| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dallas |
Posted - 03/11/2004 : 10:22:19
Want to send out my thoughts and prayers to those affected by the multiple attacks today in Spain.
This is another attack on all freedom loving societies. If this is related to Al Queda or more generally Islamism, and you live in a place where you are free to determine your own fate, your own religion (or lack thereof), your country could be in the cross hairs next.
El Dios bendice Espaņa! |
| 31 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Homers_pet_monkey |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 16:07:50
I know what you are saying and people should never underestimate the power of the media (I am not a fan!!! ) but I still think we are in more danger now than say 20 years ago. I am not saying we should all go and hide in a cave somewhere 'cos then terrorism has won (and we'd get eaten by bears), but we should all be aware that we live in slightly more dangerous times than our parents did. I am not scared for myself but I would be pretty heartless not to be concerned for my fellow man.
That said I don't plan to live any differently than I did before 9/11 or the recent attacks, I simply have a belief that attacks may well increase.
Your right about Bush though.
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!! |
| El Barto |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 15:38:27
Contrary to popular 'merican belief, terrorism has always been around. It's just that it's now on the front page of the paper being drilled into us constantly by GWB so that he can use the old "Hey, remember I was the President during the 9/11 attacks! Remember how I said we'd get those guys and all that and made 'mericans feel better about themselves! Yeah, cause only *I* would have been capable of that, so relect me!" Anyway, this wasn't supposed to be a GWB bashing post, but any chance I can take the piss out of that fucker, I will.
So yeah, it just seems more like a big issue today because we're constantly hearing about it. Now, if we heard about the dangers of smoking every day in the media and on the front of the paper, that would be the issue. The media tells us what to think. We're as much at risk of a terrorist attack today than we were on 9/10/01...10 years before that...20 years before that...we're just more aware of it now. Well, that's how I figure it anyway.
 "Join the Cult of Brit / And let your oral hygiene go out the window." |
| Homers_pet_monkey |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 14:04:21
The one thing I would add, which offers little hope, but hope none the less for the short term future, is that after a major terrorist attack, security is stepped greatly. This means that it is much more difficult for a major attack to be carried out soon after. Terrorists would know this of course and would therefore be unlikely to attempt one soon after, so as to not get caught in the act and potentially lose men and therefore possible information about them.
I know the Olympics appear to be a perfect target but I am not so sure they would attempt an attack this obvious so soon. Many people thought that the 2002 World Cup in Japan would be targeted, particularily as Al Queda has targeted Japan for potential future attacks, but the event passed without terrorist related incident.
I hope I am right anyway, though I do see your point and reason for worry.
It's a shame that terrorism is such an interesting topic to discuss. I would much rather not have it as a topic to discuss at all but it exists and we are better off educated about it than not I guess. It's the same with serial killers and war. Such interest comes from such misery, pain and death. I try not to read the papers too much though 'cos they are full of either depressing stories or gossipy rubbish (especially the British press, god I hate them). I feel obliged to though when something this major occurs.
I have often seen and heard the discussion of "Do we need evil in the world" and your instant reaction is always "no". But then you think a little more and I dunno, maybe we do to appreciate the good. I guess it's a discussion that has no real right or wrong. It's just people's own opinions, but I would like to think we don't need evil in this world.
Aw man, this is getting too deep for a music forum. I need to smile. 
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!! |
| astrology |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 13:26:45
thank you all for you support from a spaniard
i have been reading a lot from sevral sources as
www.irakwar.ru
www.whatreallyhappened.com
I amin portugal and entered a shop, talking to the clerk he told me there had been a big bomobing in madrid that had killed nearly 60, i ran to the nearest Cyber to take alook at the press and the thing was worser
the worst thing at all that the goverment and the press was blaming ETA without any fundament, i though at that moment that linking this attacks to Irak war was not very good for them
I personally think that this easy link to al qaeda is looking for a deeper involvement of Spain in this war, last news are that we are going to double our troops there
there is a new that did not get to spanish media and t was that the second takner to load crude from the tikrit area as soon as the pipelines were restored was of an spanish oil co. the same that a year ago were dealing with saddam to set up an oilfield in irak.
A- qaeda terrorism is very useful for the interests of bush goverment as they strike where is more convienient justifying things as the Ptriot act, that only menas a cut in American liberties
I will say also that arab countries allways backed Spain and the Spanish Royal family, when Bush was menazing Syria and iran as next targets in his war, King Juan Carlos flew to Syria and Jordania i gues to say that Spain would never support this attacks.
Thank you for you support, at this moment i personally feel very bad because all these thing as the 9/11 and terrorist attacks on civilians make me feel a puppet in the hands of the powerful, I will wait for an expert study of these attacks to think about whom to blame, but at this moment I can only feel pain for this.
