| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| kathryn |
Posted - 12/14/2005 : 15:10:26
Seriously. This could be a good one.
What do you think about today's execution by lethal injection of Crips founder Stanley "Tookie" Williams?
Schwartzenegger's native Austria has maligned the governor for not sparing the convict's life. Celebrities such as Snoop Dogg have embraced Tookie as a martyr wrongly found guilty of killing four innocent people with a sawed-off shotgun, who became a man of peace and devoted his life to helping kids.
I got some heaven in my head
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| 35 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| VoVat |
Posted - 12/27/2005 : 11:49:42
Hey, if I actually REJECTED jokes, half my posts wouldn't have been made.
"If you doze much longer, then life turns to dreaming. If you doze much longer, then dreams turn to nightmares." |
| The King Of Karaoke |
Posted - 12/26/2005 : 13:02:54
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
What's happened to me, Homers! I'm using your rejects!
But, c'mon now, Death Row Records gave us such classics as The Chronic and Doggystyle, not to mention Pac's Nu-Mixx Klazzics.
I got some heaven in my head
It's okay. Just don't use Vovat's rejected jokes. I could only imagine the horror.
 |
| Erebus |
Posted - 12/26/2005 : 09:38:58
Graz removes Schwarzenegger's name from stadium
Dec 26, 1005
Reuters
Californian Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's Austrian home town of Graz removed his name from the city's stadium over Christmas, amid anger over his decision to deny clemency to a death row inmate.
Austrian news agency APA showed the stadium's entrance displaying only its historical name, "Graz-Liebenau," and quoted an anonymous city official as saying Schwarzenegger's name had been removed overnight to avoid a public furor.
Graz city officials were not reachable on Monday, a holiday in Austria.
Left-wing politicians launched a petition drive in Graz to have the town rename the stadium because the Austrian-born governor allowed the execution of death-row inmate Stanley Tookie Williams this month.
Williams, an ex-leader of the Crips gang who supporters say had redeemed himself by campaigning against gang violence, was executed by lethal injection on December 13 after Schwarzenegger and the courts rejected all of his appeals.
While conservative mayor Siegfried Nagl opposed renaming the stadium, a city council majority of social democrats, communists and greens supported it. That prospect prompted Schwarzenegger to turn the tables and withdraw his name himself.
On December 19, Schwarzenegger demanded Graz stop using his name on the stadium and in promotions and returned a "ring of honor" he had been awarded by city officials in 1999, saying politicians in his hometown appeared to have rejected him.
Schwarzenegger, a former body building champion and Hollywood star, trained at the stadium as a young man. It was renamed in his honor in 1997.
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| Homers_pet_monkey |
Posted - 12/23/2005 : 05:18:52
Fo'shizzle!
 I'd walk her everyday, into a shady place
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| kathryn |
Posted - 12/23/2005 : 04:47:32
What's happened to me, Homers! I'm using your rejects!
But, c'mon now, Death Row Records gave us such classics as The Chronic and Doggystyle, not to mention Pac's Nu-Mixx Klazzics.
I got some heaven in my head
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| Homers_pet_monkey |
Posted - 12/23/2005 : 04:23:51
It's funny (is it?) because I was gonna make the same joke as Kathryn, but then thought better of it. You used a joke that I rejected. Shameful.
I'd walk her everyday, into a shady place
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| Monsieur |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 09:57:44
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
Death Row released some good songs.
Sorry.
I got some heaven in my head
It's OK kathryn, you have my full support for any lame jokes you might make.
Let's blast Homer's Pet Mikey!
I will show you fear in a handful of dust |
| kathryn |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 06:15:21
Death Row released some good songs.
Sorry.
I got some heaven in my head
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| VoVat |
Posted - 12/20/2005 : 20:28:27
quote:
Also if you're on death row, the security is much more than you would have as part of a regular prision population.
True, but I've already said I'm not a fan of the whole Death Row thing.
"If you doze much longer, then life turns to dreaming. If you doze much longer, then dreams turn to nightmares." |
| Daisy Girl |
Posted - 12/19/2005 : 16:12:56
Hee Hee Vovat. The expenses are mostly due to legal costs that are higher for those that are executed. For example, if you cut a deal and agree to life in prision and not to appeal, then you save the system money. Also appeals tend to be more extensive when one is facing the death penalty.
