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T O P I C    R E V I E W
Arm Arm Arm Posted - 09/29/2013 : 21:50:15
One of the best shows I've ever seen, with a great finale. More to come, with spoilers, later...
19   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
The Champ Posted - 10/07/2013 : 05:52:53
quote:
Originally posted by Little Black Francis

It's impossible for it to go down like it did literally, and that is something that is not consistent with the prior 60 episodes.

How come he has hair? How can he be the most wanted man in the country yet walk into a diner, have a conversation with the waiter, and then just get in his car and leave. Not just leave, but visit his own home with no one watching his house? Get into a mansion with no security? And really, what would they do with that money, of course Walt jr. would never see it. And after he tells Lydia she's been poisoned we can assume she called 911 and was probably fine. And the machine gun, how would they let him park the car right in front of the house? There's no way he had the time or the means to make such a device, the recoil of the gun would be impossible to aim. How is it possible that it killed everyone in the room, there weren't any other Nazis in the basement or in another room? Shit like that is far more out of character than having a fantasy. And it's more of "the thoughts of a dying man" than it is a dream.



I agree. It was a let down. Not a horrible episode, but with all that buildup the whole season, it kinda stank. There was no amazing twist in it either which that show became known for.

Remember that video of the Mexicans playing guitar with two bodies on the ground in the desert, which looked like Jessy and Heisn? What happened to that? Oh well. Season 4 made up for it. Also, there was a lack of explanation of Freen's back story.
Arm Arm Arm Posted - 10/06/2013 : 06:49:08
SPOILERS!

At this point, I would hope anyone who hasn't watched the show would stop reading this thread unless they want to ruin it for themselves.





But this is consistent with the series. How was he able to poison Brock? Have Mike spot the cousins in time to save him? The one cousin not just shooting Hank instead of going for the axe? Gus managing to poison the entire cartel? That's not even getting into Bogdon not getting another opinion, Ted not telling anyone the truth, Tuco not just shooting them outside Tio's home, let alone Walt pulling off the fulminated mercury gambit.

The show is full of these amazing moments that are thrilling to watch and seem just as far fetched as the ending. For me, the show was its most realistic prior to Tuco and when dealing with the emotional fall out from Hank's discovery. The rest of it was a mix of developing and exploring the characters and their emotional states while mixed in with some black comedy, and suspenseful moments.

I think the ending is a huge stretch but not when taken into the context of what Walt has achieved before. Maybe I'm wrong and Vince Gilligan pulled off something more subtle or wants people to interpret the ending like that, which is fine. It just doesn't feel consistent with the show as a whole.

I think the events of Felina actually happened and weren't the last fantasy of a dying man.
Little Black Francis Posted - 10/06/2013 : 06:19:23
It's impossible for it to go down like it did literally, and that is something that is not consistent with the prior 60 episodes.

How come he has hair? How can he be the most wanted man in the country yet walk into a diner, have a conversation with the waiter, and then just get in his car and leave. Not just leave, but visit his own home with no one watching his house? Get into a mansion with no security? And really, what would they do with that money, of course Walt jr. would never see it. And after he tells Lydia she's been poisoned we can assume she called 911 and was probably fine. And the machine gun, how would they let him park the car right in front of the house? There's no way he had the time or the means to make such a device, the recoil of the gun would be impossible to aim. How is it possible that it killed everyone in the room, there weren't any other Nazis in the basement or in another room? Shit like that is far more out of character than having a fantasy. And it's more of "the thoughts of a dying man" than it is a dream.
Arm Arm Arm Posted - 10/06/2013 : 03:31:25
I've read that theory, (not the one with the devil though) some of the points make sense, it is interesting, and while I understand people wanting to interpret the ending that way, I don't think it works with what we're shown. Others online have pointed out that there are details in the events that occur that don't make sense for Walt to imagine, such as Gretchen and Elliott's new home. Or if it's a fantasy and he gets to say goodbye to Skyler, why not Junior as well? It also doesn't fit the show we've just scene for five seasons. I could be wrong but I don't think we've ever seen a dream sequence/fantasy scene like this before, it doesn't make sense to end the show with an extended one. It doesn't fit with their style of storytelling.

