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 Song Discussion: Daniel Boone

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T O P I C    R E V I E W
pot Posted - 09/14/2019 : 10:20:54
I guess the overall consensus by now is that this is the best track on the new album, and probably the bext Pixies 2.0 (so far)

But what's it about? Who was Daniel Boone?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Boone

The descendant of two quakers from England/Wales who moved to the US in the early 18th century, he worked as a farmer and hunter/trapper, fought in the Revolutionary War and founded a village in Kentucky. One of America's first "folk heroes".

But is the song about him, or about something else and using the character of Daniel Boone as a vehicle for some other meaning?

What's the song got to do with Lord Howe Island Marine Park? Another reference to marine life in the album.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Howe_Island_Marine_Park

Basically the lyrics to the whole song are this:

"Last night i was driving around
Nothing to do
Thinking of you
I sighted here on the bend
Reindeer and then it was through

And I floated toward the moon
And I noted from on high
That the Lord Howe reef
Looks like Daniel Boone
And he was showing me his smile"
35   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Bedbug Posted - 10/25/2019 : 08:48:12
quote:
Originally posted by coastline

I didnít think this was possible, but I love this song even more after listening to the podcast episode about its creation and recording. Everyone in the studio knew it was special from the moment FB showed it to them, and they did such a good job adding the parts until it was a classic ó especially Tom Dalgety. Wow.


__________________________________________________

If all you see is violins, then I make a plea in their defense.



Agreed, those first chords are just like wow
coastline Posted - 10/25/2019 : 04:16:33
I didnít think this was possible, but I love this song even more after listening to the podcast episode about its creation and recording. Everyone in the studio knew it was special from the moment FB showed it to them, and they did such a good job adding the parts until it was a classic ó especially Tom Dalgety. Wow.


__________________________________________________

If all you see is violins, then I make a plea in their defense.
tamefan Posted - 10/03/2019 : 08:52:40
Awesome response, that makes me want to give FB&C another chance. I haven't really enjoyed what I've heard (s/t, pistolero, sunday & dog). I'll give the band another shot and especially the songs you've listed.
Troubles A Foot Posted - 09/26/2019 : 19:06:47
quote:
Originally posted by tamefan

quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

I do feel like the critics or Pixies fans praising Daniel Boone, I just want to be like "if you like that song check out Frank Black & The Catholics albums..."



Could you recommend a specific song?




Daniel Boone reminds me of songs like Manitoba, Man of Steel (ok not technically Catholics?), I Will Run After You, The Swimmer, Dog in the Sand, Coastline, etc...My point is that for Pixies fans, having this emotional existential kinda ballad seems like a departure, but a lot of Catholics music has that kind of feel to me...music to drive around to and feel these cathartic sad feelings. Boone feels like a Catholics song to me so much more than a Pixies song, not that what the Pixies band does with it is nothing short of perfect.
sdon Posted - 09/25/2019 : 20:35:03
quote:
Originally posted by coastline

One thing about this song, though: The title isn't half as good as the song itself. Possible better titles:

Lord Howe Reef
Sometimes Blue
From on High



__________________________________________________

If all you see is violins, then I make a plea in their defense.



True
Or maybe "Reindeer and then"

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"
coastline Posted - 09/25/2019 : 17:54:21
One thing about this song, though: The title isn't half as good as the song itself. Possible better titles:

Lord Howe Reef
Sometimes Blue
From on High



__________________________________________________

If all you see is violins, then I make a plea in their defense.
Bedbug Posted - 09/23/2019 : 22:37:50
quote:
Originally posted by coastline

I'm utterly obsessed with this song. I can't stop listening to it. Hands down, my favorite thing Frank has done since he became Black Francis again.


__________________________________________________

If all you see is violins, then I make a plea in their defense.



Wow!
tamefan Posted - 09/23/2019 : 20:28:44
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

I do feel like the critics or Pixies fans praising Daniel Boone, I just want to be like "if you like that song check out Frank Black & The Catholics albums..."



Could you recommend a specific song?
coastline Posted - 09/23/2019 : 18:06:32
Nice version from Manchester:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roL51-eV5xI


__________________________________________________

If all you see is violins, then I make a plea in their defense.
Troubles A Foot Posted - 09/23/2019 : 17:35:37
I do feel like the critics or Pixies fans praising Daniel Boone, I just want to be like "if you like that song check out Frank Black & The Catholics albums..."
coastline Posted - 09/23/2019 : 14:58:05
I'm utterly obsessed with this song. I can't stop listening to it. Hands down, my favorite thing Frank has done since he became Black Francis again.


