| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Carolynanna |
Posted - 11/02/2005 : 09:55:44
This topic prolly won't get any response,
but I'm venting anyways.
Dear Mr.Bush, you can't go gainst NAFTA you crazy dictator!
We want our $5 billion dollars back!
http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html?id=af3f177f-3a6c-4cec-b462-92fcf67990bb
http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html?id=af3f177f-3a6c-4cec-b462-92fcf67990bb
__________
Don't believe the hype. |
| 35 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| kathryn |
Posted - 11/06/2005 : 19:28:45
Another important point to be made about Canada is that the Canadiens are
No. 1 in the Eastern Conference.
When we walked through Little Italy I saw my reflection come right off your face
I paint pictures to remember, you're too beautiful to put into words
|
| PixieSteve |
Posted - 11/06/2005 : 17:02:28
i don't understand erebus, can someone break it down. is he saying he's racist? keep it simple please.
 |
| Cult_Of_Frank |
Posted - 11/06/2005 : 17:00:40
It is paradoxical that the only way multiculturalism can work is by treating everyone the same regardless of race, culture, or, for that matter, anything that makes us distinct in the first place. At least this is how it seems to me.
As far as the sponsorship scandal goes, thanks for answering, I don't think there's much worth discussing there now. For the record, however, I doubt the Liberals are milking it for political advantage when in fact their unwillingness to be tough with the US or make any progress has caused them more harm than good, especially when a resolution (never more than at present) to this would potentially save them in light of the coming election and their spiralling popularity. Although they may not need saving thanks to Stephen Harper being as inept and/or evil as he is. But that's more than I should've said already...
 "Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
| Erebus |
Posted - 11/05/2005 : 19:01:47
I should have made a distinction between more diverse communities or regions and those that are less diverse but have one or a few significant minoritiy populations, especially if those populations remain insulated and unintegrated. Obviously that’s where the friction will arise. As you say, London has the high diversity model, which should be more stable under most conditions. If there’s true integration there’s not much problem. The form of multiculturalism featuring significant, unintegrated minority populations is what I am seeing as bound to fail. I’m reading that in Denmark the Islamic rioters are demanding that the police stay out so the Islamic population can be a law unto itself. That cannot fly.
I don’t get that much practice with other cultures. In Reno there are populations of Hispanics, Blacks, Moslems, and others, but the numbers aren’t that great. The Hispanic community is growing fastest. There are gangs. But I don’t have that much direct contact. I’m a recluse anyway, and I drive most places. |
| Cheeseman1000 |
Posted - 11/05/2005 : 16:17:25
Well it was certainly better worded than the afore-mentioned acquaintance.
I'm sure that this is not what you meant to imply, but the impression I get from that post is that any multiculturalism is bound to fail, and therefore it's pretty useless to try and integrate, or what have you. Theorising and conjecturing aside for a moment, what's your personal, practical approach to multiculturalism? Living in maybe the most multicultural city in the world, I do my best to embrace all the different nationalities that I come across, and in my various exploits I come across plenty. Now, I don't neccessarily agree with all opinions of, say, all religions that are to be found in my locality, but it certainly doesn't mean I think it's bad that they're here, just as if I had a difference of opinion with another white Englishman. I'm just curious to what extent multiculturalism is in evidence in your everyday life.
By the way, I can certainly see many of the points you're making there, and they make sense to me. Obviously, I don't agree with it all, but I didn't want you to get the impression that I'm dismissing your opinions at all.
 I have joined the Cult Of Frank/And I have dearly paid |
| Erebus |
Posted - 11/05/2005 : 13:58:13
quote:
Originally posted by Cheeseman1000
Erebus, I'd be interested to hear your opinion's on multiculturalism in general: I have an acquaintance who out and out says "multiculturalism is evil", but I'm sure I can get a more balanced and informed view from you!
