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[quote][i]Originally posted by Daisy Girl[/i]
[br][size=2][size=3][size=4][b][limegreen]This thread is for people who who want to post articles about the election in one place :)[/limegreen][/b][/size=4][/size=3][/size=2]

There are 36 days until the election.  If you haven't registered, now's the time. Click here for more info..... http://www.declareyourself.com/

Also, if you or some one you know has been convicted of a fellony, I have heard you CAN vote... so it is worth
checking into.

************************
This is how Kerry feels about Iraq... does anyone what Bush thinks...I just want this to be an open discussion with no name calling :)

[b]The war on Iraq was a mistake[/b] -- war was unnecessary because the inspections were working: "Today, President Bush tells us that he would do everything all over again, the same way. How can he possibly be serious? Is he really saying that if we knew there were no imminent threat, no weapons of mass destruction, no ties to Al Qaeda, the United States should have invaded Iraq? My answer is no -- because a commander in chief's first responsibility is to make a wise and responsible decision to keep America safe."

[b]Iraq distracted from the war on terror:[/b] "The president claims it is the centerpiece of his war on terror. In fact, Iraq was a profound diversion from that war and the battle against our greatest enemy, Osama bin Laden and the terrorists. Invading Iraq has created a crisis of historic proportions and, if we do not change course, there is the prospect of a war with no end in sight." 
President Bush misled us about the reasons for the war before it occurred: "He failed to tell the truth about the rationale for going to war. And he failed to tell the truth about the burden this war would impose on our soldiers and our citizens. By one count, the president offered 23 different rationales for this war." 
President Bush is still misleading people about Iraq, painting an optimistic picture directly contradicted by his own intelligence officials: "In June, the president declared, 'The Iraqi people have their country back.' Just last week, he told us: 'This country is headed toward democracy. Freedom is on the march.' But the Administration's own official intelligence estimate, given to the president last July, tells a very different story. According to press reports, the intelligence estimate totally contradicts what the president is saying to the American people."

[b]Bush went to war for ideological reasons and consistently misjudged the situation on the ground:[/b] "This president was in denial. He hitched his wagon to the ideologues who surround him, filtering out those who disagreed, including leaders of his own party and the uniformed military. The result is a long litany of misjudgments with terrible consequences. The administration told us we'd be greeted as liberators. They were wrong. They told us not to worry about looting or the sorry state of Iraq's infrastructure. They were wrong. They told us we had enough troops to provide security and stability, defeat the insurgents, guard the borders and secure the arms depots. They were wrong. They told us we could rely on exiles like Ahmed Chalabi to build political legitimacy. They were wrong. They told us we would quickly restore an Iraqi civil service to run the country and a police force and army to secure it. They were wrong. In Iraq, this administration has consistently over-promised and under-performed. This policy has been plagued by a lack of planning, an absence of candor, arrogance and outright incompetence. And the president has held no one accountable, including himself."

[b]John Kerry has a four-point plan to fix our Iraq policy:[/b]

"First, the president has to get the promised international support so our men and women in uniform don't have to go it alone. It is late; the president must respond by moving this week to gain and regain international support. The president should convene a summit meeting of the world's major powers and Iraq's neighbors, this week, in New York, where many leaders will attend the U.N. General Assembly. He should insist that they make good on that U.N. resolution. He should offer potential troop contributors specific, but critical roles, in training Iraqi security personnel and securing Iraq's borders. He should give other countries a stake in Iraq's future by encouraging them to help develop Iraq's oil resources and by letting them bid on contracts instead of locking them out of the reconstruction process."

"Second, the president must get serious about training Iraqi security forces. The president should urgently expand the security forces training program inside and outside Iraq. He should strengthen the vetting of recruits, double classroom training time, and require follow-on field training. He should recruit thousands of qualified trainers from our allies, especially those who have no troops in Iraq. He should press our NATO allies to open training centers in their countries. And he should stop misleading the American people with phony, inflated numbers."

