| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Cheeseman1000 |
Posted - 09/30/2004 : 14:55:13
Just a tribute thread to an album that actually does get better every time I listen to it: Jeff Buckly's 'Grace'.
Every song on this album is fantastic; the band are superb; Buckley's guitar playing and voice are phenomenal; 'Hallelujah' is up there as one of the very best songs ever recorded and is far better than the original; the lyrics on the album are just beautiful.
Pay tribute here on the 10th anniversary of the album.
"You ever seen a man say goodbye to a shoe?"
"Yes, once..." |
| 35 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| cassandra is |
Posted - 10/04/2004 : 10:03:01
quote:
Originally posted by Monsieur
The main reason why I was a little bit violent with our friend Jeff is because there is such a consensus around him that you have to lift your voice in order to make yourself heard.
I understand why some people (especially schoolgirls) like Jeff Buckley - he is this new Rimbaud, his tragic death increases the romantic nature of the character. The problem is, I hate Rimbaud.
His artistic expression is too lyrical, too direct. There is no meditation about the structure of the songs. Moreover, I would seriously question his originality. In fact, the only thing that is really above average is his voice. So I don't find his work very creative.
Art is about showing people a different way of seeing the world. We tend to see the world as a simplification - we see only what is useful. That is how the human brain is configured, you have to eliminate 99.99% of the information you receive. The artist is capable of seeing the world in a different, essential way, and expressing this point of view by making it understandable by the others.
Some people are able to draw astonishingly good pictures which almost look like real. That is technically very hard to achieve. Yet they are not Picasso.
Jeff Buckley was a really good singer, but how many artists can be influenced by him? (please don't say Muse)
Another thing I hate about Jeff Buckley is the moaning. Art is about style so if you suffer, suffer with style.
Take the Smiths (covered by JB). Morrissey was capable of injecting humour into his desperate states. Or Frank - "they were singing about my imminent divorce" makes a sad situation become funny. Or Kafka, who was profoundly desperate yet capable of irony about himself.
I will show you fear in a handful of dust
I won't say that I agree with you, but I understand your point of view. My girlfriend never liked Jeff except three or four songs, she also finds he's moaning: I really don't agree with that, I think that it's just his way of singing, and if he's technically a very good singer -and a very good guitarist- he doesn't stop himself at a pure technical approach of his songs. I think his interpretations -live or on record- are not artificial technique, but just an expression of his feelings, of his passions, I really don't think it's some kind of "technical masturbation", I think he was really honest in his art.
I really don't know what you mean by saying "if you suffer, suffer with style"... does this mean that it's forbidden for a musician to be a good technician? to use your abilities to magnify your music?
Can you imagine someone jumping on stage and telling to the audience:"ladies and gentlemen excuse me but I'm a very good singer, so I will sing in a shitty way, because I want to be true to my feelings"?
"true" feelings can be intenses and lyricals, fortunately.
Morrisey had humour, but Jeff also: just listen to his live versions of Kashmir or The End.
I suspect you to have this kind of attitude: "I don't like Jeff Buckley, because everyone likes him" I don't like consensus too, but when I see a genius, I kneel down.
pas de bras pas de chocolat |
| Monsieur |
Posted - 10/04/2004 : 08:02:09
The main reason why I was a little bit violent with our friend Jeff is because there is such a consensus around him that you have to lift your voice in order to make yourself heard.
I understand why some people (especially schoolgirls) like Jeff Buckley - he is this new Rimbaud, his tragic death increases the romantic nature of the character. The problem is, I hate Rimbaud.
His artistic expression is too lyrical, too direct. There is no meditation about the structure of the songs. Moreover, I would seriously question his originality. In fact, the only thing that is really above average is his voice. So I don't find his work very creative.
Art is about showing people a different way of seeing the world. We tend to see the world as a simplification - we see only what is useful. That is how the human brain is configured, you have to eliminate 99.99% of the information you receive. The artist is capable of seeing the world in a different, essential way, and expressing this point of view by making it understandable by the others.
Some people are able to draw astonishingly good pictures which almost look like real. That is technically very hard to achieve. Yet they are not Picasso.