__________________________________________________

If all you see is violins, then I make a plea in their defense.
pot Posted - 09/23/2019 : 13:17:03
I think I might be becoming slightly bored of the Boone song now.

This is what I've been wanting, for so many years. For the Pixies to release a new song that I love so much that I end up overlistening to it and then have to take a break from it.

I only say this because I thought about listening to it again just now, but I though Nah. Not really bothered. I think I need break from the Boone song.

I might go for the last two songs on the demos instead. Yes, let's do that.

Only 30 years will tell if the Boone song will always come back to me, like a dog that will never die. All of Pixies 1.0 seems like that: I never get bored of Pixies 1.0 no matter how much I listen to it (and that's been a lot)

Those Joey guitar effects.. (haunting)
coastline Posted - 09/20/2019 : 13:58:17
Ha.

quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

I have seen the face of Boone, and I was not afraid

Troubles A Foot Posted - 09/20/2019 : 13:55:57
I have seen the face of Boone, and I was not afraid
The Holiday Son Posted - 09/19/2019 : 22:29:28
My favourite song from BTE. It should definitely have ended the album.
two reelers Posted - 09/19/2019 : 16:48:47
The lyrical image invoking the morphing of the reef to Daniel Boone's head suggests that Frank was inspired by Salvador Dali's paranoic-critical method. Essentially,it means looking at one thing and recognizing another. Many Dali paintings from his early / most well-known surrealistic phase feature this. Frank knows his surrealism very well, so I would not be surprised.

I joined the cult of Souled American / 'cause they are a damn' fine band
vilainde Posted - 09/16/2019 : 01:43:33
Maybe it's about D. Boon of the Minutemen?

The songs reminds me of Bird Dream (quite a compliment!) except it doesn't end as loud. Could've used a bit more dynamics.


Denis
Sprite Posted - 09/16/2019 : 00:08:26
quote:
Originally posted by johnnyribcage

quote:
Originally posted by Sprite

Nice story, I had Brothers in Arms in 1986 at 15 thinking it was the Bees knees. Three years later I was mainlining the Pixies and going WTF was I thinking. I threw away quite a lot of tapes & records. I kept the Cult, Zep and the Specials, I was right about those.



Hey now, there is some light fare lyrically on Brothers In Arms and in some of Mark Knopfler's writing, but on the whole, he is an extremely good lyricist that has written some incredibly deep, poetic, and thoughtful songs. The majority of his songs are of good to outstanding lyrical quality. A real story teller. Even on the same album you tossed (which might be the weakest Straits album). Check out "The Man's Too Strong" or the title track.

But he's also capable of "sail the ship chop the tree skip the rope look at me all together now" songs too - which are fun and have their own place.

Sorry - as a huge Knopfler fan (I just saw him at Red Rocks), I had to step in and defend my boy. Back on topic now


I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.



Sorry, didn't mean to disparage one of your heros. I gave The Man's too Strong a listen. OK not bad. For sure I would have not been able to appreciate that at 18 (in fact I didn't even remember it). I am sure I would have thought FMRM or Honeycomb was garbage at that age.

Musical taste is quite volatile during adolescence I guess. I do remember distinctly comparing Monkey gone to Heaven vs Walk of Life and that's what did it for Brothers in Arms.
johnnyribcage Posted - 09/15/2019 : 08:55:19
I like the credits idea for Death Horizon, because itís hard to see Daniel as anything but the final statement. It definitely fits though. I like it as a bit of a breath after the heaviness of Boone. Itís like a ďHer MajestyĒ that actually makes sense and doesnít suck haha


I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.
tamefan Posted - 09/15/2019 : 08:54:58
Eyrie, Doolittle, Bossanova, and Trompe are all 39 minutes. What's missing from Eyrie are those sub-2 minute songs.
sdon Posted - 09/15/2019 : 08:52:57
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

I wish the album was a few tracks longer, this thing goes by really fast...I would have liked a few more excursions down some dark and mysterious roads. Or maybe more uptempo or bonkers stuff, the whole album is very mid-tempo.