David
porto
Portugal |
| Mroocore |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 13:09:14
Hpm, well put. w/ seperatist groups there is the possibilty of negotiation. their agendas have obtainable goals(land claims, freedoms, sovernty, etc...). their tactics, however are brutal in all meanings of the word.
attacks on soft targets have stop, or more likely be stopped. it seems that with the death and destruction that these attacks have achieved, it will only call for more of the same. terror attacks of any kind are cowardly and evil, but at least military estabilisments are more prepared for these events. i do fear that the Olympics will hold many security challenges and will provide for unlimited terror targets on a world screen. i can only hope that the international community is fully prepared for these upcoming games.
i feel the deepest sorrow for all whose only part in any of this was getting on a train. |
| Homers_pet_monkey |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 11:14:41
I think you have misread some of the posts Thomas. I don't recall anyone blaming the US war on terror for terrorism itself as you suggest. We are quite aware that terrorism has been going on for centuries. Some people are just concerned that the war on terror will only increse the number of attacks, or at least planned attacks. As it was suggested in the papers today, some groups such as ETA may now feel they have to increase their attacks in either frequency, or more likely, damage caused, in order to stand out and be heard.
The thing with groups like the IRA and ETA is that they strive for a goal which could conceivably be reached, although admittedly that would be giving in to terrorism. Al Queda however, just want to disrupt the society that they are not part of ('cos they don't agree with it) by any means possible and therefore they will continue to do it. You can't bargain with Al Queda, they will wage war forever and there will always be a new generation who will fight for their beliefs. Of all the terror groups, they are the ones we should fear the most, if only because they will probably be committing these atrocities forever.
Well that's my view anyway, for what it's worth.
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!! |
| Thomas |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 09:52:13
quote:
Originally posted by Stuart
The people who did this have to be held accountable, the killing of innocent people serves no purpose to their cause, it's just pure barbarism.
I just hope this shit ends soon, not just terrorist attacks in the western world but aggression in the middle east, or anywhere in the world.
To us it serves no purpose, but to a terrorist it makes perfect sense. If they can disrupt your way of life they have succeeded. To a terrorist the number of deaths may not be as important to them as how much they disrupt the economy, travel, tourism, an election, etc.
To blame the US's "War on terror" as the problem is nieve. Terrorism has been going on for decades & probably longer, I'm not an expert and will never clame to be. I understand that it is just about impossible to prevent all or any future attacks but it is nice to know there are people out there trying there hardest.
If we could all learn to live on this planet together it would be great, if not show me the way to Mars.
"Our Love is Rice and Beans and Horses Lard" |
| offerw |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 09:23:09
A very sad time for Spain. I am sure everyone in their right mind is distressed by the news. Spare a thought far all the victims of previous terrorist attacks. The number of dead keep piling up.
No one has an excuse for violence. No war, no terrorist attack has ever been justified. We are supposedly a civilized world!?
Politics? Religion?
NO EXCUSE |
| Steak n Sabre |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 09:06:41
As tragic as this event may be, I'm afraid something even more devastating will occur at the Olympics this summer.
 The Cult of Frank: Standing Up For What's Right |
| Dallas |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 07:01:12
Its not Islam bashing, it bashing those extreme Muslims who promote a culture of death. Death is the goal. The only thing better than dying is taking infidels with you.
Sorry, I won't take a politically correct 'let them have their culture' stance when that culture requires and celebrates the murder of innocents.
Especially after a day like yesterday, lets not encourage people to plunge their heads into the sands. Its time for awareness and discussion about the realities. Realities like the fact that there is a group hellbent on killing anyone who does not practice their extreme version of Islam. |
| ivandivel |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 01:18:01
Must be a sad day for Spain. However, it was a mistake to force the security council to condemn the ETA only a couple of hours after the explotions.
A curiosity perhaps, but the bombs went off 911 days after the world trade center.
Anyway, might be wise to cut out the Islam bashing - there are enough religious and anti-religious wackos on board allready. |
| martha_promise |
Posted - 03/11/2004 : 18:57:08
It's unfathomable that a group of people can still be so barbaric in the 21st century and my heart goes out to the loved ones of those who died today...
...not to politicize this, but I just read an interesting open letter that was written by a Student Committee (SMCCDI) in Iran to the presumed Democratic Nominee, John Kerry. Although 70% of Iranians are very turned on by the thought of Democracy, the "hard-liners" are still in power and are foaming at the mouth with the prospect of Kerry being elected this November. Kerry has been quoted (in an Iranian newspaper)as saying that he would take an "apologetic stance" to the powers that be in these nations. When it's clear that progress is being made in this region. Albeit, very slow, deadly progress.
