| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Adnan_le_Terrible |
Posted - 04/12/2004 : 06:34:58
I'm really fed up with people quoting Kurt Cobain.
He didn't seem like a very relevant guy to me. Why should we all be concerned about his influences, like the Pixies were good just because he liked them?
Come on, he shot himself, that is really tragic. But the media needed a christic figure to sell T-shirts, so they invented all that shit. Hell, even his suicide was a perfect product for the bored western middle-class youth.
When your hair is colored in orange, either you're David Bowie, or you're a moron who wants to draw attention.
It's just crazy how all that grunge stuff was a swindle. Wearing dirty jeans and flanelle shirts...and playing simplistic hard rock. Every time I watch a Nirvana video I feel like seeing a reality show about self destruction.
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| 35 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| the tolerant |
Posted - 04/15/2004 : 11:22:51
just watched top of the pops 2 on bbc2.
nirvana doin the infamous teen spirit with the band fuckin around and kurt takin the piss with his singin
god i love that band! didnt need reminding but sure put a smile on my face.
load up on drugs, kill ya friends!
for the disbelievers and kurt cinics, i'm glad they existed.
been cool if frank had written all apologies or aneurysm but he didnt. kurt cobain did. and i'll always be thankful for that. |
| gracie |
Posted - 04/15/2004 : 11:00:04
There is alot of misconception about whether or not Kurt wanted to be famous. Certainly at the time he made alot of it and "only wanted to be as famous as the Pixies or Sonic Youth", but in that Charles Cross autobiography it stated that actually Kurt did want fame and complained when Teen Spirit wasn't played enough on MTV.
At the end of the day he moved from Sub Pop to Geffen for a reason, and it wasn't to get less famous. He also did alot of press with Courtney (the sassy article springs to mind)which he wasn't forced to do by the record companies etc.
I think alot of good points have been made in this thread and El Barto is right, love them or hate them you cannot deny that Nirvana was the biggest band of the 90's and they have had a huge influence on music today.
I myself do love them but as i said ealier that has been coloured in recent years by all the other bullshit.
At the time of the suicide i felt betrayed (i had no right to i know but i was only 13) and also felt that he was a coward to kill himself when he had a baby. I realise now how desparate he must have been but i still have unresolved feelings about it. |
| VoVat |
Posted - 04/15/2004 : 02:09:27
I have to say I've never been a Nirvana fan. Admittedly, I haven't heard that many of their songs, but what I have heard didn't really thrill me, and didn't have any impact on my own personal musical universe. But it did for many other people, and I'm not going to try to tell them they're wrong. Nor am I going to say it's wrong to quote Cobain occasionally, or anything along those lines. But I will say that a lot of the "voice of a generation" stuff seems to point to the inability to separate the artist from the art that is rampant in our culture. If you like Cobain's music, it makes sense to idolize him as a songwriter, but that doesn't mean you have to idolize him as a person. Indeed, choosing a depressed drug addict who killed himself as your role model, or the spokesman for your generation, probably isn't the best idea.
I've never totally understood the part about not wanting to be successful. No one FORCED Cobain to become famous, did they? I mean, I can sort of understand wanting to have your music heard without the rest of the mess that often goes with it, but still.
As for the "ripping off the Pixies" thing, that just strikes me as ridiculous. I get the impression that most of the people who accuse Nirvana of that are taking Cobain's own words out of context. Being influenced by another band does not a rip-off make. I think the Pixies were better, and yeah, they came first. But that doesn't mean they should receive the credit for Nirvana's work. I mean, if you're going to go down that road, the Pixies were influenced by plenty of bands themselves.
Join the Culf of Buttoms / Correctly spelled cults are so passé. |
| IceCream |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 22:25:32
I'm not denying the impact Nirvana had on rock music - I'm questioning it. Yes, Smells Like Teen Spirit was an incredibly catchy song. Yes, it "expressed the large majority of teenagers' feelings at that time". Yes, it "took influences and commercialized them". It was a huge hit that took all the feelings of the teenage generation and it was rocking and hard and yet it had so much emotion and i'm sure so many people 'relate' to I feel stupid.....and it was dark and deppressed but people could ROCK out with it.......
Is the song any better than FB "Whatever Happened to Pong"?
 Join the Cult of Pi - It's just 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097.... |
| El Barto |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 16:16:42
Tough fucking crowd. Who cares what he did in his spare time. This isn't what made him great. It's music. It's not politics, it's not rocket science. It's fucking music. As much as you hate them or think they're shit or disregard them, they're not going to be erased from history.
 "Join the Cult of Brit / And let your oral hygiene go out the window." |
| GypsyDeath |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 14:43:15
quote:
Originally posted by Homers_pet_monkey
Hey, you know what I like to do sometimes?
