| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Daisy Girl |
Posted - 11/02/2004 : 20:10:02
Anyone else completely board with the coverage tonight? Right now the highlight was making fun of Dan Rather when he was saying "they couldn't get it up" when refering to a video tape. OK, I know my name is not Beavis or Butthead.
It's also amusing watching all the drunk people act silly infront of the camera when they show the local live shots of election headquarters.
It looks like it's going to be a long haul....
http://www.campervanbeethoven.com/gearstolen/ |
| 35 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Erebus |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 08:54:57
Of course I intend Machiavellian as high praise. "The Prince" is a work of pure genius. |
| Cult_Of_Frank |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 00:33:13
Holy crap I'd typed out a large reply and hit 'esc' by accident and it's gone. I'll answer some of the private social net/preventative crime stuff again tomorrow. Unless someone wiser beats me to it.
I'm relatively convinced that you, Dallas, myself, and many others have beat the Bush thing to death since Iraq started, so as always we'll have to agree to disagree. :)
I hope I'm not Machiavellian. I'll take pragmatic, though.
 "Join the Cult of Frank 2.0 / And you'll be enlightened (free for 1.x members)" |
| Erebus |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 19:52:16
An insightful analysis, with which I mostly agree. I would suggest that a lack of broad government run social welfare programs needn’t result in rampant crime, but I do agree about the crumbs, which in large part amount to simple bribes. As an alternative to government mandated programs there could be greater private generosity, which you seem to undervalue, on the part of those more altruistically disposed. And it could be the case that the impoverished would show greater civil, as opposed to criminal, resourcefulness if circumstances dictate. In conjunction with greater civil effort on the part of the underclass, an alternative to fighting crime by spending more on law enforcement could be enforcing greater penalties so as to make crime less cost-effective, not with a goal of punishing more criminals more harshly but instead to achieve the opposite, greater deterrence and therefore less punishment.
I disagree that Bush is far-right, for today’s Repubs are almost as socialist as the Dems, necessarily so simply to get elected. And I see Bush’s foreign policy as a simple case of enough-is-enough; delay and impotent talk has achieved little more than playing into the hands of those who would take advantage the naivete and good will of civil society.
Having said that, I especially applaud the pragmatic, somewhat Machiavellian eye you cast on social dynamics. |
| Cult_Of_Frank |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 18:02:27
quote:
Originally posted by KimStanleyRobinson
quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
The left bears responsibility for the lion's share of lost rights and freedoms, in the form of theft via taxes, forced conformity to morality as the socialist sees it, and loss of free speech rights. It is the left that mans the ranks of the thought police.
It is a big boat we float on now. Not everyone can row. You can't just chuck em over the side.
Taxes, taxes, taxes, God, God, God.
Money and God are what the right want. This translates into control.
It seems to me that on either side, it's about control. The left want government control, the right want corporate control.
Life is a balance, and this is true of everything in it. I don't understand how anyone's philosophy can be that extreme leftism or extreme rightism would lead to a better world. It seems to me they just lead to two variations of the same thing.
The reason for social programs is not really about keeping everyone equal. It never has been, except maybe in textbooks. It's about converting crime into money. That is to say that those who can't work, don't want to work, who are ill or under extreme circumstances, are not forced into crime to feed themselves/get food/whatever.
I believe Erebus is a fan of social darwinism, but that philosophy would lead to one thing: rampant crime. It might work if the lazy had no survival instincts and rather than work, died. But that won't happen. We are programmed at our core not to let that happen. Instead, they would steal, kill, threaten, ransom, etc to get their money the easiest way they see possible. The only people that would die are the people who can't work/steal/whatever.
So rather than allow crime to be rampant, we throw the poor a crumb. Enough to hopefully sustain those who can't make a living and to keep the wolves at bay. The alternative is to spend that same money and then more on police, military, lawyers, judiciary, and prisons.
There are programs in place to keep socialism in check, particularly in the US. Work for welfare is one example. It's not perfect, but it's something. The point is to keep society, which balances on the most haphazard of fulcrums, balanced and functional. Far right, in my mind, doesn't work. But this is where George Bush sits. Even moreso in his foreign policy.
Far left does not work, either. There needs to be motivation for people to work hard, or they won't. It's human nature, and you'd have to be a fool to work your ass off to get the same wage as if you slept through your shift. So, we strike a middle ground. Somewhere where there is a safety net for those who fall or jump, somewhere where there is incentive to work hard and make more. Somewhere where no one entity controls our every actions. Whether it's government (and isn't government under the guise of 'national security' still governemtn) or two or three corporations that control your life.
