| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| floop |
Posted - 05/05/2005 : 14:38:09
i don't know if i agree with Ray on his theroy that if you're afraid of flying you're just afraid of yourself.
when i'm flying, i start thinking about the logistics of it, and how high in the air i am. and how i'm just sitting in a piece of metal. and how many moving parts there are in an airplane. it's all very literal
i'm afraid of the plane crashing and being sent to a terrifying, miserable death.
thank god for the airport bar |
| 35 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Erebus |
Posted - 05/08/2005 : 01:49:16
quote:
Originally posted by floop
if you were camping in the woods and an angry grizzly bear was trying to get into your tent, and you were afraid, are you afraid of the grizzly bear or are you afraid of yourself?
solid point |
| VoVat |
Posted - 05/07/2005 : 16:25:29
Maybe there really IS no grizzly bear. It's just your own mind.
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
| floop |
Posted - 05/07/2005 : 15:25:50
i think people are assuming that because i don't agree with Ray, i'm not seeing the deeper, philosophical implications of what he means by "afraid of ones self".. but in fact i do.
and still disagree.
fear of flying = fear of crashing in plane
if you were camping in the woods and an angry grizzly bear was trying to get into your tent, and you were afraid, are you afraid of the grizzly bear or are you afraid of yourself? |
| Erebus |
Posted - 05/07/2005 : 13:20:11
quote:
Originally posted by floop
i don't know if i agree with Ray on his theroy that if you're afraid of flying you're just afraid of yourself.
I'm surprised Frank didn't pursue this. Given that we as a community are rightly inclined to accord Ray due respect, perhaps we should think in terms of how this statement might make sense to him, and thereby to us. It reminds me of a professor who spoke of Socrates as a soldier who was able to behave properly in conditions of mortal danger especially because he did not think of the corporeal life as something worth covetting. Then again, Socrates and Plato believed in some sort of afterlife, which must have helped wiith devaluing this life that we know and, generally, covet. So, that said, what self is it that Ray would say we fear? A self that would disgrace itself in panic? A self that does not see its life as complete, however suddenly it may be ended? I agree with hints in the thread that in a certain profound sense all is a function of the self. The self is the totality of one's life, of one's experience, and so, in a sense both trivial and profound, to fear flying, and death, is to fear self, for all is of self, especially fear of death.
Sorry. Don't mean to appear pedantic, but Ray , to my mind, is probably onto something profound, but belying that assumption is the fact that he declined to expound. |
| VoVat |
Posted - 05/07/2005 : 12:41:35
Eh...Ray might be right about eating dirt and Turkish coffee without sugar, but I don't know that I can agree with him here. He might be right in certain cases, but I think making a blanket statement like that reeks of a gnostic, anti-material, power-of-positive-thinking, self-help philosophy.
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
| PixieSteve |
Posted - 05/07/2005 : 12:18:33
well that's stupid. all fear comes from within because it's an emotion.
what he actually said, at least how floop phrased it, was that being afraid of flying is being afraid of yourself. that's what's being contested.
 Oh let it linger |
| VoVat |
Posted - 05/07/2005 : 12:14:44
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Daisy Girl
I do see a point to the theory because basically everything comes from within you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
but engine failure comes from without you. same for plane snapping off..
But FEAR of those things comes from within you, right?
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
| PixieSteve |
Posted - 05/07/2005 : 12:07:39
cum comes from within you. maybe if you came on the pilot's face he might lose control and crash?
Oh let it linger |
| the_black_rider |
Posted - 05/07/2005 : 12:01:35
Get real. The only thing that comes "from within you"
is gas. And that ain't downing a plane.
 ...everything is new... |
| floop |
Posted - 05/07/2005 : 11:33:37
quote:
Originally posted by Daisy Girl
I do see a point to the theory because basically everything comes from within you.
but engine failure comes from without you. same for plane snapping off..
sorry, still don't buy it
(with all due respect to Ray) |
| VoVat |
Posted - 05/07/2005 : 11:23:52
quote:
When I've been closer to smash my car against another driver, I'm more scared to survive and have to run all the legal actions that follow a car accident rather than a quick, painful death.
I know what you mean.
It may sound silly, but I'd prefer to die in a way that isn't my fault, and doesn't cause harm to anyone else.
I was all out of luck, like a duck that died. I was all out of juice, like a moose denied. |
| Surfer Rosa |
Posted - 05/07/2005 : 01:24:17
Turbulance makes me laugh. |
| shineoftheever |
Posted - 05/07/2005 : 01:06:44
quote:
Originally posted by Scarla O
http://aviation-safety.net/statistics/worst/worst.php?list=worstground
1) pick your crash
2) look for CVR transcript (if available)
The quote above is from:
http://aviation-safety.net/investigation/cvr/transcripts/cvr_py764.php
thanks scarla, great stuff. |
| Daisy Girl |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 22:53:46
I do see a point to the theory because basically everything comes from within you.
Luckily I am not afraid to fly but am of some other things. For a while the really teeny commuter jets freaked the living you know what out of me. Around 911 I got a little paranoid about some of the passangers. I have been on flights w/really bad turbulence.
But mostly I think I am not afraid because I flew at a very young age. It was seen as super fun... looking at all the tiny "ant" people... so its ok with me. |
| floop |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 18:37:46
except for those times when it snaps off |
| Cult_Of_Frank |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 17:13:47
quote:
Originally posted by Brackish
Do you know how to break a paperclip? You keep bending it back and forth, back and forth until the stress makes it just snap. When I'm flying I always think about that, and how the wings of the plane are being pulled up and down, and up and down by turbulence, and how stress is building up on the connection to the body of the plane and will eventually snap. Maybe I should stop thinking about that. You could say I don't really like flying.