Exactly
I expect this effect to be provided by the companion demos

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"
Troubles A Foot Posted - 09/15/2019 : 08:34:02
I wish the album was a few tracks longer, this thing goes by really fast...I would have liked a few more excursions down some dark and mysterious roads. Or maybe more uptempo or bonkers stuff, the whole album is very mid-tempo.
tamefan Posted - 09/15/2019 : 07:52:11
Death Horizon has an "exit music" quality -- the song that plays as the audience leaves. And Daniel Boone presents itself as the record's coda. That it fades out for 40 seconds, which is unprecedented for a Pixies song, is the strongest indication to me that its purpose is to be the album's end. Perhaps if the record were a few tracks longer this would be more apparent and acceptable.
Troubles A Foot Posted - 09/15/2019 : 06:56:02
Here's a question: Should this have been the final track?

Listening in my car the other day, as the song was ending I went "how in god's name is this not the end of the album?"

But then Death Horizon is also an ending song and works really well.

As I see it, this is Frank's "end of the movie --->> closing credits" move.

He did this on his self-titled album. That's really the only time, now that I think of it.

Every Time I Go Around Here is the big climactic end of the movie......aaaaand we're finished. The story is complete. BUT...those drums coming in on Don't Ya Rile 'Em is the big "DIRECTED BY FRANK BLACK" title card coming up, and the more upbeat song is like the end credits as people are getting up and leaving the theater.


BTE SORT of has this...Cause Death Horizon would also be a good "end of movie" song, but it's the closest thing I can think of for explaining it in my mind.

I feel like Daniel Boone as the final track would be really perfect and moving and one would hear that and think there's just no other way to end this album. But Death Horizon is more the celebratory acceptance kind of ending...this is the end (in more ways than one) and we could just rock out and enjoy it.
tamefan Posted - 09/15/2019 : 04:51:36
Sometimes
I see white
Sometimes
Blue
Blue

The bridge in Daniel Boone.

Death in white: the moon, a symbol of death and reincarnation -- a motif on Graveyard (death), Bird of Prey (reincarnation), Kate (reincarnation). Then there's the parallelism of a white angel floating toward the moon vs an angel falling from the sky. And Lord Howe reef down below, which I imagine is white like the coral snow in Silver Bullet (because, as he sings in Death Horizon, the temperature's rising), the white could also be the bleached coral sitting above the water (or are those sand bars?) which look like smiling teeth (see pic above).

Death in blue: down at the river bottom (Kate), on a shallow cove (Desiree), at the beach in Waikiki (DH), in the morning tide (Miki Dora and the others), walking the plank into the blue (Silver Bullet).
Stevio10 Posted - 09/15/2019 : 02:15:17
I think he mentioned Daniel Boone was like a relative of Caribou. Similar animal, death and repentance / reincarnation.
sdon Posted - 09/15/2019 : 00:21:21
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot

quote:


Charles has said in a couple of interviews that it's not about Daniel Boone.... he kinda jokingly said he needed something to rhyme with moon....


I think Charles is often a bit modest or deflecting in interviews and doesn't want to interpret his lyrics (or as he calls it, "poetry") for the interviewer. A lot of my favorite bands do this sort of thing. I'm not saying he didn't pick Boone cause it rhymes with moon, but I'm saying I don't think that's a reason to assume there's nothing more to the choice than that.



quote:
Dying after hitting a deer with a car and floating up to heaven. I don't know if there's much else to it, but I likes it a lot.



See that strikes me as an odd two sentences. Like...dying after hitting a deer and floating up to heaven, you could write an entire book based on that. You could write endless poems (or songs) about that situation and feeling and what that could "mean", etc. So to say there may not be much else to it...isn't that enough? You could dig into that for days. For a lifetime.


quote:
I know he likes to play around with nonsensical lyrics. I think he just writes music and then puts whatever lyrics he can to it, and there's little point in attempting to derive much deep from it all.

Whenever I hear banal lyrics to a song it always makes me think of my music teacher at school, one time he was talking about the new Dire Straits song (Walk of Life I think it was) and trying to argue that it doesn't really matter what the lyrics to a song is, it's the song that matters. That's the only memory that has stuck with me about my music teacher, apart from the fact he liked to run marathons and was ridiculously hairy.




I feel like I can talk about this for hours...I've never understood the "doesn't matter what the lyrics are" people. For me lyrics are like...everything.