What Walt pulled off in the last episode was a bit much given his situation in Granite State but not too far from what he managed to do against Gus Fring.
Little Black Francis Posted - 10/05/2013 : 14:28:38
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/entertainment/2013/10/breaking-down-breaking-bad-theories/70085/

Here's a decent short article on a couple alternate theories. I like the one "Walt was already dead."

quote:
Walt Was Already Dead

This theory, mainly from the New Yorker's Emily Nussbaum, but also posed by comedian Norm Macdonald, postulates that, as Nussbaum writes, "what we were watching must be a dying fantasy on the part of Walter White, not something that was actually happening—at least not in the 'real world' of the previous seasons." Nussbaum's theory is partly a rationalization for why Nussbaum thinks the finale was so discordant with the later developments in the storyline.

Much of the theory rests on an alternate reading of the episode's first scene of Walt in that snow-covered car. Nussbaum suggests Walt never really started the engine and instead froze to death. One point of evidence for this theory's plausibility, as one person offered in a Twitter conversation with Nussbaum, is that it seems like Walt broke the ignition lock when he was trying to start the car with a screw driver. If so, it might have rendered the key he found in the visor useless. The scene is shot in such darkness that it's hard to tell what exactly happens. We can see him toggling with the car, and something falling off of the steering column.



The next cut is Walt trying and failing to start the car again. When it won't budge, he seems to fall back, perhaps resigned to death. Steam escapes out of his mouth like the life leaving him.



Soon the car is illuminated with a police car's lights and Walt gets very still. He whispers "just get me home" as if in prayer. Macdonald writes, "He never made it out of that car in the snow, surrounded by police. That's where he died, his final prayer unanswered." The keys magically fall into his lap and he somehow is able to easily drive away despite the car being completely snowed in. Matt Yglesias at Slate pointed out that his ability to remove snow with just the windshield wipers seemed too easy when usually ice needs to be scraped off. There's a deus ex machina quality to that whole incident.

In her Walt-was-dead theory, Nussbaum points out that it would explain how he was able to evade the national manhunt and visit all the people he needs to (the Schwartzs, Skyler, Flynn, etc.) without being detected. "No one spots Walt when he enters Skyler’s home, either—or when he leaves," she writes. "No one notices when Walt goes to see his son for the last time, even though you’d imagine that area would be flooded with surveillance. Walt is not noticed even when he steps inside a brightly lit, crowded Albuquerque restaurant, where he sits down with Lydia and Todd." Perhaps the most ghostly moment is when you suddenly realize he's been in the room when Skyler talked on the phone with Marie about how he's back in town.



Nussbaum's theory dovetails nicely with the one offered by Zoller Seitz in his immediate recap that Walt's "Hello, Carol" to his next door neighbor can be read as a reference to Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol with Walt as Jacob Marley "materializing in people's homes to scare the hell out of them by pointing an accusing finger or moaning in misery while clanking his pitiful irons."

Of course, if this is all a fantasy of a ghostly Walt, why are there, in the words of Zoller Seitz, "unforeseen twists," like Jesse cooking under the control of the Nazis or how an almost magical weapon wipes out the whole gang? As for Jesse, perhaps Walt's subconscious wants Jesse to be alive and for the chance to save him, after abandoning him so cruelly early in the season. The latter can be explained that if it is his fantasy, he dies at his own hand. He even seems to be unfazed when he notices he is bleeding.



With Walt knowing he's dead, it makes more sense that he kills Uncle Jack before letting him tell him where his money is. He, after all, doesn't need it and can't give it away.

On Twitter Nussbaum also led us to another theory at the Tumblr Jamie Dew Oeuvre, where the Dew argues that Walt's prayer, the fantasy-like quality to the finale, and the fact that Walt travels most places undetected yields the conclusion that he made a deal with the devil.