Iran is the head of the snake.
Anyways here's the link. It's rather long, but interesting for maybe a quick scan.
http://www.daneshjoo.org/article/publish/article_3130.shtml
Again, my sympathy to everyone.
~~Polly-ann drove steel like a man~~ |
| Stuart |
Posted - 03/11/2004 : 17:18:21
quote:
Originally posted by ProverbialCereal
Too bad terrorists don't just fight other terrorist groups. It would be better that way.
 Join the Devil's Workshop / Looking for idle hands to work second shift
I'm sure some people would say that terrorists are fighting terrorists, afterall half the middle east see nations such as the US, Britain, Spain etc etc as international terrorists themselves.
What happened yesterday was nothing short of a disgrace, but unfortunately I think that it is something we will see more of in the near future due the war on terrorism etc etc. The people who did this have to be held accountable, the killing of innocent people serves no purpose to their cause, it's just pure barbarism.
I just hope this shit ends soon, not just terrorist attacks in the western world but aggression in the middle east, or anywhere in the world.
Who's the man that won't cop out when there's danger all about? |
| Adnan_le_Terrible |
Posted - 03/11/2004 : 16:32:27
To all the Spanish people, here in France everyone is deeply sorry and hurt by what happened today.
I just can't understand someone who, for any reason, decides to kill 200 innocent people randomly. I mean, why? How can they do it? If they disagree with Aznar, why do they kill 200 people in the streets? It's really a crazy world we're living in. I mean, it's not one mad guy or something, there are so many of them. There's no religion in the world that justifies that. And I don't see how killing of 200 people can be a political action. It just doesn't make sense. Why can't all the people just be reasonable?
What justifies the action of Al Qaeda? Because of them, many Moroccan guys I know, who study with me in Paris, cannot get a visa for the USA, because of their arabic names. Does that serve islam and/or Arabs? I'm truly afraid that these people basically enjoy killing, and don't really have any objectives except a display of power. If it's the ETA, same question. What will people think of the Basque country after this?
Have some wine, please, don't run away. |
| remig |
Posted - 03/11/2004 : 14:05:18
Oh don't say that.
I take these suburb trains in Paris almost every day to go to work.
We've already suffered of islamic terrorism from Algerie in the early 90's, and I know our secret services and anti-terrorist judges are doing a great job in France against this.
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| Erebus |
Posted - 03/11/2004 : 13:52:12
Not to deflect consideration from the loss of life, assuming the bombings are the work of Al Qaeda, how do people here think this will impact the election? Will voters be more likely to rally to the Aznar government or blame it for the bombings as consequence of support of the Iraq invasion? |
| Dallas |
Posted - 03/11/2004 : 13:34:45
I feel the same way remig, but, I also worry about France. I dont think they will be given any comfort by the Islamists for their stance on the Iraqi liberation.
Take care Europe... |
| Homers_pet_monkey |
Posted - 03/11/2004 : 13:30:35
quote:
Originally posted by ProverbialCereal
This is really terrible. Just the thought of that many people dying within seconds is scary.
Too bad terrorists don't just fight other terrorist groups. It would be better that way.
Join the Devil's Workshop / Looking for idle hands to work second shift
It's not even fighting is it. It's complete cowardice. It makes you have a little more respect for foolish people who actually do, literally, fight to the death. Terrorists are cowards, simple as!!!
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!! |
| remig |
Posted - 03/11/2004 : 13:13:03
In France we are very sad about that. I felt so bad when I learned what had happened in Madrid.
The ETA, wich is mainly suspected by spanish authorities, is a an old terrorist group that claims independancy for Euskadi (pais Vasco or Pays Basque in France) since 35 years (they already killed 800 people).
What is strange it's that they never did such an horror, their biggest terrorist act was the bombing of a mall (21 killed) and they almost 'apologized' for that.
Latest news: they found in a stolen car a tape with islamic verses and 7 detonators (stuff that makes bomb explode), so it's not sure yet it's really ETA.
This week end, national elections for the prime minister should have take place...
If any spanish fans read this, know every french person is with you and we share your pain.
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| Dallas |
Posted - 03/11/2004 : 13:11:50
I also have to take back the 'full retreat' line on Int'l terrorism. This story links the bombings to Al Queda and supposedly they are claiming responsibility.
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=H5XIAHXXMBXVYCRBAEZSFEY?type=worldNews&storyID=4550229§ion=news |
| ProverbialCereal |
Posted - 03/11/2004 : 13:07:31
This is really terrible. Just the thought of that many people dying within seconds is scary.
Too bad terrorists don't just fight other terrorist groups. It would be better that way.
