| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Carolynanna |
Posted - 11/01/2004 : 15:07:18
I was checking (hehe) the kids' candy last night,
when I noticed a few different cards and a cassette tape.
It was a tape of hymns and the cards all had various different christian messages and things like where to buy christian kids' books etc.
I thought it was in poor taste, any opinions?
__________
Godfather of nothing, ancesters of none.
Black glasses and feedback took my sense of fun.
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| 35 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| VoVat |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 14:11:37
quote:
but if it was kept bottled up wouldn't guys explode?
No, it would come out involuntarily while we slept. I assume no one is trying to make wet dreams illegal.
quote:
But, in my experience, good discussions rarely happen on message boards and on this medium it's pretty tiring.
So, is a "good discussion" one where people agree with you, or what?
quote:
Being opposed to abortion has nothing to do with these other issues, abortion supporters always try to draw these parallels and they aren't relevant. War sucks, nobody is Pro-war, civilian deaths are an unfortunate, unavoidable consequence of war.
Couldn't you say abortions are an unfortunate, unavoidable consequence of breaking condoms and failing pills? It seems to make about as much sense to me.
"Signature quotes are so lame." --Nathan |
| n/a |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 13:41:06
Oh man I'm never going to get my essay written am I...
Frank Black ate my hamster |
| Cult_Of_Frank |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 13:26:36
Also, regarding your stance on ending someone's life whether through proof of guilt in some sort of crime or fighting in a war, when is their death justified? When is it okay for one human to kill another? I think we can all agree that nobody is talking civilians here. So what, then? As soon as they have the capability to kill? Once they have attempted to kill?
 "Join the Cult of Frank 2.0 / And you'll be enlightened (free for 1.x members)" |
| Cult_Of_Frank |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 13:24:02
So when does a cell, whether it's an unfertilized egg, a skin cell, a cell that has just split into two, a collection of cells that form an organ, or a collection of organs that form a human, become a human life? When is it not? What about contraceptives? Where do you stand?
"Join the Cult of Frank 2.0 / And you'll be enlightened (free for 1.x members)" |
| n/a |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 13:21:59
No, no surprise, you haven't given me one of those for a while.
So, it's ok to cause death as long as you didn't mean them to die or they are not a bunch of unborn unconscious non sentient cells that might be a person or unless they were real bad then they deserve to die so all life isn't equal at all? Have I got it right yet?
Frank Black ate my hamster |
| harringk |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 13:04:09
quote:
Originally posted by Tre
If pro life is your stance I figure you've got to be pro ALL life not just the "ickle babies" otherwise it's plain hypocrosy
It's not hypocritical at all. I support the death penalty (big surprise to you I'm sure). Being opposed to abortion has nothing to do with these other issues, abortion supporters always try to draw these parallels and they aren't relevant. War sucks, nobody is Pro-war, civilian deaths are an unfortunate, unavoidable consequence of war. In the case of Iraq, civilians haven't been targeted (except by the terrorists/insurgents or whatever you want to call them). That is quite different than the deliberate targeting of an unborn baby.
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| n/a |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 12:50:43
Haha come off it harringk, open a beer go to my thread and tell me how much you love me, you know you want to.
Being pro war I am afraid pretty much means you're accepting that people will die and that's ok because that is war and you've got to look at the bigger picture. If pro life is your stance I figure you've got to be pro ALL life not just the "ickle babies" otherwise it's plain hypocrosy
Frank Black ate my hamster |
| harringk |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 12:48:35
quote:
Originally posted by VoVat
So it's pointless to talk about something unless you can change someone's mind? I seem to recall your saying that before, too. First of all, I disagree with that. Second, if you really believe that, how come you've made 194 posts? I doubt any one of those have changed anybody's mind.
