| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Fissile |
Posted - 01/12/2015 : 09:43:26
I'm taking time off from bashing Kim D. to do something I like even better: Bash Billy Corgan. In the World According to Billy, alt rock was all him, and Kurt Cobain, and nobody else. Click Here >Billy Corgan, legend in his own mind
Humble Billy says:
quote:
"He (Cobain) and I were the top two scribes, and everybody else was a distant third.”
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| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Discoking |
Posted - 12/29/2016 : 21:45:35
they never lost me with adore
not even with machina
 it's educational |
| Carl |
Posted - 12/29/2016 : 04:57:29
I actually only really ever got properly into Gish, and a selection of songs after that. |
| TarTar |
Posted - 12/28/2016 : 21:12:25
Corgan lost me with Adore in the 1990s but I think that album has aged better than the golden era stuff. I now find it much more compelling. It's worth revisiting.
My life is dirt but you seem to make it cleaner... reduce my felony to a misdemeanor |
| johnnyribcage |
Posted - 11/20/2016 : 13:32:59
Thought I'd bring this one back to life, mainly because I only just now saw it - haha.
So... Objectively speaking, Billy is pretty douchey. That said, I am pretty good at separating the personality of an artist from his or her music, if need be. I prefer to associate them closely if I align with them, as it enhances my enjoyment of the music (or acting or painting or whatever I'm experiencing). Maybe that's my disclaimer for the rest of this post. Fortunately people like Ted Nuget make it easy by creating really bad music to go along with their really bad personalities. But some others make it complicated by creating good stuff as the flip-side to their general awfulness as people.
Anyway, like many of you, I too was the core demographic that SP was targeting in the 90s - teenaged, pimply, white kid into grunge rock and angsty stuff. Accordingly, I loved the Pumpkins back in the day. Siamese Dream was my first experience when it came out, and I was on board from the first lick in the Today video. I really liked it. Mellon Collie blew my mind. I was getting into 60s and 70s album rock at the same time - Zeppelin, Beatles, The Who, etc. So the overblown, operatic, pretentious, highly produced SP music really appealed to me, as well as offered a nice change/alternative to the raw approach of Nirvana and others. Which I also loved.
He lost me with Adore, and I never recovered. As far as I was (and still am) concerned, starting with Adore, he progressively got worse and went further down the rabbit hole of horseshit. Although, that Oceana album turned out to be a fairly solid imitation of the old "magic"...
I'm really not sure why SP's golden era gets so much hate. Much of it is deserved when applied to anything from Adore on, but to read about it on the internets, from critics as well as folks like us on forums, comment threads, etc., I get the impression they're right up there with Nickleback and Creed when it comes to unpopular, hated bands. I really don't get it. Everything else aside, Siamese and Mellon Collie are, in my opinion, extremely well crafted, well-written examples of AOR. The rest I could do without. But those two albums, although they haven't aged as well as I would have thought, are pretty fantastic I think.
It seems to me that folks mostly just hate Billy's occasionally undeniable fuckheadery. I get it. But still, I can't get behind the idea that they were shitty, particularly if the reasoning is that he's a jackass and the music seemed calculated. Most music is highly calculated. Even Nirvana. Even Pixies. Hell - the last couple Pixies albums are about as calculating as it gets - and that's okay! You create things you think people will like and you do it in such a way to try to guarantee yourself some success. Different artists go about it different ways.
Oh, and as for the original quote that this thread was about - lol.
So that's my opinion. Sorry - I'm bored tonight and not looking forward to going into work in the morning!
Take me to the vineyards of Lavaux
Want to see the mountains where the waters flow |
| shineoftheever |
Posted - 12/29/2015 : 23:15:43
he's an ass for saying it. but that doesnt make it NOT true.
both are gifted cratsmen. Gish, SD, and MC&tIS are right up there with NVM and IU and for that matter all 4 of the Pixies output. IMO.
STP and PJ had a few good records as well. try listening to Ten and telling me "that eddie is so full of himself....."
"There are things known and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception." |
| Chris Knight |
Posted - 03/08/2015 : 10:15:06
I loved Siamese Dream and enjoyed much of the pre-SD and Mellon Collie era material, but yeah no. Corgan was no Cobain, and even Cobain's scope was limited compared to a Frank Black or Thom Yorke. Corgan is an example of an ego inflated by stardom, even if he is still very much devoted to carving his own niche rather than pandering to masses.
It's a weird comparison anyway, considering how Pumpkins were very 70s glam and arena influenced, while Cobain was more influenced by punk and post-punk. |
| Stevio10 |
Posted - 02/18/2015 : 12:42:28
Its kind of amusing but slightly depressing how bands like Smashing Pumpkins, Green Day and the Offspring, to name a few, made albums for angst ridden teen punks in the 90's and their demographic remains the same! Maybe its the teen punks grown up or their kids listening now but sure makes me feel older than I am. I dont get that feeling from the Pixies (yet?) thankfully but then again I have come to prefer FB solo material over the years. |
| The Champ |
Posted - 02/18/2015 : 04:53:31
I actually ignored SP the first time around as I thought they were annoying and obvious. I recently went over their discography to give them an honest chance. They have maybe 4 good songs, and the rest is quite literally pretentious garbage that only Corgan thinks is worth anything.
That being said, from 1992-1998 at least, they were the biggest; ignoring Radio Head. But to state that Corgan was on the same level as Cobain is funny, actually. |
| TarTar |
Posted - 02/16/2015 : 21:39:09
I was the primary age demographic for SP so I absolutely loved them back in the 1990s. Now I realize how many great bands of the era I overlooked - Archers of Loaf, Brainiac, Helium, Unwound, Rocket from the Crypt, to name just a few.
My life is dirt but you seem to make it cleaner... reduce my felony to a misdemeanor |
| Helmut |
Posted - 01/23/2015 : 20:50:26
The only thing he and Kurt have in common is they both had relations with Courtney Love. Ew.. |
| Stevio10 |
Posted - 01/20/2015 : 23:27:17
Gish, Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie were all decent to good albums, I used to listen to them in my teens but really cant stomach them now. Zwan had a couple of decent songs but other than that couldnt tell you what hes done in the (nearly) 20 years since.
Maybe he is referring to the grunge thing? If thats the case then I suppose they were 2 of the biggest/successful bands of that time.
The grunge thing, to me anyway, was over convoluted and self fulfilling that like much of the 90's record labels were busy creating new genres (or rather sub genres) pigeon holing bands to maximise profits.
But yes, Billy Corgan isn't afraid to toot his own horn. |
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