| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| The King Of Karaoke |
Posted - 08/25/2004 : 19:05:20
Dangerous, freedom haters dear.
Now step aside sweetie, I'm watching THE O'RIELLY FACTOR.
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/08/19/1354257
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| 35 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| apl4eris |
Posted - 08/30/2004 : 07:00:24
Protesting gives a clue to the general public AND the government/corporations/etc. that there are many people who feel strongly enough about a cause to be there and are willing to show their faces to the world and the face-recognition software. The vast majority of people that end up in protests are very active in their cause outside of that event, and are there to bear witness.
I watched the protests in NYC yesterday -on CSPAN- and I saw thousands of people. About 6 or 7 of them played to the camera to get attention, and it was quite obvious that everyone was aware the camera was there - they were walking right past a media pit.
The major power that we the people have to wage against a government that is working against our Constitutional laws, is peaceful protest -massive action in numbers. If we were to allow our only image of others like us to be portrayed by the biased media, we would lose our drive and begin to feel outnumbered, disenfranchised, and ostracized. I'm tired of getting the horrible impression that this country, this world, is only full of lazy, selfish, ignorant, willfully blind idiots. Protesting in numbers is there to give hope and energy and inspiration to ourselves and each other. If that spark is kept alive or ignited in another mind, more work will be done. Seeing those hundreds of thousands of people marching peacefully to give a face to the millions of dissenters in this country was invigorating, and it gave me hope.
Obviously protest has to go hand in hand with other more direct action. Protest serves the purpose of telling others -it IS important - I DO care - I've been DOING something and I'm here to let you know you're not alone - this is my face and I'm fearless. If we allow our only means of forcefully moving against the daily crush of the opposition, to be drowned out by naysayers, defined by its fringes, silenced by absurd bleating arguments "Four legs good, two legs baaaad!", then we will be lost. |
| Newo |
Posted - 08/30/2004 : 05:29:48
For what it´s worth, I don´t think protesting is of any real value anymore, just gives the protestees a chance to send in agent provocateurs then the po-lice to wallop the hell out of everybody. Why leave it to just one march to tell everybody how you feel about certain conditions anyway? Look what happened with the poll-tax fiasco in England: simple refusal to comply withered that one away.
-Owen |
| n/a |
Posted - 08/30/2004 : 04:32:27
quote:
Originally posted by Ebb Vicious
you're too dumb for me, sorry. i'm bored of explaining things to you.
Gee you have a short attention span, like one of those ADD children who say fuck alot to get mommy to look at them, bored or run out of things to say?
the room smelled like cupids gym
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| The King Of Karaoke |
Posted - 08/29/2004 : 23:10:30
I'm not sure what's being said here. Probably do to the fact that I have'nt read any of it. I do know there's an argument going on though.
For some I'm sure protesting helps give a feeling of importance in the world. Protesting does not send a effective message to the people in power. But hopefully it may get someone to focus thier attention on something othet than their television for a minute.
-------------------------------------
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If you have you will never forget that moment!
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| Ebb Vicious |
Posted - 08/29/2004 : 23:00:48
you're too dumb for me, sorry. i'm bored of explaining things to you. |
| n/a |
Posted - 08/29/2004 : 09:07:56
Oh my oh me!
If by not listening I mean not agreeing in total then yes, but obviously I'm paying attention or I would not be posting would I? Your posts often give off a very narrow minded view of things, the world according to ebb is not the world we all see (thank fuck) but who are you to say what is right and what is wrong?
Now are we talking about protestation in the marches and banners form or all forms of protestation? Is my not buying nestle/shell/GSK products a form of protestiation that is pathetic? Is it wrong that I wore a "No War" badge last year? Is it wrong of me to sign petitions that come my way about the things I feel strongly about? I've never been on a march, or stomped around with a banner, I've tried to do the things in my tre-bubble that I think are important to deal with. I consider my vote carefully, I have written to many people about things in my area that are crazy, just last week I had to go round my suburbs bus stops because I found a fucking BNP poster with little leaflets on one of them. I've complained about this and has anything changed? has it fuck. Have you ever tried educating these narrow minded fuckwits who have no sense of the world outside themselves, who couldn't give a flying fuck about the war, racism, sexism, the pollution, the enviromental rape and pillage,the multinationals fucking people over, the drug companies charging the fucking earth in developing countries? They don't fucking care! As long as their TV works and they aren't paying much money for their generic high sugar food and their animal tested cosmetics and their brand trainers are expensive but not too expensive and their 3 cars have a tank full of petrol they could not give a shit. Protest is not for these people, banners education whatever, they will never fucking change. But you yourself can only know so many people, if your educating some of them works they might pass it on to some people they know and word of mouth will go round yes, but what about those people who are susceptible to understanding the causes that are important and are not hearing it? Is protestation not bringing it to their attention?