I have joined the Cult Of Frank/And I have dearly paid
I'm reluctant to say much about it. In my opinion our culture lacks the maturity for honest discussion of such things. However, your question did prompt me to write a few paragraphs on it, something I do too rarely. Thank you. Here's the gist.
I think most experiments in multiculturalism are doomed to failure for reasons arising out of evolution, human and otherwise. During periods of prosperity others are welcome, but prosperity lasts only so long, and then when times grow tight, racial and ethnic persecution ensues. When the majority race cannot feed its families, if it can it will take food from the tables of the ethnic minorities. At some point along the way violence becomes simple rationality. History suggests nothing else and the future will continue that history because we are, evolutionarily speaking, the fruit of that history. During periods of prosperity we try to forget that but in stressful times almost all of us will lose the luxury of such self-delusion.
An ethnic group under stress it will find its allies among its own, as it defines it, and its opponents among those unlike itself, however superficial the differences may be. Almost everybody will forget about such trifles as justice and moral consistency. The DNA of those who behave with ethnic selfishness (selfishness well short of that of the Nazis and their brethren) will do better than that of those who fritter away their assets on those less like themselves. DNA which builds animals that restrict, relatively speaking, their altruism to those most like themselves will consistantly outpace DNA which builds less discrimating animals. If this is accurate, we can expect ethnic groups under pressure to behave with whatever selfishness they require to improve their situation.
I don’t think it’s necessarily impossible that humans are presently evolvng toward a tendency to a more inclusive altruism, but we are nowhere near the point where that would become relevant to discussion of present day multiculturalism. It’s one thing to trumpet tolerance, but when social policy assumes way too much tolerance, we’re headed for trouble. In fundamental respects, social policy should be based on low expectations for just how people will behave in extreme conditions. You don’t base a global social experiment on hope.
Nobody designed the multicultural city of the west. For the most part it just happened, and now that it has happened, those who would vainly postpone the strife I expect are rising to the occasion by subjecting us to propaganda intended to make us grow to like the necessity we find upon us, namely, multiculteralism. We’ve got our new reality, so we must be trained to like it. This training will fail.
Multiculturalism may or may not be founded upon good intentions but in reality its brief “success” only ensures that future grief will be that much worse. The further we go down the road of multiculturalism, the greater the penalty all will reap later.
I realize all this provides an unconventional basis for opposition to multiculturalism. I am not writing to applaud this version of the state of affairs. Instead I intend simply to describe, and prescribe. Thanks for asking for my opinion.
|
| Newo |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 16:15:20
Erebus, I´d take a leader´s claims these wars were about freedom or peace at least a little more seriously if 1) the countries that needed freeing weren´t always so overwhelmingly rich in opium or oil, 2) the enormous profit was taken out of warfare (bombs rarely kill those who make them, twould be nice to see how many businesses we have interested in peace when war is no longer a financial racket) and 3) any leader who declares a war gets his or herself on the front line.
--
Buy your best friend flowers. Buy your lover a beer. Covet thy father. Covet thy neighbour's father. Honour thy lover's beer. Covet thy neighbour's father's wife's sister. Take her to bingo night. |
| The King Of Karaoke |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 14:41:50
Evildoer
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10879.htm
 I am not a number. I am a free man! |
| Cheeseman1000 |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 11:39:38
Erebus, I'd be interested to hear your opinion's on multiculturalism in general: I have an acquaintance who out and out says "multiculturalism is evil", but I'm sure I can get a more balanced and informed view from you!
I have joined the Cult Of Frank/And I have dearly paid |
| Erebus |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 11:29:40
Note to self: leave the damn Canadians alone.
Owen: Actually, I’m fond of phrases like “Peace through superior firepower” and “Arsenal of Democacy”. In my opinion, current wars stem more from the weakness of appeasement than they do from the folly of prior wars. If you want peace, finish the war. Any peace, any war.
CoF: Can’t say that I know much about the Sponsorship Scandal beyond the basic allegations. I have been aware of the scandal for about a year, mostly through commentary and links at conservative/libertarian sites like instapundit.com and nationalreview.com .