"Third, the president must carry out a reconstruction plan that finally brings tangible benefits to the Iraqi people. One year ago, the administration asked for and received $18 billion to help the Iraqis and relieve the conditions that contribute to the insurgency. Today, less than a $1 billion of those funds have actually been spent. I said at the time that we had to rethink our policies and set standards of accountability. Now we're paying the price. Now, the president should look at the whole reconstruction package, draw up a list of high visibility, quick impact projects, and cut through the red tape. He should use more Iraqi contractors and workers, instead of big corporations like Halliburton. He should stop paying companies under investigation for fraud or corruption. And he should fire the civilians in the Pentagon responsible for mismanaging the reconstruction effort."

"Fourth, the president must take immediate, urgent, essential steps to guarantee the promised elections can be held next year. If the president would move in this direction, if he would bring in more help from other countries to provide resources and forces, train the Iraqis to provide their own security, develop a reconstruction plan that brings real benefits to the Iraqi people, and take the steps necessary to hold credible elections next year -- we could begin to withdraw U.S. forces starting next summer and realistically aim to bring all our troops home within the next four years."
[/quote]

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Daisy Girl	Posted - 09/27/2004 : 17:20:44 This thread is for people who who want to post articles about the election in one place :) There are 36 days until the election. If you haven't registered, now's the time. Click here for more info..... http://www.declareyourself.com/ Also, if you or some one you know has been convicted of a fellony, I have heard you CAN vote... so it is worth checking into. ********************** This is how Kerry feels about Iraq... does anyone what Bush thinks...I just want this to be an open discussion with no name calling :) The war on Iraq was a mistake -- war was unnecessary because the inspections were working: "Today, President Bush tells us that he would do everything all over again, the same way. How can he possibly be serious? Is he really saying that if we knew there were no imminent threat, no weapons of mass destruction, no ties to Al Qaeda, the United States should have invaded Iraq? My answer is no -- because a commander in chief's first responsibility is to make a wise and responsible decision to keep America safe." Iraq distracted from the war on terror: "The president claims it is the centerpiece of his war on terror. In fact, Iraq was a profound diversion from that war and the battle against our greatest enemy, Osama bin Laden and the terrorists. Invading Iraq has created a crisis of historic proportions and, if we do not change course, there is the prospect of a war with no end in sight." President Bush misled us about the reasons for the war before it occurred: "He failed to tell the truth about the rationale for going to war. And he failed to tell the truth about the burden this war would impose on our soldiers and our citizens. By one count, the president offered 23 different rationales for this war." President Bush is still misleading people about Iraq, painting an optimistic picture directly contradicted by his own intelligence officials: "In June, the president declared, 'The Iraqi people have their country back.' Just last week, he told us: 'This country is headed toward democracy. Freedom is on the march.' But the Administration's own official intelligence estimate, given to the president last July, tells a very different story. According to press reports, the intelligence estimate totally contradicts what the president is saying to the American people." Bush went to war for ideological reasons and consistently misjudged the situation on the ground: "This president was in denial. He hitched his wagon to the ideologues who surround him, filtering out those who disagreed, including leaders of his own party and the uniformed military. The result is a long litany of misjudgments with terrible consequences. The administration told us we'd be greeted as liberators. They were wrong. They told us not to worry about looting or the sorry state of Iraq's infrastructure. They were wrong. They told us we had enough troops to provide security and stability, defeat the insurgents, guard the borders and secure the arms depots. They were wrong. They told us we could rely on exiles like Ahmed Chalabi to build political legitimacy. They were wrong. They told us we would quickly restore an Iraqi civil service to run the country and a police force and army to secure