That's my input for the moment.
"Join the Cult of Frank 2.0 / And you'll be enlightened (free for 1.x members)" |
| VoVat |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 16:37:12
quote:
Bush is the most prone-to-classify, the most secretive president in the 20th century.
My love of nit-picking forces me to point out that Bush wasn't President during the 20th century. (Well, A Bush was, but the context makes it clear that the sentence isn't talking about Dear Old Dad.)
quote:
your holidays? like what, name me one that you invented?
You mean you didn't attend any of the wild Fourth of July and Presidents' Day parties in the UK? You missed out!
"Signature quotes are so lame." --Nathan |
| n/a |
Posted - 11/04/2004 : 16:31:32
quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
quote:
Originally posted by harringk
quote:
Originally posted by Tre
I despise racism of any sort so I jumped because I thought this was where you were aiming (a la harringk)
I'm a racist?
I guess Tre knows WHO you are!
very funny erebus, you ever get dizzy way up there on your high horse?
I'm just tired of people judging other people on the basis of whatever stupid 'type' is assigned to them rather than getting measure of the individual, it seems very backwards to me and I find generalisations depressing. Actually, I've not slept since tuesday so tonight I'm just tired and I find everything depressing. So yeah, mock away at the fact I don't put a lot of merit on neat media labels, maybe I have got it wrong, I mean I thought you were alright for, you know, one of them
[edit] hmm I might be being harsh, I don't mean to. Not really.
Frank Black ate my hamster |
| n/a |
Posted - 11/04/2004 : 16:13:03
quote:
Originally posted by harringk
I prefer the label: politically clueless surrealist.
whatever floats your boat
hehehe
Frank Black ate my hamster |
| harringk |
Posted - 11/04/2004 : 16:08:15
quote:
Originally posted by Tre
quote:
Originally posted by harringk
quote:
Originally posted by Tre
I despise racism of any sort so I jumped because I thought this was where you were aiming (a la harringk)
I'm a racist?
sometimes you aim in that direction is what I meant you walk a fine line
Frank Black ate my hamster
I prefer the label: non-politically correct realist. |
| n/a |
Posted - 11/04/2004 : 15:25:02
quote:
Originally posted by harringk
quote:
Originally posted by Tre
I despise racism of any sort so I jumped because I thought this was where you were aiming (a la harringk)
I'm a racist?
sometimes you aim in that direction is what I meant you walk a fine line
Frank Black ate my hamster |
| KimStanleyRobinson |
Posted - 11/04/2004 : 14:11:23
quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
KSR - This surprises. I support national security and despise socialism, to be blunt about it. That's why I'm glad Kerry went down. Why would you think I think otherwise? I have been quite explicit about where I stand.
The left bears responsibility for the lion's share of lost rights and freedoms, in the form of theft via taxes, forced conformity to morality as the socialist sees it, and loss of free speech rights. It is the left that mans the ranks of the thought police.
It is a big boat we float on now. Not everyone can row. You can't just chuck em over the side.
Taxes, taxes, taxes, God, God, God.
Money and God are what the right want. This translates into control.
"Forced conformity to morality as the socialist sees it" I am taking to mean laws preventing discrimation based on race, creed, sex, etc. I'm probably wrong, but I'll speak to that anyway.
The much maligned 'political correctness' movement leaves a bad taste in some people's mouths, but it changed things for the better; it brought awareness to people who desparately needed it. 'Media' means something completely different than it did 50 years ago. I do not vote that the controls be tightened, I vote that the media understand the power it has over the vast numbers of empty heads that do what their TVs tell them and use that power to lift these people up rather than keep them where they are...but alas - this is like asking a junkie to shoot his dealer.
I'm just real fucking depressed about it all, man...and I'm not very intelligent or clear headed -that shows I know. Never was.
They are the right wing and they have been given too much power and I don't like it.
I wouldn't have minded the congress staying the same or even the republicans gaining some if we had been able to put Kerry in the white house. With this kind of mandate and the possibility of who W will appoint to the supreme court, they're going to be a steamroller and everyone who isn't like them is going to get flattened.
There are just so many disturbing implications of an outcome like this one...I can't clear my head enough to even start to lay them out.
Its just not good. Not good at all.
Frank Black: The telecaster... It is simply the best one!
|
| darwin |
Posted - 11/04/2004 : 13:49:29
quote:
Originally posted by Erebus
I cannot predict what the Moral Majority will try to do over the next four years, but I do know what the Dems have done over the last seventy.