Jeff Buckley was a really good singer, but how many artists can be influenced by him? (please don't say Muse)
Another thing I hate about Jeff Buckley is the moaning. Art is about style so if you suffer, suffer with style.
Take the Smiths (covered by JB). Morrissey was capable of injecting humour into his desperate states. Or Frank - "they were singing about my imminent divorce" makes a sad situation become funny. Or Kafka, who was profoundly desperate yet capable of irony about himself.
I will show you fear in a handful of dust |
| GypsyDeath |
Posted - 10/04/2004 : 06:03:05
exactly. Thats what makes music so interesting, is that there are different qualities which appeal to different people. And some different qualities which appeal to the same people. To dismiss Buckley purely because you feel he is 'cliche' or for 'school girls' is basically dismissing all music which doesnt appeal to your self.
I get it, we all do. You dont like J B. Fair enough, each to their own. You raised some points which I had not heard expressed about him before, which is interesting, as I like to hear other peoples views about music, paricularly artists such as Jeff, since he is generally so well liked and admired. To come out and say you dont like him is rare, but interesting.
However, I would liek to hear some more interesting points as to why you dislike him. But if these are your reasons then fair enough.
God forbid I exude confidence and enjoy sex |
| Cheeseman1000 |
Posted - 10/04/2004 : 05:51:26
I would say don't paint all musicians with the same brush. Just because Frank Black makes music which doesn't always wear its heart on its sleeve doesn't mean all musicians should conform to this.
"You ever seen a man say goodbye to a shoe?"
"Yes, once..." |
| Monsieur |
Posted - 10/04/2004 : 04:24:39
quote:
Originally posted by Cheeseman1000
quote:
Originally posted by Monsieur
Hallelujah is a boring and cliché song.
I just don't get you at all here, Ad, but thats cool, I'll respect your opinion.
Call me lame and unsophisticated, but I like singers laying their emotions right out, which is why I like Jeff Buckley, Damien Rice, Neil Young...
I can also appreciate a bit less of it, e.g. Frank or Elliot Smith, but there's no way I'll agree that Grace is anything less than a stunningly good album.
"You ever seen a man say goodbye to a shoe?"
"Yes, once..."
As Frank pointed out in an interview, it is good to express your emotions but you have to give them something to wear.
Shyness is one of the most precious qualities for an artist.
I will show you fear in a handful of dust |
| cassandra is |
Posted - 10/04/2004 : 03:11:24
mm mm?
does it also take an IQ to make a banker?
pas de bras pas de chocolat |
| Monsieur |
Posted - 10/04/2004 : 03:05:07
Not only do I find Jeff the crybaby cliché but also completely uninteresting.
He did have an incredible voice, that's for sure. But it also takes an IQ to make an artist.
I will show you fear in a handful of dust |
| cassandra is |
Posted - 10/04/2004 : 02:56:04
yep
pas de bras pas de chocolat |
| ProverbialCereal |
Posted - 10/03/2004 : 18:17:16
Jeff Buckley is amazing.
I'm not really understanding your reasons for hating jeff buckley, Monsieur...
alot of highschool girls like him? If you did a poll I'm sure you'd find alot of high school girls like the Pixies too. Yeah you're right, I guess it's a reason to dislike someone. I don't like the Pixies or Jeff Buckley anymore.
Jeff Buckley is cliche? Yeah, another weak argument. No offense but saying something is cliche is a total cliche. Especially if the thing is not cliche, in this case.
It IS opinion and that's fine obviously, but your reasons aren't convincing me. Even putting him next to his father and saying Tim is better is rather unnecessary.
If anyone wants Jeff Buckley's voice to give you chills, listen to "The Other Woman" on the new Grace legacy edition. Elegant and sweet. I think Jeff does pour his emotions into his songs, but at least it is 'so real.' It doesn't seem forced out of him. The song "Forget Her" was supposed to be on Grace instead of "So Real" but he opted to keep it off because it was too personal or something. It's in the liner notes exactly why it wasn't on Grace
Join the Cult of Stromboli / They're good |
| Homers_pet_monkey |
Posted - 10/02/2004 : 15:28:43
quote:
Originally posted by ramona
I know! I'm so out of the floop. I have always been behind the times...