No, I guess it's not completely pointless, I enjoy a good discussion with people of differing opinions. But, in my experience, good discussions rarely happen on message boards and on this medium it's pretty tiring. And you're right, I doubt any of my posts have changed anbody's mind about anything, that was never really my goal. I just happened to stumble across this forum at the same time I had some free time in my life and thought I'd offer a different point of view than I had seen expressed here. |
| harringk |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 12:40:33
quote:
Originally posted by Tre
I'm sorry the guy who thought it was ok to kill innocent Iraqi civillians in an illegal war is preaching about moral absolutes??
oh my golly if this isn't the funniest thing I've read in a long time
Frank Black ate my hamster
yeah Tre good point, I'm all for killing innocent civilians. The more the better I say. I wish we would just drop a few dozen nukes in Iraq in get it over with. In fact I'm considering volunteering to go over there so I can get my chance to shoot a few women and children, I've always wanted to do that. |
| VoVat |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 12:26:57
quote:
I'm not going to debate it anyway. What is the point? Facts, reason and logic aren't going to change anybody's mind about this issue.
So it's pointless to talk about something unless you can change someone's mind? I seem to recall your saying that before, too. First of all, I disagree with that. Second, if you really believe that, how come you've made 194 posts? I doubt any one of those have changed anybody's mind.
quote:
If you don't believe in moral absolutes you can justify anything.
Maybe, but you'd have an awfully tough time of it in some cases. I don't really believe in absolute morality. I think some moral values are more or less universal, but even those COULD be changed, given the situation.
Of course, as Tre suggests, it's often the people who yak about morals being absolute who are the first to go against those morals, and justify this in ways that are kind of ridiculous when you think about it. If "It's not murder when the government decides we're at war!" isn't moral relativism, I don't know what is.
"Signature quotes are so lame." --Nathan |
| n/a |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 12:11:27
I'm sorry the guy who thought it was ok to kill innocent Iraqi civillians in an illegal war is preaching about moral absolutes??
oh my golly if this isn't the funniest thing I've read in a long time
Frank Black ate my hamster |
| harringk |
Posted - 11/06/2004 : 10:02:41
quote:
Originally posted by Cult_Of_Frank
If we could discuss this without using terms like baby-killing, murder, and so on, the discussion might be interesting.
"Join the Cult of Frank 2.0 / And you'll be enlightened (free for 1.x members)"
Yeah good idea. Why don't we discuss wars without using the words soldier or bombs. Or maybe politics without saying liberal or conservative.
I'm not going to debate it anyway. What is the point? Facts, reason and logic aren't going to change anybody's mind about this issue. If you don't believe in moral absolutes you can justify anything. |
| n/a |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 18:21:00
but if it was kept bottled up wouldn't guys explode?
or was I fed a line with that....
Frank Black ate my hamster |
| VoVat |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 18:17:24
quote:
Bit O' Honeys kick ass, dude.
Well, maybe they do. I've always thought they looked gross, so I don't think I've ever actually tried one.
quote:
wanking and menstruation aren't banned by the pro lifers are they?
I think some of them would try to ban the former, if they thought they could get away with it.
"Signature quotes are so lame." --Nathan |
| Cult_Of_Frank |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 18:05:56
If we could discuss this without using terms like baby-killing, murder, and so on, the discussion might be interesting.
"Join the Cult of Frank 2.0 / And you'll be enlightened (free for 1.x members)" |
| n/a |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 16:14:57
Killing is still the wrong word, to kill something it has to be alive and sentient, embryo, bunch of cells whatever is not a baby, it could be a baby but so could every spermatazoa in your sack and every egg in the ovary, wanking and menstruation aren't banned by the pro lifers are they? Late abortions are more questionable when viability becomes an issue. But these cells are not people they are a bunch of cells, simple as.
Frank Black ate my hamster |
| PixieSteve |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 16:07:35
you have to question the very idea behind why certain actions are immoral. relating to this topic, i can't think of anything other than the fact that they will make an innocent person feel pain. the fact that embryos are not even human yet and cannot feel, to me, means that killing one would not be immoral. |
| n/a |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 15:37:22
I imagine you're quite witty and intelligent in your bubble too, well protected from those of us who aren't anti abortion and happily dance around stabbing children at the weekend grinning like morons with a bit of tin foil, how righteous you are in your bubble.