Listen to Kurt's music. Works for me.
Other people can keep all the bullshit (hair colour, suicide notes, heroin overdose) and discuss it forever as far as I'm concerned. Nirvana were the last great band. Simple as. Some people will disagree 'cos music is full of differing opinions, and some people think the Pixies are shit. I can't even say they are missing out on something 'cos they probably get what I get from Nirvana and the Pixies, out of some other music. Fair enough, but I love them and I love them with all of heart.
At least Nirvana are creating discussion. Pity the bands that are SO bad that nobody talks about them.
For those who wish Nirvana would go away forever. Aint gonna happen. They are here for good (not physically, obviously), like all great bands. You'll be talking about them for a long time yet.
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!!
Best [point made here so far.
And no, he didnt kill himself because of JUST media pressure, there were a hundred and one reasons why he did it. ONe being because he did not want Francis to grow up and see what he had become. he was ashamed of himself, and didnt want to have that influence on his daughter.Maybe not the best way to do it, but thats what he thought was the best way about his situation,. Different people deal with things different ways,.
And andy! No courtney bashing!!!!!
Boys go to Jupiter, Get more stupider,
Girls go to Mars, Become rock stars
Wanna fuck and fight in the basement? |
| Homers_pet_monkey |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 10:42:39
Hey, you know what I like to do sometimes?
Listen to Kurt's music. Works for me.
Other people can keep all the bullshit (hair colour, suicide notes, heroin overdose) and discuss it forever as far as I'm concerned. Nirvana were the last great band. Simple as. Some people will disagree 'cos music is full of differing opinions, and some people think the Pixies are shit. I can't even say they are missing out on something 'cos they probably get what I get from Nirvana and the Pixies, out of some other music. Fair enough, but I love them and I love them with all of heart.
At least Nirvana are creating discussion. Pity the bands that are SO bad that nobody talks about them.
For those who wish Nirvana would go away forever. Aint gonna happen. They are here for good (not physically, obviously), like all great bands. You'll be talking about them for a long time yet.
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!! |
| Cheeseman1000 |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 10:27:24
Good point andy. Its like when you see pregnant women smoking or something. Probably a harsh thing to say, but its basically selfishness.
 "Join The Cult Of Wormy Cheese Man/In Ten Words Or Less" |
| misleadtheworld |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 10:21:21
Yep. Aren't the main two causes of suicides, depression and drugs? He did have both....
 It's getting colder.... |
| Adnan_le_Terrible |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 09:54:28
Btw, I really don't think he killed himself because of the pressure of the media etc...I mean, he was a notorious junkie.
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| Newo |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 08:40:28
Nirvana made a lot of music I found touching and brave, but the Generational Spokesmodel stuff was shameless hype and nothing more. Kurt Cobain spoke for the only person he was qualified to speak for, himself.
--
"You one of those right-wing nut outfits?" inquired the diplomatic Metzger.
Fallopian twinkled. "They accuse us of being paranoids."
"They?" inquired Metzger, twinkling also.
"Us?" asked Oedipa.
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| andyn |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 07:49:00
Kurt Cobain was a father - if he couldn't even focus on THAT job to get off skag and sort himself out he was a spineless tosser. And don't even get me started about that poor kid's mother.... |
| bumblebeeboy2 |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 07:25:57
i just find nirvana dull. voice of a generation? not fucking mine.
The Shrine of the Sea Monkey!
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| GypsyDeath |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 05:58:26
agreed
Boys go to Jupiter, Get more stupider,
Girls go to Mars, Become rock stars
Wanna fuck and fight in the basement? |
| Adnan_le_Terrible |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 05:16:00
quote:
Originally posted by GypsyDeath
Good point adnan, but aswith allmusic, it is who people relate to that appeals to them, Kurt found that he had a lot of universal appeal - different people different reasons.
Theres no two ways about it., He was THE voice of the generation, and he expressed the large majority of teenagers feelings at that time. HIs music may not sound today as it did to people then, but he was still a very important part of rock, and cultural history and also the way that society is today.
You say that Kurt isto 'blame' for the mess music is in today, yet is exactly these type of accusations and pressure which were part of the reason he blew his brains out anyway. The guy just wanted to play fucking guitar, and suddenly, every act of the whole generation is his fault!!!! Inagine you were in his position, for one moment.
And bumble, yes they were good. Technically, maybe not in some peoples eyes, but really, come on, their songs just screamed at you, grabbed your heart and pulled it out in front of your face to see. They could express things through their music , and make tunes that people all over the world know. Some people spend their whole lifes without haveing achieved half of that.