Bush will now be Ralph Reed's bitch. The fundamentalists seem to have been satisifed with being behind the scene (i.e. being hidden during the Republican convention while pro-Choice Republicans gave the speeches), but after they turned out so strongly in FL and OH they want more of the glory. The first Supreme Court nomination should be interesting. You might not end up liking what you wished for (i.e more creation science/Intelligent Design, more Patroit Act, more restrictions on personal freedoms). |
| Erebus |
Posted - 11/04/2004 : 13:35:55
KSR - This surprises. I support national security and despise socialism, to be blunt about it. That's why I'm glad Kerry went down. Why would you think I think otherwise? I have been quite explicit about where I stand.
The left bears responsibility for the lion's share of lost rights and freedoms, in the form of theft via taxes, forced conformity to morality as the socialist sees it, and loss of free speech rights. It is the left that mans the ranks of the thought police.
I cannot predict what the Moral Majority will try to do over the next four years, but I do know what the Dems have done over the last seventy. |
| KimStanleyRobinson |
Posted - 11/04/2004 : 13:21:49
I think you guys think this is a 'great day' for America because you understand that it is not a president that was elected. It is an ideology - it is a movement towards a more pious, righteous and christianly holy populace that was elected. The people voted base on moral/faith issues. The elected will now deliver the prize in the form of more state-sanctioned christian-based legislation - among other attempt to hide the more ugly and real parts of this population - like makeup over a bruise.
YOU WILL LOSE MORE OF YOUR FREEDOMS BECAUSE OF WHO YOU VOTED FOR.
"Live Simply So That Others Might Simply Live" seems a distant memory here in America.
The outcome of this election is patriarchial, arrogant, ignorant and embarrasing.
Frank Black: The telecaster... It is simply the best one!
|
| Erebus |
Posted - 11/04/2004 : 12:12:43
quote:
Originally posted by harringk
quote:
Originally posted by Tre
I despise racism of any sort so I jumped because I thought this was where you were aiming (a la harringk)
I'm a racist?
I guess Tre knows WHO you are! |
| harringk |
Posted - 11/04/2004 : 12:08:43
quote:
Originally posted by Tre
I despise racism of any sort so I jumped because I thought this was where you were aiming (a la harringk)
I'm a racist? |
| n/a |
Posted - 11/04/2004 : 11:10:07
Sigh. OK.
Your example of cultural distrubances, the headscalf issue in france. From what I gather this is not about disabling or denouncing the religious or racial beliefs of the individual and more about retaining equality in the classroom, keeping religion out of things because as we know religion has a tendancy to blur matters somewhat. In some ways I can understand why this action was taken. In this country the British National Party is unfortunately still around and still horribly active. The post 9/11 press and the press around Iraq and nearly ALL press involving terrorism at the moment depressingly carries the word Islam or Muslim flying high. Racism sickens me, fucking sickens me, and at the moment the climate for it is high, factors escelate and blame is laid and it is crazy. There have been attacks against mosques, beatings of individuals because of their race alone. People who have lived in Britain for generations but because they are Muslim are targets, removal of the head scalf from the classroom could be viewed as removal of a label, a target you know? Rather than the stamping down of another belief system. I don't know what the motivation was, this is postulating here.
Immigration in this country again has been an issue EXPLODED by the tabloids. The usual tack of attack is "ra ra ra illigal immigrants come for our benefits come for the houses come for the money bugger over the system cause trouble not in my neighbourhood blah blah blah" Whilst we all know these people exist, that they do (like the sad story in the news at the moment) I would argue this is by far the minority. How would you like to be pulled from your country, knowing if you didn't you might die, sent somewhere else where you don't know anyone, you have no friends and family you don't even speak the language and then find out that you're being blamed for everything thats wrong with the country you have moved to. In your country you were qualified and had a good job and suddenly you are little more that a labourer if you are lucky. It's ridiculous, again a lack of empathy with fellow human beings and breeding of this fucking unbelievable race hate is obscuring the real issue. Immigratio has not fucked this country, and if it has for what reason did this sudden upsurge in the need for immigration occur? It's a distraction, like the war is a distraction, take a long hard look at other domestic issues, ignore those popular media issue and have a good look, it's fucked. It may seem that the immigrants do nt wish to adopt to british culture as it is, but it in my honest opinion has more to do with British culture not wanting fuck all to do with the immigrants.