“if we're going to compare corrupt governments situation by situation”: I’m not sure where this comes from, as I’ve only made two posts on this thread, neither of which makes such comparisons, so far as I can tell. But, your point is a good one in and of itself. And no, I don’t expect to find much along the lines you suggest. I raised the Gomery report as an example of where a Canadian outraged by lying might direct attention closer to home. The Sponsorship Scandal amuses mostly because it exposes Canadian leadership for what it is, and, to my mind, serves to undercut much of the moral highground international Bush opponents would claim for themselves. But Owen is right about the ´your scumbags are worse than my scumbags´ argument, except that some of us accept that scumbags are all we’re going to get. I’ll take capitalist scumbags over socialist scumbags anyday, as you know.
Regarding the softwood dispute, I have tried to educate myself on this but all the articles I’ve found fail to concisely explain the basics of the dispute. Speaking as an opponent to NAFTA, I am willing to accept that the US is at fault, though I hardly believe Canada is pure on this. Much that I have read suggests the the Canadian Liberals are milking this for domestic political advantage and therefore have little incentive to settle it.
KoK: Yes, I still support Bush and the war as much as ever. I’m not in love with the situation but I see nothing realistic on offer from other quarters. For all the rabid attacks on Bush, I have seen no semblance of an alternative from his critics. Please don’t suggest the UN is the answer.
Now then, should I amble over to that French riot thread to see whether anybody's mentioned multiculturalism? Maybe someone's drawn a comparison between the French press's characterization of American race relations and the American press's thusfar relative lack of speculation on such matters in France. After all, we mustn't forget that race riots are a sympton of American capitalism, the likes of which could never occur under the nurturing wing of European socialism. |
| kathryn |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 10:46:28
quote:
Originally posted by BrendanT
Hey Kathryn,
Sorry. I forgot to mention that I will certainly adopt you.
Sweeeeeet!
quote:
You might have to be the bread-winner of the family though. Is that okay?
Only if you don't make me sell Beaver tails to support our family.
When we walked through Little Italy I saw my reflection come right off your face
I paint pictures to remember, you're too beautiful to put into words
|
| BrendanT |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 10:03:35
Hey Kathryn,
Sorry. I forgot to mention that I will certainly adopt you. You might have to be the bread-winner of the family though. Is that okay?
Go Habs Go!
Countercultivating Midnights
This world's a fuckin' stripmall! |
| BrendanT |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 10:02:03
The rules do not apply to USA because they are the rule makers.
Wasn't it Charlie Manson that siad "I'm not the law breaker, I'm the law maker!" American philosophy at its best!
Countercultivating Midnights
This world's a fuckin' stripmall! |
| Carolynanna |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 09:55:19
You'd have to admit that it seems that the rules do not apply to the USA.
__________
Don't believe the hype. |
| The King Of Karaoke |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 09:45:46
Erebus, do you really still support this administration?? Hasn't it become clear to you yet? The fat moronic people(?) of this country have been duped! Thanks in part to that ridiculous box in everyones living room. If it speaks the people of America listen and listen closely. Ooooh! Evildoers! Okay whatever you say all mighty box! I spend hours and hours in front of you everyday. Hasn't it become clear to you that we are the people being subjected to the war propaganda? By our elected officials mind you. Officials, that even with YOUR vote on their side still had to steal (Diebold?) another election to continue with the death and destruction they impart upon the rest of the world. And the whole time we as Americans feel we are doing something good as long as we are busy sticking plastic flags and yellow ribbons on our obnoxious SUV's. I'm sick of this fucking place! There is some sort of bizarre evil white bread christian cult trying to take over the world.
Um, this is good coffee!
Thank you, drive through.
I am not a number. I am a free man! |
| BrendanT |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 09:25:28
Another small fact that I have found of interest.