I love nirvana. OK, so maybe im not as obsessive as I used tobe, but for like, 3years straight they were ALL id listen too. Because thats what I related to at the time, thats what made me get out of bed in the morning, thats what made pick up a guitar, because i knew inside me, that i was stronger, and i could do it, in the face of everything else saying i couldnt.
SO yeah, I will always love Nirvana for that, and I will always be defensive of them.
Each to their own, but sometimes somethings just need to be debated!
Boys go to Jupiter, Get more stupider,
Girls go to Mars, Become rock stars
Wanna fuck and fight in the basement?
Well, I didn't like their way of being so demostrative, I think. But I'm not saying anything against Nirvana, they should just leave them alone.
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| GypsyDeath |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 04:59:26
Good point adnan, but aswith allmusic, it is who people relate to that appeals to them, Kurt found that he had a lot of universal appeal - different people different reasons.
Theres no two ways about it., He was THE voice of the generation, and he expressed the large majority of teenagers feelings at that time. HIs music may not sound today as it did to people then, but he was still a very important part of rock, and cultural history and also the way that society is today.
You say that Kurt isto 'blame' for the mess music is in today, yet is exactly these type of accusations and pressure which were part of the reason he blew his brains out anyway. The guy just wanted to play fucking guitar, and suddenly, every act of the whole generation is his fault!!!! Inagine you were in his position, for one moment.
And bumble, yes they were good. Technically, maybe not in some peoples eyes, but really, come on, their songs just screamed at you, grabbed your heart and pulled it out in front of your face to see. They could express things through their music , and make tunes that people all over the world know. Some people spend their whole lifes without haveing achieved half of that.
I love nirvana. OK, so maybe im not as obsessive as I used tobe, but for like, 3years straight they were ALL id listen too. Because thats what I related to at the time, thats what made me get out of bed in the morning, thats what made pick up a guitar, because i knew inside me, that i was stronger, and i could do it, in the face of everything else saying i couldnt.
SO yeah, I will always love Nirvana for that, and I will always be defensive of them.
Each to their own, but sometimes somethings just need to be debated!
Boys go to Jupiter, Get more stupider,
Girls go to Mars, Become rock stars
Wanna fuck and fight in the basement? |
| gary13th |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 04:53:23
didnt kurt hate "smells like teen spirit" because it was too commercial ? i cant remember.
i'm not (and never have been) a nirvana fan, though i do like "In Bloom" and "Heart Shaped Box".
----------
They are about, dressed to deceive, architect David Vincent |
| Adnan_le_Terrible |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 03:26:02
quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
Do you guys fail to realize that rock and roll is built on what Nirvana did, i.e. taking influences and commercializing them? Elvis anyone? Beatles anyone? This has been happening since day 1 of rock. Some bands just have the appeal that others don't. Some have the charisma or anti-charisma that others don't. Who wrote Smells Like Teen Spirit? That was Nirvana. Not the Pixies, not Husker Du, not Pearl Jam...Nirvana.
"Join the Cult of Brit / And let your oral hygiene go out the window."
Soooo?
What makes it so important? It's just a song. Not really an exceptional song. The lyrics mean nothing.
True, Kurt had the charisma that others didn't have. But he was not an exceptional songwriter. Rock&Roll is just music, to me, I don't give a fuck about the color of his hair or how he's dressed.
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| bumblebeeboy2 |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 02:43:42
you can't argue they changed music and influenced a lot of bands and movements, but you can argue if they were actually any good... imo.
The Shrine of the Sea Monkey!
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| misleadtheworld |
Posted - 04/14/2004 : 00:31:36
You can't blame him, you can blame the people who exploited him and his music.
It's getting colder.... |
| punji |
Posted - 04/13/2004 : 18:00:12
if it was for kurt their would have never been the raise of bubble- gum pop(ie britney spears and backstreet boys)after grunge faded away. not to mention all the bands that took his style and diluted the music till it became more accessible to sell(ie bush). so you can blame him for the sad state of modern rock.
i am king shit of fuck mountain, why would you fuck with me? -god |
| El Barto |
Posted - 04/13/2004 : 17:50:41
They replayed a bit of a Durst interview for the Nirvana: Three Years...Forever special on MTV. Fred had this to say:
"I would love to have effect on the world the same way Kurt Cobain had on the world"
Luckily, they placed that quote after Kurt Loder said a line about his suicide leaving the music world "much diminished."