Frank Black ate my hamster |
| harringk |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 15:29:29
quote:
Originally posted by Tre
well knowing I'm right makes me feel better, I'm imagining it's your strange little bubble you live in that keeps you going
Frank Black ate my hamster
Yes my non-baby-killing bubble is quite nice this time of year. |
| KimStanleyRobinson |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 14:59:17
quote:
Originally posted by harringk
Whatever makes you feel better, you just keep telling yourself that.
A tried and true method for the right. We may as well give it a shot over here.
This war, it will be just like the War on Drugs. It will be potent and effective and our objectives will be clear. The nation had a nasty drug problem and we declared a war on drugs and spent billions over many years and now you can't buy drugs anymore. It will be just like that.
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| n/a |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 14:50:50
well knowing I'm right makes me feel better, I'm imagining it's your strange little bubble you live in that keeps you going
Frank Black ate my hamster |
| harringk |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 14:46:50
quote:
Originally posted by Tre
[although it's been said before abortion is not the same as killing kids and putting it in those terms is quite provocative.. end point]
Frank Black ate my hamster
Whatever makes you feel better, you just keep telling yourself that. |
| n/a |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 14:28:07
[although it's been said before abortion is not the same as killing kids and putting it in those terms is quite provocative.. end point]
Frank Black ate my hamster |
| TameReg |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 08:59:51
Not a bad point Jefery. It's kind of sneaky, because more people will be opening their doors on Halloween night, unlike other times when people might not open up. And it's hard to say no to kids. I say let Halloween be about kids and candy, and collect for charities some other time. |
| jediroller |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 07:13:59
Doesn't having all these kids knocking on your door at Halloween make you want to support abortion?
Well had you heard the news
About Joan our ex-newspaper girl?
They found her swinging from a tree
And I know
Just a week ago, she was beautiful
But now now now she's rather vile |
| vilainde |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 07:08:45
You lie to the kids? No wonder you vote for Bush then!
Just kidding. Hey, you could give them candies and tell them to donate them to the food bank. Problem is, they won't. :)
Denis
"If you do 7-Up, you can't ever do Coke or Pepsi. You've got to hold out for the best deal possible. It's about me being a smart businesswoman as well as a musician." - Jessica Simpson |
| Jefery With One F |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 06:53:09
Yes, they do carry Unicef boxes around on Halloween. The schools give them out to kids and ask them to collect money while they're collecting candy.
I appreciate your openness to my right to not support Unicef. It's rough, though. They're so brainwashed into unquestioningly believing that Unicef is a great organization that they take it for granted that everyone wants to give them money. Basically, they wear a little box that says Unicef on a string around their neck. You're supposed to watch for it and put a few coins in. If you don't do this automatically, most either just hold the box in their hand and look at you like you're an idiot or jingle the coins in the box. When kids are told by their school that people will want to give them money, they take it for granted that everybody supports that. I don't. But at the same time, I think it would be upsetting to a lot of kids to find out what they've been collecting money for. I don't feel that it's my place to tell them.
I end up lying to the kids and telling them that I don't have any change. I've toyed with the idea of printing up little slips of paper that say, "Although I do not support Unicef's endorsement of abortion, I will donate $1 on your behalf to the local food bank." That way, I can still give them something (and not, therefore, look like I want children to starve), honour their attempt to help others and feel good about not giving money to an organization that I don't support.
I feel that this discussion does have a place in this thread, as it's directly related to using Halloween to impose personal values on children (knowingly or otherwise). I have honestly struggled with how to save face on Halloween while keeping my money away from Unicef. I would appreciate some feedback.
However, I do realize that I'm not going to change your views. You're not going to change mine. And, more importantly on this board, we both love the Pixies and/or Frank Black. If you have suggestions or feedback, I'd appreciate it, but I think that, rather than risk an argument here, I'm going to stop posting on this thread and save my antagonistic posts for the Bruce Springsteen discussion board. |
| vilainde |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 06:08:07
quote:
Originally posted by Jefery With One F
As for Denis, I think it's hypocritical to complain about people informing children about abortion while saying that it's just fine to have them blindly supporting abortion by collecting money for a lie. Kids are told that the Unicef money goes to feed children. In reality, only part of it does. The rest goes to killing children.