It is known that the CIA and US intelligence have used the infant mortality rate of third world nations to achieve a better understanding of where the next "hotspots" in the world might be. Once they have highlighted a few with resources that are of US interest then they deploy their "peacekeeping" soldiers and tanks to maintain control of the nation for the betterment of that particular nations people and for the rest of the world. Over the past five years the USA has had the largest increase of infant mortality rate in the world. When will the intelligence turn focus unto themselves?
God bless America. No theocracy?
Where are the militias? Soon to be scene I think. Anyone remember Timothy McVeigh? I think this time he/she will be a former resident of New Orleans. One of the forgotten citizens.
Protect Florida and the rich. Especially since Jeb is involved.
Give us our monies owed (softwood) and we will consider helping you in the future. What the hell, we will help no metter what. We need nothing in return.
Learn to eat with chopsticks America. It will make the Chinese assimilation easier.
Countercultivating Midnights
This world's a fuckin' stripmall! |
| Cult_Of_Frank |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 09:18:48
Erebus, I'm curious what you know, exactly, about the Sponsorship Scandal. Did you just google "canadian government corruption" or do you guys actually hear about this down there?
Also, if we're going to compare corrupt governments situation by situation, then shouldn't you be finding examples where Canada is adversly affecting the US or another country in which it is engaged in supposed free-trade, wherein Canada has been ruled against by pretty much every level of dispute mechanism and is STILL doing nothing about it? An internal crisis (and I don't think the scandal qualifies as that as much as the media enjoys attempting to blow it out of scope) is a different animal completely.
Happy searching.
"Join the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
| Newo |
Posted - 11/04/2005 : 04:13:48
Erebus, I don´t think the US is fascist. The leaders yes but not the people, well most of them (so are the leaders of my landmass so this isn´t a slight directed against you). On a Thomas Pynchon website I saw quoted a pressconference where Bush/his scriptwriter said "this war is about peace." Don´t you think when heads of state start quoting George Orwell it´s time to reevaluate the situation?
Peace (in the old sense of the word),
Owen
--
Buy your best friend flowers. Buy your lover a beer. Covet thy father. Covet thy neighbour's father. Honour thy lover's beer. Covet thy neighbour's father's wife's sister. Take her to bingo night. |
| BLT |
Posted - 11/03/2005 : 19:25:13
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
I declare, yet again, that there is nothing I covet more than Canadian citizenship.
You know what they say. When the going gets tough, the quitters are nowhere to be found.
I hope you get your citizenship. |
| Erebus |
Posted - 11/03/2005 : 19:02:58
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
the fascist theocracy I call home
It's one thing to be angry about the direction of one's country, but this is simply wrong. The US is neither fascist nor theocratic. Not even close and you know it. As somebody said, "You're entitled to your own opinion but you're not entitled to your own facts." |
| kathryn |
Posted - 11/03/2005 : 15:40:07
quote:
Originally posted by BrendanT
Where are you in our fine country?
Lovely Montreal
quote:
What is your business?
To investigate your claim that Canadian men invented
A Denys Arcand production exploring NAFTA and Canadian timberwood.
quote:
How long do you intend on staying?
Sadly, I have now returned to the fascist theocracy I call home, though I intend to return for two house-and-pet-sitting gigs later this month and next, as well as a Canadiens game (go Habs!).
quote:
Where are you coming from and will you have anything to declare?
I declare, yet again, that there is nothing I covet more than Canadian citizenship. Any chance you care to adopt me, Brendan? I make good snacks for eating while watching the game and can hum the theme to Hockey Night in Canada.
When we walked through Little Italy I saw my reflection come right off your face
I paint pictures to remember, you're too beautiful to put into words
|
| BrendanT |
Posted - 11/03/2005 : 13:51:13
Thank you for the spelling correction K. Being schooled in the spelling of our first nation peoples reserve names. Once again humbled.Where are you in our fine country? What is your business? How long do you intend on staying? Where are you coming from and will you have anything to declare?
Countercultivating Midnights
This world's a fuckin' stripmall! |
| Crispy Water |
Posted - 11/03/2005 : 10:52:22
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
Especially the ones in Edmonton.