I think it's a mistake to think Frank is writing whatever words he can to fit whatever music he has. If the podcast (or like his actual body of work over the decades) shows anything, it shows how he agonizes over what's the exact right phrasings (I'd assume for both rhythmic and actual word meaning) for every little part of the song, and you even hear him reject various candidates for lyrics because they aren't right, even though they technically "fit" in those parts of the song.

Another mistake would be thinking that going with your instincts and writing lyrics from the hip or quickly or etc are any less devoid of meaning, intended or otherwise, AND that unintended meaning should then be thrown away or not count, as if the subconscious isn't constantly throwing in consciously unintended meaning to things. Frank talks about this all the time, how he'll write a song and realize the meaning months or years later.

His songs are meaningful. Sometimes he doesn't even know it. But you feel it. It's instincts mixed with poetry mixed with intended meanings. It's the same as music. A chord progression can be stumbled on, but feel right, and have meaning and feeling to it.



extremely well put

--
"Aristophanes! (gong sounds)"
"Fucking up my devotion!"
hammerhands Posted - 09/14/2019 : 17:02:01
Iím sure everyone has looked at a map of Lord Howe Reef by now?

It does look like the tail of a coonskin cap, and half a face.

johnnyribcage Posted - 09/14/2019 : 15:36:12
quote:
Originally posted by Sprite

Nice story, I had Brothers in Arms in 1986 at 15 thinking it was the Bees knees. Three years later I was mainlining the Pixies and going WTF was I thinking. I threw away quite a lot of tapes & records. I kept the Cult, Zep and the Specials, I was right about those.



Hey now, there is some light fare lyrically on Brothers In Arms and in some of Mark Knopfler's writing, but on the whole, he is an extremely good lyricist that has written some incredibly deep, poetic, and thoughtful songs. The majority of his songs are of good to outstanding lyrical quality. A real story teller. Even on the same album you tossed (which might be the weakest Straits album). Check out "The Man's Too Strong" or the title track.

But he's also capable of "sail the ship chop the tree skip the rope look at me all together now" songs too - which are fun and have their own place.

Sorry - as a huge Knopfler fan (I just saw him at Red Rocks), I had to step in and defend my boy. Back on topic now


I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.
johnnyribcage Posted - 09/14/2019 : 15:22:23
quote:
Originally posted by pot

I guess the overall consensus by now is that this is the best track on the new album, and probably the bext Pixies 2.0 (so far)




I'm DEFINITELY not ready to elevate it to that status. It's only been a couple days. Great song though.


I had a bad reaction to your public hobby writings.
Jamie Posted - 09/14/2019 : 15:16:13
Or like Where is my Mind. The lyrics are pretty literal when you read them, but they feel like they mean more.
pot Posted - 09/14/2019 : 12:28:05
quote:
Originally posted by Troubles A Foot
I think Charles is often a bit modest or deflecting in interviews and doesn't want to interpret his lyrics (or as he calls it, "poetry") for the interviewer. A lot of my favorite bands do this sort of thing. I'm not saying he didn't pick Boone cause it rhymes with moon, but I'm saying I don't think that's a reason to assume there's nothing more to the choice than that.



I would never dream of it. Lyrics are thoughts. Thoughts come from where?

quote:
See that strikes me as an odd two sentences. Like...dying after hitting a deer and floating up to heaven, you could write an entire book based on that. You could write endless poems (or songs) about that situation and feeling and what that could "mean", etc. So to say there may not be much else to it...isn't that enough? You could dig into that for days. For a lifetime.


I'd like to think there is some deeper meaning hidden in there.

quote:
I feel like I can talk about this for hours...I've never understood the "doesn't matter what the lyrics are" people. For me lyrics are like...everything.

I think it's a mistake to think Frank is writing whatever words he can to fit whatever music he has. If the podcast (or like his actual body of work over the decades) shows anything, it shows how he agonizes over what's the exact right phrasings (I'd assume for both rhythmic and actual word meaning) for every little part of the song, and you even hear him reject various candidates for lyrics because they aren't right, even though they technically "fit" in those parts of the song.

Another mistake would be thinking that going with your instincts and writing lyrics from the hip or quickly or etc are any less devoid of meaning, intended or otherwise, AND that unintended meaning should then be thrown away or not count, as if the subconscious isn't constantly throwing in consciously unintended meaning to things. Frank talks about this all the time, how he'll write a song and realize the meaning months or years later.