Maybe I added a dash of the Hitler, I don't know you from adam, and it's your use of the word nationalism that spiked me, it's a fucking ugly word I think. Your whole post seemed to be a make them fit with us kind of a rant, and like I say, I despise racism of any sort so I jumped because I thought this was where you were aiming (a la harringk)
So yeah, short philosphy of tre for you. I don't care what your name is, I don't care where you went to school, I don't care how much you earn, I don't care what class you are in, I don't care what the colour of your skin is, I don't care which God you pray to, if you even pray to one at all, I don't care where you were born, I don't care what clothes you wear, I don't care if you are purple with three heads four arms a green god damned mowhawk and a ring through your nose. If you're a good person I like you, if you're not then out of my god damned face. I can not abide discrimination on the basis of WHAT a person is rather than figuring out WHO the person is
now, I have to finish my essay.
Frank Black ate my hamster |
| PixieSteve |
Posted - 11/04/2004 : 10:09:41
i don't think he meant it as a racial slur. it's sometimes confusing because, like black people and the word "nigger" they tend to use it amoungst themselves. |
| Stuart |
Posted - 11/03/2004 : 16:50:14
quote:
Originally posted by Dallas
Well Tre, I think you are so suspicious of me that you are reading my post and adding a dash of Hitler to it.
We talk about their approaches to their religion (one guy is an older Paki, the other a 30 something Turk)
You argue that Tre is adding a dash of Hitler to your comments, then you defend yourself and then you use a racial slur to describe a Pakistani...... what the fuck?
Just the good ole boys, never meaning no harm,
that all you ever saw
been in trouble with the law,
since the day they were born |
| Stuart |
Posted - 11/03/2004 : 16:35:31
quote:
Originally posted by harringk
Man I loved reading this topic. I'll probably read the whole thing a few more times today just to make me smile. When are you crybabies going to realize that YOU ARE THE OUTSIDERS, YOU ARE THE MINORITY. You act like there are just a few toothless people in texas that control the election, but the fact is the map is almost completely RED! You control most of the major population centers on the coasts and midwest and that is basically it. Just because you are a majority on this forum you think that your misguided views are mainstream...they're not.
This was not a landslide, but it was not a close election either. The American people have spoken and you better get used to it because the Democractic party is self-destructing. Repubs retain the white house, and pick up seats in the house and the senate. With more conservative (read: in line with the majority of americans) supreme court judges on the way. This is a great day for the United States!
No offense mate, but this is nothing to be proud of. It just goes to show how misinformed the Americans are. Really, the rest of the world from today onwards will not be able to take the American people seriously after they elected that fool into office for another 4 years. Sadly I think with Bush in again I think this will cause much more terrorism problems for you guys.... I really don't understand the way of thinking of the American majority, it just seems very very wrong.
I cannot believe that people went for Bush for religious reasons. Do people really look at this guy and think of him as a sound religious leader, after he starts an illegal war, bangs innocent people up in a concentration camp for an unspecicified amount of time with no evidence against them?
This is complete and utter madness. Lets hope for a miracle in that Tony Blair, the prick that he is, sees the errors of his ways and decided to bond closer to Europe.
Just the good ole boys, never meaning no harm,
that all you ever saw
been in trouble with the law,
since the day they were born |
| Stuart |
Posted - 11/03/2004 : 16:26:21
quote:
Originally posted by Ebb Vicious
it has to do with people just being fucking uneducated idiots.
I totally agree.
Just the good ole boys, never meaning no harm,
that all you ever saw
been in trouble with the law,
since the day they were born |
| Dallas |
Posted - 11/03/2004 : 14:40:40
I always take a step back, nod my head approvingly and then give myself a great big pat on the back every time I work it into a sentence. Its life affirming. |
| Cheeseman1000 |
Posted - 11/03/2004 : 14:37:54
Quality. That one is so going into my everyday vernacular. To half-sell a duck, wicked.
"You ever seen a man say goodbye to a shoe?"
"Yes, once..." |
| Dallas |
Posted - 11/03/2004 : 14:34:52
See #1. Glad I could help.
Main Entry: ca·nard
Pronunciation: k&-'närd also -'när
Function: noun
Etymology: French, literally, duck; in sense 1, from Middle French vendre des canards à moitié to cheat, literally, to half-sell ducks
1 : a false or unfounded report or story; especially : a fabricated report
2 : an airplane with horizontal stabilizing and control surfaces in front of supporting surfaces; also : a small airfoil in front of the wing of an aircraft that increases the aircraft's stability |
| Cheeseman1000 |
Posted - 11/03/2004 : 14:32:05
quote:
Originally posted by Dallas
Its the old separate but equal canard.