it. They were wrong. In Iraq, this administration has consistently over-promised and under-performed. This policy has been plagued by a lack of planning, an absence of candor, arrogance and outright incompetence. And the president has held no one accountable, including himself." John Kerry has a four-point plan to fix our Iraq policy:** "First, the president has to get the promised international support so our men and women in uniform don't have to go it alone. It is late; the president must respond by moving this week to gain and regain international support. The president should convene a summit meeting of the world's major powers and Iraq's neighbors, this week, in New York, where many leaders will attend the U.N. General Assembly. He should insist that they make good on that U.N. resolution. He should offer potential troop contributors specific, but critical roles, in training Iraqi security personnel and securing Iraq's borders. He should give other countries a stake in Iraq's future by encouraging them to help develop Iraq's oil resources and by letting them bid on contracts instead of locking them out of the reconstruction process." "Second, the president must get serious about training Iraqi security forces. The president should urgently expand the security forces training program inside and outside Iraq. He should strengthen the vetting of recruits, double classroom training time, and require follow-on field training. He should recruit thousands of qualified trainers from our allies, especially those who have no troops in Iraq. He should press our NATO allies to open training centers in their countries. And he should stop misleading the American people with phony, inflated numbers." "Third, the president must carry out a reconstruction plan that finally brings tangible benefits to the Iraqi people. One year ago, the administration asked for and received $18 billion to help the Iraqis and relieve the conditions that contribute to the insurgency. Today, less than a $1 billion of those funds have actually been spent. I said at the time that we had to rethink our policies and set standards of accountability. Now we're paying the price. Now, the president should look at the whole reconstruction package, draw up a list of high visibility, quick impact projects, and cut through the red tape. He should use more Iraqi contractors and workers, instead of big corporations like Halliburton. He should stop paying companies under investigation for fraud or corruption. And he should fire the civilians in the Pentagon responsible for mismanaging the reconstruction effort." "Fourth, the president must take immediate, urgent, essential steps to guarantee the promised elections can be held next year. If the president would move in this direction, if he would bring in more help from other countries to provide resources and forces, train the Iraqis to provide their own security, develop a reconstruction plan that brings real benefits to the Iraqi people, and take the steps necessary to hold credible elections next year -- we could begin to withdraw U.S. forces starting next summer and realistically aim to bring all our troops home within the next four years."
35 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
Homers_pet_monkey	Posted - 10/02/2004 : 15:24:29 quote: Originally posted by hammerhands Homer: America, take a good look at your beloved candidates. They�re nothing but hideous space reptiles. [unmasks them] Hey I'm just his monkey! Help me! He keeps making me post!
darwin	Posted - 10/01/2004 : 10:07:41 True enough. I don't trust Gallup polling. I simply cut and pasted a number of polls. We'll see early next week what effect the debate had on people's preferences for President.
harringk	Posted - 10/01/2004 : 09:37:53 quote: Originally posted by darwin according to a CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll... Funny how you'll quote the Gallup poll when it supports your position, but trash it as partisan and useless when it says something you don't like. Typical liberal...
darwin	Posted - 10/01/2004 : 09:27:31 It appears more Americans thought Kerry did better than Bush in a debate about a subject that is Bush's supposed strength From http://politicalwire.com/ Sen. John Kerry "fared better" than President Bush in Thursday night's presidential debate, according to a CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll. Of those who watched, 53% said Kerry did the better job, compared with 37% who favored Bush. "Kerry's chief strength: 60 percent said he expressed himself more clearly than Bush did." The ABC News poll shows Kerry "won the first debate and with it a shot at reinvigorating his campaign for the presidency." Kerry was the winner 45% to 36%. A CBS News instant poll of uncommitted voters found Kerry won 43% to 28%. A key observation: "Bush appeared perturbed when Kerry leveled some of his charges, scowling at times and looking away in apparent disgust at others. Kerry often took notes when the president spoke." The American Research Group also found Kerry the overwhelming winner, with two survey panels saying Kerry was the victor. Panel 1 was 51% to 41%, Panel 2 was 52% to 42%. A Democracy Corps survey found Kerry "decisively won tonight's presidential debate by a margin of 45 to 32 percent.