While no one has asked Gilligan about this theory, yet, in his numerous exit interviews, Gilligan talks about Walt as a living, breathing, and dying person at the end of the series. For instance, in his Breaking Bad insider podcast, he explained how he ditched the idea of Walt going "Rambo" with the machine gun because they "realized how Walt’s cancer would resurface and how sick Walt would be." That is not the way you'd expect Gilligan to discuss a ghost. And when talking with Dan Snierson in Entertainment Weekly, Gilligan says that, yes, Walt did accomplish what he set out to do: get the money to his family.



If you really care, go to Norm Macdonald's https://twitter.com/normmacdonald, it is genius the way he can explain everything well beyond what's in this little article. I wish he would just write an article or someone would take his dozens and dozens of tweets and put them together. I would but I'm not.
pixiestu Posted - 10/04/2013 : 10:07:08
quote:
Originally posted by Little Black Francis

I'm liking this theory out there that Walt actually gets arrested/dies in the snow covered car unfulfilled either shot or in a cancer coma and that the rest of the episode after the keys fall into his lap is his fantasy/dream like. It helps explain a lot of the ambiguous endings, things that are a stretch, inconsistencies, and such that all seem to really be there just to redeem Walt's wishes. If I find a good article about it I'll post it, but think about it.



***SPOILERS ***

I never thought about that. Interesting since the last lyrics of the song we hear in the car are "Maybe tomorrow a bullet may find me...". Maybe this works it's way into Walt's subconscious explaining the way events we see events unfold?

I don't think this theory is the intention of the writers but I guess if that's how you wanted to think of it, it sort of works. Interesting.


"The arc of triumph"
Little Black Francis Posted - 10/02/2013 : 08:27:03
I'm liking this theory out there that Walt actually gets arrested/dies in the snow covered car unfulfilled either shot or in a cancer coma and that the rest of the episode after the keys fall into his lap is his fantasy/dream like. It helps explain a lot of the ambiguous endings, things that are a stretch, inconsistencies, and such that all seem to really be there just to redeem Walt's wishes. If I find a good article about it I'll post it, but think about it.
shineoftheever Posted - 10/01/2013 : 21:21:32
spoilers - duh

when walt blew up tuco's office and then when he ran down the dealers and even as he watched jesse's gf od; these were all survival tactics; he was faced with decisions and made them for the best outcome of walt and jesse (in walt's mind). once gus had control walt had to embrace the evil side - again survival - but his moves from gale to gus and up to the mike kill were calculated. killing mike seemed to be the switch for me - it wasnt necessary; but it was justifiable from a "kingpin" perspective. he was tying up loose ends and assigning culpability and ensuring deniability.....was an amazing character moment IMO. i loved how walt gave skyler the lotto ticket at the end, a small amount of redemption and a show of compassion, a realisation of what he put the family through.

i thought a cool twist would be to show the gray matter couple calling the cops so squashing the idea that the family would get the dough but then show a news clip with an announcer saying "unclaimed lotto ticket purchased in the ABQ area nearly one year ago has yet to come forward....if this prize isn't claimed in the next week the 80 million dollar jackpot will be....."

"Do Re Me So Far So Good"
danjersey Posted - 10/01/2013 : 17:57:21
I'm happy with how it all turned out. Walt didn't just bring the goods, he cooked them. "that's entertainment"
Arm Arm Arm Posted - 10/01/2013 : 15:51:22
SPOILERS!




I think the show had an interesting trajectory; from the first episode up until Walt blows up Tuco's office, the show kept it more or less real. After that, the show becomes a bit more pulpy, yet for the most part, seems more based in real life. "Peekaboo" is one of the darkest moments on the show, as is what happens to Jane. But, it still feels like the misadventures of Walt & Jesse, to a degree. From the menacing introduction of the Cousins, to their defeat, the way the one slowly drags the axe over to kill Hank, the show slowly became something else; more of a thriller, still laced with black comedy and serious drama. But these last eight episodes brought things back into the more realistic domain, with the brutal consequences of Walt's actions. The last episode was something else again; a mix of the pulp and the real; we see how devestated Walt left his family; how he'll never hold his baby daughter again and at the same time, watch him have revenge on Jack and gang with a "robot machine gun."