And coddling, no you aren't doing that, and no one expects you to, however, cutting through bullshit and insulting people like a dribbling tourettes machine isn't quite the same.
"......might already know everything you have to say?" Get over yourself ebb, and your superiority complex, it was once highly amusing and is now quite frankly a little stale
I've said before, I'm perfectly happy to trade insults for a bit, but you should also consider that other people have viewpoints that differ and are not necessarily wrong
the room smelled like cupids gym
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| Ebb Vicious |
Posted - 08/29/2004 : 08:44:50
except that was my original point, protesting doesn't educate anyone who doesn't already know what you're talking about. the same people who won't listen to you when you advise them on what to buy certainly aren't going to listen to you when you are marching around like a menstruating militia.
i'm sorry you have no imagination, but one of the causes i feel strongly about is people shouldn't drive SUVs. i know that throwing a tantrum at car dealerships or at the WHQ for the big three isn't going to accomplish anything. it's stupid and a waste of time, and would do more damage than good.
so instead, i try to inspire change in the people around me by educating them -- in a non-annoying way -- about why driving an SUV is LESS safe than driving a car. they already know it's wasteful, they obviously don't care about that.
if you really want things to change you have to figure out how to get people to change their minds. it's not an easy thing. and while it may make you feel better to come up with clever slogans and scrawl them onto big boards on the end of sticks, it is worthless today.
the forum tries to educate me? no just a couple of you morons once in a while think you know better for whatever reason. maybe it is inconceivable that someone who refuses to wear kid gloves with you might already know everything you have to say? sorry we're all adults -- or close enough -- here, i am not going to coddle to you.
change doesn't happen overnight. do you think the modern atmosphere which is so much more accepting of homosexuality than just 15 years ago was caused at all by people marching or parading? no. it happened by real social education. more people coming out, and even more people refusing to accept bigotry.
whatever, i know you dipshits aren't going to listen to me no matter what i say. just trying to kill a little time this morning. |
| n/a |
Posted - 08/29/2004 : 08:34:51
Right, mental midgets questioning the grandiose sweeping statements of retards?, hurrah for mental midgetmania!
Vote for who? I've been voting for the party I believe in and there are still a number of fuckwits in this country who play the safe vote game and keep any party that would make a difference out. I've been considering what I buy for years and do my boycotts make a huge difference to the companies? No. I tell everyone I know why thay shouldn't buy certain things, do they pay attention? Some do, but are our combined efforts making much of a difference, well no. Write to who? My MP? because they pay very much attention when I do? The press? They have their own bias, and their own agenda so that gets ignored. Real social change, right.
Surely you can see that some forms of protest are bringing issues to the attentions of people who might pass over it if they read a couple of lines in a paper or heard it from their friend. I'll admit, some protestors are total cocks, but educating the ignorant has to be valid in any form.
Like how the forum tries to educate you little ebb.
the room smelled like cupids gym
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| Ebb Vicious |
Posted - 08/29/2004 : 08:26:32
hahaha i knew you mental midgets would reply like that.
oh well gee whiz i dunno, how about maybe with your vote? how about with the way you choose to spend your money? how about with the written word?
how about real social change?
just about anything besides throwing a tantrum with a bunch of picket signs like a gaggle of little babies. |
| apl4eris |
Posted - 08/28/2004 : 10:51:52
quote:
Originally posted by Ebb Vicious
well like for instance the stupid WTO protesters. they aren't going to get big corporations to change their policies that way. there are better ways to get the changes they want that will actually work.
What are some better ways you know of to make a difference?
WTO issues, anti-war/foreign policy, etc.? |
| n/a |
Posted - 08/28/2004 : 10:46:57
for example......