Also if you're on death row, the security is much more than you would have as part of a regular prision population. So that drives up costs as well.
I found this interesting tid bit and others here:http://www.tcadp.org/factsAndFigures.htm
The death penalty costs more than life imprisonment.
A 1992 Dallas Morning News study found that the cost to Texas taxpayers of a capital trial and all subsequent appeals is an average of $2.3 million per case. This Figure does not include the cost of the federal appeals process where
50 % to 70% of the death sentences are overturned. (By comparison, the cost of housing an inmate in a single cell maximum security unit for life is approximately $750,000.
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| VoVat |
Posted - 12/19/2005 : 14:50:35
I tried using my imagination, and all I came up with was the tragic tale of a unicorn born without a horn. Lousy fantasy, ruining my ability to imagine realistic things!
"If you doze much longer, then life turns to dreaming. If you doze much longer, then dreams turn to nightmares." |
| Monsieur |
Posted - 12/19/2005 : 12:54:29
quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
quote:
I meant it's six times cheaper to not execute than it is to execute.
If you're keeping them in jail, I really don't see how it could be.
"If you doze much longer, then life turns to dreaming. If you doze much longer, then dreams turn to nightmares."
I'm sure you can get it if you use your imagination.
I will show you fear in a handful of dust |
| VoVat |
Posted - 12/19/2005 : 12:25:48
quote:
I meant it's six times cheaper to not execute than it is to execute.
If you're keeping them in jail, I really don't see how it could be.
"If you doze much longer, then life turns to dreaming. If you doze much longer, then dreams turn to nightmares." |
| Homers_pet_monkey |
Posted - 12/19/2005 : 06:06:16
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
Can we talk about what really matters here? That if any of us were on death row the last thing we'd want is Snoop Dogg to be speaking on our behalf.
I got some heaven in my head
No, I'd want him doing my wrapping.
I'd walk her everyday, into a shady place
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| Daisy Girl |
Posted - 12/18/2005 : 19:32:51
quote:
Originally posted by Homers_pet_monkey
quote:
Originally posted by Daisy Girl
Honestly it is six times cheaper not to execute people than it is to keep them in prison. Not sure why we do it to anyone.
Aren't you not killing them by keeping them in prison?
I'd walk her everyday, into a shady place
I meant it's six times cheaper to not execute than it is to execute.
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| VoVat |
Posted - 12/18/2005 : 16:22:55
What about "Jingle All the Way"?
"If you doze much longer, then life turns to dreaming. If you doze much longer, then dreams turn to nightmares." |
| floop |
Posted - 12/17/2005 : 13:47:33
i'm willing to cut Schwarzenegger a lot of slack for his performances in CONAN THE BARBARIAN and CONAN THE DESTROYER. this execution is no exception |
| Carl |
Posted - 12/17/2005 : 11:32:46
Oh no, no, I'm blaming him on that. But he could have prevented the execution going ahead.
 "Join the Honeycult!"
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| kathryn |
Posted - 12/17/2005 : 10:00:54
quote:
Originally posted by Carl
It just isn't right to keep somebody on death row for 20 odd years before killing them. Schwarzenegger is a total prick.
"Join the Honeycult!"
I'm the last person who'd defend Ahhnold but what you say Carl isn't his doing or fault. In the land of democracy called the United States, a death row prisoner spends an average of 9+ years (almost a decade) awaiting execution.
I got some heaven in my head
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| Carl |
Posted - 12/17/2005 : 07:42:13
It just isn't right to keep somebody on death row for 20 odd years before killing them. Schwarzenegger is a total prick.
"Join the Honeycult!"
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| Cheeseman1000 |
Posted - 12/16/2005 : 13:58:13
quote:
Originally posted by Monsieur
quote:
Originally posted by floop
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
Can we talk about what really matters here? That if any of us were on death row the last thing we'd want is Snoop Dogg to be speaking on our behalf.
I got some heaven in my head
speak for yourself
.....bitch!