If it helps you, an airplane's wings aren't really like that at all. First of all, there is not a single point of 'bending' if you will. Rather, the whole wing moves in little bits (it's designed to flex). This means there is not a point of stress or pivot where the wing would snap. Secondly, the wings don't really move all that much. They just move first and pull the fuselage along for the ride. So if there's a sudden updraft, the wings will absorb some of the shock, generate the lift (with the wings bending), and pull the plane along up.
 "Joined the Cult of Frank / And you'll be enlightened" |
| 50 Pence |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 12:04:50
bare joks
Blats |
| PixieSteve |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 12:02:54
yeah, you know. did that flight before last (out to spain). couple of pints, felt a lot more relaxed.
Oh let it linger |
| floop |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 11:35:25
try making a pit stop at the airport bar before your flight. i find it makes the whole experience much more enjoyable |
| Brackish |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 11:34:08
Do you know how to break a paperclip? You keep bending it back and forth, back and forth until the stress makes it just snap. When I'm flying I always think about that, and how the wings of the plane are being pulled up and down, and up and down by turbulence, and how stress is building up on the connection to the body of the plane and will eventually snap. Maybe I should stop thinking about that. You could say I don't really like flying. |
| n/a |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 10:48:51
floop, I'm affraid of meat eaters in general!
Some times I cry for the sane |
| floop |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 10:29:20
quote:
Originally posted by rita
I'm also not affraid of death, I'm affraid of suffering while dying.
i bet you're afraid of sharks though |
| Carolynanna |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 08:57:42
See Erebus, thats how you kill a thread...;)
__________
This is the war and not the warning. |
| Erebus |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 08:46:28
The only way I can fly is to actively hope that the plane crashes, all the while imagining it being ripped to shreds all around me upon impact. For me flying is possible only as attempted suicide. |
| Carolynanna |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 07:39:50
Call me naive but I'm still amazed that planes can be up in the air flying. They're so freaking big and heavy it just seems like it shouldn't be possible. Another one of those things that I don't want to learn about because it will cease to be like magic to me.
__________
This is the war and not the warning. |
| zub_the_goat |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 06:40:40
Im ok, as long as im sitting in an aisle seat so i feel i can escape if i need to, i know if the plane was about to crash, being able to run up and down secreaming wont help but it makes me feel better, and last time i was on a plane next to a crazy lady who kept telling me she'd had a dream the palne was going to crash....then we hit the turbulance lots of fun
I wish i had a wooden heart that i could set on fire... |
| n/a |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 02:51:16
I'm also not affraid of death, I'm affraid of suffering while dying.
I had almost a panic attack when I went to Azores, it seemed like the plane was going to land on the sea.
Some times I cry for the sane |
| whoreatthedoor |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 02:36:22
When I've been closer to smash my car against another driver, I'm more scared to survive and have to run all the legal actions that follow a car accident rather than a quick, painful death.
I'm the laziest man on earth.
El amor es la distancia más larga entre un punto y otro |
| Monsieur |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 02:02:28
I am not really afraid of death. It's funny, I had this conversation with my ex girlfriend already, and she couldn't believe I was not afraid of dying.
Last summer I had a very turbulent flight with a bunch of friends, and I was the only one not to panic. I thought about death, I clearly saw the possibility of us dying, and I was not afraid, I just thought, well, if it is time to go, it is time to go.
I will show you fear in a handful of dust |
| Scarla O |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 01:40:15
http://aviation-safety.net/statistics/worst/worst.php?list=worstground
1) pick your crash
2) look for CVR transcript (if available)
The quote above is from:
http://aviation-safety.net/investigation/cvr/transcripts/cvr_py764.php |
| shineoftheever |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 01:20:27
post link please scarla.
|
| Scarla O |
Posted - 05/06/2005 : 01:12:32
There's a website with transcripts from the cockpit voice recorders of crashed planes.
"Captain: Tell'em to put the runway lights bright.
1st Officer: <radio communication> Please put the runway lights bright.
Radio Tower: Right on.
1st Officer: Three hundred feet.
Captain: <Expletive>
1st Officer: Two hundred feet
Captain: Okay MDA.
Captain: I'll level it out here right here.
1st Officer: One fifty.
Flight Engineer: Pull up
- (sound of first impact)
- (sound of momentary power interruption to the CVR)
- (sound of stick shacker starts and continues unill the end of the recording)
Flight Engineer: Pull up.
Flight Engineer: That's it I'm dead.
- (end of recording)"
|
| floop |
Posted - 05/05/2005 : 19:29:13
quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
And that would be a terrible death, I'm sure. You'd be screaming in horror with hundreds of other people for a loooooong time before you hit the ground. Or water.
weeeeeeeeeeeeee! |
| Chris Knight |
Posted - 05/05/2005 : 18:55:21
I think what Bradbury meant by being "afraid of yourself" is that you're afraid of fate and of progress in human travel. There are many, many roads to death and an airplane crash is just one of them. Another one is an all-encompassing fear that prevents people from fully appreciating their time on Earth.
That said, I haven't been on a plane since I was very young. |
| shineoftheever |
Posted - 05/05/2005 : 18:30:53
quote:
Originally posted by starmekitten
I've never been on a plane
i've never come on a plane. 
the mile-high club awaits my arrival.
the only thing i get nervous about is the take-off and landing, other than that it's all cool.
|