_____________________________________________________________________
There’s a story in your voice - both by damage and by choice
It tells of promises and pleasure and a tale of wine and woe
The uneasy time to come
And the long way ‘round we go to get there
________________________________
http://buymediamonds.blogspot.com
Actually I am quite into him at the moment! Funny guy!
As for Grace, simply beautiful, what more is there to say?
Help me! He keeps making me post!
|
| bumblebeeboy2 |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 17:01:27
quote:
Originally posted by Monsieur
I HATE JEFF BUCKLEY!!!
I find "Hallelujah" is a shitty song.
Sorry, but I really have to disagree.
The only Buckley I listen to is Tim.
I will show you fear in a handful of dust
i'm afraid i'm with mono here, not a big fan of jeff buckley myself...
The Monkey Helper has arrived http://www.monkeyhelper.co.uk (that is my band) |
| Cheeseman1000 |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 16:58:48
quote:
Originally posted by Monsieur
Hallelujah is a boring and cliché song.
I just don't get you at all here, Ad, but thats cool, I'll respect your opinion.
Call me lame and unsophisticated, but I like singers laying their emotions right out, which is why I like Jeff Buckley, Damien Rice, Neil Young...
I can also appreciate a bit less of it, e.g. Frank or Elliot Smith, but there's no way I'll agree that Grace is anything less than a stunningly good album.
"You ever seen a man say goodbye to a shoe?"
"Yes, once..." |
| n/a |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 16:00:40
Monsieur, we got the message ok!!! You don't like Jeff Buckley! We got it! Now can we carry on with the we like Jeff Buckley conversations?
I look like the kind of guy who pimps his sister not just for the money, but because he hates her
|
| kelladwella |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 15:33:51
ramona - The Aimee Mann song you are looking for is "Just Like Anyone". Its on "Bachelor#2". Short, quiet and beautifull. And abut the death of Jeff Buckley, I think. |
| cassandra is |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 13:43:23
i think he's smoking crack, or maybe he doesn't understand english...
pas de bras pas de chocolat |
| Coldheartofstone |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 13:27:36
Cliche song?!? Are you smoking crack? |
| Coldheartofstone |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 13:25:58
quote:
Originally posted by Monsieur
I HATE JEFF BUCKLEY!!!
I find "Hallelujah" is a shitty song.
Sorry, but I really have to disagree.
The only Buckley I listen to is Tim.
I will show you fear in a handful of dust
Then I guess you hate Leonard Cohen as well? Cause it is his song.
I say you he dead! |
| Monsieur |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 13:00:50
Hallelujah is a boring and cliché song.
There are so many excellent songs written by Tim Buckley. You should lisyen to them.
I will show you fear in a handful of dust |
| Carl |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 11:58:09
I loved 'So Real' from the first time I heard 'Grace'. He was such a talented guy. |
| cassandra is |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 09:25:06
right, i never said that Jeff was better than Frank, I just said he made a better album than all his father's productions. Look: song to the siren is one of the prettiest songs ever written, but the version of This Mortal Coil is far more better than TB's one.
from the first notes of Mojo Pin to the last notes of Dream Brother, Grace is perfect, and Hallelujah one of the greatest covers ever made
pas de bras pas de chocolat |
| Monsieur |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 08:58:22
His father's music really built a particular universe. He made a perfect song "Song to the siren".
Jeff only expressed his emotions, straightforward.
Frank has never expressed his emotions straightforward, that's what I like so much about him. Even in SMYT, there is a style. It's taking a cliché and making it not so cliché.
Jeff Buckley is cliché.
I will show you fear in a handful of dust |
| cassandra is |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 06:19:19
[quote]Originally posted by Monsieur
Many girls in my highschool liked Jeff Buckley.
I don't give a fuck about his story. I just can't standing his moaning in the microphone.
and what about his father's moaning?
He made very good albums, but his son's made the perfect one
I don't think he ever played the "tortured artist", he was very funny on stage.
pas de bras pas de chocolat |
| the tolerant |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 05:51:34
i hear you monsieur. I never thought of it like that. at the end of the day they're only strumming a guitar. if you like it, good. if not, its no big thing.
Frank has always been the man, not just in the chords or lyrics, like you said, its his attitude to it all. I sometimes forget.