His songs are meaningful. Sometimes he doesn't even know it. But you feel it. It's instincts mixed with poetry mixed with intended meanings. It's the same as music. A chord progression can be stumbled on, but feel right, and have meaning and feeling to it.



Whether he intended Daniel Boone to mean something it has struck a chord in my head, like the simple lyrics from Havalina or Ana or Stormy Weather.

That's what I like about his lyrics. Sometimes they just fill the space in between the sound, other times they stick in your head and get you all thinking.

pot Posted - 09/14/2019 : 11:58:36
quote:
Originally posted by Sprite

Nice story, I had Brothers in Arms in 1986 at 15 thinking it was the Bees knees. Three years later I was mainlining the Pixies and going WTF was I thinking. I threw away quite a lot of tapes & records. I kept the Cult, Zep and the Specials, I was right about those.



You are for naming all good bands, yes.

Brothers In Arms was a good album. I used to own it on Vinyl. Fuck knows why I sold it. Oh I remember now, I lost some money on a hand at poker 4 years ago..

Never took much notice of The Specials really, not a big ska fan but I did see a pretty good ska band once at a festival in Nijmegen. They played the gig they did at the 100 Club recently on BBC radio 6 and I was surprised at how much I dug it. My favourite bit was when they brought on anti-fascist protestor Saffiyah Kahn to sing the song they invited her to write/record on their new album and it was really good!

I remember hearing about the viral upload where she was facing off the gammon with a smile and wearing a Specials t-shirt and the band saw it amd asked her to do a song.

It's such a shame West Indian culture infiltrating British society during that time was impeded by cannabis prohibition. So much hate has been sown by the UK government and the police.
Troubles A Foot Posted - 09/14/2019 : 11:55:58
quote:


Charles has said in a couple of interviews that it's not about Daniel Boone.... he kinda jokingly said he needed something to rhyme with moon....


I think Charles is often a bit modest or deflecting in interviews and doesn't want to interpret his lyrics (or as he calls it, "poetry") for the interviewer. A lot of my favorite bands do this sort of thing. I'm not saying he didn't pick Boone cause it rhymes with moon, but I'm saying I don't think that's a reason to assume there's nothing more to the choice than that.



quote:
Dying after hitting a deer with a car and floating up to heaven. I don't know if there's much else to it, but I likes it a lot.



See that strikes me as an odd two sentences. Like...dying after hitting a deer and floating up to heaven, you could write an entire book based on that. You could write endless poems (or songs) about that situation and feeling and what that could "mean", etc. So to say there may not be much else to it...isn't that enough? You could dig into that for days. For a lifetime.


quote:
I know he likes to play around with nonsensical lyrics. I think he just writes music and then puts whatever lyrics he can to it, and there's little point in attempting to derive much deep from it all.

Whenever I hear banal lyrics to a song it always makes me think of my music teacher at school, one time he was talking about the new Dire Straits song (Walk of Life I think it was) and trying to argue that it doesn't really matter what the lyrics to a song is, it's the song that matters. That's the only memory that has stuck with me about my music teacher, apart from the fact he liked to run marathons and was ridiculously hairy.




I feel like I can talk about this for hours...I've never understood the "doesn't matter what the lyrics are" people. For me lyrics are like...everything.

I think it's a mistake to think Frank is writing whatever words he can to fit whatever music he has. If the podcast (or like his actual body of work over the decades) shows anything, it shows how he agonizes over what's the exact right phrasings (I'd assume for both rhythmic and actual word meaning) for every little part of the song, and you even hear him reject various candidates for lyrics because they aren't right, even though they technically "fit" in those parts of the song.

Another mistake would be thinking that going with your instincts and writing lyrics from the hip or quickly or etc are any less devoid of meaning, intended or otherwise, AND that unintended meaning should then be thrown away or not count, as if the subconscious isn't constantly throwing in consciously unintended meaning to things. Frank talks about this all the time, how he'll write a song and realize the meaning months or years later.

His songs are meaningful. Sometimes he doesn't even know it. But you feel it. It's instincts mixed with poetry mixed with intended meanings. It's the same as music. A chord progression can be stumbled on, but feel right, and have meaning and feeling to it.
Sprite Posted - 09/14/2019 : 11:27:00
Nice story, I had Brothers in Arms in 1986 at 15 thinking it was the Bees knees. Three years later I was mainlining the Pixies and going WTF was I thinking. I threw away quite a lot of tapes & records. I kept the Cult, Zep and the Specials, I was right about those.

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