Join the Devil's Workshop / Looking for idle hands to work second shift |
| Dallas |
Posted - 03/11/2004 : 13:07:26
You guys could be right. I think there is hope that it can go the other way, especially if Afghanistan and Iraqi governments succeed.
I know that the old approach did nothing except give the terrorists time and the free reign to attack again and again. Life is much more difficult for the international terrorist crew, thats a good thing IMO.
Also, if we are limiting the discussion to internat'l terrorists, than the evidence suggests that they are in full retreat in any country with a semi-secure border. Iraq is the only playground for them right now and they operate with full knowledge that they are being hunted. |
| TheCroutonFuton |
Posted - 03/11/2004 : 12:57:51
The Oklahoma City bombing and the Nerve Gas Attacks in Japan were both cases of domestic terrorism...
I think what ShakeyShake means is that there's more international terrorism. I think I'd have to agree with that, though, unfortunately. As Homers_pet_monkey said: I hope I'm wrong.
 "Join the Cult of Gunn / And Then You'll Be Destined to be a Rock and Roll Star of Epical Proportions!" |
| Homers_pet_monkey |
Posted - 03/11/2004 : 12:54:16
True indeed but I just feel that perhaps what happened in Iraq will only bring more people to the terrorist's cause. People who would not perhaps have assisted before. Some people just want
ANY excuse to fight, regardless of religion or beliefs.
This is all nothing new, but disturbing none the less.
Oh well, on to happier subjects now. 
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!! |
| Dallas |
Posted - 03/11/2004 : 12:47:19
I'm not disagreeing that there will be more attacks. Or even more sophisticated and deadly attacks. That is the whole premise of the war on terror. Left to their own devices, terrorists will continue to attack and get more ambitious each time. You can look at the history of it all and see the attacks grow. The Oklahoma City bombing raised the ante for groups like Al Queda.
I disagree with any cause and effect with the war on terror. The attacks grew more and more sophisticated and ambitious throughout the 90's culminating with the most sophisticated to date: 9/11. Remember that the US Embassy bombings were also coordinated and took place before 9/11.
Islamists are at war with society as North Americans and Euros and others define it. Free and open societies with secular governments. Populaces who are free to choose their own pursuit of happiness are enemies of Islamists. They are a people who have convinced themselves that it is their duty to kill non-believers (infadels).
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| Homers_pet_monkey |
Posted - 03/11/2004 : 12:32:23
Actually I would agree with Shakey, there will only be more attacks now (from Al Quede anyway) IMO. I hope I am wrong but I don't think I am. There already seems to have been an increase in attacks already, and that's taking into account the extra media attention.
These are troubled times indeed. But then again, aren't they all.
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!! |
| ShakeyShake |
Posted - 03/11/2004 : 12:11:14
quote:
Originally posted by Dallas
Could be your imagination. World Trade Center was bombed twice before the War on Terror. US Embassy's bombed multiple times before war on terror. USS Cole attack. Japanese subway gas attack. Oklahoma City bombing. Eta is unrelated to the war on terror and pre-dates it. Many attacks against the Russians from Islamists, also began before 9/11.
OK,just mu imagination.
You win
"I joined the Cult of this guy / 'cause they took my other picture away |
| Dallas |
Posted - 03/11/2004 : 12:08:31
Could be your imagination. World Trade Center was bombed twice before the War on Terror. US Embassy's bombed multiple times before war on terror. USS Cole attack. Japanese subway gas attack. Oklahoma City bombing. Eta is unrelated to the war on terror and pre-dates it. Many attacks against the Russians from Islamists, also began before 9/11.
If anything, I think that 9/11 showed terrorists how to take a few extremists and exert mass casualties over a population. It takes coordination and extremely soft targets (i.e. unarmed citizens). |
| ShakeyShake |
Posted - 03/11/2004 : 11:59:36
I think their suspicions lie with Eta(?), but as a rule Eta(?) usually give warning before their terrorist acts.It's been likened to Al Queda for being quite well planned.
Is it just my imagination or has the US' war on terrorism just provoked terrorists into more violent acts?
"I joined the Cult of this guy / 'cause they took my other picture away |
| Dallas |
Posted - 03/11/2004 : 11:49:48
Big hit in Madrid. I think the initial suspicions are with the seperatist group. If it is them, they have learned a lot as this would be their most sophisticated attack. Hopefully the authorities will be able to determine what group (if not what individuals) is responsible so that there is no confusion with other terrorist groups. |
| Homers_pet_monkey |
Posted - 03/11/2004 : 10:26:58
I haven't managed to read about it yet but was it not Etta (sic)?
They are the seperatist group that is responsible for a lot of bombings in Spain.
Where abouts in Spain was it?
Hansel and Gretel have formed a band, .....And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Breadcrumbs!!! |