 I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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| Ebb Vicious |
Posted - 08/28/2004 : 10:35:55
quote:
Originally posted by Carolynanna
What exactly do you mean when you say "difference" ebb?
well like for instance the stupid WTO protesters. they aren't going to get big corporations to change their policies that way. there are better ways to get the changes they want that will actually work. but they choose to cause a big scene because they want attention, unfortunately it gets the wrong kind of attention for the cause and ends up doing more harm than good in the public image.
imho, 99.9% of public protesters do so because they want attention and have a deseprate need to feel important in some way. most of the time it's just going to make a lot of people dismiss you out of hand, and rarely will it actually inspire change.
there are better ways to go about it, but they don't involve drawing attention to yourself, so most "activists" aren't really interested. |
| slaveish |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 21:10:22
All of the anti-war protests that took place last year were peaceful. That's the idea. Many, many of the same people (myself included) will be marching on Sunday to show our solidarity against the Bush REGIME. I expect that that march (which has been refused by the city a suitable place to assemble and rally) will also be peaceful. We're not the warmongers. We're the peaceful ones.
Anyone else attending the march on Sunday? Should be spectacular. |
| The King Of Karaoke |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 15:39:15
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200408/200408270030.html
-------------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/j_vaughn/bigfoot.html
Have you looked into the eye's of a RankStranger?
If you have you will never forget that moment!
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/
|
| apl4eris |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 13:09:39
On that note, there is a documentary you can rent now called "Weather Underground", which in part covers the infiltration and redirection of a student organization that only conducted peaceful protests against the Vietnam war. It was drawn and quartered by FBI infiltration which advocated violent or criminal action, causing a rift in the group. The remains became the Weather Underground, and had several FBI agents as members. There were documents that were retrieved and leaked, which provided evidence that the FBI made it a common practice to cause disturbances and initiate violence to destroy and disable groups (including the Black Panthers).
It's a very interesting story, which looks at the phenomenon from many angles, including an objective eye on the members that became zealots due to a sense of urgency and despair. It's scary what people will do when they feel the cause is more important than the means. Which I feel is what is occurring here, with the destruction of civil rights and freedoms in the cause of security.
It is really an amazing documentary -maybe the best I have ever seen. It's a cautionary tale that applies to any side of any issue, and it does an incredible job of telling a story that no one knew before. I would say that it is most timely, and I highly recommend it.
http://www.upstatefilms.org/weather/ |
| darwin |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 12:55:53
[tin foil hat] It would be in the best interests of the Republicans if some of the demonstrators became violent this weekend and next week. Thus, one could expect right-wing provocateurs to whip up that activity. [/tin foil hat]
PS Some protestors with a more arachists bent are capable of being violent all on their own. |
| Mroocore |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 12:39:32
this is not a partisan issue. the american political process has become completely beholden to corporate interest and now cannot preform the jobs that our elected politicians hold, which is to represent the people.
protest and activist groups try to use their freedoms to show the general public their stance on individual issues. problem is that one bad apple ruins the entire pie. there is a portion of all activist groups that are interested in direct action which often means destruction of private property. that has nothing to do with our 1st admendment rights, and those that go outside the law should be punished.
that being said there is no way americans can allow some kind of martial law gestapo to control our freedoms, or as it appears now lack there of. |
| VoVat |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 12:24:03
quote:
Am I correct in believing that Fox News is banned in Canada?
And Rupert Murdoch is Australian or something, isn't he?
It's certainly possible that these people really DID have a reason to be investigated, and they're leaving out that part of the story. On the other hand, don't the Patriot Act and other unconstitutional laws allow the FBI to investigate people even when they DON'T suspect anything? Besides, if the Constitution is ignored for people who really are doing something wrong, that can start a slippery slope.
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
| Daisy Girl |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 10:57:50
quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
Can it be possible that I am the only one here who realizes that we know next to nothing about just what is motivating the FBI? What is clear is that folks posting here have no need for another side to the issue. No, they're quite content to slam away in the most extreme terms so long as they think the info supports their prejudices.
Honestly... I think your view point is interesting. Actually the way I see the issue is that I am pro freedom of speech and anti big brother...but maybe I am a little complacent and a little too content in accepting the loss of civil librities because I feel pretty powerless. I didn't frame this in a partisan context. Also it makes me wonder if this is building into another 1968 DNC... so it's not political.
Ebb.. I bet some are pretty selfish. But the way I look at protesters is I might not agree with what they are protesting... eg anti-choice activists... they could even protest the Pixies music...but I support all those protesters right to do so as long as it's non violent. It's just cool someone cares enough to protest. |
| Carolynanna |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 10:46:06
What exactly do you mean when you say "difference" ebb?