And the attention to detail...it's inspiring. They really took their time, exploiting a concept. Another show would've just shown Walt appearing back in ABQ, instead we get the opening of the finale. The show knew how to take its time and build and build before unleashing an amazing climax.

Arm Arm Arm Posted - 10/01/2013 : 06:50:28
Danjersey---I don't know, I never saw the Wild Bunch, however in interviews I've seen Vince Gilligan reference the Shooters.

Cult_of_Frank---I would hope that people who haven't seen the show would know there could be spoilers, heck, there will be spoilers, in this thread but I'll still put little spoiler warnings on my own posts. I figure someone may wander in here just to see what we all think of the show and then boom! They've seen something best experienced as a viewer.

This show has actually made me gasp while watching it, pause it to consider what I'd just seen and surprised me, horrified me and delighted me multiple times; I'd hate for it to be ruined for anyone else.

The more I think about the finale the better it gets. I'm glad I was able to avoid any spoilers myself.

Anyway, yes, great show and I look forward to reading others' thoughts on it.

cheers
Cult_Of_Frank Posted - 10/01/2013 : 04:31:40
Probably one of the best-written things ever shown to the world on a television screen. The finale was perfect. And as for posting spoilers, I think having a thread called "Breaking Bad" is enough warning at this point that there is going to be discussion about the story etc. Anybody in here that wouldn't expect not to see spoilers (before I start doing so myself)?


"If we hit this bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate."
danjersey Posted - 09/30/2013 : 15:13:35
*spoiler alert!

does anyone else think the coup de grâce was an homage to The Wild Bunch?

shineoftheever Posted - 09/30/2013 : 15:01:12
the whole series was just an amazing accomplishment all around. walt at his darkest was still a totally intriguing character and i tuned in every week to see if/how he would redeem himself...i really think walt knew what he was doing at every turn, each manipulative twist up until he offed mike; after that he was kinda winging it......post-mike walt was a scarily dark character. yet the continuous introduction of new evil made him the light of the show, y'know what i mean?

they say saul is getting a spin-off....

"Do Re Me So Far So Good"
Arm Arm Arm Posted - 09/30/2013 : 13:59:08
Oh yeah, I loved the inventive camera work; some really amazing and memorable shots.
Arm Arm Arm Posted - 09/30/2013 : 13:57:33
I think Breaking Bad really delivered on its core concept, exploring Walter's transformation in great and entertaining detail. I feel the show had a greast sense of rhythm, slowly building things towards big moments; some of my favorite parts of the show are the slower paced scenes between different characters. But when they delivered on a climax, they really delivered. I think the show started out as a somewhat realistic take on his situation and fairly early on, became more of a pulpy action thriller mixe with black comedy and some seriously heavy and upsetting moments.I think my next post is going to get into spoilers.

I'm surprised there wasn't a Breaking Bad topic on here all this time, it seems like a show that posters would be into.

TarTar Posted - 09/30/2013 : 13:02:38
Apparently the final episode of Breaking Bad took place in September of 2011?

My life is dirt but you seem to make it cleaner... reduce my felony to a misdemeanor
TarTar Posted - 09/30/2013 : 13:01:55
I am not a show guy. My girlfriend watched this series from beginning to end. She has introduced me to shows. We've watched Parks and Rec up to the present. She also showed me all of Spaced with Simon Pegg. Watched some of Bob's Burgers and the Boondocks, too. The only show from the last decade-ish that I had watched prior to her was Curb Your Enthusiasm.

My life is dirt but you seem to make it cleaner... reduce my felony to a misdemeanor
pixiestu Posted - 09/30/2013 : 12:37:30
I thought it was great. I'm wondering what the safe amount of time to not talk about details is, to prevent spoiling anything. Then again if I hadn't seen the finale yet I don't think I would open a thread titled 'Breaking Bad'. Still, I don't want to ruin anything for anyone.


"The arc of triumph"

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