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| n/a |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 05:46:57
He has a lovely voice. LOVELY
I look like the kind of guy who pimps his sister not just for the money, but because he hates her
|
| Monsieur |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 05:39:38
Frank was quite popular in France when I was in highschool. "Headache" was played on mainstream radios, as well as "You ain't me".
As you said before, it's a question of taste. And it DOES have to do with an attitude. What I respect about Frank almost as much as his musical genius is the fact that his clothes or conversations are always very normal and down to earth and he is never pretending to be artistic or anything.
I will show you fear in a handful of dust |
| the tolerant |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 05:33:40
yeah i can see it would annoy a few. guess its just personal taste. my brothers with you. he'd rather have tim than jeff anyday.
and your school sounded pretty cool. the girls at mine were pop freaks and wannabes....its jeff who?...just like Frank who?.
his story has fuck all to do with anything, just you called him a tortured artist, was that the girls opinion or yours? |
| Monsieur |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 05:25:22
Many girls in my highschool liked Jeff Buckley.
I don't give a fuck about his story. I just can't standing his moaning in the microphone.
I will show you fear in a handful of dust |
| Monsieur |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 05:01:52
Man, just look at him - the tortured artist. He is very successful with highschool girls.
I will show you fear in a handful of dust |
| Monsieur |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 04:59:59
I HATE JEFF BUCKLEY!!!
I find "Hallelujah" is a shitty song.
Sorry, but I really have to disagree.
The only Buckley I listen to is Tim.
I will show you fear in a handful of dust |
| the tolerant |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 04:28:27
Yey, Jeff Buckley. One of my favourites.
Grace is up there with my fave albums ever (and the most fun to play along to), do you have his live recordings from his time at Sin-e?
i got the 'songs to no one' album last year and it has few grace songs but stripped down to just jeff and gary Lucas, oh, and a harmonica. very cool.
i could talk about this man for a long time but i'm not gonna bore anyone with my rants, just giving a big thumbs up to this thread.
Grace has been re-released with some new stuff from the original, worth checking out if you dont already own it.
another waste of a life, especially someone who planned on being around a while. |
| Brackish Heart |
Posted - 10/01/2004 : 03:57:01
I'm a later starter as well, only been listening to the album intensely for about a year but it is definitely a masterpiece. Picked up a live dvd of him too, incredible how someone with such a beautiful soft voice could rock so damn hard...awesome stuff...what a waste of such a talent. RIP. |
| n/a |
Posted - 09/30/2004 : 15:53:02
This album is breath-taking, I've been listening to it a lot recently, has anyone got the live CD or the new anniversary CD's? I keep pulling towards them in HMV, I think Last Goodbye is my favourite, or is it Grace, or is it Lover, you should've come over, or is it.....
I look like the kind of guy who pimps his sister not just for the money, but because he hates her
|
| ramona |
Posted - 09/30/2004 : 15:36:48
I know! I'm so out of the loop. I have always been behind the times...
_____________________________________________________________________
There’s a story in your voice - both by damage and by choice
It tells of promises and pleasure and a tale of wine and woe
The uneasy time to come
And the long way ‘round we go to get there
________________________________
http://buymediamonds.blogspot.com |
| Cheeseman1000 |
Posted - 09/30/2004 : 15:05:09
Which tracks are you missing, Em? You should really get with it ya know... 
I just got a copy of 'Sketches For My Sweetheart The Drunk' the other day, which is also excellent.
"You ever seen a man say goodbye to a shoe?"
"Yes, once..." |
| ramona |
Posted - 09/30/2004 : 14:58:05
I have about 75% of this CD. My friend burned it for me but left some off. I am not sure why. I will have to get the whole thing at some point. Hallelujah is a fucking beautiful song. They played it on The OC - (and I have heard it on an erray of other shows too) what was up with THAT? It deserves so much more.
The Aimee Mann song SHOULD HAVE KNOWN (I think that is what it is called) is about Jeff Buckley. I will find the lyrics and post 'em here.
_____________________________________________________________________
There’s a story in your voice - both by damage and by choice
It tells of promises and pleasure and a tale of wine and woe
The uneasy time to come
And the long way ‘round we go to get there
________________________________
http://buymediamonds.blogspot.com |