I will show you fear in a handful of dust
It's pronounced 'biznitch'
 I have joined the Cult Of Frank/And I have dearly paid |
| Monsieur |
Posted - 12/16/2005 : 12:51:27
quote:
Originally posted by floop
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
Can we talk about what really matters here? That if any of us were on death row the last thing we'd want is Snoop Dogg to be speaking on our behalf.
I got some heaven in my head
speak for yourself
.....bitch!
I will show you fear in a handful of dust |
| floop |
Posted - 12/16/2005 : 10:46:35
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
Can we talk about what really matters here? That if any of us were on death row the last thing we'd want is Snoop Dogg to be speaking on our behalf.
I got some heaven in my head
speak for yourself |
| kathryn |
Posted - 12/16/2005 : 10:45:54
Can we talk about what really matters here? That if any of us were on death row the last thing we'd want is Snoop Dogg to be speaking on our behalf.
I got some heaven in my head
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| Monsieur |
Posted - 12/16/2005 : 10:24:32
quote:
Originally posted by Frog in the Sand
quote:
Originally posted by Monsieur
Hannah Arendt has done some great work, but this statement is purely rhetoric and doesn't mean anything.
[/i]
I humbly suggest that you stop smoking crack and read 'this statement' again.
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"In the magnificent fierce morning of New Mexico, one sprang awake, a new part of the soul woke up suddenly and the old world gave way to the new." - D. H. Lawrence
I'm pretty much confident about my understanding of this sentence Mr Frog. I've read "La banalité du mal" several times.
I could explain very clearly and logically why it is wrong, but it is Friday evening.
I will show you fear in a handful of dust |
| TRANSMARINE |
Posted - 12/16/2005 : 10:04:57
quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
quote:
Get this...now Mel Gibson may run. At least he's American (with an accent).
Aren't he and Arnold both naturalized citizens? I could be wrong here.
Personally, I think the law requiring that presidential candidates have been born in the United States is ridiculous. That's not to say that I want Arnold or Mel to be President, but I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to run.
"If you doze much longer, then life turns to dreaming. If you doze much longer, then dreams turn to nightmares."
I was just making a jab at celebrities as leaders.
Hank the 8th was a duplicated man
-bRIAN |
| VoVat |
Posted - 12/16/2005 : 10:01:22
I'm not opposed to the death penalty, but I think you have to be really damned sure that someone is guilty before executing them. So if there's doubt, then I think it makes sense to keep the person alive. If you're as certain as humanly possible, then I don't think the death penalty is a bad idea. And I don't think that, when the legal system is this sure, it makes sense to keep the person on Death Row. I don't know much about this particular case, but I get the impression that the courts were awfully sure Tookie actually committed the murders.
quote:
Death penalty is not about not allowing someone to live. It is about retaliation. You are clearly trying to humiliate him by violently expropriating him of himself i.e. his life. For example, they are very careful about preventing any suicide attempts. If it was only about not allowing him to live, you would let him take his own life if he wants to.
I understand your point here. As a rule, retaliation is rarely effective. I'm not opposed to the death penalty, but I'm certainly not against a convicted killer committing suicide, either. I think I see it sort of like Kathryn does. I don't see any reason to keep someone alive if they're beyond remorse, and totally capable of going out and murdering again. But that's different from execution for the sake of revenge, or as use as a deterrent. I suppose you could say I have a problem with the jusification, but not the action itself.
quote:
Get this...now Mel Gibson may run. At least he's American (with an accent).
Aren't he and Arnold both naturalized citizens? I could be wrong here.
Personally, I think the law requiring that presidential candidates have been born in the United States is ridiculous. That's not to say that I want Arnold or Mel to be President, but I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to run.
"If you doze much longer, then life turns to dreaming. If you doze much longer, then dreams turn to nightmares." |
| Frog in the Sand |
Posted - 12/16/2005 : 09:42:50
quote:
Originally posted by Monsieur
Hannah Arendt has done some great work, but this statement is purely rhetoric and doesn't mean anything.
[/i]
I humbly suggest that you stop smoking crack and read 'this statement' again.