So what do I do when kids come on Halloween? Do I just stand there looking like a jerk for not giving them money? Do I give them money even though it goes against my beliefs? Should I be free to tell them what they're really supporting?
I don't get it. Do children knock at your door with Unicef boxes on Halloween? I didn't know that, I thought they were just asking for candies. I wouldn't give them money either, so I guess we agree on this point (even though I strongly disagree with your opinion on abortion and on the UNICEF's mission). If they collect money for an organisation you disagree with, well I think you're perfectly right to tell them so. But I don't think that was the topic of this thread.
Denis
"If you do 7-Up, you can't ever do Coke or Pepsi. You've got to hold out for the best deal possible. It's about me being a smart businesswoman as well as a musician." - Jessica Simpson |
| Jefery With One F |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 05:45:04
The signature should be gone now. I forgot that it was there. And yes, I realize that Jefrey is the proper spelling. It was taken when I registered and, after several other attempts, I just went with this spelling.
Anyhow, I have a policy of not getting too much into politics with Pixies fans. I do, however, think it's necessary to point out that I supported the overthrow of a bloodthirsty fascist dictator. Bush brought this about, and I therefore supported his re-election bid.
As for Denis, I think it's hypocritical to complain about people informing children about abortion while saying that it's just fine to have them blindly supporting abortion by collecting money for a lie. Kids are told that the Unicef money goes to feed children. In reality, only part of it does. The rest goes to killing children.
So what do I do when kids come on Halloween? Do I just stand there looking like a jerk for not giving them money? Do I give them money even though it goes against my beliefs? Should I be free to tell them what they're really supporting? |
| vilainde |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 05:20:48
quote:
Originally posted by Jefery With One F
Why is it a problem for Christians to tell kids the truth about abortions while there's no problem with the schools lying to the kids, telling them that Unicef boxes on Halloween are a great thing, and not telling them the truth about that money they collect going to fund abortion clinics?
Vote Bush in 2004
That has to be the most hysterical post I've ever seen on this forum. I may be missing something, but I fail to understand how working to legalize abortion worldwide is in contradiction with the UNICEF's mission.
Denis
"If you do 7-Up, you can't ever do Coke or Pepsi. You've got to hold out for the best deal possible. It's about me being a smart businesswoman as well as a musician." - Jessica Simpson |
| TarTar |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 05:11:48
Must you keep that signature after the election, just to rub it in that Bush won? And the real Jefrey with one F (spelled differently from yours anyway) would never vote for a bloodthirsty fascist dictator. Course, he probably wouldn't vote at all, he'd be too busy floating around on carpets, off into space and all that.
Inna zany combination of Wayne's Pet Youngin'! |
| Jefery With One F |
Posted - 11/05/2004 : 05:02:59
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/645rcjyc.asp
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/sylva200310310823.asp
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2003/aug/03082001.html
http://www.marysyellowstone.com/klaus/catholicunwatch.htm
It goes on and on. Type "Unicef" and "abortion" into any seach engine (my search got 46,400 hits).
Vote Bush in 2004 |
| darwin |
Posted - 11/04/2004 : 23:49:08
Tell us more Jefery! Give us a link showing UNICEF funds abortion clinics! |
| Jefery With One F |
Posted - 11/04/2004 : 20:50:19
Why is it a problem for Christians to tell kids the truth about abortions while there's no problem with the schools lying to the kids, telling them that Unicef boxes on Halloween are a great thing, and not telling them the truth about that money they collect going to fund abortion clinics?
Vote Bush in 2004 |
| TameReg |
Posted - 11/04/2004 : 16:22:50
There are a lot of good points in this discussion. I am a Catholic, and I think people giving this kind of stuff to kids is absurd. Let them be kids. The kind of Christians who would pass out this kind of stuff are the scary kind. Most Christians aren't this bad. |