I wish someone had told me this sooner.
Nothing is ever something. |
| kathryn |
Posted - 11/03/2005 : 10:42:14
quote:
Originally posted by BrendanT
Power Windows tour Kathryn? "Take off, to the Great White North!"
Permanent Waves (which tells you how old I am).
Since I am posting from your great nation this morning, may I correct your spelling? If I am not mistaken, it's Kashechewan?
When we walked through Little Italy I saw my reflection come right off your face
I paint pictures to remember, you're too beautiful to put into words
|
| jediroller |
Posted - 11/03/2005 : 06:34:26
A song for y'all Canadians:
BJ Snowden: "In Canada"
"Quit shouting those rerun songs at me! I'm doing what I want to do, and I don't care what you think you need!
—Play that song 'Jesus is the Answer'!
—Come up here on stage and play with my balls."
--Wesley Willis Vs. a Fan |
| Carolynanna |
Posted - 11/03/2005 : 06:32:37
quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
quote:
Originally posted by BrendanT
If you would like my opinion regarding the Gomery Report make a topic with it as the title. This topic was concerning the softwood lumber lie and the lying USA.
This is bogus.
I'm not justifying the sponsorship scandal but there's a big difference between $350 million and $5 billion.
__________
Don't believe the hype. |
| Carolynanna |
Posted - 11/03/2005 : 06:31:13
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
Especially the ones in Edmonton.
When we walked through Little Italy I saw my reflection come right off your face
I paint pictures to remember, you're too beautiful to put into words
Hey now!
__________
Don't believe the hype. |
| Cheeseman1000 |
Posted - 11/03/2005 : 06:13:37
quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
quote:
Originally posted by BrendanT
If you would like my opinion regarding the Gomery Report make a topic with it as the title. This topic was concerning the softwood lumber lie and the lying USA.
This is bogus.
I thought it was most excellent, dude.
I have joined the Cult Of Frank/And I have dearly paid |
| BrendanT |
Posted - 11/03/2005 : 06:08:15
Erebus, I can see that you are about as open-minded about paying debt and understanding the truth about current political situations that I am going to hazzard a guess that you are a cog in the USA Congress or maybe a state senator? Just a guess.
As far as our Edmonton ladies, please try and keep that secret under your hats. It is worth the drive to Alberta!
Canadian men in bed - we invented lying on our back. Do you know how hard it is to drink a beer while looking at the ceiling and having some Edmontonian movin' and shakin' on top! Very hard!
Power Windows tour Kathryn? "Take off, to the Great White North!"
Kasheshewan. Need I say anymore?
Honk if you like America!
Countercultivating Midnights
This world's a fuckin' stripmall! |
| kathryn |
Posted - 11/02/2005 : 20:03:04
And packs of Labbatts
When we walked through Little Italy I saw my reflection come right off your face
I paint pictures to remember, you're too beautiful to put into words
|
| floop |
Posted - 11/02/2005 : 19:57:54
it involves maple syrup |
| kathryn |
Posted - 11/02/2005 : 19:51:56
Oh, please, dish.
When we walked through Little Italy I saw my reflection come right off your face
I paint pictures to remember, you're too beautiful to put into words
|
| floop |
Posted - 11/02/2005 : 19:48:28
you don't want to know what i've heard about them |
| kathryn |
Posted - 11/02/2005 : 19:45:59
Especially the ones in Edmonton.
When we walked through Little Italy I saw my reflection come right off your face
I paint pictures to remember, you're too beautiful to put into words
|
| floop |
Posted - 11/02/2005 : 19:43:01
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn
You forgot the hockey, floop. How could you forget the hockey? Plus, I hear Canadian men rage in bed. Just a rumor I have heard.
When we walked through Little Italy I saw my reflection come right off your face
I paint pictures to remember, you're too beautiful to put into words
you're right. i apologize for that. i've also heard that Canadian women are easy.
|