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"In the magnificent fierce morning of New Mexico, one sprang awake, a new part of the soul woke up suddenly and the old world gave way to the new." - D. H. Lawrence
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| cassandra is |
Posted - 12/16/2005 : 06:28:13
For the first time of my life, I agree with all that said Monsieur
pas de bras pas de chocolat |
| starmekitten |
Posted - 12/16/2005 : 06:24:12
Prison in some cases, it could be argued, is not a fitting deterrent anymore. Would a more severe punishment such as the death penalty inthe instance of murder (or chemical castration for rapists and paedophiles) which is fitting to the crime, be more off putting than a life in prison?
I remember watching a documentary about moors murderer Ian Brady and Myra Hindley. Hindley was never released from prison, this was an aspect of the documentary, whether or not she has attoned for her crimes and should be given a second chance. She did it, she was there for the death of those kids and she was part of it and there is no doubt about it. Her cell, was nicer than my bedroom. She had sky TV, she smoked heavily (I wish I could afford to smoke heavily). She's in prison, which no it can't be fun, but it doesn't look like a living hell to me, which it could be argued the parents of all the children that died at the hands of these people had to suffer through.
She died in prison.
Like to point out, not maybe my thoughts as I don't know where I stand on the death penalty practice, or the principle. |
| Homers_pet_monkey |
Posted - 12/16/2005 : 05:54:31
quote:
Originally posted by KimStanleyRobinson
quote:
Originally posted by Daisy Girl
Honestly it is six times cheaper not to execute people than it is to keep them in prison. Not sure why we do it to anyone.
actually.
umm..
am i missing something?
is there a grammatical error here?
are you saying it is "six times cheaper" to set the deathrow inmate free than it is to execute him?
are you saying it is "six times cheaper" to keep him in jail than it is to execute him?
if you are "not executing" people and you are not "keeping them in prison" then, you're setting them free, right?
you are obviously a death penalty oppponent, but whats with the "six times cheaper" bit?
just
don't
understand
help
I love the way this makes me feel.
http://www.walken2008.com
This is why I posted what I did. I hope it's a typo anyway.
I'd walk her everyday, into a shady place
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| Monsieur |
Posted - 12/16/2005 : 05:29:51
Death penalty is not about not allowing someone to live. It is about retaliation. You are clearly trying to humiliate him by violently expropriating him of himself i.e. his life. For example, they are very careful about preventing any suicide attempts. If it was only about not allowing him to live, you would let him take his own life if he wants to.
By the way, Hannah Arendt has nothing to do with the purely economic motivations "I am not going to pay for a murderer..."
That argument is quickly self contradicting because what you are paying for is the whole crime&punishment system and you can't really focus on individual cases. Your sandwich money also goes to a boy who stole a wallet. I don't think that this boy deserves your money either, you see. Punishment costs money.
I will show you fear in a handful of dust |
| kathryn |
Posted - 12/16/2005 : 04:50:27
Hannah Arendt is making my point about bologna sandwiches but with fancier language.
I got some heaven in my head
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| Monsieur |
Posted - 12/16/2005 : 03:52:38
quote:
Originally posted by Frog in the Sand
About death penalty - while covering the trial of Adolf Eichmann in 1961, Hannah Arendt wrote:
"Just as you supported and carried out a policy of not wanting to share the Earth with the Jewish people, and the people of a number of other nations, as though you and your superiors had any right to determine who should and who should not inhabit the world, we find that no one, that is no member of the human race, can be expected to share the Earth with you. This is the reason, and the only reason you must hang."
Just my 2 cents.
-----
"In the magnificent fierce morning of New Mexico, one sprang awake, a new part of the soul woke up suddenly and the old world gave way to the new." - D. H. Lawrence
Hannah Arendt has done some great work, but this statement is purely rhetoric and doesn't mean anything.
I will show you fear in a handful of dust |
| Frog in the Sand |
Posted - 12/16/2005 : 02:39:30
About death penalty - while covering the trial of Adolf Eichmann in 1961, Hannah Arendt wrote:
"Just as you supported and carried out a policy of not wanting to share the Earth with the Jewish people, and the people of a number of other nations, as though you and your superiors had any right to determine who should and who should not inhabit the world, we find that no one, that is no member of the human race, can be expected to share the Earth with you. This is the reason, and the only reason you must hang."
Just my 2 cents.
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"In the magnificent fierce morning of New Mexico, one sprang awake, a new part of the soul woke up suddenly and the old world gave way to the new." - D. H. Lawrence
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