n/a	Posted - 10/01/2004 : 09:15:27 meanie I look like the kind of guy who pimps his sister not just for the money, but because he hates her
The Champ	Posted - 10/01/2004 : 06:44:34 O yea, terrifying , im gona go lock myself in a closet for a while until this whole thing blows over.
n/a	Posted - 10/01/2004 : 06:36:30 How horribly frightening I look like the kind of guy who pimps his sister not just for the money, but because he hates her
apl4eris	Posted - 10/01/2004 : 06:33:00 quote: Originally posted by The Champ Bush definatly didnt get trounced, i thought it was very close, but kerry came out a little bit on top...hes clearly out of his mind and is not fit to run anything. And yet he still came out better than Bush? Scary. I thought Kerry verbally spanked Bush multiple times. He still could have done much better, but Kerry was well-reasoned and collected, while Bush was flustered and agitated, and acted like a child arguing with his wiser father and throwing a whiny, repetitive, irrational temper tantrum. Both candidates stretched the truth, neither had impressive oratory, and neither party holds my allegiance, but that debate left no question as to who will be the better Statesman and Commander in Chief. You buttered your bread, now lie in it.
hammerhands	Posted - 10/01/2004 : 06:32:37 Homer: America, take a good look at your beloved candidates. They�re nothing but hideous space reptiles. [unmasks them] [audience gasps in terror] Kodos: It�s true, we are aliens. But what are you going to do about it? It�s a two-party system; you have to vote for one of us. [murmurs] Man1: He�s right, this is a two-party system. Man2: Well, I believe I�ll vote for a third-party candidate. Kang: Go ahead, throw your vote away. [Kang and Kodos laugh out loud]
n/a	Posted - 10/01/2004 : 06:27:05 quote: Originally posted by Cheeseman1000 I think our third party (although suffering from delusions of grandeur) is a lot more effective and prominent than that in America. "You ever seen a man say goodbye to a shoe?" "Yes, once..." Our second party didn't fare so well in the Hartlepool by-election though, totally relegated to the fourth party with Lib Dem's second, although oddly UKIP third, bloody bunch of bloody nutters. Ans the Gap between Labour and Lib Dem wasn't huge either I look like the kind of guy who pimps his sister not just for the money, but because he hates her
The Champ	Posted - 10/01/2004 : 06:15:52 Bush definatly didnt get trounced, i thought it was very close, but kerry came out a little bit on top, regardless, kerry said some pretty moronic things, such as how he would deal with iraq.. IF he actually believes that the rest of the world will come on side because he says it was wrong and the US are losing so its up to the world now hes clearly out of his mind and is not fit to run anything.
n/a	Posted - 10/01/2004 : 01:23:15 Bush got trounced then? I look like the kind of guy who pimps his sister not just for the money, but because he hates her
darwin	Posted - 10/01/2004 : 00:25:08 My reaction to the debate (I'm a Kerry supporter)
Daisy Girl	Posted - 09/30/2004 : 18:27:04 Anyone watching the debates??? We have to go meet someone for dinner :( so I will miss out on most of it.... I think that they are both doing well. Bush's makeup is the wrong shade and makes him look redish orange. I think Kerry is comming across as very confident.... and making great points. Bush although I don't agree with his reasoning is doing well too.
Daisy Girl	Posted - 09/29/2004 : 18:43:23
n/a	Posted - 09/29/2004 : 18:20:32 does this answer your question? I look like the kind of guy who pimps his sister not just for the money, but because he hates her
Daisy Girl	Posted - 09/29/2004 : 17:33:34 Ok this might be opening up a can of worms but what do those outside the US think about the state of US politics today???
Cheeseman1000	Posted - 09/29/2004 : 15:44:09 quote: Originally posted by Tre quote: Originally posted by Cheeseman1000 I can't imagine why anyone would vote for the Conservative party. "You ever seen a man say goodbye to a shoe?" "Yes, once..." Because they're old fuddy duddy capitalistic meglomaniacs? I look like the kind of guy who pimps his sister not just for the money, but because he hates her Ah yes, I forgot the Daily Mail factor. Its a similar situation in the States I guess: most people with an ounce of intelligence couldn't even consider voting for Dubya, but they're outweighed by the sheer volume of All-American Morons. Would this be right? "You ever seen a man say goodbye to a shoe?" "Yes, once..."