Canard? Like the duck?
"You ever seen a man say goodbye to a shoe?"
"Yes, once..." |
| n/a |
Posted - 11/03/2004 : 14:26:55
The tabloid press create issues
Frank Black ate my hamster |
| Dallas |
Posted - 11/03/2004 : 14:18:28
Well Tre, I think you are so suspicious of me that you are reading my post and adding a dash of Hitler to it.
Pure races is the absolute opposite of what I am talking about. Its not good for any state to simply have idealogically disparate populations within it that have no ties that bind. Its the old separate but equal canard.
Much of Europe carries the risk of bankruptcy without robust immigration. I was trying to see what people in Europe thought about the social implications of that immigration. From what I have read from afar, it seems like there are issues there.
I would put my knowledge of Islam against just about anybody who isnt practicing the religion. I have a couple of muslim friends and have been to mosque. We talk about their approaches to their religion (one guy is an older Paki, the other a 30 something Turk), how it fits into a modern society, their opinion about the bastardization of Islam by the wahhabi's, the cynical, corrosive use of Islam by the Saudi's, etc. |
| Ebb Vicious |
Posted - 11/03/2004 : 13:59:11
that flag looks pretty good except it's missing the microsoft logo. tsk tsk. |
| n/a |
Posted - 11/03/2004 : 13:50:38
quote:
Originally posted by Dallas
No Tre not at all. Am I misreading things? Are the muslim immigrants adopting Euro culture and developing nationalism? From what I have been reading that is not the case in France, Spain and UK. Correct me if I am wrong. I would love to hear some opinions on this from people who live there and see it every day.
nationalism is a good thing? I don't think so. I lived in Wales for three years and whilst I was there nationalism took a nasty turn, english students getting beaten up having their houses spray painted. Nationalism as far as I am concerned is racism. To generalise no I guess whatever "British culture" is they aren't throwing themselves full force into drinking lager and wearing burberry, but also to generalise most people aren't making the effort to understand the situation the immigrants are in, yeah you get people sneaking in with no good reason to abuse the system but it's the minority, and it's this minority that cause discrimination for the majority. I mean, how much do you really know about islam? apart from what the TV has told you?
National identity, I dunno it's ridiculous, you might as well talk of pure races and segmentation, build a wall around the country and keep everyone out. The world is a big place and the differences between people are as many as there are people on the earth and you either embrace it or wall yourself off.
Frank Black ate my hamster |
| LBF1976 |
Posted - 11/03/2004 : 13:42:20
Iraq's proposed new flag
Floops quesedillas zijn te vergelijken met het likken van fatsige Albert's aars nadat hij een fles laxeermiddel heeft leeggedronken. |
| Dallas |
Posted - 11/03/2004 : 13:39:25
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Dallas
Dont you guys in Europe celebrate WarPig day?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
yes apparently it is november 2nd.
also this is how you use the board's built in quote system, dallas.
Oh, I never go to the 'post reply' screen with all of the format options.
Thanks Ebb, you are my new bestest friend on the board! Sorry KOK, but, what have you done for me lately? |
| whoreatthedoor |
Posted - 11/03/2004 : 13:24:44
quote:
Originally posted by darwin
Is it true that increasingly people in Europe consider themselves Europeans rather than French or German or ect?
No
If you fall I will catch you, I'll be waiting... |
| Ebb Vicious |
Posted - 11/03/2004 : 13:23:26
quote:
Originally posted by Dallas
Dont you guys in Europe celebrate WarPig day?
yes apparently it is november 2nd.
also this is how you use the board's built in quote system, dallas. |
| Dallas |
Posted - 11/03/2004 : 13:19:39
Dont you guys in Europe celebrate WarPig day? |
| PixieSteve |
Posted - 11/03/2004 : 13:17:49
which holidays?
 I joined the Cult of Pi / Because it's cool |
| Carolynanna |
Posted - 11/03/2004 : 13:01:06
quote:
Originally posted by harringk
Like I give a fuck what the rest of the world thinks. They're more corrupt than we are. If they hate us so much why do they emulate us and adopt our culture. Why do they worship our celebritites, listen to our music, watch our movies and celebrate our holidays?
Do we have a choice?
__________
Godfather of nothing, ancesters of none.
Black glasses and feedback took my sense of fun.
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