi-selfish reason, but the fact is that it makes you happy to see them happy. It sounds like she'd be happy for you to make HER happy.
I'm sorry to hear about the break-up, but I think that you'll find it's the best thing that could've happened to you - you don't even have to feel bad about dumping her %@$%&@$%, which you probably should've anyway. |
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Little Black Francis
> Teenager of the Year <
3648 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2003 : 13:12:20
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We broke up a few months ago, so the sting and bitterness has left in the broken heart department.
It's just her attitude that drives me insane. And this huge diatribe she went off on basically calling me a nowhere, nothing, fuck-up because I haven't sky-rocketed from my parent's basement to the CEO of some gigantic bloodsucking company.
I think she is lazy and selfish and has no idea what love is and I can't do anything to help her there.
I'm not looking to have kids anytime soon either by the way. And I definitely would not want to bring a child into my life right now either. I feel sorry for my 4 cats as it is. If I ever do have a kid, which I want to for lots of reasons, one being I was adopted and have never met anyone genetically related to me, another I just think I would be a good father, because giving and loving to someone makes me happy, I would want to be financially prepared.
Mere... I know you work hard, and I think this girl would too, but the accepting the fact you're poor to give your child the most attention and love, which I greatly respect and admire, would not fly. She has to have a Lexus and go shopping everyday, get waxed and buy makeup. Doesn't sound like you, or someone I would like.
But I AM looking for love, and I don't care if she's got nothing or got it all, it's just the way she handles me and herself that attracts me to a woman, and provides a good environment for love to grow.
As far as definitions of love, the Road Less Travelled I think has the closest thing I ever seen of it, I'll try to explain it but I will fail. It's something like caring about someone's spiritual growth or something.
And yes Floop, her accent is insane. That and she's so completely different than me.
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blackpurse
= Cult of Ray =
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2003 : 05:23:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Little Black Francis
One of her most adamant claims is that women should be completely taken care of by their husbands, be able to stay home and raise the kids, and not have to work or worry about having a job or anything. And all guys are lazy peices of shit if they can't do this.
It seems like to her it's all about having this and that and taking and taking. I cannot be loved because I am at a shitty place in my life? I mean this girl is so different than me I question why I ever was attracted to her in the first place, and yeah she dumped me... long story. Should I feel guilty or wrong for giving my love to someone I cannot support at this moment and may never be able to? Maybe I could? Right now I'm not doing what I want, I'm not fulfilling my potential, but I AM moving forwards, so what the fuck?
But what do some of the women here think? Should a woman expect to be completely taken care of?
My mother (b. 1920) was raised in an age/time/place where a woman pretty much was "taken care of" once she was married. Although she held a degreee in nursing, (and in the 40's that meant everything from assisting with surgery to changing bedpans) afer she was married, she never learned to drive a car, never learned to do taxes or balance a checkbook, etc. When my dad dropped dead of a heart attack when she was 46, here she was, with a teenage daughter, an adolescent son, and my six-year-old pain in the ass to deal with. She was fucked. Fortunately, she was the "survivor" type and totally turned her life around, learned how to take care of herself (actually, being a "depression mom" always deep down inside knew) and raised me to never HAVE to rely on anybody, lest I get fucked in the same way.
I tell you this story because your well-to-do-girlfriend seems extremely pampered, hasn't got a clue, etc. From what you've told us here, I suspect you're never going to be able to "support" her because she doesnt' want a husband, she wants a sugar daddy. My opinion, this is going to sound harsh, but based on how I was raised, she sounds like a stupid ass. Her ambition is to be somebody's trophy wife. Now being a trophy wife has its advantages, (life of lusury, etc., becoming one of those "ladies who lunch") but the huge disadvantage is that you're basically SOLD -- and if she falls into a relationship with the guy who bought her and he turns out to be an abusive ass, well, frankly, she's stuck there. Are you looking for a trophy wife? If not, this isn't the girl for you. If so, I suggest getting a degree in finance, putting on the suit, getting an MBS, kissing lots of ass, because a trophy wife is going to require that you be pulling down 100K minimum.
Don't feel guilty for loving her, or "leading her on" becasue YOU are the one who's going to be in the lurch when a higher bidder comes into her life. OK, maybe she's gorgeous, and maybe she's the best fuck you ever had. But the tone of your post suggests you're not looking for just a great fuck. My advice: find somebody who shares your value system (somebody whose goals are something you actually respect!) who is also a great fuck. You're only in your mid-20's, you've got time. Me and 'sabre didn't find each other till we were 30. I just went to my nephew's wedding (and he just turned 30). And he spent a good portion of his 20s panicking because all his friends were paired off and he went through "What's Wrong With Me" syndrome. Nothing's wrong with you. Figure out YOUR values, YOUR goals, (like they tell us women all the time) do it for YOU -- the right person will come along that shares YOUR goals.
"Sacred cows make the best burgers!"
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blackpurse
= Cult of Ray =
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2003 : 05:29:07
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quote:
Originally posted by jimmy
She's half right. A couple should wait until they can afford for the woman to stay at home before they have a kid.
But a woman shouldn't expect to be taken care of or think that she won't have to work. She should work and be prepared to take care of the guy in case he has to take some time off.
I'm tempted to not even reply to this. I work full time, I'm expecting my second, and I am constantly told my first is the happiest, smartest, most self-assured kid her age they've ever seen. It's not who works, how often, it's the quality of the time they spend with the kid. I know kids of "stay at home moms" who are some of the most fucked up kids in the world. I know kids of employed moms who are also fucked up. It depends on the mom and the kid and the family situation -- and as I said in my previous post: you have to determine what's right for you and your goals. Bringing the SAHM vs. employed mom as regards kids is not the issue here.
"Sacred cows make the best burgers!"
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Little Black Francis
> Teenager of the Year <
3648 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2003 : 05:29:18
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Wow.
Thank you for a very well spoken responce, it is much obliged. You have reaffirmed to myself the reason I even posted this topic. To top it all off, she isn't that gorgeous or that great of a fuck in my opinion, at minimum average, at best above average.
Regardless of her, I can't figure out what my goal is...
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Little Black Francis
> Teenager of the Year <
3648 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2003 : 05:31:27
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I feel a lot better knowing now that I am not the only one who thinks she is shallow on the outside.
Sugar Daddy and the Trophy Wife thing sum it up so well.
Good Morning Black Purse by the way...
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Little Black Francis
> Teenager of the Year <
3648 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2003 : 05:44:09
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Why am a letting this conservative hypocrite corrupt me? (the chick)
I am not wrong for thinking she is a fuckhead for treating me like she did,,, Irony, she once asked me to loan her a couple hundred bucks..
I got took... fuck me.
Maybe someday I shall learn, Blackpurse, Mere, Romana, Floop and everyone except Jimmy (just kitten:)... thanks for the quotes...
snooch to the booch
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Edited by - Little Black Francis on 08/11/2003 05:45:01 |
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Scarla O
= Cult of Ray =
United Kingdom
947 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2003 : 05:56:00
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Blackpurse, where does your signature come from? (apologies if you made it up yourself).
It rocks! |
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blackpurse
= Cult of Ray =
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2003 : 06:26:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Scarla O
Blackpurse, where does your signature come from? (apologies if you made it up yourself).
It rocks!
Kriegel and Patler, "If It Ain't Broke, Break It -- And Other Unconventional Wisdom for a Changing Business World", Warner Books, 1992. Left over from business classes I took.
"Sacred cows make the best burgers!"
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