"The things that will destroy us are:
politics without principle; pleasure without conscience; wealth without work;
knowledge without character; business without morality; science without humanity,
and worship without sacrifice." |
| BLT |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 10:38:34
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/bovard2.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/manion/manion52.html |
| floop |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 10:08:55
you're right ebb. it's better just to do nothing and hope things will change on their own.
ist es möglich für ein quesadilla skrotum zu lecken? beim sprechen der quesadillas von LBF, ja. ja in der tatheheheheheheehehee! |
| Ebb Vicious |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 09:52:41
to me the term "activist" makes me think of someone who is conceited and is possibly dellusioned into thinking he actually makes a difference. |
| apl4eris |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 09:50:20
I don't think I misunderstood you.
quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
What is clear is that folks posting here have no need for another side to the issue. No, they're quite content to slam away in the most extreme terms so long as they think the info supports their prejudices.
I don't have a prejudice, and you just reitterated that people are making assumptions based on their political leanings.
quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
What I meant is that...so far all we have heard are complaints from those with no love for the administration, to put it mildly.
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| Erebus |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 09:40:49
apl, no, I was not at all thinking in terms of the parties. What I meant is that is entirely possible that what the FBI is doing is prudent and justifiable, but that so far all we have heard are complaints from those with no love for the administration, to put it mildly.
I am not so sure that the ratio of power to security is as out of whack as you suggest.
Funny how you and I sometimes seem to misunderstand one another. For example, I sincerely don't understand what "assumption" you think I might be making. I simply meant that there is clearly an untold side to this story and that despite that omission many people here seem eager to draw conclusions. |
| apl4eris |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 09:23:07
Erebus, maybe you are assuming that I think things would be any different with a "Democrat" in office? If that is the case, please don't assume, because I don't think it makes for a very healthy debate.
I see it as more of a good cop bad cop situation. I like smaller government. The activities going on right now are following the (to my mind and others') unconstitutional portions of the Patriot Act, and other provisions associated with it. They are indicative of a government that has been given too much power in the name of security. |
| Erebus |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 09:20:02
quote:
Originally posted by mattb
quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
I really can't understand how anyone can still support Bush and his cronies.
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo.
Get them to stop watching CNN and Fox news and there might be a chance they won't. I wish everyone in the US could watch Canadian or any other foreign news for just one day.
Am I correct in believing that Fox News is banned in Canada? If so, what does that say about the open-mindedness of Canadians and about the confidence of the Canadian government and press that their own propaganda ministry can withstand alternative views?
http://www.proudtobecanadian.ca/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=898&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
"When, I wondered, will we get Fox News in Canada?
The answer may be never.
The CRTC does not think it wise to allow such stuff on Canadian television.
It might threaten "the Canadian way," disturb our "distinct Canadian viewpoint," imperil the whole Canadian psyche, causing voters in metro Toronto to do strange things -- like vote Tory.
So we are being sheltered from subversive conservatism.
The government's newspaper, the Globe and Mail, assures us that only the more imbecilic Americans watch Fox News."
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| Erebus |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 09:12:56
Can it be possible that I am the only one here who realizes that we know next to nothing about just what is motivating the FBI? What is clear is that folks posting here have no need for another side to the issue. No, they're quite content to slam away in the most extreme terms so long as they think the info supports their prejudices. |
| The King Of Karaoke |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 08:33:31
Here's a hint.
-------------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/j_vaughn/bigfoot.html
Have you looked into the eye's of a RankStranger?
If you have you will never forget that moment!
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/
|
| BLT |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 08:24:03
However I don't believe for a minute that Bush is making all the decisions. There are people behind him pushing the buttons. Who they are, I don't know. |
| PsychicTwin |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 08:14:09
c'mon everyone, Bush is doing the work of God Almighty. how could you question THAT?
You gotta trust a man who runs a country according to his fervent religious beliefs. The man is a bonafide aristocrat
(four more years of this shit and we are sooo screwed) |
| Newo |
Posted - 08/27/2004 : 05:03:39
We´re partying like it´s 1939 too.
-Owen |
| Daisy Girl |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 22:51:40
wow instead of 2004 it is seeming more like 1984. thanks for filling me in. |
| n/a |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 16:15:45
He should have it printed on a T shirt.
He's not a popular man really
I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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| VoVat |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 15:27:32
I don't think it's fair to judge all TV based on the merits (or lack thereof) of FOX News and the like.
People claim that the media spin things to make Bush look dumb and/or evil. I think he does a good enough job of that on his own. I don't need any liberal media to tell me that Bush is a religious zealot, a warmonger, an anti-intellectual, and a homophobe. In fact, he seems to be PROUD of these things.
Cattle in Korea / They can really moo. |