n/a	Posted - 09/29/2004 : 14:34:15 quote: Originally posted by Cheeseman1000 I can't imagine why anyone would vote for the Conservative party. "You ever seen a man say goodbye to a shoe?" "Yes, once..." Because they're old fuddy duddy capitalistic meglomaniacs? I look like the kind of guy who pimps his sister not just for the money, but because he hates her
Homers_pet_monkey	Posted - 09/29/2004 : 11:21:31 I hope they do too, but I can't see it. Help me! He keeps making me post!
Cheeseman1000	Posted - 09/29/2004 : 11:20:34 I reckon its feasible that the Lib Dems could get second party status before too long. Unlikely but not impossible. I can't imagine why anyone would vote for the Conservative party. "You ever seen a man say goodbye to a shoe?" "Yes, once..."
n/a	Posted - 09/29/2004 : 11:14:48 our third party is the party I like, I think they'd have a better chance if it wasn't for all this 'safe voting' business I look like the kind of guy who pimps his sister not just for the money, but because he hates her
Homers_pet_monkey	Posted - 09/29/2004 : 11:14:10 Yes true, but it would never get into power. Help me! He keeps making me post!
Cheeseman1000	Posted - 09/29/2004 : 11:09:28 I think our third party (although suffering from delusions of grandeur) is a lot more effective and prominent than that in America. "You ever seen a man say goodbye to a shoe?" "Yes, once..."
Homers_pet_monkey	Posted - 09/29/2004 : 11:03:22 Just like here. Help me! He keeps making me post!
ramona	Posted - 09/29/2004 : 11:00:49 quote: Originally posted by Tre and this may also b a dumb question but are the elections in America a strictly two horse race? In theory they are not b/c the ballot always has a few others on it (independants & Green party spring to mind) but I don't think anyone thinks that someone other than the 2 front horses is going to win. _____________________________________________________________________ No one I ever knew, or have spoken to, resembles you This is good or bad, all depending on my general mood
Homers_pet_monkey	Posted - 09/29/2004 : 10:57:49 quote: Originally posted by Tre and this may also b a dumb question but are the elections in America a strictly two horse race? I look like the kind of guy who pimps his sister not just for the money, but because he hates her They race horses to decide who wins? Seriously though, what is John Kerry offering? Is he gonna be that much better than Bush? Help me! He keeps making me post!
vilainde	Posted - 09/29/2004 : 08:20:00 quote: Originally posted by Cheeseman1000 Are you George Bush? "You ever seen a man say goodbye to a shoe?" "Yes, once..." I don't think George W Bush makes any decision by himself. Denis
Ebb Vicious	Posted - 09/29/2004 : 08:08:24 in theory no but in practice yes.
n/a	Posted - 09/29/2004 : 05:12:02 and this may also b a dumb question but are the elections in America a strictly two horse race? I look like the kind of guy who pimps his sister not just for the money, but because he hates her
Cheeseman1000	Posted - 09/28/2004 : 11:09:12 Are you George Bush? "You ever seen a man say goodbye to a shoe?" "Yes, once..."
Ebb Vicious	Posted - 09/28/2004 : 11:07:09 a much better system would be making me supreme tyrannical overlord of the universe for eternity and then i will make all the decisions.
Cheeseman1000	Posted - 09/28/2004 : 11:01:12 You're not allowed to vote from in jail, I'm not sure about what the deal is if you're punishment is pending, or you have a suspended sentence or something. I'm pretty sure that if you're in the free world, you can vote. You can also be disenfranchised if you're judged mentally unsound. The voting system in the UK is a bit different. There are several hundred constituencies, each with a representative member of Parliament (MP) voted for in the general elections. The party with the majority of constituencies (seats) makes up the presiding government. It seems like less people's opinions are discounted due to geographic location (as mentioned in that article), and seems a bit more fair all around. Not perfect though. "You ever seen a man say goodbye to a shoe?" "Yes, once..."
Daisy Girl	Posted - 09/28/2004 : 10:49:39 how do they handle it in the UK?
Cheeseman1000	Posted - 09/28/2004 : 10:48:59 That's pretty appalling - here was me thinking a prison sentence or other punishment was designed to pay the convicted party's price to society. "You ever seen a man say goodbye to a shoe?" "Yes, once..."

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