"Join the Cult of Brit / And let your oral hygiene go out the window." |
| GypsyDeath |
Posted - 04/13/2004 : 15:50:06
Fred durst actually has kurt on one side, and elvis, on the other side. IT is fucking horrid, i remember when i first saw it, i felt so sorry for kurt! Imagine how manyu people ahve tattoes of him
Boys go to Jupiter, Get more stupider,
Girls go to Mars, Become rock stars
Wanna fuck and fight in the basement? |
| BLT |
Posted - 04/13/2004 : 14:41:36
So what you're saying is that the commercial appeal and success of Nirvana was what made them special? I can see that. I don't dislike them, but musically I've never considered them very unique. I'm probably from too old a generation to have cared much about them, though. |
| El Barto |
Posted - 04/13/2004 : 14:20:41
Do you guys fail to realize that rock and roll is built on what Nirvana did, i.e. taking influences and commercializing them? Elvis anyone? Beatles anyone? This has been happening since day 1 of rock. Some bands just have the appeal that others don't. Some have the charisma or anti-charisma that others don't. Who wrote Smells Like Teen Spirit? That was Nirvana. Not the Pixies, not Husker Du, not Pearl Jam...Nirvana.
"Join the Cult of Brit / And let your oral hygiene go out the window." |
| NimrodsSon |
Posted - 04/13/2004 : 12:06:18
It's very true indeed. I wish I could remember which magazine it is -- one of the guitar ones, maybe Guitar World; or then again, it might have been Spin or Rolling Stone now that I think about it. It might still be on the newsstands.
¡Viva los Católicos! |
| gracie |
Posted - 04/13/2004 : 10:58:45
Thats so funny, what a cock.
You almost feel sorry for him, he just doesn't have a clue. |
| misleadtheworld |
Posted - 04/13/2004 : 09:14:51
Please tell me that's not true. PLEASE.
It's getting colder.... |
| PsychicTwin |
Posted - 04/13/2004 : 08:11:42
quote:
Originally posted by NimrodsSon
This reminds me of something I saw when I was looking in a Guitar World magazine (I think) about a month ago. It had funniest picture (only funny in an ironic sense) -- "Limp Bizkit frontman Fred Durst reveals a tattoo of his idol Kurt Cobain on his chest" -- what a fucking joke!!
¡Viva los Católicos!
you gotta be kidding me!
Kurt would shoot himself in the face again five times over if he knew that.
god I hate Fred Durst. he is such a worthless piece of shit who stands for everything I despise (musically and ideologically) |
| PsychicTwin |
Posted - 04/13/2004 : 08:10:50
quote:
Originally posted by NimrodsSon
This reminds me of something I saw when I was looking in a Guitar World magazine (I think) about a month ago. It had funniest picture (only funny in an ironic sense) -- "Limp Bizkit frontman Fred Durst reveals a tattoo of his idol Kurt Cobain on his chest" -- what a fucking joke!!
¡Viva los Católicos!
you gotta be kidding me!
Kurt would shoot himself in the face again five times over if he knew that.
god I hate Fred Durst. he is such a worthless piece of shit who stands for everything I despise (musically and ideologically) |
| bumblebeeboy2 |
Posted - 04/13/2004 : 03:39:15
quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
Of course everything seems blown out of proportion...I guess it's hard to understand "what's so big about Nirvana" 10 years after. All we have to hold out to are 3 brief years in the limelight. Look at what was popular before Nirvana broke. Look at what was popular after. Enough said. They changed the face of music for the 90s. Love them or hate them, you can't deny the impact they had on music.
"Join the Cult of Brit / And let your oral hygiene go out the window."
right place at the right time a lot of people would argue... there were plenty of bands doing similar at the time, and before nirvana too... however nirvana came along with a commericial grunge-rock sound, had a poster-boy for lead singer.... the kids loved it...
The Shrine of the Sea Monkey!
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| Adnan_le_Terrible |
Posted - 04/13/2004 : 00:11:28
True. I LOVE the Clash.
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| Frog in the Sand |
Posted - 04/13/2004 : 00:06:25
quote:
Originally posted by Adnan_le_Terrible
quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
Look at what was popular after. Enough said. They changed the face of music for the 90s.
"Join the Cult of Brit / And let your oral hygiene go out the window."
I don't think they changed anything. There were bands like Hüsker Dü, Sonic Youth, the Pixies, in the 80s.
First of all there was The Clash.
 "Welcome back to the 10th grade!" |
| Adnan_le_Terrible |
Posted - 04/12/2004 : 23:41:42
quote:
Originally posted by El Barto
Look at what was popular after. Enough said. They changed the face of music for the 90s.
"Join the Cult of Brit / And let your oral hygiene go out the window."
I don't think they changed anything. There were bands like Hüsker Dü, Sonic Youth, the Pixies, in the 80s. Nirvana took that sound and made it more like the Guns and Roses. I find the Stooges way more revolutionary than Nirvana. And it was 20 years before.
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| Little Black Francis |
Posted - 04/12/2004 : 18:51:51
dude, everyone knows Kurt was influenced by the Pixies.. Actually it gets mentioned so much I'm sick of it...
tot zeins mijn vriende |
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